So našli ATLANTIDO ali ne?

Po zadnjih podatkih naj bi se najbol iskana celina nahajala na južnem polu pod ledom.
Američani so pod ledom našli celino, katera naj bi bila nekoč med Ameriko in Afriko in se je zaradi tektonskih premikov premaknila na južni pol.
LP
Nebivedu

Trenutno ne. To sem prebral v eni angleški reviji k jo je kolega prnesu iz Anglije.
LP
Nebivedu

Atlantida je bullshit. 100%.

Tudi ta "racionalizacija" je čisti bulšit.

Ja rekli so ja. Ampak to enostavno NI res.

Res je edino, da so mnogi predpostavljali Terro icognito, Terro Australis itd - zaradi "ravnotežja" Zemlje.

Imeli so srečo in uganili. Tiste, ki so mislili, da tam ni nič - so pozabili.

Thomas: pa se ti zavedas da zvenis ko cerkev leta 1500? Ni tega, ni onega, to je bullshit...
Vcasih je bolje molcati btw ti je ze kdo to rekel?

Pred nekaj časa je bila ena dost dobra oddaja na SLO2 o Atlantidi, ko so spraševali znanstvenike, arheologe, antoropologe, ..., kaj si mislijo o tem. Odgovori so bili v stilu "bullshit", "garbage" ...

Pol so bla pa dejstva. Besedo "Atlantida" je "izumil" Platonl nikoli prej jo niso našli omenjeno pri kašni stari kulturi, ali vsaj kaj takega, kar bi spomnjalo nanjo. Pojem je vnesel v rabo en tip iz 19. stoletja, ko je bila arheologija še v povojih in so bile piramide (Egiptovske in Majevske) in vse to še zelo "mysterious".
Pozneje so našli npr. Zlomljeno piramido v Egiptu, neuspel poskus izgradnje piramide, ko so se še učili. Zakaj so povsod gradili piramide? Če so hoteli narediti kaj večjega, glede na to da niso poznali niti oboka, kaj šele kupolo, je bila to edina možna oblika.
Glede slikovne pisave - na pogled že zgledajo podobne, ampak npr. egiptovski hieroglifi nimajo nič skupnega/podobnega z majevsko pisavo ...
Kar pa se tiče poljedelstva, so na Bližnjem vzhodu začeli saditi žita zaradi lakote, v srednji Ameriki pa buče za prenašanje vode!

Besedo "Atlantida" danes uporablja samo še folk, ki preveč gleda razne pustolovske filme a la Indiana Jones.

za tiste, ki jih zanima http://miha77.tripod.com/atlantida/

lp,
Alec999

DEJSTVA:

Piramide so replika ozvezdja Orion. Vkljucno z okoliskimi zvezdami in mlecno cesto. Na stopinjo natancno. Tri najvecje piramide v Egiptu so skoraj v premici. mnogo let so pljuvali to nenatancnost. Nato BUM po glavi. Ne samo da so natancne na stopinjo celo predstavlajo ozvezdje. Piramide so povsod po svetu. J Amerka, Azija, Afrika. Povsod predstavljajo NATANCNO astronomsko repliko.
To je sprejeto znanstveno dejstvo.

Sama oblika piramid je fenomen zase. Nagib, volumen, pozicija, sama masovnost. NE znamo jih replicirati z danasnjo tehnologijo. V J Ameriki najdemo cel sklop piramid in stavb okoli, ki predstavljajo planete in oddaljenost le njih do sonca. POPOLNOMA natancno. Stvar je ogromna.
To je sprejeto znanstveno dejstvo.

Maji v J Ameriki so imeli ze pred TISOC leti bolj natancen koledar kot ga imamo mi sedaj. Za njegov izracun je potrebno znati zapleten del matematike in astronomije. Koledar se jim pricne z 0. Neha se steti, ko bo na nasem datumu leto 2012. Takrat nastopi kataklizma. Prerod. Svojim otrokom so dajali imena po datumih. Cas jim je pomenil vse. Odstevali so dneve do konca koledarja. Bali so se ga. Leto 2012.
To je sprejeto znanstveno dejstvo.

Ledene dobe se ponavlajo na 20.000 let. Trajajo po 10.000 let.
Sedaj se nahajo na koncu dobe, ko ni ledenih dob. Ce pogledamo kot graf vidimo da smo CISTO pri zacetku nove ledene dobe.
To je sprejeto znanstveno dejstvo.

Vse vere imajo podoben zacetek opisan v njihovih delih(biblija, koran, vede...). Povodenj. Potop. Kataklizma. Vse vere isto.
To je sprejeto znanstveno dejstvo.

Einsten je dokazal, da zaradi rotacije zemlje in ledu, ki se nabira na tecaju in polu lahko pride da se zemlja zasuka.
To je sprejeto znanstveno dejstvo.

Bliza se leto 2012.
To JE dejstvo.

Atlantida, civilazija, ki je zivela pred naso zadnjo ledeno dobo. Nato pa so prav zaradi nastopa ledene dobe izumrli. Po vsem svetu so izrocila, kako so rdecebradci prisli po morju. Prinesli so znanje. S tem znanjem je bilo mozno zgraditi piramide po vseh celinah in s tem znanjem so dobila primitivna ljudstva znanja za koledar in ostalo.
To je NEsprejeto dejstvo.

Kristof Kolumb je leta 1492 PRVI odkril Ameriko. Piramide so nastale pac nakljucno pac nakljucno po vseh celinah, nakljucno so dobili tudi Maji koledar. Nakljucno so stare civilizacije poznale astronomijo, matematiko celo bolje kot mi. Nakljucno.
NAKLJUCNO???

Premislite, casa imate se do 2012.

eh, kakšna atlantida (nalašč sem z malo napisal, ker je to kr neki... ) ni je - al pa jo je mogoče en taki vulkan pokril, kot je cez luzo (Yellowstone)

Kdor verjame v tele atlantidske in piramidske pravljice - je naivnež.

Sam bullshit so zgodbice o tem, da danes ne znamo narest piramide ipd.

Zresnite se, fantje!

Ja, se strinjam. Divjaki naj bi bili preprimitivni, da bi si izmislili koledar. Njim so ga morali dobaviti "arijski Atlanti".

Butasto podcenjevanje in zatekanje v pravljice.

Vemo... Kaj točno vemo? Očitno bolj malo glede na to da vse takole posplošuješ... Vemo da niso pluli tako daleč, vemo da niso kopali premoga, vemo da niso znali višje matematike, vemo da so piramide plod malih zelenih...
Bulšit. Evo sedaj pa še mene kritiziraj, da sem iz časov inkvizicije. Mi bolj malo vemo o ljudstvih pred nami. Vse je zgolj domneva. Znanstvena ali kakršnakoli že...

BTW: piramide v Egiptu so bile zgrajene pred 10000 leti. TO JE ZNANSTVENO DOKAZANO.

Ja, prebral si p to na internetu.

GaPe kateri znanstvenik je pa to dokazal.
Splošno znano in sprejeto dejstvo je da Egipčanske piramide izvirajo nekako iz tretjega tisočletja pr.n.š. Give or take a few 100 years...
Majevske pa od 300-1200 n.š.

Zakaj potem egiptovska vlada še vedno živi v zmoti in na svojih straneh ponuja linke do strani kjer je napisana ta kolosalna zmota 5000 let?

Morda pa ne verjamejo ravno vsakemu "hohštaplerju"...

Še vedno ne vem kakšni dokazi. In predvsem od koga.

Alex999 - na http://miha77.tripod.com
/atlantida/ manjka še opis atlantide iz Mahabharate(indija).

LP
Nebivedu

To je samo napihnjen mit o nekem potopljenem mestu. Potopljenih mest (potresi, ugrezanje zemljišča, dvig vode, ipd) imaš pa kar nekaj tukaj okrog. Glede na to da so najstarejša mesta stara več kot 5000 (in to je zelo zelo veliko) let je to povsem možno.

Najprej vsem tistim, ki verjamejo da ni vse tako kot pise v knjigah ena lepa pohvala. Vesel sem, da vse vec ljudi zna sestevati 1+1 in da se ne obnasajo kot ovcke, ki sledijo ustaljenemu ritmu, ki ga narekujejo solske knjige.

Nekdo je rekel da v Egiptu ne priznavajo, da so piramide starejse. Prav tako za sfingo. Seveda, da ne. Ce priznajo, se jim podre kultura, ponos in dejstvo kaj so bili v preteklosti.

Ce kdo ni vedel, v Egiptu in okolici je na TISOCE...TISOCE...TISOCE piramid.

Ljudje delajo zmeraj iste napake. Nocemo verjeti v nove stvari, zato ker raje sedijo doma na stolu, misloc da so vsemogocni, da vse vejo.

Lep prikaz cloveske trdoglavosti o sprejetju cesa novega skozi zgodovino.



"I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." -Tolstoy


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"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." -M. Planck


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"There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such trifling
investment of fact."
Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi

**********************


"Fooling around with alternating current is just a waste of time.
Nobody will use it, ever."
Thomas Edison, 1889


**********************
"It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories
to suit facts." Sherlock Holmes
**********************

"There is no adequate defense, except stupidity, against the impact of a new idea." Percy Williams Bridgman (1882-1961)
U. S. physicist, Nobel Prize, 1946
**********************

"I believe there is no philosophical high-road in science, with epistemological signposts. No, we are in a jungle and find our way by trial and error, building our road behind us as we proceed."
Max Born (1882-1970) German Physicist. Nobel Prize, 1954.
**********************



"Science is not formal logic–it needs the free play of the mind in as great a degree as any other creative art. It is true that this is a gift which can hardly be taught, but its growth can be encouraged in those who already posses it." Max Born (1882-1970) German Physicist. Nobel Prize, 1954.


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"There ain't no rules around here! We're trying to accomplish something!" Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931) U. S. inventor.
**********************


"The enemy of the conventional wisdom is not ideas but the march of events..." John Kenneth Galbraith


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"It is not as uncommon for engineers to accept the reality of phenomena that are not yet understood, as it is very common for physicists to disbelieve the reality of phenomena that seem to contradict contemporary beliefs of physics "- H. Bauer


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"One could not be a successful scientist without realizing that, in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of scientists, a goodly number of scientists are not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid."
J. D. Watson _The Double Helix_

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"Round about the accredited and orderly facts of every science there ever floats a sort of dust-cloud of exceptional observations, of occurrences minute and irregular and seldom met with, which it always proves more easy to ignore than to attend to... Anyone will renovate his science who will steadily look after the irregular phenomena, and when science is renewed, its new formulas often have more of the voice of the exceptions in them than of
what were supposed to be the rules."
William James

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"If a man is in too big a hurry to give up an error he is liable
to give up some truth with it."
Wilbur Wright, 1902


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"It's like religion. Heresy in science is thought of as a bad thing, whereas it should be just the opposite." - T. Gold


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"The more important fundamental laws and facts of physical science have all been discovered, and these are now so firmly established that the possibility of their ever being supplanted in consequence of new discoveries is exceedingly remote.... Our future discoveries must be looked for in the sixth place of decimals." Albert. A. Michelson, speech at the dedication of
Ryerson Physics Lab, U. of Chicago, 1894

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Unnamed Law: If it happens, it must be possible.


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"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong."
Arthur C. Clarke's First Law


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"It is through science that we prove,
but through intuition that we discover."
H. Poincare


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"There is not the slightest indication that nuclear energy
will ever be obtainable. It would mean that the
atom would have to be shattered at will."

Albert Einstein, 1932
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"Nothing is too wonderful to be true if it be consistent
with the laws of nature."
Michael Faraday


**********************

"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is
familiar with it." -M. Planck


**********************


"...man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but usually manages to pick himself up, walk over or around it, and carry on."
Winston S. Churchill

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"I am tired of all this sort of thing called science here ... We have spent millions in that sort of thing for the last few years,
and it is time it should be stopped."
- U.S. Senator Simon Cameron, on the Smithsonian Institute (1901)

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"In questions of science the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual."
-Galileo Galilei

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"Thus, the task is, not so much to see what no one has yet seen; but to think what nobody has yet thought, about that
which everybody sees."
- Erwin Schrödinger 1887-1961


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"Of course, if one ignores contradictory observations, one can claim to have an 'elegant' or 'robust' theory. But it isn't science."
- Halton Arp,

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Science advances funeral by funeral.


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"A man with a new idea is a crank until he succeeds." - M. Twain


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Never attribute to conspiracy that which is adequately explained by stupidity.


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"Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are that good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats."
- Howard Aiken


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"He who never walks save where he sees men's tracks
makes no discoveries." - J.G. Holland

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"Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is ridiculous fiction."

Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology at Toulouse, 1872
**********************







The Future in Quotes


Maybe some of these would now appreciate one of
Casey Stengle's jewels.

"I never make predictions, especially about the future"


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"Man won't fly for a thousand years." - Wilbur Wright, to brother Orville after a disappointing flying experiment (1901)

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"Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible."


Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895

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"What, sir? You would make a ship sail against the wind and currents by lighting a bonfire under her decks? I pray you excuse me. I have no time to listen to such nonsense."
Napoleon Bonaparte to Robert Fulton,
upon hearing of the latter's plans for a steam-powered engine.


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"I have not the smallest molecule of faith in aerial navigation other than ballooning." -Lord Kelvin, engineer and physicist (c. 1890)

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"In all fairness to those who by training are not prepared to evaluate the fundamental difficulties of going from one planet to another, or even from the earth to the moon, it must be stated that there is not the slightest possibility of such journeys."
F.R. Moulton, American astronomer (1935)


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"The Panama Canal is actually a thing of the past, and Nature in her works will soon obliterate all traces of French energy and money expended on the Isthmus." Scientific American (1981)


**********************

A committee, organized to study Columbus' plan to sail west to discover a shorter route to the Indies, reporting to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella of Spain in 1486 that the trip was
impossible because

1. A voyage to Asia would require three years
2. The Western Ocean is infinite and perhaps unnavigable.
3. If he reached the Antipodes [the land on the other side of the globe from Europe] he could not get back.
4. There are no Antipodes because the greater part of the globe is covered with water, and because Saint Augustine says so ...
5. Of five zones, only three are habitable.
6. So many centuries after the Creation it was unlikely that anyone could find hitherto unknown lands of any value.

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"Aerial flight is one of that class of problems with which
man will never be able to cope."
Simon Newcomb, American astronomer (1903)

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"If God had intended that man should fly,
he would have given him wings." -Widely attributed to
George W. Melville, chief engineer of the U.S. Navy (c. 1900)


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"Atomic energy might be as good as our present-day explosives, but it is unlikely to produce anything very much more dangerous."
Winston Churchill (1939)

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"That is the biggest fool thing we have ever done ... The bomb will never go off, and I speak as an expert in explosives." - U.S. Admiral William D. Leahy to President Truman, on atomic weaponry (1945)

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"I am tired of all this sort of thing called science here ... We have spent millions in that sort of thing for the last few years, and it is time it should be stopped." - U.S. Senator Simon Cameron, on the
Smithsonian Institute (1901)

**********************

"I watched his countenance closely, to see if he was not deranged ... and I was assured by other senators after he left the room that they had no confidence in it." - U.S. Senator Smith of Indiana, after witnessing a demonstration of Samuel Morses's telegraph (1842)

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"X-rays are a hoax." -Lord Kelvin, engineer and physicist (c. 1900)


**********************

"... too far-fetched to be considered." - The editor of Scientific American, in a letter to Robert Goddard about
Goddard's idea of a rocket-accelerated airplane bomb (1940)

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"They never will try to steal the phonograph.
It is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Edison (c. 1915)

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"Everyone acquainted with the subject will recognize it as a conspicuous failure." -Henry Morton, President of the Stevens Institute of Technology, on Edison's incandescent lamp (c.1880)

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"I must confess that my imagination, in spite even of spurring, refuses to see any sort of submarine doing anything
but suffocating its crew and floundering at sea."
H.G. Wells, Anticipations (1901)

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"People give ear to an upstart astrologer who strove to show that the earth revolves, not the heavens of the firmament, the sun and the moon ... This fool wishes to reverse the entire scheme of astronomy; but sacred Scripture tells us that Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, not the earth."
- Martin Luther, about 1540, in Table Talk.

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"The view that the sun stands motionless at the center of the universe is foolish, philosophically false, utterly heretical, because contrary to Holy Scripture. The view that the earth is not the center of the universe and even has a daily rotation is philosophically false, and at least an erroneous belief."
Holy Office, Roman Catholic Church,
edict of March 5, 1616.

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"The multitude of books is a great evil. There is no limit to this fever for writing; every one must be an author; some out of vanity, to acquire celebrity and raise up a name,
others for the sake of mere gain."
Martin Luther (1483-1546), Table Talk.

**********************

"Lee DeForest has said in many newspapers and over his signature that it would be possible to transmit the human voice across the Atlantic before many years. Based on these absurd and deliberately misleading statements, the misguided public ... has been persuaded to purchase stock in his company ..." - a U.S. District Attorney, prosecuting American inventor Lee DeForest for selling stock fraudulently through the mail for his Radio Telephone Company (1913)

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"A web of naked fancies." - A critic's reaction to the publication of physicist George Simon Ohm's theory of electricity (Ohm's law) in 1827



"Science, it would seem, is not sexless; she is a man,
a father, and infected too."

Virginia Woolf, 'Three Guineas', 1938

Koci: heretik.

Hm, zanimiva tema. Sam osebno mislim, da je Atlantida mit, ki ga je Platon vpeljal kot prispodobo za idealno druzbo oz. kot izvor vsega znanja. Po drugi strani je pa res, da obstaja veliko najdb in drugih indicev, ki lahko napeljujejo na misel, da je nase pojmovanje zgodovine razvoja druzbe in cloveka na trhlih temeljih. Zemljevid na katerem je zarisana Antarktika brez ledu je ze en tak primer, ki pa je zelo mil v primerjavi s kaksnimi okamenelimi stopinjami cloveka v cevljih pod katerimi je zdrobljen trilobit. Ali pa Texsasko "kladivo" najdeno v kamenini, ki ima okamenel les za rocaj in glavo iz zeleza, ki ga danes prakticno ne poznamo. Vse to si je bilo mogoce ogledati na zelo zanimivi rastavi artefaktov, ki jih ne moremo zgodovinsko razumeti, na Dunaju. Zal so rastavo ze zaprli. Sam ne verjam v kaksne pravljice, ampak take izkopanine ti pa vseeno dajo malo misliti. Dopuscam moznost, da vse le ni bilo tako kot si zamisljamo sedaj ali pa so to dokazi, da bomo nekoc izumili casovni stroj.

Lui

Rasta:
Pust folku naj verjame, kar hoče. Najboljše je, da se ljudje učijo iz lastnih napak. Vseen pa ni treba Atlantide zavračat 100%. Ne razumem, kak je lahk kdo tak pameten in vsemogočen, da zanika nekaj verjetnega na podlagi besed drugih ljudi. Pust folku, naj išče Atlantido in verjame vanjo. Sej bodo sami obupal, če je ne bodo našli. Ampak po nepotrebnem boš pa ti izpadel kreten, če jo bodo našli.
Sej je lepo imet svoje mnenje in pa svoje poglede na svet, ampak ni jih vseh treba vsiljevat drugim ljudem. Mal bolj odprte glave bit sploh ne škodi v tem svetu.
Thomas:
Vidim, da si še vedno v fazi zavračanja novih idej. Res zveniš kot Cerkev v 1500.

Madona ste eni naivni in neuki - morm rečt!

Če bi obstajala nevemkakšna civilizacija pred denimo 10 tisoč leti, bi nedvomno našli nekaj njenih artefaktov. Če smo našli dinozavrske kosti iz desetticočkrat bolj oddaljene preteklosti - bi tudi to. Pa razen nekaj ponaredkov ni ničesar.



Če bi se pa celo potopila ena celina - Atlantida ali kar že - pred 12 tisoč leti, bi se to videlo s prostim očesom iz vesolja. Nobene take "brazgotine" v Zemlji ni.

Nehejte ga pihat, no!