Vaje za "six pack"

Ne, namesto da bi svetoval pameten režim treninga in jedilnik, mu iz prve ponudiš substance, katere so škodljive za zdravje in zaradi tega prepovedane za prosto prodajo. Ok, slovenski predpisi glede "koncentracije" nekaterih prehranskih dopolnil so res bolj papeški od papeža a CLEN,T3, efedrin pa so prekleto nevarne zadeve.

Seveda pa začetnik prebere en tak post kot je tvoj in si nabavi "zadeve", nato pa pride do posledic. Seveda k vsemu skupaj pripomorejo še razni dilerčki kateri velika ciljna skupina so ravno tisti kateri želijo v dveh dneh biti kot z naslovnice MEnshealtha. Zraven pa tista njihova klasična : "saj te zadeve pa niso škodljive, če jih pa dohtarji nucajo ".


Čista kmečka logika, vemo da je večina vseh prepovedanih substanc dejasnko zdravilo , potem seveda če smo zdravi zakaj bi jemali zdravila ?


In ja ne boš verjel, sem v okolju z takimi osebki, še več kot bi si včasih želel. Mi je pa to druženje dalo lep vpogled v sceno uporabe substanc.


Pri 185 višini in teži 81-82 delujem večini ljudi suh , in nenehno dobivam vprašanja zakaj ne delam na masi....torej če že greva to igrico tudi po merilih drugih nisem fatso...


Filozofija saxon/hackensmiht pa me prav lepo pelje čez življenje....

@_IKE_: 185cm in 82kg. Mislim da ne razumeš čist, 6pack niso rebra
Kaj sploh pametnuješ pol v tej temi.

jype je 18. feb 2012 ob 21:37 izjavil:

kbal> 6pack niso rebra

Mislim, da ti ne razumeš - 6pack ni švarci ampak stenmark.

Razumem, 6pack ni jype.

jype je 18. feb 2012 ob 21:56 izjavil:

To zagotovo - jaz nisem s tvojega planeta.

Amen to that.

Najprej sem fat

Mr Hilter je 18. feb 2012 ob 19:52 izjavil:

@_IKE_: Kar sem napisal 100% drži.
Nekateri ne živimo v utvari, da je mogoče ''Hollywoodske sixpacke'' dosegati s 5 minut abtronica na dan. Po temu avtor teme tudi sprašuje.
Zakaj bi človeku lagal in ga pošiljal v trgovino s športno prehrano po fat burnerje, ko lahko pije kavo in pa zelen čaj s cimetom, na zrezek da čili, kajenski poper... in mu pričal da res ni treba zelo paziti na prehrano, samo mkčiknov naj se pred trenigom izogiba. Ravno zato ker je tako preprosto vidiš lahko vsako leto točno 0 6packov na plaži.

Življenje ni naslovnica na reviji (Menshealth, Moja žena...) in če nisi v okolju z zdefiniranimi fanti in puncami, lahko samo tako kot ti trobiš o teorijah in pravljicah ketonske diete, škodljivosti in nevarnosti raznoraznih substanc.

Stay fat and ignorant my friend, real world would kill you.

in nato skinny

Mr Hilter je 18. feb 2012 ob 21:21 izjavil:

@_IKE_: 185cm in 82kg. Mislim da ne razumeš čist, 6pack niso rebra
Kaj sploh pametnuješ pol v tej temi.

Torej kaj?

Zanimivo ...."pametujem" s tem ko ostalim uporabnikom malce opišem tvojo "bližnjico" do six packa oz hujšanja.....

Sem pa podobno reakcijo pričakoval, je precej standard issue za recimo temu GALENIKA sceno ...

kbal> To drži. Ko jaz 200 kil spustim na tla, je dosti bolj drastično kot pa ko ti padeš s kolesa.

Dokler si čevljev ne moreš zavezat, ti bolj malo pomaga dvesto kil metat po tleh.

kbal> izrezan izgled.

Who the fuck cares? Pomembno je, da si zdrav in se dobro počutiš. Izgled je za intelektualne hendikepirance.

Garantiram, da ni jedel nobenih prehranskih dodatkov, pa lahko v krogih laufa okol vsakega, ki "po tleh meče dvesto kil":

jype je 18. feb 2012 ob 23:34 izjavil:

kbal> To drži. Ko jaz 200 kil spustim na tla, je dosti bolj drastično kot pa ko ti padeš s kolesa.

Dokler si čevljev ne moreš zavezat, ti bolj malo pomaga dvesto kil metat po tleh.

kbal> izrezan izgled.

Who the fuck cares? Pomembno je, da si zdrav in se dobro počutiš. Izgled je za intelektualne hendikepirance.

Kaj pa če si zdrav in se dobro počutiš v izklesanem telesu? Ne zaradi drugih ampak zaradi sebe iz različnih razlogov. Si avtomatsko intelektualno hendikepiran? Etiketiras :)

Tale še vedel ni, kaj so to beljakovine:-)

jype je 18. feb 2012 ob 23:46 izjavil:

Lion29> @jure: what's your point?

Da je nalivanje s praški dolgoročno bolj škodljivo kot koristno, čeprav prinese željen izgled (in da obstaja tudi zdrav način).

khm, what? zakaj?

ce govoris o pretiravanju, pol se seveda strinjam. vsako pretiravanje je nezdravo

ce pa bi moral na dan zauziti 3.000-5.000 kalorij (ker jih pac tolko skuris)... potem pa je def. bolj zdravo (na dolgi rok) jesti skoraj ciste (sirotkine) beljakovine kot pa kako kilo mesa na dan, ki i ma v sebi definitivno vec skodljivih snovi...

iz fizola in drugih zivil pa dobis premalo vsebnost beljakovin ....

da o OH niti ne govorimo

se pa popolnoma strinjam, vse se da tudi po "naravni" poti dosec, a def. manj zdravo, in bolj drago

IcEk`> Nalivanje s praški je le bližnjica do rezultata.

Ja. Veliko pametneje je do rezultata priti z zdravo, normalno uravnoteženo prehrano in zdravo, uravnoteženo vadbo.

Lion29> ce pa bi moral na dan zauziti 3.000-5.000 kalorij (ker jih pac tolko skuris)... potem pa je def. bolj zdravo (na dolgi rok) jesti skoraj ciste (sirotkine) beljakovine kot pa kako kilo mesa na dan, ki i ma v sebi definitivno vec skodljivih snovi...

Ja, ampak ne rabiš niti toliko pojest, niti toliko skurit. Če to počneš, potem očitno odpadeta čips in pivo ob fuzbalski tekmi na televizorju, zato bi bilo bolje, da bi počel reči, ki so še manjše pretiravanje.

Lion29> iz fizola in drugih zivil pa dobis premalo vsebnost beljakovin ....

Jaz temu ne verjamem niti od daleč.

Lion29> se pa popolnoma strinjam, vse se da tudi po "naravni" poti dosec, a def. manj zdravo, in bolj drago

Tudi s tem se ne morem strinjat. Če bi rad žrl packarijo večino leta, potem pa tik pred poletjem na hitro pridobil postavo, ki naj bi zanimala dekleta, potem seveda ne moreš tega storiti zgolj z zdravo prehrano, temveč potrebuješ pospeševalce.

Če pa vsak dan ješ normalno, zdravo hrano (veliko žit in zelenjave, nekaj stročnic, malo mesa ter vodo) pa lep, poleg tega da si zdrav, ostaneš vse leto, hkrati pa imaš veliko lažje vadbo uravnoteženo med rečmi za srce in rečmi za moč.

Recimo za taksno postavo je potrebno kaksno leto ali dve (prej 2 kot 1) urejene prehrane in kvalitetnega treninga. To se doseze komot brez steroidov in ostalega sranja. Pa se komot prepognes in si zavezes cevlje. :) Je pa potrebno zauzit kar nekaj beljakovin in whey je tukaj zelo dobrodošel. Tezko si predstavljam, da bi s fizolom dosegel taksen rezultat. :)

Daj poišči par študij (magari skopiraj samo povzetke) o škodljivosti visokega vnosa beljakovin, jaz pa bom skopiral par povzetkov študij o neškodljivosti pa da vidimo.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/87/5/1562S.... (prvi link)

Iz abstracta: "There is little evidence that links high protein intakes to increased risk for impaired kidney function in healthy individuals. However, renal function decreases with age, and high protein intake is contraindicated in individuals with renal disease."

Linka sicer nimam, je pa povzetek:

Dietary protein intake and renal function
William F Martin* 1 , Lawrence E Armstrong* 2 and Nancy R Rodriguez* 1
1Department of Nutritional Sciences, University of Connecticut, Storrs, CT, USA
2Department of Kinesiology, University of Connecticut, Storrs, CT, USA

Nutrition & Metabolism 2005, 2:25 doi:10.1186/1743-7075-2-25

Published 20 September 2005


Abstract


Recent trends in weight loss diets have led to a substantial increase in protein intake by individuals. As a result, the safety of habitually consuming dietary protein in excess of recommended intakes has been questioned. In particular, there is concern that high protein intake may promote renal damage by chronically increasing glomerular pressure and hyperfiltration. There is, however, a serious question as to whether there is significant evidence to support this relationship in healthy individuals. In fact, some studies suggest that hyperfiltration, the purported mechanism for renal damage, is a normal adaptative mechanism that occurs in response to several physiological conditions. This paper reviews the available evidence that increased dietary protein intake is a health concern in terms of the potential to initiate or promote renal disease. While protein restriction may be appropriate for treatment of existing kidney disease, we find no significant evidence for a detrimental effect of high protein intakes on kidney function in healthy persons after centuries of a high protein Western diet.



Študije whey in proteini ter starejši ljudje:

1) Whey proteins potential to increase protein synthesis in the elderly

Differential stimulation of muscle protein synthesis in elderly humans following isocaloric ingestion of amino acids or whey protein.Amino acids and whey protein increase protein synthesis in the elderly. Increase in lean body mass through increase protein synthesis.
This study investigated the effects of amino acids and whey protein on muscle synthesis in elderly individuals. Net muscle protein synthesis in healthy elderly individuals (65-79 years) was measured following ingestion of a whey protein supplement or an essential amino acid supplement. Both the essential amino acid and whey protein supplements stimulated muscle protein synthesis.

Conclusion: Essential amino acids and whey protein are equally effective in stimulating muscle protein synthesis in elderly individuals.

Paddon-Jones, D., et al. Differential stimulation of muscle protein synthesis in elderly humans following isocaloric ingestion of amino acids or whey protein. Experimental Gerontology. Vol. 42(2), pp. 215-219. 2005.

2) Whey protein works on the molecular level (DNA)

Whey protein supplementation and resistance training to enhance muscle growth in young and older adults.Whey protein stimulates muscle building genes.
25g of whey isolate post strength training stimulates protein synthesis through translation initiation factor. Whey protein isolate supplementation increase significantly strength after training (25% greater than control group) in young, but not in older adults. Older participants consuming the whey protein isolate demonstrated a greater phosphorylation of the translational factor p70-S6K1(DNA signaling) after 12 weeks training (2.9 fold increase), when compared to the control group. This effect was not observed in the young groups.
Following resistance training adults who took whey protein isolate showed a 17.3 fold increase in Pax7 gene (a marker of satellite activation) compared to 2.6 fold increase in the control group post training. Only a small increase in Pax7 gene expression was observed in the young groups, with a 2.6 fold increase in the protein group and 1.9 fold increase in the placebo group.

Conclusion: These findings provide molecular evidence of enhanced activation of genetic factors related to muscle growth when whey protein intake and chronic resistance training are combined in older individuals.

Farnfield MM, et al. Whey protein supplementation and resistance training to enhance muscle growth in young and older adults. Asia Pac. Jour. of Clin. Nutr. Vol 14. Supp. S69. 2005.

3) Whey protein increase net protein gain

The rate of protein digestion affects protein gain differently during aging in humans.
Whey protein digests faster than casein. Faster digestion gives rise to a quicker amino acid flood into muscle cells. Whey protein is the preferred protein for net protein gain
In young men ingesting protein meals, slowly digested proteins (caseins: CAS) induce a higher protein gain than those that are rapidly digested (whey proteins: WP). Our aim was to assess whether or not this is true in elderly men receiving mixed meals. The effects of meals containing either CAS or two different amounts of WP (WP-iN: isonitrogenous with CAS, or WP-iL: providing the same amount of leucine as CAS) on protein metabolism (assessed by combining oral and intravenous leucine tracers) were compared in nine healthy, elderly (mean ± S.E.M. age 72 ± 1 years) and six young men (24 ± 1 years).In both age groups, WP-iL and WP-iN were digested faster than CAS (P < 0.001, ANOVA). Proteolysis was inhibited similarly whatever the meal and age groups (P = NS). Protein synthesis was higher with WP-iN than with CAS or WP-iL (P < 0.01), regardless of age (P = NS). An age-related effect (P < 0.05) was found with postprandial leucine balance. Leucine balance was higher with CAS than with WP-iL (P < 0.01) in young men, but not in elderly subjects (P = NS).
In isonitrogenous conditions, leucine balance was higher with WP-iN than with CAS (P < 0.001) in both age groups, but the magnitude of the differences was higher in the elderly men (P = 0.05).
In conclusion, during aging, protein gain was greater with WP (rapidly digested protein), and lower with CAS (slowly digested protein). This suggests that a 'fast' protein might be more beneficial than a 'slow' one to limit protein losses during aging.

Dangin, M., et al. The rate of digestion affects protein gain differently during aging in humans. The Jour. of Physiol. 2003.

4) Dietary Protein and Resistance Training Effect on Muscle Body Composition in Older Persons

Adequate intake of protein combats sarcopenia. Resistance training helps older people gain muscle, hypertrophy muscle, and increase whole body fat-free mass.
Adequate intake of protein and resistance exercise synergistically can reduce sarcopenia.
The regular performance of resistance exercises and the habitual ingestion of adequate amounts of dietary protein from high-quality sources are two important ways for older persons to slow the progression of and treat sarcopenia, the age-related loss of skeletal muscle mass and function. Resistance training can help older people gain muscle strength, hypertrophy muscle, and increase whole body fat-free mass. It can also help frail elderly people improve balance and physical functioning capabilities.Inadequate protein intake will cause adverse metabolic and physiological accommodation responses that include the loss of fat-free mass and muscle strength and size. Findings from controlled feeding studies show that older persons retain the capacity to metabolically adjust to lower protein intakes by increasing the efficiency of nitrogen retention and amino acid utilization. However, they also suggest that the recommended dietary allowance of 0.8 g protein _ kg_1 _ d_1 might not be sufficient to prevent subtle accommodations and blunt desired changes in body composition and muscle size with resistance training.

Conclusion: Most of the limited research suggests that resistance training-induced improvements in body composition, muscle strength and size, and physical functioning are not enhanced when older people who habitually consume adequate protein (modestly above the RDA) increase their protein intake by either increasing the ingestion of higher-protein foods or consuming protein-enriched nutritional supplements.

Campbell, Wayne W. Dietary Protein and Resistance Training on Muscle and Body Composition in Older Persons. Journ. Amer. Coll. Nutr. Vol. 26, No. 6, pp. 696S-703S. 2007.

5) Resistance training and dietary protein: effects on glucose tolerance and contents of skeletal muscle insulin signaling proteins in older persons.

Resistance training and moderate to high protein intake increases whole body protein. Fat mass decreases with low protein and high protein intakes. Resistance training improved oral glucose tolerance. Background: Resistance training (RT) and dietary protein independently influence indexes of whole-body glucose control, though their synergistic effects have not yet been documented.Objective: This study assessed the influence of dietary protein intake on RT-induced changes in systemic glucose tolerance and the contents of skeletal muscle insulin signaling proteins in healthy older persons. Design: Thirty-six older men and women (age: 61 ± 1 y) performed RT (3 times/wk for 12 wk) and consumed either 0.9 g protein · kg–1 · d–1 [lower-protein (LP) group; 112% of the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA)] or 1.2 g protein · kg–1 · d–1 [higher-protein (HP) group; 150% of the RDA]; the HP group consumed more total, egg, and dairy proteins.Results: After RT, body weight was unchanged; whole-body protein and water masses increased, and fat mass decreased with no significantly different responses observed between the LP and HP groups. The RT-induced improvement in oral glucose tolerance (decreased area under the curve, AUC) was not significantly different between the groups (LP: –28%; HP: –25%). The insulin (–21%) and C-peptide (–14%) AUCs decreased in the LP group but did not change significantly in the HP group. Skeletal muscle insulin receptor, insulin receptor substrate-1, and Akt contents were unchanged, and the amount of atypical protein kinase C / (aPKC / ), a protein involved with insulin signaling, increased 56% with RT, independent of protein intake.

Conclusion: These results support the hypothesis that older persons who consume adequate or moderately high amounts of dietary protein can use RT to improve body composition, oral glucose tolerance, and skeletal muscle aPKC / content without a change in body weight.

Iglay, Heidi B, et al. Resistance training and dietary protein: effects on glucose tolerance and contents of skeletal muscle insulin signaling proteins in older persons. Amer. Jour. Clin. Nutr. Vol. 85, No. 4, pp. 1005-1013. 2007.

6) Post-exercise protein intake in vital following resistance training in the elderly

Timing of postexercise protein intake is important for muscle hypertrophy with resistance training in elderly humans.Resistance training can counteract age muscle loss.
Protein synthesis is influence synergistically by postexercise amino acid supplementation.
Early intake after resistance training is important for the development of hypertrophy in skeletal muscle of elderly men. Age-associated loss of skeletal muscle mass (sarcopenia) and strength can be partly combated by resistance training, causing a net protein synthesis. Protein synthesis is influenced synergistically by postexercise amino acid supplementation, but the importance of the timing of protein intake remains unresolved.The study investigated the importance of immediate (P0) or delayed (P2) intake of an oral protein supplement upon muscle hypertrophy and strength over a period of resistance training in elderly males.
Thirteen men (age, 74 ± 1 years; body mass index (BMI), 25) completed a 12 week resistance training program (3 times per week) receiving oral protein in liquid form (10 g protein, 7 g carbohydrate, 3 g fat) immediately after (P0) or 2 h after (P2) each training session. Muscle hypertrophy was evaluated by magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) and from muscle biopsies and muscle strength was determined using dynamic and iso-kinetic strength measurements.
Body composition was determined from dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry (DEXA) and food records were obtained over 4 days. The plasma insulin response to protein supplementation was also determined.In response to training, the cross-sectional area of m. quadriceps femoris (54.6 ± 0.5 to 58.3 ± 0.5 cm2) and mean fiber area (4047 ± 320 to 5019 ± 615 µm2) increased in the P0 group, whereas no significant increase was observed in P2. For P0 both dynamic and iso-kinetic strength increased, by 46 and 15 %, respectively (P < 0.05), whereas P2 only improved in dynamic strength, by 36 % (P < 0.05). No differences in glucose or insulin response were observed between protein intake at 0 and 2 h postexercise.

Conclusion: Early intake of a protein supplement after resistance training is important for the development of hypertrophy in skeletal muscle of elderly men in response to resistance training.

Esmarck, B. et al. Timing of postexercise protein intake is important for muscle hypertrophy with resistance training in elderly humans. Jour. of Physiology. Vol. 535.1, pp. 301-311. 2001.

Ja, popravljen vrjetno res. Ampak masa je. Niso ga narisali.

Sej razumeš point.

Zakaj bi rabil klop za 150€, če pa sklece obremenjujejo točno iste mišice? Ko ti je telesna masa premalo, si nase navesiš uteži.

batista bomb je 19. feb 2012 ob 11:17 izjavil:

Da ne bom odpiral nove teme me zanima kateri bench mi priporočate za domačo uporabo? Max do 150€

Poglej za rabljeno.

Par let nazaj je bilo najceneje tu:
http://fitnes-oprema.com/index.php/cPat...

Samo potem prištej še težo za štango in uteži... Pomoje je bolje hoditi na fitnes.

IcEk`> ...

Študije, ki ugotavljajo, da "dokler si zdrav, lahko poješ kolikor hočeš beljakovin", so absurdne.

Ja, točno to je moj point - da pretiravanje z beljakovinami ne more biti zdravo, če ni škodljivo zgolj dokler si zdrav. _Vse_ je neškodljivo, dokler si zdrav.

Pa tudi to, da pretiravanje z beljakovinami ni potrebno niti za dobro zgledat, niti za dobro počutje.

Borovnice in hruške ne povzročajo putike.

_Enterprise_> whey je kvečjemu zdrav in je najboljši način za vnos potrebnih beljakovin, če redno treniraš. in par meric wheya na dan ni pretiravanje

Edini pameten odgovor na to je lahko razlika med populacijo ljudi, ki vsi zaužijejo "par meric wheya na dan" v primerjavi z ljudmi, ki tega ne počnejo, fizične napore in siceršnjo prehrano pa imajo zelo podobne.

Sem prepričan, da je razlika (v krvni sliki, srčnemu utripu, krvnem pritisku in kapaciteti metabolizma) precej neintuitivna, predvsem na podlagi tega, kakšna je bila prehrana v preteklosti, kakšni rezultati so se dosegali in kakšna je bila življenska dobra in zdravje takratnih vrhunskih športnikov (govorimo o 30 let nazaj, ne o 300).

Jasno, da bo razlika v mišični masi, seveda pa bo razlika tudi v drugih indikatorjih.

Manj mišične mase je, vsaj glede na meni dostopne podatke, dolgoročno precej bolj zdravo.

Eventuelno boste lahko kupili knjigo.

In še.

Low relative skeletal muscle mass (sarcopenia) in older persons is associated with functional impairment and physical disability.