Undercover Mosque: The Return

Poglejte si dokumentarni film britanske televizije Channel 4, ki je bil prvič predvajan 1. septembra 2008. Šokantno, kaj učijo v mošejah/džamijah, ki naj bi bile tolerantne. A mislite, da se bodo podobni nauki slišali tudi v IKC Ljubljana ( http://www.ikc.si/ )?


Undercover Mosque: The Return

A year-and-a-half after the critically-acclaimed film Undercover Mosque was first screened, Dispatches goes undercover again to see whether extremist beliefs continue to be promoted in certain key British Muslim institutions. The film also investigates the role of the Saudi Arabian religious establishment in spreading a hard-line, fundamentalist Islamic ideology in the UK - the very ideology the Government claims to be tackling.

A female reporter attends prayer meetings at an important British mosque which claims to be dedicated to moderation and dialogue with other faiths. She secretly films shocking sermons given to the women-only congregation in which female preachers recite extremist and intolerant beliefs. As hundreds of women and some children come to pray, a preacher calls for adulterers, homosexuals, women who act like men and Muslim converts to other faiths to be killed, saying: "Kill him, kill him. You have to kill him, you understand. This is Islam."

Worshippers are repeatedly told they must lead separate lives from non-believers and not tolerate other religions. Christian teachings are described as "vile and disgusting, an abomination." And at private, invite-only prayer meetings linked to the mosque, the reporter films the leading preacher from the women's prayer circle issuing strict dictats on women's personal freedoms - decreeing they must not travel far without a male member of the family to escort them, and instructing them not to integrate with British society or work in a non-Islamic environment.

In the same mosque, the reporter visits the bookshop and discovers books and DVDs still on sale, promoting extremist, anti-Semitic, misogynistic and intolerant messages. Unbelievers ('kuffaars') are described in one DVD as: "Evil, wicked, mischievous people - you can see the evil in their face". Whilst Jews, "have abominated, filthy, disgusting gross belief - their time will come like every other evil person's time will come." Moderate Muslims and Islamic academics tell Dispatches they reject and condemn these teachings. Dispatches traces the links between the teachings and materials at the mosque and the Saudi Arabian religious establishment, and examines the extent to which Saudi Arabia exports such teachings around the world through the funding of literature, schools, mosques and other organisations.

Dispatches also interviews a former teacher at a Saudi-run faith school who describes how the official Saudi educational curriculum was taught in the school. He shows Dispatches official Saudi textbooks from the school which featured anti-Semitic and anti-Christian teachings.

As part of the investigation, the undercover reporter also films inside a key Saudi-funded Muslim organisation which claims to promote tolerance and integration yet distributes literature which promotes intolerance for non-Muslims, an extreme version of Sharia law and teachings which support discrimination against women.

The Government claims Saudi Arabia is its partner in tackling extremism, but a former Foreign Office Minister tells Dispatches he believes the Government should take a stronger line. The film also features interviews with Islamic academics who condemn these messages of intolerance and segregation and warn of the impact this version of Islam is having on British society. One imam at a leading university accuses the Saudi religious establishment of the: "distortion of Islam itself, the abuse and misuse of this great faith of mine and not only mine but of my children as well."
(vir http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/d... )



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Absolutno nedopustno, zločinsko celo.

Če je reportaža pristna, je potrebno muftija kriminalno preganjat ali izgnat iz države.
Javno je treba obsodit takšen fundamenatlizem in preprečit podobne javne izpade.

Ampak vse z istočasnim poudarjanjem, da civiliziran svet ne tolerira sovražen verski govor in da se tukaj bori proti nasilnim interpretacijam in izvedbam.

Ampak da to ni bitka proti Islamu, ki je lahko in mora biti sodobna, miroljubna religija.

Saladin.: Saj tu zajec tiči v grmu: Islam ni miroljubna vera, je zelo nasilna in barbarska, zato bi bilo treba prenoviti Islam, ne pa da se moramo mi prenavljat njim.

Pa sicer, kaj delajo islamski priseljenci v zahodu? Delajo slaboplačana dela, vzgojijo nevzgojene mulce, ki imajo krizo identitete - mačehovska in matična kultura. In potem bomo čez 50 let brali časopise, kako je prišlo do islamske revolucije v Londonu...

Ljudje se morajo asimlirat in spoštovati državo gostiteljico, svojo vero pa lhako prakticirajo za zaprtimi vrati, in to isto velja tudi za ostale verske skupnosti.

Starodavni,
saj si videl na koncu klipa 1/5, kako muslimani slikajo islam nemuslimanom: kot tolerantno religijo, celo oddelek za medverski dialog imajo v Londonskem islamskem kulturnem centru. Ko pa se pogovarjajo med seboj, pa pravijo kaka zloba so kristjani oz. kafirji. In da se ne smeš družiti z njimi in držati tistega, kar si jim obljubil.

Poglejte dokumentarce, potem pa primerjajte trditve/ideologije radikalnih muslimanov, ter tistega, kar je v svoji knjigi napisal Alija Izetbegović.

Islamska Deklaracija (1983), link na http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/politi... z http://bs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alija_Izet...

"... Islamic order may be implemented only in countries where Muslims represent the majority of the population. Without this majority, the Islamic order is reduced to authority only (because the other element is lacking - the Islamic society), and may turn into violence. ..."
(v dokumentarcu,1/5 - homoseksualce mečemo s pečin samo v Islamskih deželah, je treba počakati, da si povečamo število)

"... the Islamic movement should and must start taking over the power as soon as it is morally and numerically strong enough to not only overthrow the existing non-Islamic, but also to build up a new Islamic authority. ..."
(Izetbegović pravi: najprej povečamo svoje število, potem prevzamemo oblast in uvedemo islamsko državo)

"... The first and foremost of such conclusions is surely the one on the incompatibility of Islam and non-Islamic systems. There can be no peace or coexistence between the "Islamic faith" and non- Islamic societies and political institutions. ... Islam clearly excludes the right and possibility of activity of any strange ideology on its own turf. Therefore, there is no question of any laicistic principles, and the state should be an expression and should support the moral concepts of the religion. ..."

>Saladin: "Vprašaj soseda muslimana, če ima kake (samo)morilske in x-fobične težnje."
Moj sosed musliman je po vsej verjetnosti Bosanec, in njegov donedavni šef je napisal zgornje izjave...

Aja, preberite si še MOTO z naslovnice Izetbegovićeve knjige.
Namig, kaj pomeni "struggle": In Arabic, Jihad means "strive" or "struggle" (vir: Jihad @ Wikipedia ). Jihad (Arabic: جهاد‎ IPA: [ʤɪhæːd]), an Islamic term, is a religious duty of Muslims.

Srbi umaknili sporni roman o Mohamedu

Svoboda tiska?

Koga bi zaskrbelo. če bi se to zgodilo pri nas?

Je ze bil namrec prepovedan kaksen roman pri nas. Recimo tisti v katerem naj bi se prepoznal nek pajac od policaja in zato zahteval in se bolj neverjetno celo dosegel prepoved, pa se ni pokazalo ravno dosti skrbi glede tega.

Pravzaprav je to narobe in ravno tako zaskrbljujoče. Tako kot vtikanje politike v medije.

In ti pravis tu isto o njih, isto sranje drugo pakovanje.

Na večih mestih so bila citirana islamska gesla, kako so neverniki manjvredni, kristjani prašiči, itd.

Nihče ni primerjal muslimanov z živalmi, niti jih ne namerava. Govora je samo o vprašanju njihove integracije in argumentira se, da jim zahod preveč popušča.

Popušča se tudi RKC, vendar ta manj neposredno ogroža sekularnost države.

Pravzaprav je to narobe in ravno tako zaskrbljujoče. Tako kot vtikanje politike v medije.

Seveda je narobe, saj to pravim. Problem je v tem, da se na svobodo govora ljudje vecinoma sklicujejo, kadar se jim zdi, da se blokira nekaj njim sorodnega, drugace se jim pa fucka, ali so celo veseli kadar se blokira svoboda govora tistih s katerimi se ne strinjajo (no vcasih blokiranje tehle celo zahtevajo). btw a svoboda govora med ljudmi za stirimi stenami ne velja?

Na večih mestih so bila citirana islamska gesla, kako so neverniki manjvredni, kristjani prašiči, itd.

Nihče ni primerjal muslimanov z živalmi, niti jih ne namerava. Govora je samo o vprašanju njihove integracije in argumentira se, da jim zahod preveč popušča.

Popušča se tudi RKC, vendar ta manj neposredno ogroža sekularnost države.

Bistri je napisal, da pravijo kako, da so zlobni in hkrati je isto on pravil o njih, to sem citiral in na to sem se odzval. Smo pa slisali ze vse mogoce z obeh strani, tako da se mi zdi rahlo nesmiselno tekmovat katera skupina je uspela it dlje v svojem brezumju.

Zahod ima svoje zakone in se jih mora drzat, torej nima komu prevec popuscat, ker zakoni so in morajo biti za vse enaki. Kdo bolj ogroza sekularnost drzave pa ni tako preprosto kot ti predstavljas. V nasi ljubi domovini je vsaj za zdaj za sekularnost prav gotovo veliko vecja groznja RKC, isto v Italiji, v ZDA so recimo tudi kristjani veliko vecja groznja sekularnosti, kako je v drugih zahodnih drzavah, pa ne bom trdil, ker ne vem dovolj.

Razlika je v tem, da muslimani slikajo Zahodnemu občinstvu v javnosti tolerantno stran islama, takoj ko kafirji odidejo, pa jih začnejo zmerjati z gnusom.

Saj jaz jih nic ne branim, jih nimam ne razloga, ne namena, samo vidim to isto pocetje, ki se ocita njim, tudi pri clanih drugih verstev, ki niso niti priblizno imuna na hinavscino.

Se je mogoče že kdo vprašal, zakaj ne-muslimani ne smejo v džamijo ali v Meko? Ne samo na romanje, celo vstop v samo mesto (Meko) jim ni dovoljen. Alah si ga vedi kaka netoleranca jim leti iz ust. Že tu se vidi kako mnenje imajo o tebi, kafirju.

To je smesen, paranoiden argument. Si se ze kdaj vprasal zakaj imajo vsa verstva katerokoli (za druga verstva) popolnoma nesmiselno prepoved ali zapoved? A ce bi spuscali ljudi v dzamije, potem jim pa ne bi mogla na nekem drugem koncu netoleranca vzletat iz ust?

Bistri je napisal, da pravijo kako, da so zlobni in hkrati je isto on pravil o njih, to sem citiral in na to sem se odzval. Smo pa slisali ze vse mogoce z obeh strani, tako da se mi zdi rahlo nesmiselno tekmovat katera skupina je uspela it dlje v svojem brezumju.

Precej črno-bel, tale tvoj svet. Zame so muslimani ljudje, tako kot jaz. Problem je samo, da nekateri ne ločijo med vero, državo in kulturo. In se izogibajo diskusiji o tem. Pa vendar je za družbeno funkcionalnost to ločevanje potrebno.

hokuto:

A imajo kaksne posebne nezmotljive identifikatorje, da se loci ta prave od nepravih, bouncerje na vratih (sprasujem, ker ne vem)? Meni osebno se ta ocitana jim zaprtost zdi nesmiselna, lahko tudi ponesrecena, nisem pa toliko paranoicen, da bi v tem videl resno groznjo, ker se ob nje odpravi, pogoji za zarotnistvo, na katerega opozarjate (in jaz ne trdim, da ga ni), ne bi prav nic bistveno poslabsali.

Boljše kot to: če hočeš priti v džamijo, rečeš, da si musliman, izpoveš šehado (“La illaha ill Allah, Muhammadur Rasul Allah”, Shahada @ Wikipedia ).

Non-Muslims wishing to convert to Islam do so by a public recitation of the creed (shahada).

Čim začneš kaj rovariti proti islamu, ga kritizirati, postaneš odpadnik od islama - apostat. Kazen za apostazijo pa je smrt.

The four major Sunni and the one major Shia Madh'hab (schools of Islamic jurisprudence) agree that a sane adult male apostate must be executed.
Apostasy in Islam @ Wikipedia

Ven greš lahko samo z nogami naprej. Nekako me to spominja na "veliko italijansko religijo" : na območju katerega nadzoruje, zahteva od nepripadnikov te "velike miroljubne religije" plačilo varščine (protection money, glej Jizyah, Jizya @ Wikipedia ).
In ja, če si rojen v to "religijo miru" in hočeš izkoristiti svojo svobodo vesti, te največkrat pospravijo kar tvoji najbližji sorodniki (oče, brat...).

Jype, vse lepo in prav. Pri nas muslimani še nimajo tako močnih vrst. Ampak glede na demografske projekcije, Saudijski denar za vehabije...

jype>pa se pri nas tega pač ne sme. In tudi ko bo pri nas vse polno džamij, se ne bo smelo nič bolj.
Muslim apostates threatened over Christianity

When Sofia Allam left the Muslim faith for Christianity, the response from her family was one of persecution and threats. Alasdair Palmer explores the dangers facing Islam's apostates

Sofia Allam simply could not believe it. Her kind, loving father was sitting in front of her threatening to kill her. He said she had brought shame and humiliation on him, that she was now "worse than the muck on their shoes" and she deserved to die.

And what had brought on his transformation? He had discovered that she had left the Muslim faith in which he had raised her and become a Christian.

"He said he couldn't have me in the house now that I was a Kaffir [an insulting term for a non-Muslim]," Sofia - not her real name - remembers.

In pazi, to ti je v Angliji! Sme ali ne sme, če ti fotr zagrozi, da te potolče, boš rajši jezik držal za zobmi in malo nategnil načela.

Primer iz Malezije:
Malaysian court rejects woman's bid to leave Islam

"The court rejected the appeal on technical grounds, not on merit. We believe they are afraid to hear the case" because of the sensitivity of the issue, Bon said.

To ti je pravna država, sodniki se bojijo!!!

jype>Ej, mene bi marsikdo z veseljem potolkel, ker pač rovarim proti vsem religijam
Ja, daj poizkusi biti tako javen kot Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Robert Spencer, Geert Wilders ali danski karikaturisti. Ali pa Theo van Gogh