IQ

Zanima koliko znaša v Sloveniji najvišji IQ? Zanima me tudi povprečni IQ Slovencev.

Hvala za odgovore! lp!

Članek na temo - Siol.net

Quantum je 3. mar 2016 ob 12:54 izjavil:

Zanima koliko znaša v Sloveniji najvišji IQ? Zanima me tudi povprečni IQ Slovencev.

IQ je definiran glede na populacijo. Če pogledaš zgolj populacijo Slovencev, potem je njihov povprečen IQ po definiciji natančno 100.

Če pogledaš večjo populacijo, ki vključuje tudi celotno populacijo Slovencev, pa postanejo IQ testi vprašljivi, ker je postane celotna populacija preveč kulturno mešana, testi pa vsebujejo preveč kulturne in izobrazbene pristranosti. Kot primer: če bi IQ test med drugim testiral tudi tvojo sposobnost ločevanja različnih rib, bi na njemu v primerjavi z Eskimi pogorel, tako kot bi oni pogoreli, če bi test vključeval testiranje sposobnosti ločevanja gob.

Testi IQ v resnici merijo izključno sposobnost reševanja testov IQ. Vse ostalo je prodajanje megle.

O.

Smurf je 3. mar 2016 ob 15:45 izjavil:

Okapi je 3. mar 2016 ob 14:26 izjavil:

Testi IQ v resnici merijo izključno sposobnost reševanja testov IQ. Vse ostalo je prodajanje megle.

O.

Ja, sposobnost resevanja IQ testov pa se da korelirati se s kaksno sposobnostjo.

Seveda ne pove nicesar o tem kako dober zrezek znas naresti.

Kako hitro bos razumel dolocen matematicni dokaz pa morda ja.

Problem nekaterih izmed teh korelacij (morda celo večine njih) je, da verjetno ne korelirajo s sposobnostjo, temveč z danostjo.

Npr. korelacija z akademskim uspeh ne pomeni nujno, da je nekdo "pametnejši", kot si ljudje to radi razlagajo, temveč lahko pomeni, da je oseba bolj prilagojena specifikam dela v akademskem okolju.

Ampak pri kavici se je definitivno bolj zabavno pogovarjati o tem, kdo je pametnejši in kdo neumnejši, kot pa debatirati o multivarianti analizi in multifaktorskih testih različnih sposobnosti in spretnosti.

Za okus: kdo je "pametnejši": tisti, ki ima fotografski spomin in ne zna logično sklepati ali pa morda tisti, ki zna odlično logično sklepati, spomin pa kot švicarski sir?

Za navadno rajo ja, ker ne vedo, kar pomeni.

>> Npr. korelacija z akademskim uspeh ne pomeni nujno, da je nekdo "pametnejši", kot si ljudje to radi razlagajo, temveč lahko pomeni, da je oseba bolj prilagojena specifikam dela v akademskem okolju.

Conclusions
Neither our review ofthe literature nor our analyses ofthe NLSY data provide
a single number for the effect ofeducation on IQ. Ifwe ignore the most extreme
estimates in the literature or in our own analysis, our "best guess" estimate
would be somewhere between 2 and 4 points ofIQ per year ofeducation. From
our own analysis our preferred model is model 10, which assumes reliabilities
of.9 for both early IQ and education, and has an estimated effect of 2.7 points
ofIQ per year of education.
Our analysis to this point leaves open the question of which is the more
important determinant of one's AFQT score-education or early (potentially
"inherited") IQ. As noted in the introduction, Fischer et al. have taken the
opposite position from Herrnstein and Murray. Specifically, Fischer et al. have
argued that the effects of education on IQ are considerably more important
than the effect ofearly IQ on later IQ. They cite our earlier work, in which we
first reanalyzed Herrnstein and Murray's model as supporting this position.
We disagree.
All the models in Table 10.2 suggest that both education and early IQ have
important effects on later intelligence as measured by the AFQl: It is difficult,
if not impossible, however, to compare unstandardized coefficients. We can
get around this problem by standardizing both early IQ and educational
232 Winship and Korenman
attainment to have standard deviations equal to one. Ifwe assume that each year
of education increases an individual's IQ by 2.7 points, and that the coefficient
on IQ is 0.36 (the median estimate in models 5 through 14) then the rescaled
effect of education is 5.1 and the rescaled effect of early IQ is 10.6, more than
twice as large.
Herrnstein and Murray argued in The Bell Curve that education has little or
no effect on IQ. Through examining the literature and reanalyzing the data,
we have shown that this conclusion is not supported. But is the effect large
or small? In particular, does this range of estimates suggest that education's
effect on IQ is modest, and that education may be quite limited as a policy
mechanism for reducing inequality?
Dickens et al. argue that ifIQ is as important a detenninant ofsocial and
economic success as The BellCurve suggests, then investments that increase IQ
even modestly will have substantial payoffs.44 It then becomes critical to know
how responsive IQ is to education. Dickens et al. point out that Herrnstein
and Murray's most conservative estimates suggest that a single point of IQ
increases annual earnings by $232. Thus, ifa year ofschool increases IQ by 2.7
points, our preferred estimate, the annual payoff from a year ofschoolingthrough
its effect on IQ alone-is $626. Assuming the cost of a year of high
school is between $5,000 and $8,000, these estimates suggest a substantial
monetary payoff.
Furthermore, Herrnstein and Murray demonstrate that IQ is an important
detenninant of a variety of dimensions ofsocial and economic success such as
reduced involvement in crime. Therefore, education may have a considerable
effect, through IQ alone, on these other outcomes. (See Ref. 45 for estimates
of the social benefits ofreducing criminal involvement, one of the outcomes
Herrnstein and Murray examine.) Moreover, the payoffs from additional education
discussed so far all work through increasing IQ, and hence do not
include the "direct" benefits that education might confer. In our earlier analyses
ofsibling differences in IQ and education, we found that an additional year
of educational attainment raises annual earnings by about $1,300 (compared
with one's sibling), controlling for differences in AFQT score.
Ironically, then, if the effect of education on IQ is within the broad range
we have estimated, The BellCurve's demonstration ofthe importance ofIQ for
social and economic success(in combination with other evidence ofsubstantial
"direct" effects of education) provides evidence for the importance of educational
investment as a policy instrument, quite contrary to the conclusion that
one might reach from reading The Bell Curve.

INTELLIGENCE, GENES, AND SUCCESS
Scientists Respond to The Bell Curve
Bernie Devlin
Stephen E. Fienberg
Daniel P. Resnick
Kathryn Roeder 

Imaš dva identična človeka. En ima v glavi vakum, drugi je pa inteligenten. Ta drugi bo bistveno prej pridobil mišično maso. Tudi bistveno prej bo sposoben dojeti tehniko teka.
Case denied.

Finta je predvsem v tem, da so najboljši programerji tisti z najboljšim spominom, ne tisti z najvišjim IQ.

Zato se jim reče code monkeys. Šimpanzi imajo boljši "delovni spomin" za številke od ljudi.

Smurf> Torej je potrebno na intervjuje za programerje uvesti igro spomin :>.

Al pa kar programiranje :)

Yohan del Sud je 3. mar 2016 ob 22:25 izjavil:

Če malo poguglaš average iq in slovenia sta na prvih dveh mestih podatka 96 in 110.

In če še malo poguglaš za free iq test se lahko prepričaš sam. Imaš ene par sto brezplačnih "IQ" testov. Vzemi povprečje vsaj 10 n in ga prepolovi.

Te free iq testi so bolj kvizkoti za zabavo.

maxkek> Azijci so v povprečju precej nižji od afričanov, izključno zato ker jim ne dovolijo vstopa v NBA ligo.

Jeremy Lin @ Wikipedia

Ti pač nimaš dovolj visokega IQ, da bi sam ugotovil, da kulturni vpliv deluje v obe smeri. Belec sestavi nalogo, za katero misli, da je težka, pa se izkaže, da za Kitajca sploh ni tako težka, kot si je predstavljal nek ameriški profesor (za bušmana pa je težja, kot si je predstavljal). Ker morda na to vpliva, da se je Kitajec kot otrok naučil 100x več črk kot belec.

O.

maxkek> Seveda, zato imajo v USA affirmative action

Ne. Imajo ga zaradi dobro dokumentiranega pojava: Stereotype threat @ Wikipedia

maxkek> Aja, ker če jaz mislim da si ti butast, boš dejansko butast.

Ne, vsi morajo mislit, da si butast, ker si črnc, ali pa ženska, da to deluje.

Jaz sem arijske rase in zame vsi vedo, da sem izjemno inteligenten, ker se to vidi že po modrih očeh in po tem, da svoje privilegije lahko opazim, kljub temu da sem jih deležen zaradi svoje rase.

Za Moldavijo še nisi slišal, ne?

maxkek> ...while the southern part of Moldavia was still occupied by the Tatar Mongols.

Ti so iz Azije. Po tvoje bi morali biti bistveno pametnejši in imeti bistveno višji standard (poleg tega, da so že 500 let v Moldaviji praktično vsi belci).

Smurf> Ce se bo dvema belcema rodil otrok, posvojili pa ga bodo crnski starsi nekega plemena v afriki, bo imel podoben IQ kot ostali v plemenu.

Ravno zato je pomembno, da se kitajski in japonski otroci naučijo par stokrat več črk kot njihovi zahodni vrstniki.

Učenje črk je morda bolj koristno za otrokov intelektualni razvoj kot lego kocke.

IQ testi ne temeljijo na crkah. Se enkrat, IQ testi poskusajo biti karseda neodvisni iz kje ljudje prihajajo. Ja verjetno niso matematicno popolni, ampak med popolnostjo in to je cisto brezveze, ker je cisto kulturno pogojeno je velika razlika.

Temeljijo pa na grafičnih simbolih. Črke so grafični simboli. Ko se učiš črk, razvijaš določene dele možganov, ki nato bolje/lažje/hitreje/pravilneje prepoznavajo grafične simbole. Če nisi bil nikoli izpostavljen učenju črk, ti neke narisane črte morda ne pomenijo nič, oziroma ne razumeš, zakaj bi bil pokončen pravokotnik drugačen od ležečega.

Spoštovani,
najprej bi se rad zahvalil vsem funkcionalno nepismenim na forumu. Številka verjetno niti ni tako majhna. Več o tem in o "trolanju" Jureta kasneje.

Pa najprej seznam teh udeleženih:

Smurf
Okapi
FojboFob
AndrejO
[D]emon 
kamikaze5

in še enkrat Smurf, ker ni sposoben prebrati kratkega odseka citata iz raziskave in nato čez x-postov ugotovi, to kar sem jaz citiral. Seveda to poda z enovrstičnico, kar inteligenti ljudje recimo registriramo tako kot pač registriramo.


Se opravičujem vsem, ki sem jih pozabil omeniti. Svojo dodatek k funkcionalni nepismenosti dodajti sami.


O povezavi med vašo "danostjo" in funkcionalni pismenostji bi seveda lahko na dolgo debatirali, morda celo naredili raziskavo. A kaj, ko ste že dokazali, da niste sposobni razumeti pravil foruma, niti niste sposobni raziskave prebrati ali je razumeti.

Zahteva se argumentiran pogovor, ki se nanaša na predmet razprave. Zaželeno je, da je podkrepljen z viri.

O trolanju Jureta alias Jype
Nekateri izmed vas ste obsodili Jureta na večnega trola. Predvsem zanimivo je to, da so njegove izjave večkrat povzete iz raziskav. Čeprav se z njegovim izjavljanjem večkrat ne strinjam, roko na srce, tudi če ima povprečen IQ, je pokazal več kot nekateri ostali(, ker so vaši komentarji na nivoju mongoloida).

Fenomen prisotnosti neargumentirane debate v povezavi s prisotnostjo v debati
Na kratko, povezava je zelo močna. Obiščite ustrezno usposobljeno osebnost, da vam ta fenomen razloži.

Dokaz za fenomen in funkcionalno nepismenost:

Primer Paštetka proti Smurf
https://slo-tech.com/forum/t668120/p5086529#p5086529
versus
https://slo-tech.com/forum/t668120/p5087261#p5087261

Za vas pa še enkrat lepim citat. S tem so nekatera vprašanja ZAPRTA. Trditve lahko zavrnete samo tako, da svoje trditve podprete z argumenti. Argument ni enovrstičnica ali link na prvi Googlov zadetek.

sandmodnigga je 3. mar 2016 ob 20:23 izjavil:

Za navadno rajo ja, ker ne vedo, kar pomeni.

>> Npr. korelacija z akademskim uspeh ne pomeni nujno, da je nekdo "pametnejši", kot si ljudje to radi razlagajo, temveč lahko pomeni, da je oseba bolj prilagojena specifikam dela v akademskem okolju.

Conclusions
Neither our review ofthe literature nor our analyses ofthe NLSY data provide
a single number for the effect ofeducation on IQ. Ifwe ignore the most extreme
estimates in the literature or in our own analysis, our "best guess" estimate
would be somewhere between 2 and 4 points ofIQ per year ofeducation. From
our own analysis our preferred model is model 10, which assumes reliabilities
of.9 for both early IQ and education, and has an estimated effect of 2.7 points
ofIQ per year of education.
Our analysis to this point leaves open the question of which is the more
important determinant of one's AFQT score-education or early (potentially
"inherited") IQ. As noted in the introduction, Fischer et al. have taken the
opposite position from Herrnstein and Murray. Specifically, Fischer et al. have
argued that the effects of education on IQ are considerably more important
than the effect ofearly IQ on later IQ. They cite our earlier work, in which we
first reanalyzed Herrnstein and Murray's model as supporting this position.
We disagree.
All the models in Table 10.2 suggest that both education and early IQ have
important effects on later intelligence as measured by the AFQl: It is difficult,
if not impossible, however, to compare unstandardized coefficients. We can
get around this problem by standardizing both early IQ and educational
232 Winship and Korenman
attainment to have standard deviations equal to one. Ifwe assume that each year
of education increases an individual's IQ by 2.7 points, and that the coefficient
on IQ is 0.36 (the median estimate in models 5 through 14) then the rescaled
effect of education is 5.1 and the rescaled effect of early IQ is 10.6, more than
twice as large.
Herrnstein and Murray argued in The Bell Curve that education has little or
no effect on IQ. Through examining the literature and reanalyzing the data,
we have shown that this conclusion is not supported. But is the effect large
or small? In particular, does this range of estimates suggest that education's
effect on IQ is modest, and that education may be quite limited as a policy
mechanism for reducing inequality?
Dickens et al. argue that ifIQ is as important a detenninant ofsocial and
economic success as The BellCurve suggests, then investments that increase IQ
even modestly will have substantial payoffs.44 It then becomes critical to know
how responsive IQ is to education. Dickens et al. point out that Herrnstein
and Murray's most conservative estimates suggest that a single point of IQ
increases annual earnings by $232. Thus, ifa year ofschool increases IQ by 2.7
points, our preferred estimate, the annual payoff from a year ofschoolingthrough
its effect on IQ alone-is $626. Assuming the cost of a year of high
school is between $5,000 and $8,000, these estimates suggest a substantial
monetary payoff.
Furthermore, Herrnstein and Murray demonstrate that IQ is an important
detenninant of a variety of dimensions ofsocial and economic success such as
reduced involvement in crime. Therefore, education may have a considerable
effect, through IQ alone, on these other outcomes. (See Ref. 45 for estimates
of the social benefits ofreducing criminal involvement, one of the outcomes
Herrnstein and Murray examine.) Moreover, the payoffs from additional education
discussed so far all work through increasing IQ, and hence do not
include the "direct" benefits that education might confer. In our earlier analyses
ofsibling differences in IQ and education, we found that an additional year
of educational attainment raises annual earnings by about $1,300 (compared
with one's sibling), controlling for differences in AFQT score.
Ironically, then, if the effect of education on IQ is within the broad range
we have estimated, The BellCurve's demonstration ofthe importance ofIQ for
social and economic success(in combination with other evidence ofsubstantial
"direct" effects of education) provides evidence for the importance of educational
investment as a policy instrument, quite contrary to the conclusion that
one might reach from reading The Bell Curve.

INTELLIGENCE, GENES, AND SUCCESS
 Scientists Respond to The Bell Curve
 Bernie Devlin
 Stephen E. Fienberg
 Daniel P. Resnick
 Kathryn Roeder 

PS Ljubim samocitate.

sandmodnigga je 4. mar 2016 ob 14:24 izjavil:

Še bonbonček za tiste, ki znate brati:
Tistim, ki so z IQjem na meji z retardiranostjo (tam okrog 80), se da IQ z ustreznim personelom, delom in časom dvigniti na normalen nivo.
Raziskavo lahko poiščem kasneje, če boste seveda pripomogli k argumentirani debati.

Imaš prav, Jure. Pardon.

Ne nasedaj, tole ni jype ampak AnitaTrump/FojboFob ki trola kot _jype_

Nasvet številka 1:
Izogni se Googlovem balončku.

Nasvet številka 2:
Logično sklepaj, o čem teče debata.

Nasvet številka 3:
Trolanje ni izgovor.

AndrejO, če imaš toliko za povedati, imaš kje kake citate. 24ur in podobni ne štejejo.

>>na kakšen nivo? s koliko časa? koliko ljudmi? s koliko risursi?
Iz okrog 80 na 100. 2 leti. En človek. Če me spomin ne vara, nekaj sej na teden.

Šmorn je 4. mar 2016 ob 13:00 izjavil:

Ljudje z višjim IQ dojemajo stvari hitreje kot tisti z nižjim. Vir: osebno mnenje, izkušnje.

ljudje z višjim iq najdejo rešitev, z nižjim se pa rešitev naučijo. osebno mnenje.

Hja,skoz je govora o IQ 80;90;100;...kavem,moj je nekje sobne temperature.
Ko tole prebiram nekaterim priporočam obisk toplih krajev,... nekaterim pa sibirije