Pes ugrizne deklico, mati nahruli lastnico in dobi kazen?

Točno tako. Še cucka bi morali pospraviti, pa bi bilo. Da sploh pridemo do tega, da se karkoli očita otroku. Pri nas so cucki res več vredni od otroko.

Očitno so.

Pa saj nihče (tukaj) ne opravičuje pasjeljubke. Ta je kriva v vsakem primeru. Ne more se zgodit, da ne bi bla.

Prenašanje krivde na mater otroka je točno to. In to eni počnejo. Ti seveda ne, ampak nekateri pa, vključno z lastnico psa.

o+ nevone

Sem "pesoljub". Ampak tukaj ne verjamem lastnici, da je otrok šel izzivat.

Drugo. Tlevizijo sem mel na nemo, ko je Svet predvajal nek prispevek in sem slučajno videl lastnico s psom v stanovanju. Ko je prikazovala kako je privezovala psa ali nekaj takega. Ko sem videl "FLEKS" povodec, se mi je skuštralo. Ne moreš takih mrcin na "FLEKS" vozito okoli. Mrcine v smislu moč in teža psa. Nam se je vtrgala kovinska zatezna ovratnica, ki je bila pocinkana. Ko se je pes v pasji šoli hotel igrati(pes ima 40kg). Samo "malo" je cukno in jo je razpolovilo. O takrat naprej imamo Inox varjanto, ki so bistveno bolje varjene. Povodec 2m "vrv". Skratka neprimerna oprema bi rekel.

Super Sonic je 15. feb 2012 ob 11:40 izjavil:

Ja, s tem nima noben težav in so jasno povedali, da jo je, ni pa dobila kazni za enak prekršek kot razburjena mati, čeprav je bila tudi ona vpletena v prepir (težko se prepiraš sam seboj) in druga stran trdi, da je bila v igri še provokacija. Sodili ji bodo pa za čisto druge kršitve.

Malo obracas po svoje, ne rabi biti prepir, da se pregresis zoper javni red in mir.
Brez tezav fases globo za enostransko vpitje.
Kot drugo je to na matki da prenese policajem. Zdej dejansko isces nepravico v stvari, ob katero se matka sama ni obregnila. Svasta.

Arto> A če bo nek otrok skočil na cesto in ga bo zbil avto, ker starši niso pazili nanj, boš rekel, da so pri nas avtomobili več vredni od otrok?

In če bodo avto zaradi nesreče uničili, bodo potem otroci spet več vredni od avtomobilov, čeprav to ne bo spremenilo ničesar.

lexios> Panična reakcija pa je bila v tem primeru normalen odziv na situacijo, neglede na to ali se je pes hotel igrati, zaščititi ali napasti... Tega mami ne moreš očitat.

Saj ji ne očitam panične reakcije, _vam_ očitam, da je vztrajno zmerjanje, ki traja dlje časa (al karkoli je že blo), še vedno kar normalna reakcija na dogodek in da je policist karkoli storil narobe.

Ne razumem kaj tocno hoces tuki povedat. Da je kazen za matko dokoncna, za lastnico pa visi v zraku?
Prvo ne drzi, ker se lahko pritozi.
Drugo pa drzi, med drugim lahko tudi crkne lastnica jutri pa se izogne vsakrni kazni. Ampak to ne pomeni, da je sistem slab ali krivicen.

Sims je 15. feb 2012 ob 11:51 izjavil:

Drugo. Tlevizijo sem mel na nemo, ko je Svet predvajal nek prispevek in sem slučajno videl lastnico s psom v stanovanju. Ko je prikazovala kako je privezovala psa ali nekaj takega. Ko sem videl "FLEKS" povodec, se mi je skuštralo. Ne moreš takih mrcin na "FLEKS" vozito okoli. Mrcine v smislu moč in teža psa. Nam se je vtrgala kovinska zatezna ovratnica, ki je bila pocinkana. Ko se je pes v pasji šoli hotel igrati(pes ima 40kg). Samo "malo" je cukno in jo je razpolovilo. O takrat naprej imamo Inox varjanto, ki so bistveno bolje varjene. Povodec 2m "vrv". Skratka neprimerna oprema bi rekel.

Pa si videl v kakšnih velikostih vse delajo flexije?

Mogoče veš, za kakšne sile je normirana vrvica, iz katere je flexi povodec? Paracord, ki ima fi samo cca. 4mm lahko drži 300kg brez problema.

Mogoče veš, kako so delane kovinske zatezne ovratnice? Moj pes, brak jazbečar, je strgal kovinsko zatezno ovratnico višjega ranga (ni bila med cenejšimi), s členi iz dobrega 3mm jekla. Masivna zadeva. Zakaj? Zato, ker je bil, pregovorno, v ovratnici en slabo zavarjen člen.

Se mi zdi, da mal nakladaš, tako kot ena kopica folka tule not, ki, kot ponavadi na tem forumu, ne pozna niti enega dejstva o omenjenem dogodku, ampak ve samo to, kar slišijo iz medijev oz. preko "rekla kazala" informiranja, in na podlagi tega potem delajo dokončne sodbe o krivdi enega ali drugega udeleženca in so sposoobni celo deliti moralne nauke ostalim na podlagi tega.

Mehmed je 15. feb 2012 ob 13:06 izjavil:

Ne razumem kaj tocno hoces tuki povedat. Da je kazen za matko dokoncna, za lastnico pa visi v zraku?
Prvo ne drzi, ker se lahko pritozi.
Drugo pa drzi, med drugim lahko tudi crkne lastnica jutri pa se izogne vsakrni kazni. Ampak to ne pomeni, da je sistem slab ali krivicen.

Mehmed, a si ti policaj?

Sistem je slab, ker takoj ne sankcionira lastnice psa in je le ta lahko do obsodbe ali celo dlje prepričana, da ni storila nič narobe, ko je namenoma pustila psa samega brez nadzora na prehodnem javnem prostoru, sama pa zapustila ta prostor. Sistem je imo krivičen, ker tega takoj ne sankcionira, ampak dovoljuje ponovljivost dogodka.

Arto je 15. feb 2012 ob 12:04 izjavil:

Aston_11 je 15. feb 2012 ob 11:39 izjavil:

Očitno so.

A če bo nek otrok skočil na cesto in ga bo zbil avto, ker starši niso pazili nanj, boš rekel, da so pri nas avtomobili več vredni od otrok?

Vklopi si sarkazem detektor, pa ti bo šlo.

Jaz bi cucka zaštihal.

Kaj?

Amputacij prstov je bilo (in bo) v Flexi zgodovini precej. Ima pa Flexi glede tega dolgo opozorilo, ki se začne z:
“To avoid the risk of eye or face injury and cuts, burns, and amputations to your body or the body of another person from the leash cord/tape or all belt and hook, (sic) read and follow these Warnings and Directions for Use before using your Flexi leash.”

Keyser Soze je 15. feb 2012 ob 13:45 izjavil:

Precej bolje kot marsikatera vrvica za pse, ki jo lastniki spustijo ob zategu, ker se jim zareže v dlani ali zapestje (odvisno kako jo uporabljajo)..

Potem jo ocitno uporabljajo narobe. Ce bi jo uporabljali pravilno do tega nebi moglo prit pod nobenim pogojem.

Od kje si se pa ti zdaj vzel?

tukaj sploh ni nič za razmišljati in na dolgo razpravljati, kaj če bi bilo več psov ali pa tak, ki bi lahko ogrozil tudi odraslo osebo kot je bila mati pa le-ta ne bi mogla niti več jezikat in nadirat lastnico

moja hčerka mi je pomembna kot noben do zdaj in ni ji treba skrbeti za nobenega psa, jaz bi verjetno lastnico in psa napadel, vendar bi hčer zgubila zaupanje vame in bi naredil s tem še večjo škodo, samo zaradi živali, ki jo skoz na povodcu nategujejo za vrat

Sem zbrskal post od lastnice psa, postan na 24ur, citiram:
"sprejemam svojo kazn in svojo krivdo do te mere da sm ji kupila nagobčnik in da bom plačala svojo kazn ampak ne bom dovolila da me ena uboga mamica ki nima za wc prikazuje kot neodgovorno....vsak pes je nevaren in ne samo pes moje pasme in še nobenga psa ni napadla tako da mamica vidno hoče odškodnino. Saj ni bilo nič hujšega ampak je bila praska na obrazu katero je še razmazovala s krvjo da bi zgledalo hujše.. mene je tud ugriznil pes ( nemški ovčar) pa nisem take scene naredila pa sem bila tud še otrok. Pa še to otrok v šoku je smokije? Prej sem jo prosila da naj tega ne počne in so jo naslednič spet poslali mimo lulat - pa kdo se potem dela norca?.
Prej sem bila neumna ko sem jo lepo prosila in če kdo ni sojaliziran in normalen je ona saj je vsakič dvignila glas nad menoj.
PIšite kar želite samo nekateri imamo vsaj v glavi pošlihtano in tega ne bi nikoli počeli."

Zanimivo.

Brez tezav fases globo za enostransko vpitje.

Ja, če je tvoj otrok napaden s strani psa, pa sploh, a ne?

Kot drugo je to na matki da prenese policajem. Zdej dejansko isces nepravico v stvari, ob katero se matka sama ni obregnila.

Smo že povedal n-krat, kaj je mama priznala in v kaj se obregnila. V to, da je edina v prepiru dobila kazen, se zagotovo je.

Da bi morale obe biti kaznovane?

Je če gre za javni prepir in policaj pride šele po dogodku in ima ob sebi nekaj prič, zabije pa kazen samo žrtvi, zna bit problem. Ampak ne se sekirat, ti tega ne boš pogruntal še en lep čas ne, zakaj se gre.

Super Sonic, citira> prikazuje kot neodgovorno

Mislim, da se je že sama prikazala kot neodgovorno, ko je pustila terierja na štriku pred štacuno:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/2183/218... :

It was a comfortable little restaurant, where they cooked well, while the Tischwein was really most passable. We stopped there for a couple of hours, and dried ourselves and fed ourselves, and talked about the view; and just before we left an incident occurred that shows how much more stirring in this world are the influences of evil compared with those of good.

A traveller entered. He seemed a careworn man. He carried a brick in his hand, tied to a piece of rope. He entered nervously and hurriedly, closed the door carefully behind him, saw to it that it was fastened, peered out of the window long and earnestly, and then, with a sigh of relief, laid his brick upon the bench beside him and called for food and drink.

There was something mysterious about the whole affair. One wondered what he was going to do with the brick, why he had closed the door so carefully, why he had looked so anxiously from the window; but his aspect was too wretched to invite conversation, and we forbore, therefore, to ask him questions. As he ate and drank he grew more cheerful, sighed less often. Later he stretched his legs, lit an evil-smelling cigar, and puffed in calm contentment.

Then it happened. It happened too suddenly for any detailed explanation of the thing to be possible. I recollect a Fr?ulein entering the room from the kitchen with a pan in her hand. I saw her cross to the outer door. The next moment the whole room was in an uproar. One was reminded of those pantomime transformation scenes where, from among floating clouds, slow music, waving flowers, and reclining fairies, one is suddenly transported into the midst of shouting policemen tumbling yelling babies, swells fighting pantaloons, sausages and harlequins, buttered slides and clowns. As the Fr?ulein of the pan touched the door it flew open, as though all the spirits of sin had been pressed against it, waiting. Two pigs and a chicken rushed into the room; a cat that had been sleeping on a beer-barrel spluttered into fiery life. The Fr?ulein threw her pan into the air and lay down on the floor. The gentleman with the brick sprang to his feet, upsetting the table before him with everything upon it.

One looked to see the cause of this disaster: one discovered it at once in the person of a mongrel terrier with pointed ears and a squirrel's tail. The landlord rushed out from another door, and attempted to kick him out of the room. Instead, he kicked one of the pigs, the fatter of the two. It was a vigorous, well-planted kick, and the pig got the whole of it; none of it was wasted. One felt sorry for the poor animal; but no amount of sorrow anyone else might feel for him could compare with the sorrow he felt for himself. He stopped running about; he sat down in the middle of the room, and appealed to the solar system generally to observe this unjust thing that had come upon him. They must have heard his complaint in the valleys round about, and have wondered what upheaval of nature was taking place among the hills.

As for the hen it scuttled, screaming, every way at once. It was a marvellous bird: it seemed to be able to run up a straight wall quite easily; and it and the cat between them fetched down mostly everything that was not already on the floor. In less than forty seconds there were nine people in that room, all trying to kick one dog. Possibly, now and again, one or another may have succeeded, for occasionally the dog would stop barking in order to howl. But it did not discourage him. Everything has to be paid for, he evidently argued, even a pig and chicken hunt; and, on the whole, the game was worth it.

Besides, he had the satisfaction of observing that, for every kick he received, most other living things in the room got two. As for the unfortunate pig--the stationary one, the one that still sat lamenting in the centre of the room--he must have averaged a steady four. Trying to kick this dog was like playing football with a ball that was never there--not when you went to kick it, but after you had started to kick it, and had gone too far to stop yourself, so that the kick had to go on in any case, your only hope being that your foot would find something or another solid to stop it, and so save you from sitting down on the floor noisily and completely. When anybody did kick the dog it was by pure accident, when they were not expecting to kick him; and, generally speaking, this took them so unawares that, after kicking him, they fell over him. And everybody, every half-minute, would be certain to fall over the pig the sitting pig, the one incapable of getting out of anybody's way.

How long the scrimmage might have lasted it is impossible to say. It was ended by the judgment of George. For a while he had been seeking to catch, not the dog but the remaining pig, the one still capable of activity. Cornering it at last, he persuaded it to cease running round and round the room, and instead to take a spin outside. It shot through the door with one long wail.

We always desire the thing we have not. One pig, a chicken, nine people, and a cat, were as nothing in that dog's opinion compared with the quarry that was disappearing. Unwisely, he darted after it, and George closed the door upon him and shot the bolt.

Then the landlord stood up, and surveyed all the things that were lying on the floor.

"That's a playful dog of yours," said he to the man who had come in with the brick.

"He is not my dog," replied the man sullenly.

"Whose dog is it then?" said the landlord.

"I don't know whose dog it is," answered the man.

"That won't do for me, you know," said the landlord, picking up a picture of the German Emperor, and wiping beer from it with his sleeve.

"I know it won't," replied the man; "I never expected it would. I'm tired of telling people it isn't my dog. They none of them believe me."

"What do you want to go about with him for, if he's not your dog?" said the landlord. "What's the attraction about him?"

"I don't go about with him," replied the man; "he goes about with me. He picked me up this morning at ten o'clock, and he won't leave me. I thought I had got rid of him when I came in here. I left him busy killing a duck more than a quarter of an hour away. I'll have to pay for that, I expect, on my way back."

"Have you tried throwing stones at him?" asked Harris.

"Have I tried throwing stones at him!" replied the man, contemptuously. "I've been throwing stones at him till my arm aches with throwing stones; and he thinks it's a game, and brings them back to me. I've been carrying this beastly brick about with me for over an hour, in the hope of being able to drown him, but he never comes near enough for me to get hold of him. He just sits six inches out of reach with his mouth open, and looks at me."

"It's the funniest story I've heard for a long while," said the landlord.

"Glad it amuses somebody," said the man.

We left him helping the landlord to pick up the broken things, and went our way. A dozen yards outside the door the faithful animal was waiting for his friend. He looked tired, but contented. He was evidently a dog of strange and sudden fancies, and we feared for the moment lest he might take a liking to us. But he let us pass with indifference. His loyalty to this unresponsive man was touching; and we made no attempt to undermine it.

Mislim, da se je že sama prikazala kot neodgovorno, ko je pustila terierja na štriku pred štacuno:

Sej je ful lepa knjigica (pa še zastonj je), ampak mislim, da nismo v temi, kjer bi ugotavljal kdo je neodgovoren. Ker če smo že ravno pri tem, če jaz prav razumem zgodbo, je mama peljala tamalo lulat sred dneva zadaj za trgovino in to mimo psa, kjer ji bilo že prej rečeno, vsaj tako lastnica psa, da naj tam ne hodi.

Kar v bistvu pokaže le na to, da je bil prepir med obema precej pikanten in vroč.

Stekam cist dobro sonic

Ne, ne razumeš. Ne razumeš kako je biti starš, kaj je starševska ljubezen, kaj pomeni imeti odgovornost vzgoje otroka na sebi in kako je če do česa takšnega pride. Verjetnost, da boš ob tem dogodku vpil in kalil javni red in mir, je precej visoka. Ne zato, ker si neka nevzgojena opica, ampak zato, ker pride do šoka, povečanja adrenalina in afekta. Če te pri tem vzpodbuja ena jezikava 20 letna najstnica, je še toliko težje. In to je nekaj čisto normalnega, povprečnega.

In v gostilniski debati ti tudi zlahka pritrdim, da si lastnica zasluzi se kaj hujsega.

Vse izven sodišča, je načeloma gostilniška debata in kot sem že večkrat rekel, tu se predvsem pogovarjamo, ne sodimo in prav je, da se pogovarjamo.

Ne mores pa ravnanja policajev presojat po teh merilih. Njih omejujejo zakoni, postopki in ostalo sranje.

Sej lepo, da jih, ampak ti bo policija oz. njen predstavnik povedal, da skušajo policaji na terenu večkrat z alternativnimi prijemi v dobro državljanov in da ne gredo vedno po črtici zakona, ravno zaradi nesmislov. In tole en tak tipičen primer tega.

Policaj tm je verjetno najbolj informiran, ojbektiven, pa se zakon ga zavezuje. In folk se kr privzeto smatra da se je zmotil.

Zakaj privzeto smatra, da se je zmotil? Zato, ker to ni običajno. Jaz sem prepričan, da če bi šel gledat zgodovino podobnih napadov, bi težko našel primer, kjer je bila žrtev napada kaznovana za kršenje javnega reda in miru.

In predvsem, kaj potem če je slučajno policaj zmotil? A sedaj naj pa takoj damo moč ulici in ne vem še komu vse? A je treba noro insistirat na žrtvi, da je res pod kritiko, da se je šla dret po dogodku? A je treba, da sporočat okoli "ej, dejte bil mal bolj hladni vi balkanci zarukani". Ne, življenje gre naprej in napake so sestavni del njega, realni pogled na stvar ti da pa jasno sliko.

In spet pridemo do posta od uporabnika W1, ki je lepo izpostavil srž problema.

Ne morm te resno jemat dokler pravis matki zrtev. Tudi ne vidim nekega smisla v debati, ce si tako ocitno opredeljen glede krivde ze pred njo.

ne sekiraj se Super sonic, eni govorijo samo da provocirajo, vsi pa dobro vemo kaj je prav in kaj ni, zakoni pa so pač luknjasti ali pa dvoumni in predvsem vsak si jih po svoje razlaga

se spomnim enega primera, ko je ena ženska brez ene roke čist popiz... ko je zelo vztrajen policaj pisal kazen, ker ni imela vsaj ene roke na volanu pri vožnji pa čeprav bi ji lahko popustil, je vseeno vztrajal za svoj ego, da ga ne zamari

Ko berem zgornje debate, se mi kar po socializmu stoži....Tedaj je bil miličnik zakon, čeprav so ga tudi mimo sekali, je bil red. Upam, da pride čas, ko bodo rumene medije prepovedali z zakonom. Samo drek mešajo v cilju večjih zaslužkov, glupi folk pa naseda.

lexios je 15. feb 2012 ob 12:40 izjavil:

jst sem ga, nisem siguren pa če si ti moj post:

Mami in deklici ni potrebno imet o psih povsem nikakršnega znanja, ti kot lastnik ali strokovnjak ga seveda moraš imeti in za svojega psa tudi primerno poskrbeti! Glede tega se najbrž strinjava. Panična reakcija pa je bila v tem primeru normalen odziv na situacijo, neglede na to ali se je pes hotel igrati, zaščititi ali napasti... Tega mami ne moreš očitat.

Lexios, nič ne očitam mami in prav je da dobi lastnica psa kazen. Sem samo opisal, kaj je lahko razlog za ugriz psa. In malo sem opisal pasmo, za katero vsi trdite, da je krvoločna in nevarna, pa nevem kaj.

Kar se pa tiče mojih psov. Moja psa sta vedno na vrvici in sicer 8m dolg flex, ter stalno pod nadzorom. Spuščena sta samo doma (v domačem pesjaku z dvometrsko ograjo in v velikosti 9m X 10m) in v nadzorovanem okolju (na poligonu pasje šole). Drugje nista nikoli spuščena. Pa nista nevarne pasme in imata oba skupaj 40kg. Pač se držimo tega, da lahko pes komu kaj naredi in je brez veze izzivat. (pa nikoli še nista bila pred trgovino zavezana na drog). Ko pa recimo vidim, da bi kak otrok prišel rad do "kužka z lepimi plavimi očki", primem psa za ovratnico (ne za štrik, ampak prav za ovratnico, da imam dober oprijem), se pripravim na to, če bi mogoče pes skočil ali se postavil na zadnje tace (da ga lahko blokiram) in otroka šele takrat spustim zraven. Pa je pes do sedaj še vedno bil miren, in največ kar je bilo je s tačko, ki jo je ponujal otroku (gimme 5), umazal jakno.

Čisto drug primer je bila pa šolana rotveilka, ki pa nikoli ni bila na štriku ali povodcu. Ampak je bilo šole toliko, da se je dalo to doseči. Tam jo je pa otrok lahko vlekel za ušesa ali pa hodil po njej, pa se ni premaknila brez ukaza.