Novice » Znanost in tehnologija » Belgijski protestniki uničili eksperiment z gensko modificiranim krompirjem
kitaj ::
pss-m ::
Po drugi strani pa ni Monsato izumil lobiranja in korupcije, oni samo igrajo igro po pravilih, ki trenutno veljajo. "Don't hate the player, hate the game" recejo cez luzo.
hja, glede na to da si z denarjem lahko kupiš svoja pravila...
pss-m> a res ljudje to najraje kupujejo? ali kupijo ker je kriza in si BIO ne morejo privoščit?
A ti bi rajši, da so lačni, ker je najcenejša hrana zanje predraga?
denarja je kot ga je, če ima korporacija večji proračun kot naša država pomeni da imajo ljudje manj, torej si lahko manj privoščijo.
in te razlike so vedno večje, zato je vedno lažje ljudem prodajat svinjarijo "saj imajo izbiro" oz. kot ti praviš "a bi blo bolje če svinjarije ne bi bilo?"
in ker je vse po "pravilih igre" se nimamo kaj bunit a ne?
http://www.siol.net/slovenija/rubrikon/...
antonija ::
hja, glede na to da si z denarjem lahko kupiš svoja pravila...Jah trenutno so pravila igre taka da si z denarjem lahko kupis nova pravila igre. Jamrat da mi to ni vsec nic ne pomaga, bo treba kaj bolj konkretnega narest.
Statistically 3 out of 4 involved usually enjoy gang-bang experience.
mihec87 ::
hja, glede na to da si z denarjem lahko kupiš svoja pravila...Jah trenutno so pravila igre taka da si z denarjem lahko kupis nova pravila igre. Jamrat da mi to ni vsec nic ne pomaga, bo treba kaj bolj konkretnega narest.
Saj so, sabotirali so eksperiment in jasno pokazali da so proti..
jype ::
pss-m> denarja je kot ga je
To seveda ni res. Denarja je vedno več - v obtoku in tudi sicer.
To seveda ni res. Denarja je vedno več - v obtoku in tudi sicer.
pss-m ::
pss-m> denarja je kot ga je
To seveda ni res. Denarja je vedno več - v obtoku in tudi sicer.
drži, a v tem trenutku ga je kot ga je. in kot sem rekel s časom se razlika med tistimi, ki imajo veliko in tistimi, ki imajo malo povečuje. zato argument, da ga je vedno več ne spremeni zadeve.
hamax ::
da ga je vedno več ne spremeni zadeve.
Seveda spremeni. Potrebno se je vprasati zakaj ga je vedno vec.
Z enim denarjem lahko kupim 3 krompirje pri kmetu. Potem pa pride monsanto, ki omogoci kmetu, da mi za en denar lahko proda 5 krompirjev. To v praksi pomeni, da je v obtoku 'vec' denarja.
mihec87 ::
da ga je vedno več ne spremeni zadeve.
Seveda spremeni. Potrebno se je vprasati zakaj ga je vedno vec.
Z enim denarjem lahko kupim 3 krompirje pri kmetu. Potem pa pride monsanto, ki omogoci kmetu, da mi za en denar lahko proda 5 krompirjev. To v praksi pomeni, da je v obtoku 'vec' denarja.
Si prepričan da bo tako?
Če monsanto zariba ceno semenskega krompirja ga bo kmet kupil manj in še vedno boš dobil 3 krompirje..
hamax ::
Ce Monsantova cena semenskega krompirja na kilogram pridelka ne bo nizja, ga kmet enostavno ne bo kupil.
mihec87 ::
Ce Monsantova cena semenskega krompirja na kilogram pridelka ne bo nizja, ga kmet enostavno ne bo kupil.
Sedaj ko se še da izbirati se to seveda da..
gruntfürmich ::
a ne veš jype? monsanto je podaljšek illuminatov, in če monsantovo seme spustimo na prodajne police, to simbolično in tudi dejansko pomeni da bo le-ta prerasel vse drugo in bo na koncu ostal samo monsanto ter z njim svetovni red illuminatov, ki nam bodo vladali. mi bomo samo marionetke...
dohhhhhhhhhhhhh
dohhhhhhhhhhhhh
"Namreč, da gre ta družba počasi v norost in da je vse, kar mi gledamo,
visoko organizirana bebavost, do podrobnosti izdelana idiotija."
Psiholog HUBERT POŽARNIK, v Oni, o smiselnosti moderne družbe...
visoko organizirana bebavost, do podrobnosti izdelana idiotija."
Psiholog HUBERT POŽARNIK, v Oni, o smiselnosti moderne družbe...
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- spremenil: gruntfürmich ()
mihec87 ::
mihec87> Sedaj ko se še da izbirati se to seveda da..
Čemu naj bi se pa to nehalo?
Verjetno bol teško,saj pod žarometom monopola ni lih prijetno..
uuu grunf celo illuminate ti je uspelo tukaj sem vključit niso te samo v knjigah ter zgodbicah za lahko noč?
Ne rečem da je zadeva neki baubau,samo ni pa dobro da jo kar tako na hitro brez vednosti kako bo na dolgi rok prevzamemo za neko super duper stvar ki bo rešila svet vseh mogočih tegob...
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antonija ::
hja, glede na to da si z denarjem lahko kupiš svoja pravila...Jah trenutno so pravila igre taka da si z denarjem lahko kupis nova pravila igre. Jamrat da mi to ni vsec nic ne pomaga, bo treba kaj bolj konkretnega narest.
Saj so, sabotirali so eksperiment in jasno pokazali da so proti..
In s tem so kaj pripomogli k zmanjsaju korupcije v politiki??
Statistically 3 out of 4 involved usually enjoy gang-bang experience.
poweroff ::
Ja, Komatu je treba vse verjeti. Hudobci so trosili škodljive hrošče, da so lahko prodajali insekticide. Samo še chemtrailsi in Illuminati manjkajo.
No, samo se ne sme nekaj pozabiti.
KDO HUDIČA JE RAZVIL AGENT ORANGE?
Ha?
Da, da, to je tisti herbicid, ki so ga Američani trosili po Vietnamu. Rezultat: visoka smrtnost novorojenčkov, rojenih z genetskimi okvarami (celo 3. generacija!) in visoka obolevnost za rakom.
Da, dragi moji. To je razvil - Monsanto. Ki je tudi VEDEL za nevarnosti dioksina, pa je to zamolčal - ne Vietnamcem, pač pa ameriški vojski. Ker sicer bi le-ta prenehala kupovati Agent Orange pri njih.
Tako pa so na koncu (vojska, ne Monsanto) izplačali kakšnih 8000 odškodnin svojim vojakom, ki so utrpeli težke posledice.
Tako da nezaupanje do Monsanta ima temelj. Trden temelj.
sudo poweroff
Okapi ::
In zakaj lažeš? Nič od tega, kar si napisal, ni namreč res.
Agent orange @ Wikipedia
O.
Arthur W. Galston (d. June 15, 2008) was an American botanist and bioethicist who, as a graduate student at the University of Illinois, discovered the defoliant properties of a chemical that was subsequently studied and utilized by the United States Army.
In 1943, the U.S. Department of the Army contracted the University of Chicago to study the effects of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T on cereal grains (including rice) and broadleaf crops.
...
Internal memoranda revealed Monsanto Corporation (a manufacturer of 2,4,5-T) had informed the U.S. government as early as 1952 that 2,4,5-T was contaminated with a toxic chemical.
Agent orange @ Wikipedia
O.
darkolord ::
Prav nič ni res?
Da, da, to je tisti herbicid, ki so ga Američani trosili po Vietnamu.
Agent Orange is the code name for one of the herbicides and defoliants used by the U.S. military as part of its herbicidal warfare program, Operation Ranch Hand, during the Vietnam War from 1961 to 1971.Check.
Da, dragi moji. To je razvil - Monsanto.
A 50:50 mixture of 2,4,5-T and 2,4-D, it was manufactured for the U.S. Department of Defense primarily by Monsanto Corporation and Dow Chemical.Check.
Rezultat: visoka smrtnost novorojenčkov, rojenih z genetskimi okvarami (celo 3. generacija!)
Vietnam estimates 400,000 people being killed or maimed, and 500,000 children born with birth defects.Check.
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Okapi ::
Bistvo Matthaijeve trditve je, da je Agent orange razvil Monsanto (fail) in da Monsanto ameriške vlade ni obvestil o njegovi strupenosti (fail).
Za vse slabe posledice Agent Oranga je kriva izključno ameriška vlada.
Njegov post je lažnivo zavajanje in neupravičeno blatenje Monsanta. OK, je že res, da verjetno zaradi nevednosti, ampak vseeno.
No, jaz bi pa moral napisati, da nič od tega, kar je napisal o Monsantu, ni res.
O.
Za vse slabe posledice Agent Oranga je kriva izključno ameriška vlada.
Njegov post je lažnivo zavajanje in neupravičeno blatenje Monsanta. OK, je že res, da verjetno zaradi nevednosti, ampak vseeno.
No, jaz bi pa moral napisati, da nič od tega, kar je napisal o Monsantu, ni res.
O.
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Pyr0Beast ::
Bistvo Matthaijeve trditve je, da je Agent orange razvil Monsanto (fail) in da Monsanto ameriške vlade ni obvestil o njegovi strupenosti (fail).
Agent orange je codename produkta ki se je tržil vojski. 'Odkril' ga je študent, firma pa ga je verjetno naprej razvijala do največje učinkovitosti (finančne, kemične etc.)
To da je produkt toksičen in se je kot tak uporabljal bi moralo zadevati vse v verigi in odgovornost bi morala nositi tudi firma sama.
Internal memoranda revealed Monsanto Corporation (a manufacturer of 2,4,5-T) had informed the U.S. government as early as 1952 that 2,4,5-T was contaminated with a toxic chemical.
>>>>
But in 1969, it was revealed to the public that the 2,4,5-T was contaminated with a dioxin, 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzodioxin (TCDD), and that the TCDD was causing many of the previously unexplained adverse health effects which were correlated with Agent Orange exposure.
In tale 'memo' piše samo o obveščanju _Vojaških Častnikov_ BREZ da bi se od njih zahtevale kakršnekoli spremembe ali dejanja.
In firma glede kontaminiranega produkta ni naredila _NIČ_
Nikjer niso zabeležene izboljšave procesa in čiščenje produkta. Navsezadnje, se produkta praktično ne da popolnoma očistiti TCCD, ki pa dela škodo v praktično 'zanemarljivih' koncentracijah in kot takega bi ga morali preprosto odstraniti iz tržišča. Pa niso
Za vse slabe posledice Agent Oranga je kriva izključno ameriška vlada.
Ne pa ni.
Kriv je tudi proizvajalec.
Potrošnik.
In vse kar spada vmes.
Agent White is a 4:1 mixture of 2,4-D and Picloram (also known as Tordon 101). Unlike the more infamous Agent Orange, Agent White did not contain dioxin, which was a contaminant in the defoliants that included 2,4,5-trichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4,5-T). However, it appears the Picloram was contaminated with hexachlorobenzene (HCB) and nitrosamines, both known carcinogens. Agent White was a proprietary product of the Dow Chemical Company. Around 1985, Dow Chemical WAS FORCED to re-certify Picloram after having greatly reduced the amounts of both contaminants.
WAS FORCED !!!!
Some nanoparticles are more equal than others
Good work: Any notion of sanity and critical thought is off-topic in this place
Good work: Any notion of sanity and critical thought is off-topic in this place
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poweroff ::
Iz revije Radar:
Verjetno ne bo težko zgooglat originalnih dokumentov.
Vojaška stroka naj ne bi vedela, kako nevaren je agent orange in kako škodi človekovemu zdravju. Drugače je bilo pri kemijskih proizvajalcih. Konec sedemdesetih je namreč prišla na dan interna zabeležka njihovega sestanka, kjer so med drugim govorili o nevarnosti dioksina. Zapisnik je dokaz, da so se vodstva zavedala resnosti položaja, vendar o tem niso želela obvestiti pristojnih v vojski, saj bi se potem morala odpovedati dobičku.
Verjetno ne bo težko zgooglat originalnih dokumentov.
sudo poweroff
antonija ::
A se cist zares kregate o tem, ali so biloska orozja nevarna za ljudi? In ali vojske, ki taka orozja uporabljajo, (ne)vejo da so nevarna za ljudi? In posledicno se celo krivite firme, ki orozje izdelujejo, da so kriva za smrti ljudi? Hypocrite much?
Statistically 3 out of 4 involved usually enjoy gang-bang experience.
Okapi ::
tale 'memo' piše samo o obveščanju _Vojaških Častnikov_ BREZ da bi se od njih zahtevale kakršnekoli spremembe ali dejanja.Matthai je pisal, da jih niso obvestili. In od kdaj je dolžnost neke firme, da od vojske kaj zahteva?
Iz revije Radar:No ja, Wikipedija sicer ni vsemogočna, je pa vseeno mnogo verodostojnejša od Radarja.
O.
poweroff ::
Normalno poslovanje to zahteva. Če ugotoviš da je tvoj produkt nevaren, obvestiš kupca.
sudo poweroff
Okapi ::
In? A moram še enkrat citirati tisti del, v katerem piše, da je Monsanto vojsko obvestil. Če se je vojska požvižgala na opozorila, to ni problem Monsanta. Poleg tega sem prepričan, da je Monsanto svoje izdelke (tiste v prosti prodaji) opremil z opozorilom, da je pri rokovanju potrebno uporabljati zaščitna sredstva. Če so vojaki to prekladali z golimi rokami in brez zaščitnih mask, ter potem vse skupaj na veliko stresali po Vietnamcih, za posledice prav tako ni kriv Monsanto.
O.
O.
panda ::
Glede na to da je Mosanto tu precej popularna tema sem malo googlali nasel to ter kako ga prinas oglasujejo
Ima izvrstne ekološke lastnosti, saj ni uvrščen med strupe, ni škodljiv za ptice, čebele, deževnike in vodne organizmevirhttp://www.agroruse.si/index.php?option...
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darkolord ::
A se cist zares kregate o tem, ali so biloska orozja nevarna za ljudi? In ali vojske, ki taka orozja uporabljajo, (ne)vejo da so nevarna za ljudi? In posledicno se celo krivite firme, ki orozje izdelujejo, da so kriva za smrti ljudi? Hypocrite much?To ne, ampak američani vseskozi vztrajno trdijo, da v tem primeru NI šlo za biološko orožje, ampak zgolj za herbicid in da so ga tako tudi uporabljali.
BlueRunner ::
Ja in? Zyklon B je bil pa pesticid. Ženevska konvencija govori o kemčinih sredstvih, kamor spada tudi npr. beli fosfor in to je to.
In seveda se bodo ZDA neprestano izgovarjale na neke leve scene ali pa preprosto ne bodo pristopale k mednarodnim konvencijam. Čeprav včasih ZDA storijo tudi kaj človekoljubnega (če je seveda dovolj profitabilno in pragmatično v mednarodni realpolitik), pa so kot vojaška velesila s svojim obnašanjem že desetletja predvsem del problema in ne več del rešitve.
In seveda se bodo ZDA neprestano izgovarjale na neke leve scene ali pa preprosto ne bodo pristopale k mednarodnim konvencijam. Čeprav včasih ZDA storijo tudi kaj človekoljubnega (če je seveda dovolj profitabilno in pragmatično v mednarodni realpolitik), pa so kot vojaška velesila s svojim obnašanjem že desetletja predvsem del problema in ne več del rešitve.
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antonija ::
Jah, ko vojska (in to tista ki izvaja invazijo) trdi da uporablja herbicide (in to ne na domacem vrticku), potem lahko mirno temu reces bullshit. Nekak tko kot ce bi trdili da uporabljajo kovinske metke ker je lokalno prebivastvo slabokrvno...
Pac ameriska vojska je hotela nekaj kar sname liste iz krosenj neglede na ljudi. In to jim je monsato dal (in grem stavit da so zdraven prilozili svoja opazanja glede strupenosti, vsaj da so alhko spesnili navodila za ravnanje za svoje vojake). To, da niso vedli da so lahko herbicidi (ki prakticno instantno pobijejo roze) strupeni tudi za ljudi je pac (zelo slab) drzavni PR stunt.
Pac ameriska vojska je hotela nekaj kar sname liste iz krosenj neglede na ljudi. In to jim je monsato dal (in grem stavit da so zdraven prilozili svoja opazanja glede strupenosti, vsaj da so alhko spesnili navodila za ravnanje za svoje vojake). To, da niso vedli da so lahko herbicidi (ki prakticno instantno pobijejo roze) strupeni tudi za ljudi je pac (zelo slab) drzavni PR stunt.
Statistically 3 out of 4 involved usually enjoy gang-bang experience.
Manu ::
...
Industry has invented many ways of stealing our seeds in order to manipulate them, mark them with property titles, and thereby force us, the farming peoples of the world, to buy new seeds from them every year, instead of saving and selecting them from our harvest to plant the following year. The industry’s methods include genetically modified organisms (GMOs) and hybrid seeds, which cannot be reproduced by farmers, as well as industrial property over seeds, including patents and plant variety certificates, all of which are imposed through international treaties and national laws. These are but different forms of theft, as all industrial seeds are the product of thousands of years of selection and breeding by our peoples. It is thanks to us, peasants and farmers, that humanity has at hand the great diversity of crops that, together with animal breeding, feeds the world today.
In their drive to build monopolies and steal our natural wealth, corporations and the governments who serve them place at risk all of humanity’s food and agriculture. A handful of genetically uniform varieties replace thousands of local varieties, eroding the genetic diversity that sustains our food system. Faced with climate change, diversity is a strength, and uniformity a weakness. Commercial seeds drastically reduce the capacity of humanity to face and adapt to climate change. This is why we maintain that peasant agriculture and its peasant seeds contribute to the cooling of the planet.
Our communities know that hybrid and genetically modified seeds require enormous quantities of pesticides, chemical fertilizers and water, driving up production costs and damaging the environment. Such seeds are also more susceptible to droughts, plant diseases and pest attacks, and have already caused hundreds of thousands of cases of crop failures and have left devastated household economies in their wake. The industry has bred seeds that cannot be cultivated without harmful chemicals. They have also been bred to be harvested using large machinery and are kept alive artificially to withstand transport. But the industry has ignored a very important aspect of this breeding: our health. The result is industrial seeds that grow fast have lost nutritional value and are full of chemicals. They cause numerous allergies and chronic illnesses, and contaminate the soil, water and air that we breathe.
In contrast, peasant systems for rediscovering, re-valuing, conserving and exchanging seeds, together with local adaptation due to the local selection and reproduction in farmers’ fields, maintain and increase the genetic biodiversity that underlies our world food systems and gives us the required capacity and flexibility to address diverse environments, a changing climate and hunger in the world.
Our peasant seeds are better adapted to local growing conditions. They also produce more nutritious food, and are highly productive in agroecological farming systems without pesticides or other expensive inputs. But GMOs and hybrids contaminate our seeds and put them in danger of extinction. They replace our seeds in their places of origin and lead to their disappearance. Humanity cannot survive without peasant seeds, yet corporate seeds put their very existence at risk.
...
Vir (Vir)
Industry has invented many ways of stealing our seeds in order to manipulate them, mark them with property titles, and thereby force us, the farming peoples of the world, to buy new seeds from them every year, instead of saving and selecting them from our harvest to plant the following year. The industry’s methods include genetically modified organisms (GMOs) and hybrid seeds, which cannot be reproduced by farmers, as well as industrial property over seeds, including patents and plant variety certificates, all of which are imposed through international treaties and national laws. These are but different forms of theft, as all industrial seeds are the product of thousands of years of selection and breeding by our peoples. It is thanks to us, peasants and farmers, that humanity has at hand the great diversity of crops that, together with animal breeding, feeds the world today.
In their drive to build monopolies and steal our natural wealth, corporations and the governments who serve them place at risk all of humanity’s food and agriculture. A handful of genetically uniform varieties replace thousands of local varieties, eroding the genetic diversity that sustains our food system. Faced with climate change, diversity is a strength, and uniformity a weakness. Commercial seeds drastically reduce the capacity of humanity to face and adapt to climate change. This is why we maintain that peasant agriculture and its peasant seeds contribute to the cooling of the planet.
Our communities know that hybrid and genetically modified seeds require enormous quantities of pesticides, chemical fertilizers and water, driving up production costs and damaging the environment. Such seeds are also more susceptible to droughts, plant diseases and pest attacks, and have already caused hundreds of thousands of cases of crop failures and have left devastated household economies in their wake. The industry has bred seeds that cannot be cultivated without harmful chemicals. They have also been bred to be harvested using large machinery and are kept alive artificially to withstand transport. But the industry has ignored a very important aspect of this breeding: our health. The result is industrial seeds that grow fast have lost nutritional value and are full of chemicals. They cause numerous allergies and chronic illnesses, and contaminate the soil, water and air that we breathe.
In contrast, peasant systems for rediscovering, re-valuing, conserving and exchanging seeds, together with local adaptation due to the local selection and reproduction in farmers’ fields, maintain and increase the genetic biodiversity that underlies our world food systems and gives us the required capacity and flexibility to address diverse environments, a changing climate and hunger in the world.
Our peasant seeds are better adapted to local growing conditions. They also produce more nutritious food, and are highly productive in agroecological farming systems without pesticides or other expensive inputs. But GMOs and hybrids contaminate our seeds and put them in danger of extinction. They replace our seeds in their places of origin and lead to their disappearance. Humanity cannot survive without peasant seeds, yet corporate seeds put their very existence at risk.
...
Vir (Vir)
Sredi spečih in nepazljivih je modrec buden in pazljiv -
po poti gre kot hiter konj, ki je prehitel šibko kljuse.
po poti gre kot hiter konj, ki je prehitel šibko kljuse.
PaX_MaN ::
The industry's methods include genetically modified organisms (GMOs) and hybrid seeds, which cannot be reproduced by farmers
Čak da najdem sliko unga vijoličnega krompirja - desno narejen z GSO, levo, narejen s olej!, križanjem.
poweroff ::
Torej:
Njihov produkt je bil bolj strupen od konkurenčnega. So bili tudi stroški nižji?
Vsekakor lahko njihovim neodvisnim raziskavam zelo zaupamo:
Vsekakor nam preteklost zbuja zaupanje, da sedaj ravnajo popolnoma drugače:
Seveda je to preteklost - ali pač morda ne in smo upravičeno nezaupljivi:
Je pa treba povedati, da GSO podjetja kar konkretno nagrajujejo nekatere novinarje in mnenjske voditelje. Odpeljejo jih recimo na izlet v Južno Ameriko, kjer jim kažejo pozitivne učinke GSO. Seveda so to sami "nepristranski" in "objektivni" podatki.
Vprašanje je, če za takšne posameznike lahko trdimo, da so resnično neodvisni. Ali pa gre tukaj morda za "embedded novinarstvo" oz. po domače povedano za nekakšno "podkupovanje"? Vsekakor bi človek z visoko stopnjo integritete takšne oblike "prepričevanja" moral zavrniti, saj mu jemljejo kredibilnost in objektivnost. Ampak to je samo moje mnenje.
Kaj pa meniš ti, Okapi?
Še vir: http://www.social-ecology.org/1998/09/m...
The herbicide "Agent Orange," which was used by U.S. military forces to defoliate the rainforest ecosystems of Vietnam during the 1960s was a mixture of 2,4,5-T and 2,4-D that was available from several sources, but Monsanto's Agent Orange had concentrations of dioxin many times higher than that produced by Dow Chemical, the defoliant's other leading manufacturer.
Njihov produkt je bil bolj strupen od konkurenčnega. So bili tudi stroški nižji?
Vsekakor lahko njihovim neodvisnim raziskavam zelo zaupamo:
In the 1980s, Monsanto undertook a series of studies designed to minimize its liability, not only in the Agent Orange suit, but in continuing instances of employee contamination at its West Virginia manufacturing plant. A three-and-one-half-year court case brought by railroad workers exposed to dioxin following a train derailment revealed a pattern of manipulated data and misleading experimental design in these studies. An official of the U.S. EPA concluded that the studies were manipulated to support Monsanto's claim that dioxin's effects were limited to the skin disease chloracne. Greenpeace researchers Jed Greer and Kenny Bruno describe the outcome:
Vsekakor nam preteklost zbuja zaupanje, da sedaj ravnajo popolnoma drugače:
According to testimony from the trial, Monsanto misclassified exposed and non-exposed workers, arbitrarily deleted several key cancer cases, failed to verify classification of chloracne subjects by common industrial dermatitis criteria, did not provide assurance of untampered records delivered and used by consultants, and made false statements about dioxin contamination in Monsanto products.
Seveda je to preteklost - ali pač morda ne in smo upravičeno nezaupljivi:
The court case, in which the jury granted a $16 million punitive damage award against Monsanto, revealed that many of Monsanto's products, from household herbicides to the Santophen germicide once used in Lysol brand disinfectant, were knowingly contaminated with dioxin. "The evidence of Monsanto executives at the trial portrayed a corporate culture where sales and profits were given a higher priority than the safety of products and its workers," reported the Toronto Globe and Mail after the close of the trial. "They just didn't care about the health and safety of their workers," explains author Peter Sills. "Instead of trying to make things safer, they relied on intimidation and threatened layoffs to keep their employees working."
Je pa treba povedati, da GSO podjetja kar konkretno nagrajujejo nekatere novinarje in mnenjske voditelje. Odpeljejo jih recimo na izlet v Južno Ameriko, kjer jim kažejo pozitivne učinke GSO. Seveda so to sami "nepristranski" in "objektivni" podatki.
Vprašanje je, če za takšne posameznike lahko trdimo, da so resnično neodvisni. Ali pa gre tukaj morda za "embedded novinarstvo" oz. po domače povedano za nekakšno "podkupovanje"? Vsekakor bi človek z visoko stopnjo integritete takšne oblike "prepričevanja" moral zavrniti, saj mu jemljejo kredibilnost in objektivnost. Ampak to je samo moje mnenje.
Kaj pa meniš ti, Okapi?
Še vir: http://www.social-ecology.org/1998/09/m...
sudo poweroff
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenilo: poweroff ()
Okapi ::
Kaj pa meniš ti, Okapi?Da se zaman trudiš s kopiranjem citatov. Če si v prvi rundi navedel samo dokazljive izmišljotine, se v drugi z njimi niti trudil ne bom, mi dovolj pove vir (inštitut za socialno ekologijo). Pa v resnici mi dol visi, kaj si misliš o Monsantu (za katerega čisto nikjer nisem napisal, da je brezgrešni svetnik) in kateri propagandi nasedaš. Prav malo mi je mar tudi, če si nevoščljiv novinarjem, ki so si zadevo lahko ogledali od blizu
Vem samo, da boste nekateri čez 50 let izpadli kot ludisti, ali tisti, ki so se pred 100 leti bali elektrike in avtomobilov.
O.
poweroff ::
No, če ti na podlagi imena vira (inštitut za socialno ekologijo) stvar diskreditiraš z levo roko, lahko jaz potem tudi tebe neham jemati resno kot embedded aktivista?
Navedi argumente. Moj vir je vsaj tako kredibilen kot Wikipedia.
Navedi argumente. Moj vir je vsaj tako kredibilen kot Wikipedia.
sudo poweroff
Pyr0Beast ::
Matthai je pisal, da jih niso obvestili. In od kdaj je dolžnost neke firme, da od vojske kaj zahteva?
Kloramfenikol anyone ?
Some nanoparticles are more equal than others
Good work: Any notion of sanity and critical thought is off-topic in this place
Good work: Any notion of sanity and critical thought is off-topic in this place
antonija ::
Kloramfenikol anyone ?Tega dobis pri zdravniku skoraj vsakic ko imas kaj z ocmi narobe. Pri tem ni bil problem strupenost, ampak nasa strategija sparanja se delujocih antibiotikov da nebi bakterije prehitro razvile rezistence.
Statistically 3 out of 4 involved usually enjoy gang-bang experience.
driver_x ::
Pri nekaterih boleznih učinkuje edino še kloramfenikol, na vse drugo so bakterije že razvile odpornost.
Pyr0Beast ::
Ok. Potem pa melamin v mleku.
Kar citiraj ga. Piše samo da je obvestil vojaške častnike. Ne piše pa ali je od njih sploh zahteval karkoli in o čem jih je obvestil (da je produkt potencialno toksičen? - ali so to naslovniki sploh razumeli, da se v produktu nahaja kontaminant 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin poleg (2,4,5-Trichlorophenoxy)acetic acid)
in (2,4-dichlorophenoxy)acetic acid ?) ali pa da je sploh dobil potrdilo, da so 'memo' dobili. Magari so ga poslali v /dev/null/, ali pa pismo sploh ni zapustilo samo firmo in je nekje na pol poti končalo v košu pri tajnici.
Če prvo ni pisalo da je potrebno uporabljati zaščitna sredstva, nato pa kar nenadoma je, je tega kriva firma saj je zamolčala vse skupaj v kolikor ni vedela.
Poleg tega Monsanto _NI_ obvestil javnosti.
In? A moram še enkrat citirati tisti del, v katerem piše, da je Monsanto vojsko obvestil. Če se je vojska požvižgala na opozorila, to ni problem Monsanta. Poleg tega sem prepričan, da je Monsanto svoje izdelke (tiste v prosti prodaji) opremil z opozorilom, da je pri rokovanju potrebno uporabljati zaščitna sredstva. Če so vojaki to prekladali z golimi rokami in brez zaščitnih mask, ter potem vse skupaj na veliko stresali po Vietnamcih, za posledice prav tako ni kriv Monsanto.
Kar citiraj ga. Piše samo da je obvestil vojaške častnike. Ne piše pa ali je od njih sploh zahteval karkoli in o čem jih je obvestil (da je produkt potencialno toksičen? - ali so to naslovniki sploh razumeli, da se v produktu nahaja kontaminant 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin poleg (2,4,5-Trichlorophenoxy)acetic acid)
in (2,4-dichlorophenoxy)acetic acid ?) ali pa da je sploh dobil potrdilo, da so 'memo' dobili. Magari so ga poslali v /dev/null/, ali pa pismo sploh ni zapustilo samo firmo in je nekje na pol poti končalo v košu pri tajnici.
Če prvo ni pisalo da je potrebno uporabljati zaščitna sredstva, nato pa kar nenadoma je, je tega kriva firma saj je zamolčala vse skupaj v kolikor ni vedela.
Poleg tega Monsanto _NI_ obvestil javnosti.
Some nanoparticles are more equal than others
Good work: Any notion of sanity and critical thought is off-topic in this place
Good work: Any notion of sanity and critical thought is off-topic in this place
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Pyr0Beast ()
antonija ::
Ok. Potem pa melamin v mleku.Melamin je bil pogruntavscina enega kitajca ki je hotel imel visje vsebnosti dusika v svojem izdelku. Samo revezu noben ni povedal da stabilizator za plastiko in barvo mogoce ni najboljsa izbira.
Poleg tega Monsanto _NI_ obvestil javnosti.Ni obvestil javnosti glede bioloskega orozja ki ga je vojska trenutno uporabljala? Shocker!!
Dokler ne bo kdo precej nazorno pokazal da vojska ni vedela nic o strupenosti herbicida (ki skoraj instantno preprica drevesa da odvrzejo liste), do takrat bom jaz predvidedval da so tako pri monsatu kot tudi v US vojski precej dobro vedeli za potencialne nevarnosti uporabe. In obojim se je gladko jebalo za posledice na lokalnem prebivalstvu, monsatu zaradi dolarjev, US vojski pa zato ker se jim vecinoma jebe za lokalno prebivalstvo.
Statistically 3 out of 4 involved usually enjoy gang-bang experience.
Pyr0Beast ::
Melamin je bil pogruntavscina enega kitajca ki je hotel imel visje vsebnosti dusika v svojem izdelku. Samo revezu noben ni povedal da stabilizator za plastiko in barvo mogoce ni najboljsa izbira.
In mleko ter produkte so umaknili iz tržišča, modela (in njegova 2 pajdaša) pa usmrtili.
Monsanto:
Nothing happened. Plačali so odškodnine, pa še to so se trudili, da jih nebi.
Ni obvestil javnosti glede bioloskega orozja ki ga je vojska trenutno uporabljala? Shocker!! 8-O
Ja, res bummer. Tudi vlade ni obvestil in vojakov tudi ne, vietnamce pa še najmanj. :shock:
Dokler ne bo kdo precej nazorno pokazal da vojska ni vedela nic o strupenosti herbicida (ki skoraj instantno preprica drevesa da odvrzejo liste), do takrat bom jaz predvidedval da so tako pri monsatu kot tudi v US vojski precej dobro vedeli za potencialne nevarnosti uporabe.
Narod ni vedel 0 do leta 1969.
Tudi potem ko so določene modele na položajih obvestili.
In so s tem aktivno onemogočali kakršnekoli kritike.
In obojim se je gladko jebalo za posledice na lokalnem prebivalstvu, monsatu zaradi dolarjev, US vojski pa zato ker se jim vecinoma jebe za lokalno prebivalstvo.
No tole.
In zakaj bi bilo danes kaj drugače ?
Some nanoparticles are more equal than others
Good work: Any notion of sanity and critical thought is off-topic in this place
Good work: Any notion of sanity and critical thought is off-topic in this place
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Pyr0Beast ()
antonija ::
Monsanto:Ce ti vojska placa da za njih razvijes biolosko orozje, potem zelo verjetno nekam v pogodbo vtaknes klavzulo da ti ne bos nosil nic odgovornosti za uporabo doticnega orozja. Sej je isto s strelnim roozjem ali pa explozivom. Ti ga izdelas za vojsko, kaj oni delajo anprej z njim ni vec tvoj problem. Kind of like drug dealers :)
Nothing happened. Plačali so odškodnine, pa še to so se trudili, da jih nebi.
Narod ni vedel 0 do leta 1969.Ja itak da ni ce je bilo vojno stanje. Takrat vojska ni nic kaj navdusena nad dajanjem iformacij o orozju, ki ga trenutno uporablja. Sej ne trdim da je to prav, ampak tako je se danes.
In zakaj bi bilo danes kaj drugače ?Sej ni... razlika je to da glede agrikulture mora monsato ustrezati vsem evropskim in mednarodnim normativom, njegove izdelke in dokumentacijo se kontrolira (tako kot vsakega drugega) in glede na to kaj so drugi napislai v tejle temi so nekateri monsatovi izdelki v EU prepovedani, lkjub temu da se uporabljajo v US in JP. To pomeni da zgoraj omenjeni nadzor deluje vsaj priblizno (ne vemo pa a deluje dobro ali slabo).
Statistically 3 out of 4 involved usually enjoy gang-bang experience.
darkolord ::
Ce ti vojska placa da za njih razvijes biolosko orozje...Sam da oni so plačali za herbicid, ne za biološko orožje.
Okapi ::
Saj ni res. Oni so plačali natanko to, kar so dobili. Monsanto in še par drugih kemičnih tovarn je dobilo recept, po katerem so zadevo naredili.
O.
O.
antonija ::
Nixon je imel probleme s paradajzi ki jih trenutno dostopni herbicidi niso mogli resit, pa so na hitro narocili novega, ja.
Oni so plačali natanko to, kar so dobili.In uporabili. In potem iskali izgovore zakaj oni niso krivi za uporabo.
Statistically 3 out of 4 involved usually enjoy gang-bang experience.
darkolord ::
Oni so plačali natanko to, kar so dobili.S tem nisi pa čisto nič povedal. To lahko rečeš tudi, če namesto salame v trgovini dobiš kupček dreka - "plačal si to, kar si dobil". What?!
A če kupiš na primer hrano, ki ima notri strup, in jo poješ, potem si v bistvu itak kupil strup in ne hrane ("plačal si tisto kar si dobil") in se nimaš kaj pritoževat?
antonija ::
Ce si ameriska vojska in namenis del svojega proracuna za "herbicid", potem naredis razpis, v katerem pozivas vse izdelovalce "herbicidov" da oddajo svoje ponudbe, izberes najboljsega (tistega ki je dal vec denarja v kuverto) in podpises pogodbo. V tej pogodbi so zahteve, ki jih mora "herbicid" izpolnjevati, cesa ne sme "herbicid" poceti, kaksne so odgovornosti proizvajalca "herbicida", kaksne so odgovornosti narocnika, roki, etc. Ko je to podpisano proizvajalec dostavi "herbicid" z vnaprej zahtevanimi lastnostmi v dogovrjenih rokih.
Ne vem kako ti kopujes salamo ampak jaz recem "deset dek ogrske prosim, pa ne tiste od Merkatorja" in pocakam 5 min da mi zdolgocasena teta v rekordno pocasnem tempu olupi Pick ogersko salamo, jo prenesa na rezalnik, kjer jo mojstrsko razmrcvari v zmes, ki je se najbolj podobna tatarskemu bifteku ki mu je pred 2 tedni pretekel rok uporabe. In pol se nimam kaj pritozevat.
Ne vem kako ti kopujes salamo ampak jaz recem "deset dek ogrske prosim, pa ne tiste od Merkatorja" in pocakam 5 min da mi zdolgocasena teta v rekordno pocasnem tempu olupi Pick ogersko salamo, jo prenesa na rezalnik, kjer jo mojstrsko razmrcvari v zmes, ki je se najbolj podobna tatarskemu bifteku ki mu je pred 2 tedni pretekel rok uporabe. In pol se nimam kaj pritozevat.
Statistically 3 out of 4 involved usually enjoy gang-bang experience.
darkolord ::
Ja, če bi pogledali tisti razpis in pogodbe, tam zagotovo piše, da je ameriška vojska naročila "herbicid" in da sta jim Monsanto in Dow tudi prodala ta "herbicid" - potem, ko je bilo sranje, so pa oboji dvignili roke ("mi smo jih [sicer pozno] obvestili o stranskih učinkih in jim še naprej dobavljali enako strupen produkt", na drugi strani pa "čeprav smo vedeli o stranskih učinkih, smo zadevo še vedno uporabljali kot herbicid"). Vsi so pravi angelčki.
Če malo pretiravam, je to tako, kot da ko proizvajalec v svoji hrani odkrije strup in reče "tole je ful strupeno, ampak nič ne de, kupite še več hrane".
Še malo branja (zadnji odstavek je zabaven):
Če malo pretiravam, je to tako, kot da ko proizvajalec v svoji hrani odkrije strup in reče "tole je ful strupeno, ampak nič ne de, kupite še več hrane".
Še malo branja (zadnji odstavek je zabaven):
Monsanto's Dr. James Wilson's testimony shows that Monsanto decided to sell its 2,4-Di despite Monsanto's having assumed that it contained 2,3,7,8. In fact, Wilson testified that Monsanto knowingly sent TCDD-contaminated 2,4-Di to its customers from 1978 to 1983 and that there was no evidence that any customer ever was notified of the contamination. Wilson testified that Monsanto possibly was shipping out Santophen [the Lysol ingredient] with 65 parts per billion of TCDD before February of 1979, and that who got the contaminated product depended on the 'luck of the draw'. Wilson testified that Monsanto has produced products with dioxin for fifty years. Even though Monsanto had adapted Dr. Paget's recommendation that one part per billion 2,3,7,8 is 'probably medically acceptable', Monsanto knew that higher levels of TCDDs that 'coeluete like' 2,3,7,8 were in its products, and yet gave no notice to its customers. Wilson knew Monsanto was sending out 2,4-Di with much more than 100 parts per billion of TCDDs. Wilson testified that he knew Lysol was used on children and dogs."
.......The brief continues, explaining that Monsanto's Elizabeth Fay "testified that the Santophen Monsanto had been selling for 23 years was used in hospitals and homes, and that it could have contained levels of TCDD The transcript contains literally hundreds of admissions that Monsanto was selling dioxin-contaminated chlorophenol products to its customers for nearly 30 years, and that it did so with the knowledge that these products contained a contamination that was highly toxic to both the environment and to human beings."
.......In 1976, Congress passed the Toxic Substances Control Act, which gave new powers to the EPA. This law required companies like Monsanto to report dioxin contamination to the federal government if they discovered it in their products. Despite this, testimony revealed that in 1978, all Monsanto products were contaminated with dioxin.
......."At one time in 1979, Monsanto represented to the EPA that Monsanto could not test its products for the presence of 2,3,7,8 because the extreme toxicity of the 2,3,7,8 precluded its use in Monsanto's labs.* The testimony was that this was an untrue statement and that the upper echelons of Monsanto Company knew 2,3,7,8 was being used in Monsanto's labs. In fact, Monsanto had a 2,3,7,8 sample in its lab no later than 1970. [*Carr's footnote: At trial, one of Monsanto's excuses for its not having tested its products and not having reported its TCDDs and 2,3,7,8 was that Monsanto did not have sufficiently precise testing methods to detect it at low levels. Wilson testified TCDD testing could have been done as early as 1957, but Monsanto tested very few batches before the Sturgeon spill. Fred Hileman admitted that it was possible that Monsanto just did not utilize its full testing capacity. Monsanto had no regular testing program before the spill. James Mieure's testimony shows that Monsanto implemented only after the Sturgeon spill a much more precise TCDD testing method that it could have implemented before the spill.]
......."At trial, Monsanto offered several other excuses for its having not reported the 2,3,7,8 TCDD contained in its products to the EPA. In one instance, Monsanto identified 9.5 parts per billion of what 'coeluetes like 2,3,7,8 ', but failed to report this because they were not certain that it was not indeed 2,3,7,8. Yet, there is no evidence that Monsanto told the EPA when these 'uncertainties' later were removed by exact identification of 2,3,7,8. It was [Monsanto lawyer] Phocion Park's opinion that Monsanto had no duty to report small amount small amounts of 2,3,7,8 in its products. Park stated that reporting very low levels of 2,3,7,8 would merely 'add fuel to the media fires'. Park testified further that the EPA need not have been notified of dioxin in Monsanto's products because the EPA already knew that dioxin was dangerous!"
.......This kind of circular reasoning can be found all through the environmental lawsuit files of almost every corporation that's been brought to court. With Monsanto, even as the catastrophic dangers of its products were being exposed in environmental and health disasters, its product development committee was voting to increase sales of the same products, in one case by twenty-fold. And if customers were ever warned about potential dangers, it was a special situation, and it came after many years of denials. Carr deals with the warning issue in the Kemner Brief.
......."Monsanto never warned any of the potential customers even though it knew the consumers would be exposed to quantities of Monsanto's dioxin. Monsanto knew that people were spraying their lawns with a product containing 2,3,7,8 and that these people had no way of knowing of the presence or toxicity of 2,3,7,8 in these products. Monsanto knew that Lysol contained Monsanto's 2,3,7,8 and that Lysol was recommended for cleaning [household items] and children's toys, although there was no warning to customers that Lysol contained any dioxin."
.......But now for the obvious question:
......."Why did Monsanto lie and fail to notify the world about the dioxin in [its] chlorophenols?" Carr asks in the Kemner Brief. "Monsanto knew that its chlorophenols would be less marketable if customers learned about the dioxin content. Monsanto's James Wilson testified that it was profitable for Monsanto to not notify its customers."
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenilo: darkolord ()
antonija ::
Ne vem kdo je trdil da sta monsato in US vojska angelcka (bi sel stavit da je bilo veckrat napisano da so oboji precej podli), ampak ce US vojska obtozuje monsato da niso vedeli kaj so od njih narocili... *cough*bullshit*cough*
Statistically 3 out of 4 involved usually enjoy gang-bang experience.
darkolord ::
Bi kar prisegel, da je nekdo malo višje napisal, da Monsanto in Dow ne nosita prav nikakršne odgovornosti za posledice v zvezi z Agent Orange.
Obtožujejo pa seveda drug drugega, tako kot povsod, da potem na koncu uradno nihče ni nič kriv.
Meni se pa sicer ne zdi tako neverjetno, da vojska vsaj na začetku ni vedela, kako nevarna je dejansko zadeva - če ne zaradi drugega, zaradi svojih vojakov.
Obtožujejo pa seveda drug drugega, tako kot povsod, da potem na koncu uradno nihče ni nič kriv.
Meni se pa sicer ne zdi tako neverjetno, da vojska vsaj na začetku ni vedela, kako nevarna je dejansko zadeva - če ne zaradi drugega, zaradi svojih vojakov.
antonija ::
Bi kar prisegel, da je nekdo malo višje napisal, da Monsanto in Dow ne nosita prav nikakršne odgovornosti za posledice v zvezi z Agent Orange.Zakaj bi jih pa? Sej sta ga samo izdelala in potem dala vojski. Razen kaksne moralne odgovornosti (ki bi jo morali cutiti vsi proizvajalci orozja in tudi vseh drugih artiklov s katerimi alhko povzrocis poskodbe ali smrt) je to to.
Meni se pa sicer ne zdi tako neverjetno, da vojska vsaj na začetku ni vedela, kako nevarna je dejansko zadeva - če ne zaradi drugega, zaradi svojih vojakov.Meni se zdi pa zelo cudno da nebi vedela... sej so tud drugi primeri kjer so zelo dobro vedeli kaksne so posledice na ljudeh (pa to ne samo US vojska, so druge cist enako gnile) pa so se vedno mirno furali zadeve in potem pac izplacali tisti drobiz odskodnin.
Ce se jim bolj splaca prekrsit zakon, pobrat profite in potem placat odskodnine, bojo to naredil. Tako drzave kot firme (pa verjetno tudi posamezniki). Ce so pa odskodnine prevelike glede na pricakovane profite potem je pa treba najprej spremenit zakone...
Statistically 3 out of 4 involved usually enjoy gang-bang experience.
Vredno ogleda ...
Tema | Ogledi | Zadnje sporočilo | |
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