NATO in Rusija

Mr.B je 9. dec 2017 ob 18:27 izjavil:

Verjamem da ima PAc-Man ov prispevek nekj z natom. bo ze vedel.. No pa ce gremo skoraj stoletje kasneje, da si ravno nekateri še veno živijo v letu 45 prejšnjega stoletja, imamo članek iz leta 2017. NATO Would Be Totally Outmatched In A Conventional War With Russia Žalostno da Pac-Manove demokracije silijo v Jederski spopad namesto dialoga.

Ruska roba je v razsulu. Imajo glih 3 delujoce bombnike, 5 migov in 6 suhojev. Tanki ki jih nucajo 80% zarjaveli, imajo kup problemov z modernizacijo, njihova letalonosilka pa se vidi dalec dalec prek obzorja, ker ob normalnem delovanju spusca tak dim, kot da bi gorela. :D

Cas, ko je bila rusija supersila, je mimo. Ko so meli na oblasti komuniste dnar niti ni bil problem, zdej ko se grejo turbokapitalizm, pa brez dnarja ne gre bl nc.

Ta že zgoraj prilepljen članek Ioffove je super, ampak izredno dolg. Zadane praktično vse točke, par poudarkov:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar...

//patriotizem je pogosto maska:

Anton was hoping that Minin could help him get his foot in the door at one of the state security services. “It’s prestigious, they pay well, and the work is interesting,” he said. If he were accepted, he could hope for a salary of 50,000 rubles (less than $900) a month, which was almost double the average salary in Astrakhan. Was he motivated by any feelings of—“Patriotic conviction?,” Anton finished my sentence, and started to chuckle. “No,” he said. “I don’t care what government I work for. If the French Foreign Legion takes me, I’ll go!”

Isn’t it sacrilege to say such things in a place like Volgograd?, I asked them.

Sergei said the kind of patriotism being fostered in Russia these days was empty, even unhealthy. He’d been angered by restrictions of online behavior imposed after the prodemocracy protests of 2011–12, and by government monitoring of online speech, which he called unconstitutional. “And if you look at the state of our roads and our cities, and how people live in our city, you want to ask, why are they spending billions of rubles on storing people’s personal information in massive databases?”

//Rusija ni superdržava:

But most Russians don’t recognize the Russia portrayed in this story: powerful, organized, and led by an omniscient, omnipotent leader who is able to both formulate and execute a complex and highly detailed plot.

Gleb Pavlovsky, a political consultant who helped Putin win his first presidential campaign, in 2000, and served as a Kremlin adviser until 2011, simply laughed when I asked him about Putin’s role in Donald Trump’s election. “We did an amazing job in the first decade of Putin’s rule of creating the illusion that Putin controls everything in Russia,” he said. “Now it’s just funny” how much Americans attribute to him.

A businessman who is high up in Putin’s United Russia party said over an espresso at a Moscow café: “You’re telling me that everything in Russia works as poorly as it does, except our hackers? Rosneft”—the state-owned oil giant—“doesn’t work well. Our health-care system doesn’t work well. Our education system doesn’t work well. And here, all of a sudden, are our hackers, and they’re amazing?”

//na obeh koncih jih daje preganjavica:

In the same way that Russians overestimate America, seeing it as an all-powerful orchestrator of global political developments, Americans project their own fears onto Russia, a country that is a paradox of deftness, might, and profound weakness—unshakably steady, yet somehow always teetering on the verge of collapse. Like America, it is hostage to its peculiar history, tormented by its ghosts.

//Putka je bil pasji zaradi javnih objav o 2 mrd $

It wasn’t a strategic operation,” says Andrei Soldatov, a Russian journalist with deep sources in the security services, who writes about the Kremlin’s use of cybertechnology. “Given what everyone on the inside has told me,” he says, hacking the U.S. political system “was a very emotional, tactical decision. People were very upset about the Panama Papers.”

//Projekt "Shekajmo Ameriko" je imel obilo improvizacije, Putin je pripravljen tvegati:

A forgery, a couple of groups of hackers, and a drip of well-timed leaks were all it took to throw American politics into chaos. Whether and to what extent the Trump campaign was complicit in the Russian efforts is the subject of active inquiries today. Regardless, Putin pulled off a spectacular geopolitical heist on a shoestring budget—about $200 million, according to former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper. This point is lost on many Americans: The subversion of the election was as much a product of improvisation and entropy as it was of long-range vision. What makes Putin effective, what makes him dangerous, is not strategic brilliance but a tactical flexibility and adaptability—a willingness to experiment, to disrupt, and to take big risks.

“They do plan,” said a senior Obama-administration official. “They’re not stupid at all. But the idea that they have this all perfectly planned and that Putin is an amazing chess player—that’s not quite it. He knows where he wants to end up, he plans the first few moves, and then he figures out the rest later. People ask if he plays chess or checkers. It’s neither: He plays blackjack. He has a higher acceptance of risk. Think about it. The election interference—that was pretty risky, what he did. If Hillary Clinton had won, there would’ve been hell to pay.”

//V ruskem kanonu ima Putka stare zamere, citiran je predavatelj na inštitutu za mednarodne odnose. BTW, Kosovo je v tej verziji neobstoječ problem:

For a while, Putin had tried to find a role for Russia within that Western order. When Boris Yeltsin, Russia’s first post-Soviet president, named him his successor in 1999, Russia was waging war against Islamist separatists in Chechnya. On 9/11, Putin was the first foreign leader to call President George W. Bush, hoping to impress on him that they were now allies in the struggle against terrorism. He tried to be helpful in Afghanistan. But in 2003, Bush ignored his objections to the invasion of Iraq, going around the United Nations Security Council, where Russia has veto power. It was a humiliating reminder that in the eyes of the West, Russia was irrelevant, that “Russian objections carried no weight,” as Migranyan told his students.

...

The U.S., Migranyan complained, had also been meddling directly in Russian politics. American consultants had engineered painful post-Soviet market reforms, enriching themselves all the while, and had helped elect the enfeebled and unpopular Yeltsin to a second term in 1996. The U.S. government directly funded both Russian and American nongovernmental organizations, such as the National Endowment for Democracy, to promote democracy and civil society in Russia.

...

The Rose Revolution in Georgia, the Orange Revolution in Ukraine, the Tulip Revolution in Kyrgyzstan—“Russia looks at this with understandable mistrust,” Migranyan told his students. He pointed out that the United States, by its own admission, had spent $5 billion in Ukraine to promote democracy—that is, to expand the liberal Western order.

//EuroMaidan je bil šoku:

“The Maidan shifted a gear,” Ben Rhodes, Obama’s deputy national-security adviser for strategic communications, told me. “Putin had always been an antagonist, and aggressive. But he went on offense after the Maidan. The gloves were off, in a way. To Putin, Ukraine was such a part of Russia that he took it as an assault on him.” (A source close to the Kremlin confirmed this account.)

//ruska opozicija čaka, da se sistem sesuje, saj ji drugega ne preostane:

The Russian opposition gleefully waits for Putin to fall, to resign, to die. Every misstep, every dip in oil prices, is to them just another sign of his coming personal apocalypse. The hungry anticipation is mirrored in the West, especially in the United States.

//sistem posledično daje paranoja:

For the most part, the Kremlin is focused not on any positive development program, but on staving off that fate—and on taking full advantage of its power before the state’s inevitable demise. That’s one reason corruption among the ruling elite is so breathtakingly brazen: A Russian businessman who works with government clients describes the approach as the “last day of Pompeii,” repeated over and over.

//paranojo se servira tudi ljudstvu:

Fear of collapse is also why Russian propaganda is intent on highlighting the bloody aftermath of revolutions the world over. Things may not be great in Russia now—the country has struggled mightily since 2012—but, the country’s news programs suggest, things can always get worse.

//bližnjevzhodna avantura jih bo po piiiiiiiiii:

Worried about potential terror attacks in nearby Sochi during the 2014 Olympics, the Russian secret services had allowed hundreds, if not thousands, of Islamist rebels, all of them Russian citizens, to go to Syria.

...

What will become of these Russian fighters, now better trained and battle-hardened, as isis territory continues to shrink? Some 400 have already returned to Russia, according to the Soufan Center report, but even those who don’t return home can wreak havoc: In April, a suicide bomber blew himself up at a St. Petersburg metro station, killing 13 people.

//zaradi hekanja jih dobivajo po piiiiiiii:

Ironically, one of the Russian institutions to suffer the most blowback for the Russian hack is the FSB, one of the agencies believed to be behind the 2016 interference. “Before 2016, the FSB had a good reputation in Washington,” Andrei Soldatov, the Russian journalist, told me. The head of the FSB “was considered a reliable partner in fighting terrorism.” But “it all ended in 2016, and it ended very badly.” FSB officers were put on the FBI’s most-wanted list for cybercriminals, an unprecedented retaliation.

//vodena demokracija v praksi:

Having declared his candidacy, Putin will almost certainly win another six-year term. Instead of Navalny, the television celebrity Ksenia Sobchak, a daughter of the man who helped launch Putin’s political career, will run against him—acting, it is commonly believed, as a Kremlin-approved steam valve for the liberal opposition. The oligarch Mikhail Prokhorov, the majority owner of the Brooklyn Nets, is thought to have played this role in 2012.

//real talk:

Some Americans, including the current president, believe that if only we could identify where our interests align, Russia could be a good partner. But those who have dealt with Putin for decades understand that this is, at best, a fantasy. “Putin defines Russia’s interests in opposition to—and with the objective of thwarting—Western policy,” Ash Carter, Obama’s last defense secretary, told me recently. “It’s very hard to build a bridge to that motivation. It makes it ipso facto impossible” to “work cooperatively with Russia.”

Putin is not a supervillain. He is not invincible, or unstoppable. He pushes only until the moment he meets resistance. His 2014 plans to lop off the eastern third of Ukraine, for instance, broke apart against the surprisingly fierce resistance of the Ukrainian army, and Western sanctions.

...

Putin set out to show that there is nothing special about America, that it is just another country. Whether he is right depends in no small part on whether enough Americans—especially powerful or politically connected Americans—still believe their system is worth defending.

There is one dot on the horizon that particularly worries the Kremlin. In 2024, Putin’s next six-year presidential term will be up. The constitution limits Putin to two consecutive terms, and he will be 71 years old.

...

More and more, he appears to be a man without an exit strategy. As one Putin ally told me in 2013, “We don’t have this tradition of, okay, you served two terms and you leave. We have no other tradition but to hold out to the end and leave feetfirst”—that is, in a coffin.

...

As the economic pie gets smaller, the elites are cannibalizing one another in the struggle over whatever resources remain, and can be squeezed out of the population. The people now filling Russia’s most notorious jails are elite government officials: countless bureaucrats, at least four governors, and numerous mayors. A minister is under house arrest. They are the losers in an increasingly savage fight. The winners are typically those who spin in the orbit closest to Putin’s dying star.

Ironically, Putin has laid the groundwork for exactly the kind of chaotic collapse that he has spent his political life trying to avoid, the kind of collapse that gave rise to his reign. He has made himself a hostage to a system he built with his own hands.

Iatromantis je 14. dec 2017 ob 10:32 izjavil:

Newly Declassified Documents: Gorbachev Told NATO Wouldn't Move Past East German Border

Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev was given a host of assurances that the NATO alliance would not expand past what was then the East German border in 1990 according to new declassified documents.
[...]
Russian Presidents Boris Yeltsin and Vladimir Putin have complained bitterly about the expansion of NATO towards their borders despite what they had believed were assurances to the contrary. "What happened to the assurances our western partners made after the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact? Where are those declarations today?" Putin said at the Munich Conference on Security Policy in 2007."No one even remembers them. But I will allow myself to remind this audience what was said. I would like to quote the speech of NATO General Secretary Mr. Woerner in Brussels on 17 May 1990. He said at the time that: 'the fact that we are ready not to place a NATO army outside of German territory gives the Soviet Union a firm security guarantee.' Where are these guarantees?"

Očitno Rusi še vedno niso dojeli, da nimajo nobene pravice diktirati kakšna naj bo politika držav, ki niso Rusija. Zanimivo je, da to obvladajo kadar se kaj takega dogaja v Iraku. Dvoličnost in hinavščina sta žal nacionalna športa. Eni jim pri tem tudi ploskajo ...

Pac-Man je 14. dec 2017 ob 11:17 izjavil:

Iatromantis je 14. dec 2017 ob 10:32 izjavil:

Tebi se zdi pametno prepustiti tretjino? Evrope beloruski usodi, sam zato, da se Rusija počuti močno in ne bodo prizadeti njihovi feelzi?

Vrhunske geopolitične snežinkice.

Nič se mi ne zdi, novico sem prilepil sem, ker je takšen naslov te teme. Vendar, če se že sprašujemo, lahko isto vprašanje tudi obrnemo - je pametno pustit vpliv ZDA na Evropo, sam zato, da se ZDA počuti močno in ne bodo prizadeti njihovi feelzi?

Še bolj pomembno vprašanje je, ali leta 2017 še vedno rabimo prepuščat področje vpliva vojaškim organizacijam in z zadovoljstvom plačevati račun za njihovo "varovanje"? Je Evropa res tako brezmočna in ogrožena?

Poleg tega, če pogledaš zgodovino, vidiš koliko je teh snedenih zagotavljanj.. npr. kako so Angleži lagali Arabcem v prvi svetovni vojni, potem pa so si nonšalantno Sykes–Picotjevsko razdelili ozemlje Arabcev pod vpliv Rusov, Francozov in Angležev...

Kot da v geopolitiki kredibilnost ni pomembna? Ko diktatorja Libije pobijejo kot psa, medtem ko je tik pred tem pomagal zahodni geopolitični igri pri njenem prikazovanju iluzij, da Busheva vojna proti terorizmu deluje in teatrsko postal moderni državnik, ki se je odpovedal kemičnemu orožju, da se je šel celo Pahor klečeplazit dol; potem pa isto zahtevajo npr. od Kim Una - zakaj bi v tem primeru pričakovali sodelovanje? Ko pa ga ne dobijo, pa je Kim nor, neuravnovešen in nihče ga ne razume in njegovih feelzov?! Je kaj drugače z Rusijo?

Adam Curtis lepo opiše to nesposobnost novinarjev, da bi opisali, kaj se sploh dogaja v svetu - in posledice tega neuspeha:

Goal is not to win the war, but use the conflict to create constant state of destabilized perception in order to manage and control.

Vladislav Surkov

Kakšno butasto mišljenje.

Več nam je prinesla Avstrija ne pa amerika.

Podobno so govorili za vzpon nacistov in da ne bo nič hudega, če jim dajo Avstrijo in Sudeter ter na koncu Češko.

Vsi vemo kako se je končalo s politiko popuščanja.

Tu mora biti samo ena politika glede Rusije: NIČ POPUŠČANJA! POkazati stalno svoje mišice, da si močnejši in da se ne boš pustil jebat.
Tisti, ki zagovarjate popuščanje potem zagovarjate to, da osnovnošolce nek bully trpinči in jim uniči zgodnja leta.

Bullyjem pač moraš pokazati da si ti glavni in da ne boš dovolil tega, da te zajebavajo. V tem primeru Rusija in njihova mentaliteta iz 19. stoletja.

Starodavni je 15. dec 2017 ob 10:07 izjavil:

Podobno so govorili za vzpon nacistov in da ne bo nič hudega, če jim dajo Avstrijo in Sudeter ter na koncu Češko.

Vsi vemo kako se je končalo s politiko popuščanja.

Tu mora biti samo ena politika glede Rusije: NIČ POPUŠČANJA! POkazati stalno svoje mišice, da si močnejši in da se ne boš pustil jebat.
Tisti, ki zagovarjate popuščanje potem zagovarjate to, da osnovnošolce nek bully trpinči in jim uniči zgodnja leta.

Bullyjem pač moraš pokazati da si ti glavni in da ne boš dovolil tega, da te zajebavajo. V tem primeru Rusija in njihova mentaliteta iz 19. stoletja.

??? Torej Še malo, pa boste začeli govoriti, da ne smejo imeti izstreliti satelitevo, ker se lahko uporabljajo za vohunjene, ali pa pošiljajo napačne ali napačnim GPS koordinate etc... Dej no.

Bomo videli, kako bo v praksi.

http://www.businessinsider.com/eu-launc...

European Union nations, now unfettered by Britain's decision to quit, achieved a 70-year-old ambition on Thursday to integrate their defenses, launching a pact between 25 EU governments to fund, develop and deploy armed forces together.

European Council President Donald Tusk deemed the move "bad news for our enemies."

First blocked by the French parliament in the 1950s and later by Britain, which feared creation of an EU army, the pact aims to end the squandering of billions of euros by splintered defense policies.

It is also aimed at lowering Europe's heavy reliance on the United States.

...

Denmark, which has an opt out from EU defense matters, and Malta, were the only EU countries not to sign up, along with Brexiting Britain.

...

Caught off guard by Russia's Crimea annexation in 2014 and facing threats ranging from state-sponsored computer hackers to militant attacks, EU governments say the pact is justified by EU surveys showing most citizens want the bloc to provide security.

EU governments proved unable to act as a group in the 1990s Balkan wars and relied on U.S.-led NATO to stop the bloodshed on their doorstep.

In Libya in 2011, a Franco-British air campaign ran out of munitions and equipment and was again forced to turn to the United States, in what is considered an enduring embarrassment for the EU, a major economic power.

...

"It's sad that we needed Donald Trump to give us a boost, but whatever, it is the right outcome," said former German foreign minister Joschka Fischer, who as minister backed NATO's intervention in Kosovo in 1999 but opposed the 2003 Iraq war.

...

In one irony noted by EU diplomats, British Prime Minister Theresa May, who attended the summit, was left seeking a way into the project now that it was an actuality.

A 1998 Anglo-French EU defense accord is considered the genesis of Thursday's agreement. In a possible compromise on PESCO, Britain may be able to join in later on, but only on an exceptional basis if it provides funds and expertise.

...

"We do face a number of threats across Europe," May said. "I'm very clear that although the British people took a sovereign decision to leave the EU, that does not mean that we were going to be leaving our responsibilities in terms of European security," she told reporters.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/9...

Newly declassified Bush 41-era documents show how constantly & unambiguously US & Western European leaders promised Gorbachev NATO would never expand one inch eastward, and how crucial this promise was to Russian acceptance of German reunification

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/413348-nato-...

Hja... morda je članek kredibilen. Prej je bilo v tej temi navedeno, da sta Baker in Clinton zavrnila možnost vstopa Rusije v NATO. Razlog glede na ta članek naj bi bil, da če se Rusijo pusti zunaj, bo vpliv na vzhodno evropske članice večji, zaradi grožnje, ki jo Rusija predstavlja njim.

Če je to res, je pomojem ta strategija precej kratkovidna. Mogoče bi bil vpliv na vzhodno evropske članice res nekoliko manjši, bi bil pa vpliv dosti večji na NATO članico Rusijo, ki je danes praktično ničen.

petrus je 17. dec 2017 ob 17:20 izjavil:

Saj ZDA že od nekdaj odkrito sabotirajo odnose med EU in Rusijo, zaradi njih imamo sankcije, zaradi njih trpi EU gospodarstvo, Američani se nam pa smejijo.

Sankcije imamo, ker je Rusija aneksirala Krim, naredila sranje v Donbasu in spotjo pomotoma sestrelila še potniško letalo polno EU državljanov.

Rusi, celo Putin, so prepričani, da lahko Američanom berejo misli,
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/19/worl...

According to an investigation by a former Moscow Times correspondent, Anna Smolchenko, the idea that Ms. Albright was jealous of Russia’s natural resources can be traced to a December 2006 interview with Boris Ratnikov, a retired major general from the Russian secret service. General Ratnikov told Rossiyskaya Gazeta that his colleagues in the service’s secret mind-reading division had read Ms. Albright’s thoughts in 1999, just before the United States-led military intervention in Kosovo that she had championed.

slovenčke pa zgleda daje preganjavica, da Američani kontrolirajo miselne procese Rusov, celo Putina.

In Srbija.

https://twitter.com/20committee/status/...

But Russia includes hugs and warm, mystical Orthodox Slavic brotherhood and shit.

@RFERL
This is how much Russia and the European Union invest in Serbia.

Pac-Man je 17. dec 2017 ob 21:13 izjavil:

In Srbija.

https://twitter.com/20committee/status/...

But Russia includes hugs and warm, mystical Orthodox Slavic brotherhood and shit.

@RFERL
This is how much Russia and the European Union invest in Serbia.

Objavi to v kakšni uni tepmi, kapitalisti nas bodo pojedli, boš že dobil pravi odgovor..

7tom1ja je 18. dec 2017 ob 08:44 izjavil:

https://twitter.com/Newsweek/status/941...

propaganda v polnem zagonu

Zakaj uporabljaš zahodne medije, ko ti paše in serješ po njih, ko ti ne paše?

Smrekar1,
Čak a nisi ti kot rečejo Amerika in njena tehnologija uberales v nasprotju z Ruskimi konzervami. Potem pa ko rusi le začnejo popravljati te stare konzerve, se DEREŠ : rusi se pripravljajo na tretjo svetovno vojno.
Morda pa ti še nisi dojel, da je hladn vojna zeloo dolgo passe, zato pa s to mentaliteto brca kitajska vse te redneke, katerih jutišnjo kosilo je skoraj odvisno kaj si misli Kitajska.
Grow up. Hladne vjne ni več, prej bo bolje v tovji glavi. v Končni fazi če imaš tanke stare 40 let, a ni smiselno le te počasi zamenjati ? Sej to delajo amerikaci, Nemci, Turki, a Rusi, Kitajci Iranci, ne te pa to ne smejo.

Mr.B je 18. dec 2017 ob 11:03 izjavil:

Smrekar1,
Čak a nisi ti kot rečejo Amerika in njena tehnologija uberales v nasprotju z Ruskimi konzervami. Potem pa ko rusi le začnejo popravljati te stare konzerve, se DEREŠ : rusi se pripravljajo na tretjo svetovno vojno.

Edini tukaj se dereš.

Ne, ni problem v tem, da se Rusija pripravlja na tretjo (četrto?) svetovno vojno. Problem je v tem, da drži gospodarstvo pri življenju z vlaganjem v vojsko. Tega vlaganja si ne bodo uspeli privoščiti več za zelo dolgo časa. Sledila bo zoprna odločitev: ali izgubijo vojsko in državo ali poskusijo vojsko nekako uporabiti, da ne gredo investicije v nič?

Če Putin ne bi 'kandidiral' na volitvah, če bi odšel v pokoj, bi upal na ugodnejši razplet dogodkov. Ker se je odločil, da bo svojo vladavino podaljšal še vsaj za 6 let (in verjetno do smrti), bo imel samo dve možnosti: ali vojsko uporabi na tujem ali naj jo uporabi za zatiranje domačih upornikov? Obstaja precej velika nevarnost, da bo šel na tuje, kar zna pomeniti tudi svetovno vojno.

fikus_ je 18. dec 2017 ob 11:07 izjavil:

Samo poglej, koliko letalonosilk imajo USA, mislim da 19. Koliko Rusi? samo eno, pa še tisti ste se smejali, ker si naredi dimno zaveso. Pa vedno pišeš, kakšne stare konzerve so Ruska letala, tanki kup rje, . . .

Sedaj te je pa naenkrat strah z USA na čelu.

Daj odloči se že!!!

Nisem rekel, da me skrbijo ruski jurišniki v Varšavi. Skrbijo me ruski jurišniki v Talinnu in tistih nekaj tisoč jedrskih konic s katerimi znajo opletati, ko jim stvari po kakih 48 urah uidejo iz rok in z repi med nogami bežijo proti Uralu.

Estonija je že del Ruske federacije? Nisem vedel

RT je v najboljšem primeru krinka in v najslabšem aktivni akter v ruski informacijski vojni. Črno na belem.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-afric...

You may recall those wannabe YouTube stars Williams and Kalvin Johnson, two black bloggers who went after Hillary Clinton with a vengeance last year, claiming to offer “a word of truth” to black audiences in the United States. They called her, among other things, an “old racist bitch,” and a “witch,” and “sick in the head.”

...

As The Daily Beast revealed in October, they were part of the extensive Russian-backed campaign to discredit Clinton and if possible get Trump elected.

...

But where did the Johnsons themselves come from? They claimed on Facebook that they were living in Atlanta, and they signed on to one Facebook group, “#BlackLivesMatter against #PoliceBrutality.” But nobody has been able to find them in Atlanta.

They said they were originally from Owerri, Nigeria—and they do have southeastern Nigerian Igbo accents—but we have been unable to find them there, either.

What The Daily Beast has discovered, however, is that the Johnsons were not the only Nigerians contacted by Russians who may have been looking for black avatars to influence the American political scene.

...

IN OCTOBER 2016, a month before the U.S. presidential elections, two men who claimed to be independent political and public affairs journalists with programs they said aired on RT, a Russian Television network funded by the Kremlin, met three Nigerian students studying in universities around Moscow to discuss Hillary Clinton and the U.S. presidential elections.

...

The Russians tried to convince the students that most Nigerians disliked Clinton, and to make them believe so, Aleksandr brought out his phone showed the students a video of Williams and Kalvin, whom he referred to as “Nigerian students” telling “the truth” about Clinton.

...

Each year, hundreds of Nigerians enroll in Russia’s institutions of higher learning, many of them on scholarships sponsored by state governments in Nigeria.

...

“For over a year, Nigerian students on scholarship in Russia have not been paid their $500 a month stipend by the Nigerian government, and many are forced to beg to survive,” Christian Anozie, editor of Events Diary International, a Nigerian magazine that focuses on the activities of Nigerians abroad, told The Daily Beast. “Russian officials would want to take advantage of their situation by offering them incentives to do their dirty jobs. Who knows, it may have been the case with Williams and Kalvin.”

...

Another Nigerian student in Moscow said he also saw the Williams and Kalvin video in October last year, and it was shown to him by a Russian classmate who is an active campaigner for United Russia, the political party of Putin.

His Russian classmate is “someone who terribly dislikes Clinton but is so in love with Putin and Trump,” the student told The Daily Beast. “He wanted to convince me that Nigerians didn’t want Clinton as the American president.”

Smrekar1 je 18. dec 2017 ob 11:31 izjavil:

Mr.B je 18. dec 2017 ob 11:18 izjavil:

Torej če tvoj imagnarni sovražnik obnavlja in menja sklatle iz 70 tih let prejšnjega stoletja, je to priprava za tretjo svetvono vojno.

Priporočam ti obnovo bralnih veščin. Očitno sicer razumeš koncept črke, besede in stavka, za poved nisem več prepričan, ampak nič ne de, prvi trije so dovolj. Ne razumeš pa, da lahko na ta način izražamo tudi nekatere ideje, misli in dogodke.

Nič hudega, se zgodi. Priporočam ti spodnjo literaturo, da malo obnoviš znanje:

https://www.dzs.si/artikel/8634140113++...

Sej vem. V Rusiji stradajo, so kot Severna Koreje. They don't give a fuck, kaj si Amerika misli. Počasi tudi ostali svet.

Samuel je 18. dec 2017 ob 11:51 izjavil:

Mr.B je 18. dec 2017 ob 11:18 izjavil:

zato pa zelooo dolgo ne bo več america first, ker če hočeš biti first, moraš žal tudi proizvajat.a.

Kaj vse človek ne izve na tem forumu...

PS: Če ZDA umakne proizvodnje po svetu nazaj v ZDA, bo s tistimi državami konec.. oziroma, dobili bomo kar nekaj novih Venezuel.

Seveda. Se mi je zdelo, da lahko stare Plavž, kar nazaj pripeljejo ter jih priklopijo v nekaj tednih. Po mojem bo samo ta investicija pokopala proizvajalca železa v Ameriki, ko ne bo konkurenčen Nemci ali pa Kitajcu. tudi tovarno ne moreš kar tako razen če si amazon prpeljati nazaj, in reči plačali mi boste da postavim tovarno nazaj, pa ja...

https://twitter.com/DomWalsh13/status/9...

When you're a Russian bot pretending to be an authentic British pro-Brexit voice but you forget to turn your Twitter location off

Kot rečeno, afera bo spodnesla noge celemu kupu uporabnih idiotov. Predolgo smo jih mirno gledali.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20...

The Farage staffer, the Russian embassy and a smear campaign against a Kremlin critic

Worker for Farage’s group in EU parliament was ‘frequent visitor to embassy’ and accused of role in propaganda stunt

A senior member of Nigel Farage’s parliamentary group staff in Brussels was known for making trips to the Russian embassy in Belgium and was accused of orchestrating a smear campaign against a critic of the Kremlin, the Guardian has been told.

...

“I was told in June 2015 that this gentleman had a relationship with the Russian embassy in Brussels and that every time he came back from the Russian embassy he would return with a bootload of propaganda,” one former staffer told the Guardian.

The remarks were confirmed by another former staffer who also allegedly heard them from McManus.

...

Ellul Bonici speaks fluent Russian and was educated in the former Soviet Union in the early 1980s, according to a biographical essay he published about his experience.

“Kevin was part of the secretariat, one of Farage’s senior staff members, and he has always kept them very close,” said Gary Cartwright, a journalist who covers the EU parliament and who previously worked in Farage’s parliamentary group.

The new allegation comes as some British MPs have started to raise questions about whether Russia may have sought to influence the Brexit vote.

...

Farage’s proximity to pro-Kremlin actors was first made apparent in late 2014, after alleged actions by Ellul Bonici became the source of a complaint.

In December that year, the Maltese staffer walked into the European parliament and distributed hundreds of books to members’ pigeonholes without authorisation, according to the results of an internal investigation that was later conducted by the parliament’s security service.

The book was called Red Dalia, a highly critical biography of Dalia Grybauskaitė, the president of Lithuania and Putin critic, who weeks earlier had referred to Russia as a “terrorist state”.

Nova UK HMS Queen Elizabeth, ni panike, samo do 200 litrov na uro je puščanja morske vode:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42406138

eh,
arms race z rusijo izziva tut amerika s svojim aegis ashore, ki je kršitev enega sporazuma o jedrskih raketah (pozabil katerega že; da land-based baterije ne smejo biti sposobne izstreliti manevrirnih raket z jedrskimi konicami, kar tomahawk je).