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NATO in Rusija

NATO in Rusija

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Poldi112 ::

Zakaj že? Si bil kdaj nabornik? Koliko dejansko misliš, da so te usposobili? Če misliš, da imaš kakršne koli realne šanse, pojdi enkrat za hec na airsoft fight. :)
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.

zmaugy ::

Brez skrbi, usposobili so te dovolj dobro, da si lahko, če bi bilo treba, obul vojaške škornje, vedel katero opremo potrebuješ in vzel v roke puško in znal z njo rokovati.
To je vse tisto, kar danes izven vojske in policije (in samo delno še zadnje generacije nabornikov JLA) obvlada natanko nihče drug.
Vse ostalo je Darwin, vendar ti osnovno usposabljanje da veliko večje možnosti preživetja in državi odklene potencial, ki ga danes niti pod razno nima zgolj s tistih 7000 profesionalcev.

Mr.B ::

France Rejects Genocide Accusations Against Israel in Gaza,
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold

Poldi112 ::

zmaugy je izjavil:

Brez skrbi, usposobili so te dovolj dobro, da si lahko, če bi bilo treba, obul vojaške škornje, vedel katero opremo potrebuješ in vzel v roke puško in znal z njo rokovati.
To je vse tisto, kar danes izven vojske in policije (in samo delno še zadnje generacije nabornikov JLA) obvlada natanko nihče drug.
Vse ostalo je Darwin, vendar ti osnovno usposabljanje da veliko večje možnosti preživetja in državi odklene potencial, ki ga danes niti pod razno nima zgolj s tistih 7000 profesionalcev.


Traparija. Usposobili so me ravno toliko, da sem lahko uspešno kanon futer. In vsak profesionalec bi nas zradiral za šalo. Sicer pa streljanje izven vojske in policije obvladajo vsaj še lovci in športni strelci. Slednji bolje kot večina policajev.
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.

Fritz ::

Če bi bilo streljanje edina pomembna veščina v vojski, bi se dalo vojske narediti v nekaj tednih a se jih ne da. Niti približno.
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein

zmaugy ::

Napisal sem še kaj drugega od streljanja s puško, ane?
Profesionalcev imamo 7000. Vojaško sposobnih ljudi pa je nekaj krat 100000. V primeru SHTF bi bilo teh 7000 ljudi pljunek v morje.

Master_Yoda ::

Seveda, in zato je najbolje vpoklicati ljudi, ki so za teh 7000 celo zivljenje placevali davke. Da ne govorimo o tem kako bi nabornike uporabili kot kanonfuter prej kot teh 7000, saj so takticno gledano bolj pomembni in je bolje da zivljenje izgubi nabornik z par mesecev treninga kot pa profesionalni vojak. /s

Smrekar1 ::

Master_Yoda je izjavil:

Seveda, in zato je najbolje vpoklicati ljudi, ki so za teh 7000 celo zivljenje placevali davke. Da ne govorimo o tem kako bi nabornike uporabili kot kanonfuter prej kot teh 7000, saj so takticno gledano bolj pomembni in je bolje da zivljenje izgubi nabornik z par mesecev treninga kot pa profesionalni vojak. /s


Moderne vojske so kanonfuter kot specializiran tip enote ukinile.
Kot potencialni kanonfuter se zavzemam, da pri tem tudi ostane.

Še en razlog zakaj ne glasovati za Levico več. Potreben sicer ni bil.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenil: Smrekar1 ()

zmaugy ::

Master_Yoda je izjavil:

Seveda, in zato je najbolje vpoklicati ljudi, ki so za teh 7000 celo zivljenje placevali davke. Da ne govorimo o tem kako bi nabornike uporabili kot kanonfuter prej kot teh 7000, saj so takticno gledano bolj pomembni in je bolje da zivljenje izgubi nabornik z par mesecev treninga kot pa profesionalni vojak. /s


Saj je čist simpl - ko bojo plačanci premagani/dezertirali in bo neoboroženo prebivalstvo prepuščeno agresorju/plenilcem, ti priporočam da napišeš eno pismo s pritožbo na vlado z odškodninskim zahtevkom medtem ko tebe in tvojo družino ropajo, tepejo ali še kaj hujšega.
Zdaj, če bi prebivalstvo bilo organizirano v stilu nacionalne garde ali teritorialne obrambe, potem bi to bilo veliko težje, ampak ne, nismo za to plačevali davkov, principi so važni.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: zmaugy ()

Cervantes ::

SimplyMiha je izjavil:

Kot da Američanom nič ne fali.

Primer: letalonosilka Gerald Ford.

zmaugy ::

Dajmo pogledat bojno ladjo New Jersey:

Splovljena 1942, v aktivni sestavi do 1991

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_New...


Bombniki B52:

Prvi polet 1952, zadnja proizvodnja 1963, še vedno v aktivni uporabi.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_...

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: zmaugy ()

fikus_ ::

New Jersey so 2x vmes dali v rezervo in 2x pred ponvno uporabo temeljito prenovili/modernizirali. Ostala je le lupina iz 1942.
B52 je pa tudi bil večkrat prenovljen/moderniziran.

Tako da, če je osnova dobra in modernizacija smiselna, potem zadeva dolgo živi.

zmaugy ::

Vsekakor (saj tudi avto redno servisiraš), ampak kaže se odnos - New Jersey se je uporabljal cca 50 let, B52 pa se uporabljajo še dlje in se še bojo.
Pri nas je pa problem manj kot 10 let stare EDINE bojne ladje, prenavljali pa so za kar težke milijone desetletja stare tanke, ki se jih zdaj ne morejo znebiti.
Ali je stvar slabega vzdrževanja, slabe pogodbe, slabega izdelka - ne vem. Vem pa da poleg nas to meče slabo luč tudi na Rusijo kot državo izvora.

fikus_ ::

Glede tankov, reševali so ravensko železarno in če nekatere druge, dali so jim delo in dobro plačali.
Avto redno servisiraš, praviloma pa temeljito ne prenavljaš, npr. nov motor, menjalnik, elektroniko, ker se ponavadi ne splača, razen, če gre za oldtajmer.

Smrekar1 ::

fikus_ je izjavil:

Glede tankov, reševali so ravensko železarno in če nekatere druge, dali so jim delo in dobro plačali.
Avto redno servisiraš, praviloma pa temeljito ne prenavljaš, npr. nov motor, menjalnik, elektroniko, ker se ponavadi ne splača, razen, če gre za oldtajmer.


Avtomobile se dela na stotine primerkov dnevno v vsaki tovarni.

Bojne ladje se dela po več let skupaj.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenil: Smrekar1 ()

windigo ::

zmaugy je izjavil:

Vem pa da poleg nas to meče slabo luč tudi na Rusijo kot državo izvora.

Motorji so nemški. MTU 16V4000M73L (Rolls-Royce PS AG).

fikus_ ::

Čudno je to, da so vsi trije odpovedali in da naj bi imeli enako napako! :| Tesnila na glavi?!!!!!

Vazelin ::

meni to malo smrdi vse skupaj s to ladjo in motorji

Cervantes ::

Angelca in Vladek sestankujeta v Sočiju.
Nouvelle détante?
Ali prstek Donnyju?

Zgodovina sprememb…

zmaugy ::

windigo je izjavil:

zmaugy je izjavil:

Vem pa da poleg nas to meče slabo luč tudi na Rusijo kot državo izvora.

Motorji so nemški. MTU 16V4000M73L (Rolls-Royce PS AG).


Vseeno mi je, odkod so Rusi nabavljali motorje, končni izdelek je ruski.

fikus_ je izjavil:

Glede tankov, reševali so ravensko železarno in če nekatere druge, dali so jim delo in dobro plačali.
Avto redno servisiraš, praviloma pa temeljito ne prenavljaš, npr. nov motor, menjalnik, elektroniko, ker se ponavadi ne splača, razen, če gre za oldtajmer.


Ja super, zdaj mi je pa lažje, ker so reševali eno železarno in so tam naročili nekaj, kar nihče ni potreboval, pri tem porabili kup energije in surovin in spustili v zrak cel kup CO2.
Fenomenalno. A ne bi bilo boljše, če bi delavce poslali na izobraževanje in jim medtem izplačali plače? Vsaj onesnaževali ne bi okolja z nepotrebnimi industrijskimi izpusti.
Glupa kapitalistično socialistična logika.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: zmaugy ()

windigo ::

Tole postaja zanimivo, oziroma malo bolj zares, čas za iti iskat kokice.

EU pravi, da bo ščitila evropska podjetja pred ameriškimi sankcijami zaradi trgovine z Iranom.
ZDA pravijo, da bodo uvedla sankcije proti podjetjem ki investirajo v in postavljajo Severni Tok 2.

Trump pa celo pričakuje, da mu bo Nemčija plačala razliko med svojim vojaškim proračunom in 2% BDP.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles...

Pac-Man ::

Idioti se igrajo z radioaktivnim materialom. Na srečo je Rusija dovolj velika.

Če so približno normalni, pa testirajo samo konvencionalni del.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/21/russian...

Russian President Vladimir Putin bragged earlier this year that his country had a new nuclear-powered missile with unlimited range — but it has yet to perform a successful test over multiple attempts, according to sources with direct knowledge of a U.S. intelligence report on the weapons program.

The cruise missile was tested four times between November and February, each resulting in a crash, according to sources who spoke to CNBC on the condition of anonymity.

The U.S. assessed that the longest test flight lasted just more than two minutes, with the missile flying 22 miles before losing control and crashing. The shortest test lasted four seconds and flew for five miles.

One report, according to the sources, did not mention health or environmental risks posed by damages to the missile's nuclear reactor.

The weapon, which has been in development since the early 2000s, is believed to use a gasoline-powered engine for takeoff before switching to a nuclear-powered one for flight, sources explained to CNBC.

The tests apparently showed that the nuclear-powered heart of the cruise missile failed to initiate and, therefore, the weapon was unable to achieve the indefinite flight Putin had boasted about.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

c3p0 ::

ZDA igranje z osiromašenim uranom je pa igra genijev?

tasotusire ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:

Idioti se igrajo z radioaktivnim materialom.


Če so taki idioti kaj je potem Hillary ki jim je te radioktivne materiale prodala?

zmaugy ::

c3p0 je izjavil:

ZDA igranje z osiromašenim uranom je pa igra genijev?

Not even close.

Cervantes ::

Experts in action.:D

Mr.B ::

Povečanje obolelosti za rekom, na območju veselice streljanja z osiromašenim uranom so neobstoječe, tako kot do nadavnega neobstoječe šrtve z napadi z droni.
Je pa seveda res, da so sedaj ti ljudje v demokraciji, pa je nadzor nad hrano in pijačo zaradi odprtosti toliko slabši.
France Rejects Genocide Accusations Against Israel in Gaza,
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold

Pac-Man ::

c3p0 je izjavil:

ZDA igranje z osiromašenim uranom je pa igra genijev?


osiromašen uran = rentgen
raketni motor na jedrski pogon = sprehod po černobilskem reaktorju št. 4
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Mr.B ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:

c3p0 je izjavil:

ZDA igranje z osiromašenim uranom je pa igra genijev?


osiromašen uran = rentgen
raketni motor na jedrski pogon = sprehod po černobilskem reaktorju št. 4

An expert.
France Rejects Genocide Accusations Against Israel in Gaza,
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold

Pac-Man ::

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-army-...

Soldiers and equipment from the US Army's 1st Armored Brigade Combat Team, from the 1st Cavalry Division based at Fort Hood in Texas, are arriving in Europe this week for a nine-month rotation in support of Operation Atlantic Resolve.

...

But the route the brigade is taking to its base points to another capability the US and its NATO partners are trying to boost: The ability to move around Europe on the ground.

...

Maj. Gen. Steven Shapiro, commander of 21st Theater Sustainment Command, which supports US military operations in Europe and Africa, said the vehicles will move across Europe via convoy, line-haul, river barge, and train. The Army has issued notices about planned movements by road and rail in western and eastern Germany.

...

The brigade will send about 2,500 pieces of equipment through Antwerp, including 87 M1 Abrams tanks, 138 armored personnel carriers, 18 Paladin self-propelled howitzers, and more than a thousand other vehicles.
"It's a totally different type of deployment," said brigade commander Col. Wilson Rutherford IV. "We could have gone into the port of Gdansk, [in Poland], which is much closer, but we wanted to exercise this port, exercise the barge movement, the line haul, and the convoys."

...

The US military's presence in Europe has steadily declined since the end of the Cold War. The US Army once had 300,000 soldiers stationed there, but that force dwindled to roughly 30,000. In April 2013, the US's last 22 Abrams tanks in Europe returned to the US, ending the Army's 69-year history of stationing main battle tanks there.

That absence was short-lived. In January 2014, 29 Abrams tanks arrived in Germany, joining other armored vehicles there for what were to be short stints in small formations.
That approach changed in early 2017, when the Iron Brigade arrived with tanks and armored vehicles for the first nine-month, back-to-back rotation.

...

A tangle of customs rules and local regulations have hamstrung movements across borders. Infrastructure issues — like bridges or roads not built to carry heavy armored vehicles — have also hindered operations, as have shortages of transports.

...

These problems led NATO to conclude in an internal report late last year that its ability to rapidly deploy around Europe had "atrophied since the end of the Cold War."

That report recommended setting up two new commands — one to oversee logistics operations in Europe, particularly in central and eastern Europe, and another to manage the shipment of personnel and supplies across the Atlantic.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Mr.B ::

Pac-Man, te vojake morajo nekam poslati. Cene v evropi so lahko cenejše, kot v Ameriki. Pa še dobro grejo na teren...
France Rejects Genocide Accusations Against Israel in Gaza,
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold

Pac-Man ::

Dobra.

https://twitter.com/chessninja/status/9...

Not hard to see why reform-minded former Soviet republics wanted into NATO asap. Horrifying to realize that there would be Russian forces in Vilnius, Riga, and Tallinn right now if they hadn't been admitted to NATO in 2004.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

zmaugy ::

Cervantes je izjavil:

Experts in action.:D

Ni treba bit ekspert, da vidiš težave pri motorju, ki ima radioaktivne izpušne pline, ki jih lahko sere globalno v primerjavi s precej neaktivnim lokalnim “onesnaženjem”.

Mr.B ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:

Dobra.

https://twitter.com/chessninja/status/9...

Not hard to see why reform-minded former Soviet republics wanted into NATO asap. Horrifying to realize that there would be Russian forces in Vilnius, Riga, and Tallinn right now if they hadn't been admitted to NATO in 2004.

Krim je Ruski. Kakršnakoli grafika ali grafikoni ti pri tem ne bo pomagali. Če ti misliš da naslednji Triljon orožja poslanega v Ukrajino bo rešil karkoli, no upaj dalje. Upam samo da bo pri tem trilijonu Evropa dodala svoj piskrček.
France Rejects Genocide Accusations Against Israel in Gaza,
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold

zmaugy ::

Dejmo malo špilat jasnovidce: ZDA in Rusija se bosta spičila in to na teritoriju EU. Nakar se bosta general Trump in Maršal Putin pobotala in si vzela vsak svoj kos, če bo še kaj ostalo.

zmaugy ::

Mimogrede bo rezultat dovolj prahu v zraku, da se bo omilil efekt segrevanja Zemlje za nekaj let.
Začetek bi pa znal bit Iran.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: zmaugy ()

windigo ::

zmaugy je izjavil:

Dejmo malo špilat jasnovidce: ZDA in Rusija se bosta spičila in to na teritoriju EU. Nakar se bosta general Trump in Maršal Putin pobotala in si vzela vsak svoj kos, če bo še kaj ostalo.

Dve proxy vojni bosta morda še pred tem prišli na vrsto: Levant in Perzija in pa Korejski polotok (btw. Smrekar1, kdo je tam zminiral pogajanja?).
Nenagradno vprašanje: ali bi neuspešna vpeljava sankcij s strani ZDA v teh dveh primerih povečala ali zmanjšala verjetnost neposrednega ameriškega vojaškega posredovanja?

tasotusire ::

zmaugy je izjavil:

Nakar se bosta general Trump in Maršal Putin pobotala in si vzela vsak svoj kos, če bo še kaj ostalo.


Kakšne pravljice. Generalni plan je poplava vseh belih držav z multikulturo, edino izrael ne, ker, zgolj naključje.

Čez 100 let bo evropa epicenter kanibalizma, kolere, aidsa in super gonjereje, kar naši gospodarji dobro vejo in danes ni nobene želje po temu da bi vladali tej bodoči luknji polni dreka.
Na planetu Afrika nikogar ne brigajo diamanti, zlato in nafta ker itak nihče ne zna nič z njimi.

Pac-Man ::

Raša za začetnike. Odličen video.

The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

zmaugy ::

tasotusire je izjavil:

zmaugy je izjavil:

Nakar se bosta general Trump in Maršal Putin pobotala in si vzela vsak svoj kos, če bo še kaj ostalo.


Kakšne pravljice. Generalni plan je poplava vseh belih držav z multikulturo, edino izrael ne, ker, zgolj naključje.

Čez 100 let bo evropa epicenter kanibalizma, kolere, aidsa in super gonjereje, kar naši gospodarji dobro vejo in danes ni nobene želje po temu da bi vladali tej bodoči luknji polni dreka.
Na planetu Afrika nikogar ne brigajo diamanti, zlato in nafta ker itak nihče ne zna nič z njimi.


Lepo prosim ne odgovarjaj na moje objave. Hvala.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: zmaugy ()

Pac-Man ::

Shit happens.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl...

Arkady Babchenko, a Russian journalist critical of the Kremlin, has been killed.

Mr Babchenko was shot at his apartment in Kiev on Tuesday evening.

...

A lawyer by education, the journalist was a two-time veteran of the Chechen conflict — first as a convict, and later as a contract soldier. It was there that he began his writing career, publishing a book on his experiences to critical acclaim.

Mr Babchenko left Russia for the Czech Republic in February 2017, citing unspecified threats. He later resettled in Ukraine.

...

It was understood that his critical reporting of the wars in Ukraine and Syria had contributed to this new danger assessment.

On Monday, the eve of his murder, the journalist wrote that an unidentified associate of President Putin had proposed killing him. Some time later, Mr Babchenko deleted the post, but a link to it remained.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Pac-Man ::

Sry, off, ampak morem.

https://twitter.com/ReaganBattalion/sta...

How could they have possibly predicted that adopting them as leaders of the MAGA movement was not going to end well????
:)
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Vazelin ::

http://www.rtvslo.si/svet/v-kijevu-ustr...
V ponedeljek, na predvečer svojega umora, je na družbenem omrežju zapisal, da je neimenovani Putinov sodelavec predlagal, da ga ubije. Po nekaj časa je Babčenko zapis izbrisal, a povezava do njega ostaja, piše Independent.


Nevarno je biti Putinov kritik novinar.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: Vazelin ()

Mr.B ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:

Shit happens.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl...

Arkady Babchenko, a Russian journalist critical of the Kremlin, has been killed.

Mr Babchenko was shot at his apartment in Kiev on Tuesday evening.

...

A lawyer by education, the journalist was a two-time veteran of the Chechen conflict — first as a convict, and later as a contract soldier. It was there that he began his writing career, publishing a book on his experiences to critical acclaim.

Mr Babchenko left Russia for the Czech Republic in February 2017, citing unspecified threats. He later resettled in Ukraine.

...

It was understood that his critical reporting of the wars in Ukraine and Syria had contributed to this new danger assessment.

On Monday, the eve of his murder, the journalist wrote that an unidentified associate of President Putin had proposed killing him. Some time later, Mr Babchenko deleted the post, but a link to it remained.

Russian journalist Arkady Babchenko, widely reported to have been assassinated in Kiev on Tuesday, is alive and well
France Rejects Genocide Accusations Against Israel in Gaza,
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold

T-h-o-r ::

Vazelin je izjavil:

http://www.rtvslo.si/svet/v-kijevu-ustr...
V ponedeljek, na predvečer svojega umora, je na družbenem omrežju zapisal, da je neimenovani Putinov sodelavec predlagal, da ga ubije. Po nekaj časa je Babčenko zapis izbrisal, a povezava do njega ostaja, piše Independent.


Nevarno je biti Putinov kritik novinar.

zelo nevarno
celo tako nevarno, da si je treba kar zmisliti, da je bil umorjen
Why have a civilization anymore
if we no longer are interested in being civilized?

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: T-h-o-r ()

windigo ::

V Ukrajini nimajo več samo lažnega poročanja, ampak že kar lažne dogodke. Aja, zakaj me že to čudi?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-4...

7tom1ja ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:

Shit happens.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl...

Arkady Babchenko, a Russian journalist critical of the Kremlin, has been killed.

Mr Babchenko was shot at his apartment in Kiev on Tuesday evening.

...

A lawyer by education, the journalist was a two-time veteran of the Chechen conflict — first as a convict, and later as a contract soldier. It was there that he began his writing career, publishing a book on his experiences to critical acclaim.

Mr Babchenko left Russia for the Czech Republic in February 2017, citing unspecified threats. He later resettled in Ukraine.

...

It was understood that his critical reporting of the wars in Ukraine and Syria had contributed to this new danger assessment.

On Monday, the eve of his murder, the journalist wrote that an unidentified associate of President Putin had proposed killing him. Some time later, Mr Babchenko deleted the post, but a link to it remained.


he he, ja res shit happens
Na nas leži naloga, da naprej razvijamo našo samoupravno socialistično družbo,
da jo gradimo na revolucionarnih temeljih, temeljih marksizma.
Brigada AVNOJ 77;Komisar Ivan Janša

papasmrk ::

Primer Arkadija Babčenka pa pokaže kako se ukrajinci precej šalabajzersko lotijo demonizirati Rusijo.
Britanci so se na primeru Skripala vsaj toliko potrudil, da so tisti IQ under 80 verjeli, da za tem stoji rusija. Nimaš kaj...rusi so žilavi in preživijo tudi zastrupitev z "deadliest nerve agents ever made".
Za komentiranje se moraš prijaviti

Smrekar1 ::

papasmrk je izjavil:


Britanci so se na primeru Skripala vsaj toliko potrudil, da so tisti IQ under 80 verjeli, da za tem stoji rusija. Nimaš kaj...rusi so žilavi in preživijo tudi zastrupitev z "deadliest nerve agents ever made".


Trditev zgoraj je na nivoju morda ne ravno ploske Zemlje, ampak vsekakor vsaj geocentričnosti vesolja.

Paracelsus @ Wikipedia

c3p0 ::

papasmrk je izjavil:

Primer Arkadija Babčenka pa pokaže kako se ukrajinci precej šalabajzersko lotijo demonizirati Rusijo.


Paco je šel na izobraževanje, kako bo zdaj vse skupaj nekako zaspinnal na Rusijo? Tough cookie...
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