» »

B16 užalil muslimane

B16 užalil muslimane

strani: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 13

Dr Evil ::

Daedo.Morala se z družbo spreminja.Krščanska moralnost pa je ista celih 2000 let.A vidiš razliko med moralnostjo vezano na nauk in avtoriteto in moralnostjo glede na okoliščine?

Moralnost ateistov je moralnost prirejena glede na vzdušje družbe.V nacistični nemčiji je bilo povsem moralno obrcat Žida.

Vajenc ::

Moralnost ateistov je moralnost prirejena glede na vzdušje družbe.V nacistični nemčiji je bilo povsem moralno obrcat Žida.

Moralnost je prirejena vzdušju povsod, tudi v cerkvi (preberi link od škofa Perkota).

OwcA ::

Daedo.Morala se z družbo spreminja.Krščanska moralnost pa je ista celih 2000 let.A vidiš razliko med moralnostjo vezano na nauk in avtoriteto in moralnostjo glede na okoliščine?

Moralnost ateistov je moralnost prirejena glede na vzdušje družbe.V nacistični nemčiji je bilo povsem moralno obrcat Žida

Ko že ravno omenjaš, Adolf Hitler, Nazi Germany: Christian Nationalism
Otroška radovednost - gonilo napredka.

jype ::

Dr Evil> V nacistični nemčiji je bilo povsem moralno obrcat Žida.

Madona si se v nogo ustrelu. Kdo je bil v nacistični Nemčiji "mein Gott" ? Si sploh kdaj prebral kakšno pridigo, ki so jo katoliški duhovniki odpredavali nemškim vojakom? Najbrž ne.

Vsi ste isti, katoliki al pa muslimani, nobene bistvene razlike.

klemen22 ::

Vsi ste isti, katoliki al pa muslimani, nobene bistvene razlike.

Dandanašnji je velika razlika se ti ne zdi jype? Medtem ko trume naivnih muslimanov zažiga in uničuje kar pride pod roke in pozivajo na neko sveto vojno to s strani druge strani ni čutiti kaj?:\
Motiti se je človeško, odpuščati pa božje. Torej ti odpuščam ;)

Daedalus ::

Morala se z družbo spreminja.Krščanska moralnost pa je ista celih 2000 let.

Postulati tipa 10 Božjih zapovedi se ne spreminjajo. Dogme - tud ne. Zapisano je enako. Sam, hudič je v detajlih - v interpretaciji, natančneje.

V praksi se je pa v 2000 letih verjetno kaj spremenilo. Krščansko moralno je bilo zažigati čarovnice na grmadi. Celo zaželjeno v določenih primerih. Zarad nestrinjanja z mainstream dogajanji v religiji so se delale sekte, različni meniški redi. Le zakaj - če je pa krščanska moralnost tako nespremenljiva?

A to veš, da je kraja po Akvinskem lahko opravičljivo dejanje? Ne glede na "nespremenljivo":

7. Ne kradi

Zanimivo, ne?

Pa upam, da ti bo ratalo kmal jasno, zakaj je v razpravah o živi in spreminjajoči se tvorbi, kot je družba, nesmiselno sklicevanje na tisto, kar družbi ne more slediti. Ker absolutno sklicevanje na dobesedno in 2000 let staro interpretacijo krščanske moralnosti ne more uspeti v današnji družbi. Razen mogoče pri nekaj skrajnežih. Kar je pa spet daleč daleč od neke realne večine.
Man is condemned to be free; because once thrown into the world,
he is responsible for everything he does.
[J.P.Sartre]

Dr Evil ::

Moralnost je prirejena vzdušju povsod, tudi v cerkvi (preberi link od škofa Perkota).


Moralnost je definirana z desetimi zapovedmi.

OWCA.tvoj link je čista smet.Med vojaki so celo res bili kristjani:\ ,ampak kakšno vezo ima to z krščanstvom?Si enak kot musliči,ki slišijo kar hočejo.

Poglej kako neumna je tvoja trditev.

Adolf-National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)
The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)

Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)









What were Hitler's religious beliefs?

It is sometimes said that Hitler was a believer in God and specifically that he was a Christian or at least was brought up as a Catholic. After all, weren’t most Austrians, certainly in the late 19th century, nominally Catholics? And what about the frequent references to “God” and “Providence” in his speeches, or to immortality, or the quasi-religious imagery of Nazism?

In contrast to his adult life, relatively little is known about Hitler's childhood and upbringing, and what we do know sheds only dim light on his religious persuasion. His mother was apparently a pious Catholic, according to Hitler's biographers, but Hitler’s own connection with the church during his early youth was not strong. We know he attended a nearby monastery for singing lessons, probably at his father’s behest (Ian Kershaw, Hitler: 1889 – 1936 Hubris, WW Norton, 2000), and that the young Hitler was impressed by the grandiose architecture of great churches. It can reasonably be said that, because of the region in which he was brought up, and the religious faith of at least one of his parents, Hitler was nominally a Catholic. Among his biographers, however, none assert that the boy was even baptized, although it is likely, and there is no evidence of any particularly strong religious element in his upbringing or of feelings of faith like those held by his mother.

So much for Hitler’s early life. What about his attitude to religion and the Church later on? In Mein Kampf (1925) Hitler criticized the Catholic Church in its political form, which he said failed to recognize Germany’s and Europe’s “racial problem”. His Party Charter for the nascent Nazional Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiter Partei demanded in Article 24, in contrast to strong Christian control of German’s spiritual life, “complete freedom of religion” (in so far, of course, as that was not a “danger to Germany”) (William Shirer, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, Arrow, 1991). Indeed, the official “Nazi Party Philosopher”, Alfred Rosenberg, (later to be hanged at Nuremberg), appointed of course with Hitler’s consent, was totally opposed to Christianity. However, Hitler the politician was also aware that to achieve power he would need to win votes from the Catholic Centre Party and could not afford total alienation.

Upon attaining office and enjoying a free hand, what line did Hitler take on religion and the Church? Five days after becoming Chancellor in 1933, Hitler allowed a sterilization law to pass, and had the Catholic Youth League disbanded (Shirer, The Rise). The latter was a measure applied to other youth organizations too, in order to free up young people to join the Hitler Youth. At the same time, Hitler also made an agreement with the Vatican to allow the Catholic Church to regulate its own affairs. (It is probably worth noting here the low value that Hitler placed on written agreements.) Parents were pressured to take their children out of religious schools. When the Church organized voluntary out-of-hours religious classes, the Nazi government responded by banning state-employed teachers from taking part. The Crucifix symbol was even at one point banned from classrooms in one particular jurisdiction, Oldenburg, in 1936, but the measure met with fierce public resistance and was rescinded. Hitler remained conscious of the affection for the Church felt in some quarters of Germany, particularly Bavaria. Later on, though, a wartime metal shortage was used as the excuse for melting church bells (Richard Grunberger, The Twelve Year Reich, Henry Holt, Henry Holt, 1979 and Richard Grunberger, A Social History of the Third Reich, Penguin, 1991).

Hitler’s references to providence and God and the ritualistic pageantry of Nazism were more than likely pagan than Christian. Earthly symbols of German valour and Teutonic strength were to be worshipped - not the forgiving, compassionate representative of an “Eastern Mediterranean servant ethic imposed on credulous ancient Germans by force and subterfuge” (the phrase is Burleigh’s own, in Michael Burleigh, The Third Reich: a New History, Pan, 2001). A Hitler Youth marching song (Grunberger, A Social History) illustrates it:

We follow not Christ, but Horst Wessel,
Away with incense and Holy Water,
The Church can go hang for all we care,
The Swastika brings salvation on Earth.

(Horst Wessel was an early Nazi party Sturmabteilung street-fighter murdered by communists and turned into a martyr by propaganda chief Josef Goebbels.)

The SS were particularly anti-Christian, and officers and men were encouraged to leave the Church, although those that refused to renounce their Christian faith were not visibly punished, perhaps because their otherwise faithful adherence to SS codes of behaviour gave the lie to any claim of true Christian affiliation. The SS also brought in its own neo-pagan rituals for marriage ceremonies and baptisms.

At this time then, the only alignments between Nazism and Catholicism were the Church’s perceived anti-Semitism and anti-communism, and an abhorrence of abortions by healthy pregnant German women (although Hitler did diverge from the Church once again in 1939 when he authorized the medical extermination of mentally and physically handicapped children). As the war progressed and the Wehrmacht gained control of large parts of the Soviet Union, the question of the suppressed Russian Orthodox Christian sects surfaced. Hitler’s response was to leave them to their own devices “so they can beat each others’ brains out with their crucifixes”. He also had contempt for European Protestants: “as submissive as dogs” (Shirer, The Rise). In the debate about his spiritual leanings, Hitler is also sometimes alleged to have flirted with the occult, although in fact it was far more a passion of Himmler’s. For instance, Hitler loathed astrologers. Others close to him, such as Goering, were also dismissive of Himmler’s obsession with the supernatural and Hitler would no doubt have enjoyed Goebbels' joke, during one clampdown on eccentric religious types, that it was “odd that not a single one [of a group of arrested clairvoyants] predicted he would be arrested”. Goebbels would later try to rally Hitler in his bunker at the end of the war with astrological charts predicting victory but Hitler was still unmoved.

At times, Hitler was more pragmatic about religion: “If my mother were alive, she would definitely be a churchgoer, and I wouldn’t want to hinder her. On the contrary, you’ve got to respect the simple faith of the people”. If Hitler was motivated by a supreme being, or convinced that his success was providential, it is hard to see that he was referring to the same God worshipped by Christians. These elements of his orations were dramatic and poetic figures of speech, and the immortality he stood for was of the earthly type, in which heroic legends and monumentalist architecture alone would preserve a great name or event for generations. This analysis stands entirely apart from the actions committed in Hitler’s name which shatter any pretence of Christian leaning. In conclusion, it is reasonable beyond doubt to say that Hitler was not at any stage of his life a Christian.




In my wanderings through the Web, I have sometimes come across statements from Christians saying that Adolf Hitler was an atheist, and more often, statements from atheists saying that Hitler was a devout Christian. He seems to be a guy that nobody wants on their team, which I guess is fair enough, given the part that he played in humanity's bloodiest endeavour. However since some of the "Hitler was a Christian" comments have been occasionally directed at me, I thought it would be wise to investigate the matter for myself and see just what I could come up with.

My conclusion is that Hitler, although he was brought up and confirmed as a Catholic, had abandoned Christianity by the time he was in control of Germany. Importantly though, he was not an atheist either.

Dr Evil ::

From columns in newspapers to a new book titled Hitler’s Pope, the line is that Pius did not do enough to save Jews from the Holocaust and, therefore, that his imminent canonization would be provocative and unjust.

The problem is that the campaign against Pacelli is a defamation. Assuming the other criteria for sainthood are met, not to proceed is to be complicit. The record is clear. With Adolf Hitler not even chancellor until 1933, on March 28, 1928, Pius XI proclaimed: “Moved by Christian charity, the Holy See is obligated to protect the Jewish people against unjust vexations and, just as it reprobates all rancor and conflicts between peoples, it particularly condemns unreservedly hatred against the people once chosen by God; the hatred that goes by the name of anti-Semitism.” Two years later, with Cardinal Pacelli promoted to secretary of state, on Oct. 11, 1930, his official Vatican newspaper quoted his office saying “belonging to the National Socialist Party of Hitler is irreconcilable with Catholic conscience.”

In 1937, Pius XI issued an encyclical condemning racism and, when asked who was responsible, replied: “Thank him [pointing to his secretary of state], he has done everything.”

Pacelli had read Hitler’s Mein Kampf as early as 1925 and told fellow diplomats that Hitler was “obsessed” and a “new manifestation” of the Anti-Christ. As papal nuncio in Germany, he drove policy on the Nazis, criticizing them 40 times before 1929. As secretary, he did sign an agreement with Hitler’s Germany in 1933 but told the British he had to do so or it would mean the “virtual elimination of the Catholic Church” in Germany. Using it in 1934, he was able to protest the Nazis’ closing some 200 Catholic publications, taking over Church schools and forcing Catholics to join the Hitler Youth. He also lodged 60 protests of Jewish cases.

In 1935, he explained to 325,000 Lourdes pilgrims that the “church will never come to terms with Nazis as long as they persist in their racial philosophy.” Throughout 1936 and thereafter, his Vatican Radio broadcast against these racial laws. Following the encyclical, on Jan. 9, 1939, Pacelli told the world’s archbishops that their governments should accept Jews trying to escape Germany, and the next day sent the same order to the American cardinals. By March, he was pope.

His first encyclical defines human nature as “neither gentile nor Jew,” but universal. On Oct. 28, 1939, the New York Times explained it as: “Pope condemns dictators, treaty violators, racism.” Its Jan. 23, 1940, leading item was, “Vatican denounces atrocities in Poland; Germans called even worse than Russians.” On March 11, 1940, Pius confronted German Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop, which the Times headlined three days later as, “Pope is emphatic about just peace: Jewish rights defended.” After the fall of France in 1940, Pius sent a secret letter telling bishops to help those suffering from racism, reminding them racism is “incompatible with the teachings of the Catholic Church.”

In its Dec. 25, 1941, editorial, the New York Times applauded the pope for placing “himself squarely against Hitlerism,” upset that “the voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas.”

In the face of this overwhelming record, how is it possible so many believe the opposite? Except for Nazi and communist propaganda, the sources are one play by Rolf Hochhuth, The Deputy, and John Cornwell’s Hitler’s Pope. Despite the fact that 12 volumes of unrefuted material were produced by four Jesuit historians rebutting the play, the literary set loved it. They preferred the art to the facts and ignored that Mr. Hochhuth was in the Hitler Youth, trained in its virulent anti-clericalism.

Mr. Cornwell said he was convinced of the pope’s innocence before he searched “long-buried Vatican files,” when his eyes were opened. In fact, he did not see any archival documents dated after 1922 — before Hitler had any political significance whatsoever. He admitted in 1989 that he was a “lapsed Catholic for more than 20 years,” and an ex-seminarian who enjoyed testing the faith of his fellow students.

The charge against Pius XII is slander against a good man and nothing more. After the “final solution” leaked out, the New York Times headlined, on Aug. 6, 1942: “Pope is said to plead for Jews listed for removal from France.” It was Israeli consul to Italy Rabbi Pinchas Lapide who researched Yad Vashem in Jerusalem and reported that Pope Pius XII led efforts to save 860,000 Jews, “more than all other churches, religious institutions and rescue organizations put together.” What motivates those who take the Times as holy writ and ignore these facts?

Dr Evil ::

Pa upam, da ti bo ratalo kmal jasno, zakaj je v razpravah o živi in spreminjajoči se tvorbi, kot je družba, nesmiselno sklicevanje na tisto, kar družbi ne more slediti. Ker absolutno sklicevanje na dobesedno in 2000 let staro interpretacijo krščanske moralnosti ne more uspeti v današnji družbi. Razen mogoče pri nekaj skrajnežih. Kar je pa spet daleč daleč od neke realne večine.



Sami izgovori,samo upogibanje pravil.Normalen človek zna razločit med opravičljivimi razlogi.Če maš ti s tem probleme je to povsem tvoja osebna težava.

Hiearhija zapovedi menda ni brezveze.In preberi sveto pismo,ne le "preberi".Poskušaj razumet,da ne boš pri vsaki trditvi izpadel kot vol.

OwcA ::

Malo si zgrešil poanto. Niso bili v nacistični nemčiji ravno samo ateisti tisti, ki so "brcali žide". Spremenljiva morala? Vsekakor, ampak za vse.
Otroška radovednost - gonilo napredka.

OwcA ::

Many Christians believed Nazism to be a Christian movement.[1] Even in the later years of the Third Reich, many Protestant and Catholic clergy persisted in believing that Nazism was in its essence in accordance with Christian precepts.

Wikipedija
Otroška radovednost - gonilo napredka.

Dr Evil ::

Govoriš o protestantih.Tistih,ki evropskih levaki tako radi jenljejo za vzor "napredne vere".

Maš pa prav,da je veliko kristjanov predvsem protestantov se pregrešilo,v nasprotju z krščansko vero.Ti so nato postali ali nacisti ali komunisti.Danes imajo otroke,ki so ateisti.

Daedalus ::

Sami izgovori,samo upogibanje pravil.Normalen človek zna razločit med opravičljivimi razlogi.Če maš ti s tem probleme je to povsem tvoja osebna težava.

Ad hominem.

Pa odgovori mi na to - kdo je normalen?

A je normalnost naravno stanje?

Je normalno tisto, kar je po pravilih religije?

Al je normalnost "zgolj" reševanje problematike vedenja in reševanja konfliktov in travm na (trenutno) družbeno zapovedan in sprejemljiv način?
Man is condemned to be free; because once thrown into the world,
he is responsible for everything he does.
[J.P.Sartre]

Dr Evil ::

Many Christians believed Nazism to be a Christian movement.[1] Even in the later years of the Third Reich, many Protestant and Catholic clergy persisted in believing that Nazism was in its essence in accordance with Christian precepts.



Many atheists did it also:D

OwcA ::

Govoriš o protestantih.Tistih,ki evropskih levaki tako radi jenljejo za vzor "napredne vere".

Daj vsaj preberi celo vrstico, saj ni toliko, no:
many Protestant and Catholic clergy


Poleg tega, a protestanti niso kristjani? Dokler govorimo o temeljni etiki, bi si upal trditi, da je enaka.
Otroška radovednost - gonilo napredka.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: OwcA ()

Dr Evil ::

Daedo,tvoje ad hominem lahko rodi le ad hominem.Ne pričakuj konstruktivnega odgovora na pavšalna vprašanja,

jype ::

Dr Evil> Sami izgovori,samo upogibanje pravil.Normalen človek zna razločit med opravičljivimi razlogi.Če maš ti s tem probleme je to povsem tvoja osebna težava.

Med 10 zapovedmi najdeš tudi tole:

But the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.

Dr Evil, grešnik moj, tvoja morala je osnovana kvečjemu na nespoštovanju desetih zapovedi.

Dr Evil ::

Nehajte že s takimi "argumenti",da so mnogi kristjani verjeli v nacizem.To nič ne dokaže.Veliko ateistov je to prav tako.Nehajte z kazanjem prsta na druge,ker z lahkoto lahko na sebe,na ateiste.Bitni argumenti so le tisti,ki so usmerjeni direktno na vero oziroma doktrino.

OwcA ::

Hitler himself has declared repeatedly that he believes in the religious and moral values of a 'positive Christianity,'
...
The 'Christian religion' has, therefore, in the opinion of the Party, a very definite and recognized place in the ideology of National Socialism.

Vir
Otroška radovednost - gonilo napredka.

Daedalus ::

Nehajte že s takimi "argumenti",da so mnogi kristjani verjeli v nacizem.

Resnica boli?

Pa še enkrat - kaj je normalno?
Man is condemned to be free; because once thrown into the world,
he is responsible for everything he does.
[J.P.Sartre]

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: Daedalus ()

OwcA ::

Nehajte že s takimi "argumenti",da so mnogi kristjani verjeli v nacizem.To nič ne dokaže.Veliko ateistov je to prav tako.Nehajte z kazanjem prsta na druge,ker z lahkoto lahko na sebe,na ateiste.Bitni argumenti so le tisti,ki so usmerjeni direktno na vero oziroma doktrino.

Vse to bi držalo, če ne bi ti ves čas deloval, kot da je krščanstvo apriorno dobro, moralno. Očitno ni, ne dovolj. Tako kot lahko najdeš kristjane, ki delujejo res moralno, lahko najdeš tudi ateiste ali vernike kakšne druge religije. Kot smo v tej temi ugotovili, pa ni pripadnost nobeni religiji sama po sebi dovolj. Niti budizem, niti krščanstvo, niti ateizem. Žal.
Otroška radovednost - gonilo napredka.

Dr Evil ::

OWCA,kot prvo je govora o protestantih.Kot drugo,stisni na naslov.Kam te bo pripeljalo?Na diskusijo o krščanstvu v hitlerjevem času.In kaj je ta antikristjan,katerega blog si linkal,povzel?Ja tisto kar od njega pričakuješ.:\

Prosim da se vnaprej vzdržiš raznih anarholevičrskih virov,hvala:D.

OwcA ::

OWCA,kot prvo je govora o protestantih.

Ponavljam svoj prejšni odgovor, očitno si ga spregledal:
Poslano: 20.09.2006 11:55:49 | popravi | zmolzi | polepšaj
Pošlji zasebno sporočilo
Govoriš o protestantih.Tistih,ki evropskih levaki tako radi jenljejo za vzor "napredne vere".

Daj vsaj preberi celo vrstico, saj ni toliko, no:
many Protestant and Catholic clergy

Poleg tega, a protestanti niso kristjani? Dokler govorimo o temeljni etiki, bi si upal trditi, da je enaka.

Otroška radovednost - gonilo napredka.


---

Prosim da se vnaprej vzdržiš raznih anarholevičrskih virov,hvala

Bom čim boš ti začel svojim citatom dodajati vire.
Otroška radovednost - gonilo napredka.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: OwcA ()

Dr Evil ::

Resnica boli?



Mene ne.Ateista kot edino naravno zdravo strujo,zagovornika pa siguno.Za prepričanega nacista ni bilo prostora za krščanstvo.Mogoče le v tej meri,da je šel za veliko noč in božič k maši.:D

No počasi le spoznavate,da krščanstvo nima veze z nacizmom.Le kako ib,če pa je Božji Sin žid?

Če je nekdo drugače trdil je pa druga stvar.Je podobno trditvi,da je ateizem nevtalen,kak bull.

OwcA ::

In kaj je ta antikristjan,katerega blog si linkal,povzel?Ja tisto kar od njega pričakuješ.

Ta "antikristjan" je Director of Mainstream Oklahoma Baptists. Nazadnje ko sem pogledal, so bili kristjani. Ja, še vedno so. :\
Otroška radovednost - gonilo napredka.

Dr Evil ::

The personal blog of Dr. Bruce Prescott, Executive Director of Mainstream Oklahoma Baptists, President of the Oklahoma Chapter of Americans United for Separation of Church and State.:D

Smrdi po ateistu.

Dr Evil ::

No če že iščemo krivca za nacistične zločine.

Almost all non-Catholic Western nations adopted some eugenics legislation. In July 1933 Germany passed a law allowing for the involuntary sterilization of "hereditary and incurable drunkards, sexual criminals, lunatics, and those suffering from an incurable disease which would be passed on to their offspring."[20] Canada carried out thousands of forced sterilizations, and these lasted into the 1970s. Many First Nations (native Canadians) were unfairly targeted, as well as immigrants from Eastern Europe, as the program inevitably identified racial and ethnic minorities as being genetically inferior.

wiki

mercutio ::

jype:
"Ti bom jaz. Po lastnem. Veš, za razliko od nekaterih drugih ljudi, večina ateistov sprejema odgovornost za vsa svoja dejanja. Razume, da je obnašanje človeka v družbi akcija, ki vedno sproži reakcijo. Naučil se je, da je v veliki večini primerov reakcija toliko prijetnejša, kolikor prijetna je akcija. Ateist ne potrebuje pekla, da ni s ketne strgani perverzni kriminalec. Ne potrebuje nebes, da pomaga stari mamki čez cesto. Vse, kar mu daje smisel, so njegova znanja, sposobnosti in možnost, da se odloča tako, da s tem izpolni svoje cilje, ki so lahko egoistični ali pa altruistični - tudi to je njegova izbira."

A si se kdaj vprašal, zakaj današnji "ateist" ni iz ketne strgan kriminalec in kako je prišel do tega, da ve kaj je in kaj ni moralno?

jype ::

mercutio> A si se kdaj vprašal, zakaj današnji "ateist" ni iz ketne strgan kriminalec in kako je prišel do tega, da ve kaj je in kaj ni moralno?

Ja. Namesto papeža je poslušal Newtona. Namesto Kirkegaarda je bral Kanta.

Dr Evil> Almost all non-Catholic Western nations adopted some eugenics legislation.

Tole je pa narobe. Nemčija _je_ catholic western nation. Tudi Španija je, pa je to bil zakon do poznih sedemdesetih let.

Dr Evil ::

jype.Nemčija je večinsko protestantska,le na jugu je katoliška:\

Seveda si se pa zapičil v najmanj važno podrobnost.Te,da so evgeniki darvinisti in kot taki,ateisti,to pa te očitno ne zanima.

jype ::

Dr Evil> Te,da so evgeniki darvinisti in kot taki,ateisti,to pa te očitno ne zanima

Katoliki so invalidi, ampak tebe to ne zanima.

nevone ::

>A si se kdaj vprašal, zakaj današnji "ateist" ni iz ketne strgan kriminalec in kako je prišel do tega, da ve kaj je in kaj ni moralno?

Če potrebujemo vero zato, da se moralno ne spustimo iz ketne, potem jo jaz podpiram. Sicer ma tisto ketno vseeno rahlo prekratko, ampak naj bo. Saj lahko vsak sam si jo malo podaljša.

Če pa govorimo o veri in Bogu, kot pojasnilu za delovanje našega vesolja, potem jo kategorično zavračam. In ateist dela predvsem to. In če temu rečete ateistična vera, me tudi navsezadnje ne moti, kot sem že enkrat povedala. Se pač pojem vere uporablja za vse vrste prepričanj. Čeprav mislim, da gre pri tem za izenačevanje pojmov verovati in verjeti, med katerima pa jaz vidim rahlo razliko.

o+ nevone
Rather we will eat the Space or Space will eat us.

mercutio ::

jype:
"Ja. Namesto papeža je poslušal Newtona. Namesto Kirkegaarda je bral Kanta."

Si šel premalo nazaj.

Vajenc ::

da so evgeniki darvinisti in kot taki,ateisti

Dr.Evil, a ti resnično ne verjameš vsaj malo evoluciji? Ker če ji, si po tvoje ateist.
btw; RKC delno priznava evolucijo.
edit:typo

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: Vajenc ()

Dr Evil ::

Ateisti se sami sklicujejo na evolucijo.Pojem darvinizem je sinonim za ateizem.

jype ::

mercutio> Si šel premalo nazaj.

Koliko nazaj je pa treba jit? Toliko, da izgubimo kognitivno sposobnost?

Zavesti primitivnih ljudstev, ki si niso znala pojasniti reči, so se pač zatekle k religiji. V nekem času je moralo priti do točke, ko smo o sami sebi in o svetu, ki nas obdaja, vedeli dovolj, da smo razumeli, da je religija pravljica za lahko noč za tiste, ki jih je sicer ponoči strah. Ostali, mentalno zreli ljudje, pa so se lotili novega sveta, ki ni več srednjeveško mračen.

OwcA ::

@Dr Evil: Če prav razumem, se tvoj svet deli na RK, ateiste in pogane?
Otroška radovednost - gonilo napredka.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: OwcA ()

jype ::

Dr Evil> Ateisti se sami sklicujejo na evolucijo.Pojem darvinizem je sinonim za ateizem.

To maš pa en čuden slovar.

Atheism @ Wikipedia

Darwinism @ Wikipedia

Niti na enem mestu ne omenjata eden drugega.

Dr Evil ::

Na vernike drugih ver si pozabil.A se ne deli tako tudi v resnici,seveda brez navlake,ki se skriva pod drugimi imeni je pa v bistvu eno od naštetih kategorij?

Dr Evil ::

Zdaj bo jype rezal vejo na kateri si je tako udobno naredil:D

Dr Evil ::

Is Darwinism atheism? In his influential book What Is Darwinism?, Princeton theologian Charles Hodge answers his title question: "It is atheism."

jype ::

Saj lahko v eno sporočilo napišeš več kot eno vrstico. Zares! Srčno upam, da ti vera tega ne prepoveduje.

Sam se imam za agnostika, ko prideš čisto do dna. Ne vidim razloga, zakaj bi boga mešali v sliko sveta, ker je brez njega slika bistveno elegantnejša (in moja estetika se z Occamovo britvico strinja). Na podlagi vsega tega torej moram biti ateist vsaj kar se tiče vpliva božanstev na naše življenje. Seveda sem ateist tudi kar se tiče morale: ne sramujem se spolnosti in telesa, a ker mi gre vsiljivost na jetra tudi sam poskrbim, da drugim ne vsiljujem samega sebe. Ne morim in ne kradem sosedu, ker si ne želim, da bi on meni kradel ali me moril.

Dr Evil> Is Darwinism atheism? In his influential book What Is Darwinism?, Princeton theologian Charles Hodge answers his title question: "It is atheism."

No, če je teolog, potem pa že. Normalni ljudje ne potrebujejo imeti tako zgrešene predstave o ateizmu in darvinizmu.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: jype ()

Dr Evil ::

Za agnostika se smatraš?Nisi pred par posti bil šel prepričan ateist:D

mercutio ::

jype:
"Zavesti primitivnih ljudstev, ki si niso znala pojasniti reči, so se pač zatekle k religiji. V nekem času je moralo priti do točke, ko smo o sami sebi in o svetu, ki nas obdaja, vedeli dovolj, da smo razumeli, da je religija pravljica za lahko noč za tiste, ki jih je sicer ponoči strah. Ostali, mentalno zreli ljudje, pa so se lotili novega sveta, ki ni več srednjeveško mračen."

Ko pogledam današnji svet, predvsem nove generacije, ki nas bodo nasledile, se sprašujem o teh mentalno zrelih ljudeh in kam je šla morala oziroma kje bo v prihodnosti meja med tem, kaj je moralno in kaj ne. Vse večji individualizem, nezmožnost sprejemanja odgovornosti in brezsmiselnost bivanja so eni temeljnih problemov današnje družbe za moje pojme. Ne vem in tudi ne trdim, da je kakršnakoli vera pravi odgovor za prihodnost. A vseeno se mi mentalno zreli ljudje tvojega sveta zdijo meni kot ena pravljica za lahko noč.

Edit: sem dodal dramatično noto :D

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: mercutio ()

Dr Evil ::

Če je ateizem resničen in smo le rezultat naključij,potem je življenje nesmiselno.Logična izpeljava iz tega je,da živi dokler ti gre dobro in crkni pri prvem problemu.

A ni čudno,da daleč največ ljudi obupa (samomor) ravno iz nevernih družin?

jype ::

mercutio, glede prihodnosti si deliva skrb. Seveda boš zlahka ugotovil, da je mladina med komunistično drhaljo bila mnogo bolj zbrana in odgovorna, kot je danes katoliška mladina, ki na veliko greši in gre potem pač k spovedi. Vsak lahko reče, da to že niso pravi verniki, a tudi za komuniste ki so ga srali lahko vsak reče, da to že niso pravi komunisti.

Upam si trditi, da katoliško moralo upoštevam precej bolj kot tipičen katolik, tudi če se na nekatere dele povsem požvižgam, ker so z moje perspektive absurdni.

Razen tiste butaste delovne sobote in tega da imam raje svojega psa, kot gospoda ki je v nebesih, mislim da nisem prekršil še nobene od tistih zapovedi. Tudi kakšnih drugih zapovedi sem se držal, ki so nemara pomembnejše, recimo tista da ni pametno jit z glavo skozi zid, čeprav se pri sodelovanju v tej temi sprašujem, kako močna je lepenka, skozi katero zdaj rinem z glavo in ali ni to nemara kar knauf stena.

Dr Evil ::

Butasta delovna sobota?:D :D :D

jype ::

Dr Evil> A ni čudno,da daleč največ ljudi obupa (samomor) ravno iz nevernih družin?

Vir?

Ko sem malo takole surfal, sem naletel na tvojo ***NESPREMENLJIVO*** katoliško moralo (Religious views of suicide): @ Wikipedia

In point 2281 of the Catechism it is stated:

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

The 1997 Catechism of the Catholic Church indicates that suicide may not always be fully conscious – and thus not one-hundred-percent morally culpable: "Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide."

Skratka, od 1997 naprej samomor ni več nujno smrtni greh. How's that for a change?

Dr Evil> Butasta delovna sobota?

Gospodov dan je sobota. To bi pa kot katolik že lahko vedel. No, jaz ob sobotah delam. Ne sicer tistega, kar katoliki, ampak delam vseeno.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: jype ()

Dr Evil ::

LOL jype.Pojma nimaš.Kot prvo.Samomor ni nujno smrtni greh zato,ker katehiem upošteva psihično stanje človeka.Recimo,da je ekstremno depresiven.Če je naredil zato,potem ni smrtni greh.Če je storil izven tega stanja,te je.

Kot drugo.Sobota je židovski gospodov dan:D

Nedelja je katoliški gospodov dan,zato ker je Jezus v Nedeljo od mrtvih vstal.

Vidiš,spet si se nekaj naučil.

Matthai ::

Dr Evil: glede samomorov sicer nimam kakšnih pametnih statistik, a glede občutka sreče raziskave kažejo da so najbolj srečni v ne-rimokatoliških državah, konkretno v liberalnih skadinavskih državah.

Če mi jutri pošlješ ZS in me spomniš, ti bom poiskal en lep graf, ki to dokazuje.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain...
Time to die.
strani: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 13


Vredno ogleda ...

TemaSporočilaOglediZadnje sporočilo
TemaSporočilaOglediZadnje sporočilo
»

Nepričakovani konvertiti

Oddelek: Problemi človeštva
422556 (1321) whatever
»

Korenine človekovih pravic

Oddelek: Problemi človeštva
101318 (1048) Barakuda1

Prerok in karikakture (nadaljevanje) (strani: 1 2 3 )

Oddelek: Problemi človeštva
1496330 (3746) BigWhale
»

Šaron na smrtni postelji? (strani: 1 2 )

Oddelek: Problemi človeštva
934559 (3031) Dr Evil
»

Ubijane v verskih knjigah...

Oddelek: Problemi človeštva
191439 (1101) Barakuda1

Več podobnih tem