Novice » Ostale najave » Kaj pomeni drseči tečaj juana za cene elektronike
KaRkY ::
Se deleno strinjam z vsemi ampak kapitalizem je slab. Noben človek nebi smel živet v revščini vsi bi mogli met delo in vsaj toliko da lahko živiš kot človek ne pa ko žival. Malo poglejte kaj se dogaja z našimi južnimi delavci niti toliko denarja nimajo da bi se lahko vrnili domu 120EUR najemnine plačujejo za stanovanje kjer je 20 ali več ljudi not kopalnice so katastrofa.
To kopičenje denarja pri peščici se mora končat ker v parih letih nebo več srednjega sloja ampak še samo bogati in revni. Pa potrebno je zamenja celotno slovensko vlado od predsednika do monistrov in županov. V parlamentu rabimo nove obraze ker stari so pokazali da neznajo.
To kopičenje denarja pri peščici se mora končat ker v parih letih nebo več srednjega sloja ampak še samo bogati in revni. Pa potrebno je zamenja celotno slovensko vlado od predsednika do monistrov in županov. V parlamentu rabimo nove obraze ker stari so pokazali da neznajo.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks into you
opeter ::
Se deleno strinjam z vsemi ampak kapitalizem je slab. Noben človek nebi smel živet v revščini vsi bi mogli met delo in vsaj toliko da lahko živiš kot človek ne pa ko žival. Malo poglejte kaj se dogaja z našimi južnimi delavci niti toliko denarja nimajo da bi se lahko vrnili domu 120EUR najemnine plačujejo za stanovanje kjer je 20 ali več ljudi not kopalnice so katastrofa.
To kopičenje denarja pri peščici se mora končat ker v parih letih nebo več srednjega sloja ampak še samo bogati in revni. Pa potrebno je zamenja celotno slovensko vlado od predsednika do monistrov in županov. V parlamentu rabimo nove obraze ker stari so pokazali da neznajo.
Hmm... ampak saj je razlika tudi v naravi.
Močnejši plenilec lahko več poje, kot drugi, torej (psihično/fizično) slabši plenilec.
Zakaj? Ker pride prej do plena, slabiča pa odžene. Na koncu ostane glodanje in lizanje kosti le tistim, ki niso pravočasno prišlo do plena.
Hrabri mišek (od 2015 nova serija!) -> http://tinyurl.com/na7r54l
18. november 2011 - Umrl je Mark Hall, "oče" Hrabrega miška
RTVSLO: http://tinyurl.com/74r9n7j
18. november 2011 - Umrl je Mark Hall, "oče" Hrabrega miška
RTVSLO: http://tinyurl.com/74r9n7j
KaRkY ::
Glej mi nismo živali(no biološko ja) dajmo se obnašat civilizirano. Osnovna pravica človeka je da lahko živi in nekatera podjetja kratijo to pravico s tem ko ti delaš pa še vedno nena dovolj zaslužiš da bi lahko živel.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks into you
nekikr ::
Seveda lahko živiš. Zajamčena minimalna plača je napisana tukaj in to omogoča res osnovno preživetje. Če hočeš več od tega se pa potrudi in to dosezi. Če si len in se ti ne da, potem ti pa tudi jaz od mojega kosa pogače ne bom nič odstopil.
KaRkY ::
Povej mi kak naj neka šivilja 40-50 let stara z boleznijo rok, ki dela na eni firmi ki je nebom omenjal, zasluži več kot 400EUR neto. Povprečna plača šivilje tam je 400EUR neto plus dodadtki pride na kakih 480EUR. Zaj mi povej kak se naj bolj potrudi kaj naj dela več aja nemore ma bolezen rok zdravniki pa jo pošiljajo delat.
To govorim iz lastnih izkušenj ker moja mama dela na eni taki firmi. In nehaj bluzit z takimi9 če si len ker je lahko nekdo hudo delovni človek pa ga take oderuške firme pripeljejo na rob preživetja. Pa to se ne dogaja le izjemam ampak kr veliko ljudem v sloveniji. Glej malo poročila pa kaj si in še delajo podjetja kot so prevent, vegrad, mura itd. pa mi povej če je to normalno.
PS. Moj ata dela v železarni pa ma malo čez 700EUR mama sedaj par mesecev ne dela več ker je zaradi bolezni rok nesposobna opravljati kakeršnokoli delo edino delo ki bi ga lahko delala je pogovarjanje z starejšimi osebami. Sedaj pa mi povej kak naj zaslužita več ata 700EUR mama 234EUR iz spiza to je 1000EUR na mesec. Računi so 300EUR mislim da prevoz za v službo 300EUR ostalo pa poje kredit za avto pa hrana. To je za mene komaj preživeti ne pa dostojno življenje.
To govorim iz lastnih izkušenj ker moja mama dela na eni taki firmi. In nehaj bluzit z takimi9 če si len ker je lahko nekdo hudo delovni človek pa ga take oderuške firme pripeljejo na rob preživetja. Pa to se ne dogaja le izjemam ampak kr veliko ljudem v sloveniji. Glej malo poročila pa kaj si in še delajo podjetja kot so prevent, vegrad, mura itd. pa mi povej če je to normalno.
PS. Moj ata dela v železarni pa ma malo čez 700EUR mama sedaj par mesecev ne dela več ker je zaradi bolezni rok nesposobna opravljati kakeršnokoli delo edino delo ki bi ga lahko delala je pogovarjanje z starejšimi osebami. Sedaj pa mi povej kak naj zaslužita več ata 700EUR mama 234EUR iz spiza to je 1000EUR na mesec. Računi so 300EUR mislim da prevoz za v službo 300EUR ostalo pa poje kredit za avto pa hrana. To je za mene komaj preživeti ne pa dostojno življenje.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks into you
nekikr ::
1. Tvoja mama bi si lahko že leta nazaj, ko je bila še sposobna, iskala drugo zaposlitev. Lahko bi končala kakšno šolo, v kolikor je imela možnosti v mladih letih, pa bi imela boljša izhodišča za življenje. Ker današnja družba ni striktno kapitalistična, dobi nadomestilo za brezposelnost in če je res nesposobna za delo, v kratkem invalidsko pokojnino. Resnično je to na robu preživetja ampak vsak pač ne more in ne sme imeti vsega, ker potem nihče ne bi imel nič.
1.1 300EUR za prevoz v službo? A se oče vsak dan iz Maribora v Koper pelje ali kako? Tudi če se nima veze, ker ima plačan prevoz na delo in malico.
2. Kredit za avto. Ne poznam te in ne bom govoril kako je pri vas doma. Osebno pa poznam nekaj ljudi, ki so na robu preživetja samo zato, ker so si na kredit vzeli avto, ki je daleč nad njihovimi prihodki in sedaj delajo samo še za avto.
Veš, poznam ljudi, ki skoz in skoz ponavljajo kako ta država samo jemlje (kar je sigurno res) in kako da ne moreš do svojega stanovanja in avta, kako da je vse drago in da tudi če hočeš ne moreš itd. Potem pa vprašam: "Ja, imaš prav. Pa drugače, si fax že zaključil?" in odgovor je ponavadi nekaj v tem stilu: "ma ne, veš kaj, ne da se mi, sploh ne najdem volje. Bom mogoče drug let, sj mam še dve leti status pa to...".
Jaz sem že zdavnaj imel začrtan plan, ki se ga držim in mi uspeva. Drugi, ki so leni, pa jamrajo kako da nič ne moreš. Krivi so si pa čisto sami. Da se, samo človek moraš biti za to in imeti odpre oči. Pa videti dlje od jutranje kavice in čika.
1.1 300EUR za prevoz v službo? A se oče vsak dan iz Maribora v Koper pelje ali kako? Tudi če se nima veze, ker ima plačan prevoz na delo in malico.
2. Kredit za avto. Ne poznam te in ne bom govoril kako je pri vas doma. Osebno pa poznam nekaj ljudi, ki so na robu preživetja samo zato, ker so si na kredit vzeli avto, ki je daleč nad njihovimi prihodki in sedaj delajo samo še za avto.
Veš, poznam ljudi, ki skoz in skoz ponavljajo kako ta država samo jemlje (kar je sigurno res) in kako da ne moreš do svojega stanovanja in avta, kako da je vse drago in da tudi če hočeš ne moreš itd. Potem pa vprašam: "Ja, imaš prav. Pa drugače, si fax že zaključil?" in odgovor je ponavadi nekaj v tem stilu: "ma ne, veš kaj, ne da se mi, sploh ne najdem volje. Bom mogoče drug let, sj mam še dve leti status pa to...".
Jaz sem že zdavnaj imel začrtan plan, ki se ga držim in mi uspeva. Drugi, ki so leni, pa jamrajo kako da nič ne moreš. Krivi so si pa čisto sami. Da se, samo človek moraš biti za to in imeti odpre oči. Pa videti dlje od jutranje kavice in čika.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: nekikr ()
KaRkY ::
1. Ni mela možnosti šolanja ker si je sama plačevala potrebščine in je za njih denar zaslužila z prodajanje gob ki jih je v gozdu nabrala. Takoj po končani šoli se je morala zaposliti in ni imela več možnosti šolanja zaradi delavnika v službi. Pri očetu je blo nekaj podobnega ampak takrat ko se je oče zaposlil je mel tako plačo da je sam lahko preživljal svojo mamo, mojo mamo, brata, sestro in sebe pa ostalo mu je veliko. Aja pa ti praviš da je 234EUR dovolj za preživetje to je komaj položnica za elektriko pa nekaj malega hrane.
1.1 Prevoz je vštet v tistih 700EUR in ja vozi se vsaki dan 90km plus če še greš h komu na obisk in podobno. Še sam dajem 150EUR za bencin pa se vozim 40km na dan.
2. Brez avta nemore priti v službo in nemore delati pri njegovih letih pa tudi službe nemore zamenjati ker je prestar da bi ga kdo zaposlil. Aja pa pa avto ni tako hudo drag ampak je nujno da je vsaj spodobni avto da ga nimaš na servisu vsaki tedn pa da pri 30000km do 40000km na leto še vedno preživi.
Sam mam tudi začrtan plan ampak mi nebi uspel če me nebi starša podpirala psihično in finančno tako kot sta me. In sem zaključni letnih faxa 1 izpit pa diploma še potem pa delat. Nasljednje leto pa mogoče magisterij izredno. Kake 2 meseca pa že finančno podpiram starša z delom preko študenta.
1.1 Prevoz je vštet v tistih 700EUR in ja vozi se vsaki dan 90km plus če še greš h komu na obisk in podobno. Še sam dajem 150EUR za bencin pa se vozim 40km na dan.
2. Brez avta nemore priti v službo in nemore delati pri njegovih letih pa tudi službe nemore zamenjati ker je prestar da bi ga kdo zaposlil. Aja pa pa avto ni tako hudo drag ampak je nujno da je vsaj spodobni avto da ga nimaš na servisu vsaki tedn pa da pri 30000km do 40000km na leto še vedno preživi.
Sam mam tudi začrtan plan ampak mi nebi uspel če me nebi starša podpirala psihično in finančno tako kot sta me. In sem zaključni letnih faxa 1 izpit pa diploma še potem pa delat. Nasljednje leto pa mogoče magisterij izredno. Kake 2 meseca pa že finančno podpiram starša z delom preko študenta.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks into you
nekikr ::
1. Moj oče je nabiral borovnice, da se je lahko preživljal, pa mu je potem uspelo. Vedno je možnost. Da je bil delavnik tak, da ni bilo možnosti je buča. Razen če je bila vklenjena v tovarni in je ni smela zapustiti. 234EUR ni dovolj in tvoja mati bi jih dobila dosti več, če bi bila sama. Ker je zraven še oče je pa znesek tak kot je. Še enkrat: ni bogatija, to je res samo za preživetje ampak NE SME vsak imeti vsega, ker bi to pomenilo, da nima nihče nič. Reveži so vedno bili in dokler se mišljenje vseh ljudi ne obrne (ne zadržuj diha za tole) ne bo nič boljše.
1.1 Oče naj gre iz službe. Več kot 400EUR bo dobil če bo brezposeln, če daje res toliko za bencin, ki je vštet v teh 700EUR.
2. Daj prosim vseeno povej kateri avto je to. Ker recimo Kakšen Clio za 4-5k EUR dela super, porabo ima izjemno majhno...
1.1 Oče naj gre iz službe. Več kot 400EUR bo dobil če bo brezposeln, če daje res toliko za bencin, ki je vštet v teh 700EUR.
2. Daj prosim vseeno povej kateri avto je to. Ker recimo Kakšen Clio za 4-5k EUR dela super, porabo ima izjemno majhno...
KaRkY ::
@nekikr
Ni vedno vse tako lahko kot se na prvi pogled zdi. Ja je to samo za preživetje je pa daleč od spodobnega življenja to točno toliko da nena umreš. Sanje da bi več kot 400EUR dobil mogoče oba skupaj ampak še vedno to ni spodobno življenje.
Ima pa fiat stilo 7000EUR na cesto postavljen plus ob nakupu je bilo vse skupaj bolše v zadnih 2 letih pa se je katastrofalno poslabšalo zaradi mamine in očetove bolezni.
Ni vedno vse tako lahko kot se na prvi pogled zdi. Ja je to samo za preživetje je pa daleč od spodobnega življenja to točno toliko da nena umreš. Sanje da bi več kot 400EUR dobil mogoče oba skupaj ampak še vedno to ni spodobno življenje.
Ima pa fiat stilo 7000EUR na cesto postavljen plus ob nakupu je bilo vse skupaj bolše v zadnih 2 letih pa se je katastrofalno poslabšalo zaradi mamine in očetove bolezni.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks into you
HeMan ::
Res majo težko vsi enako, samo neko zgornjo mejo bi pa loh postavili. Res ne vem, kako nekdo ki ima po 20 vil in 20 dragih športnih avtomobilov koristi družbi :) S pol manj bi lahko živel enako razkošno, ta denar bi se pa za kaj drugega porabil. Ni najbolj smiselno razporejen denar po svetu.
Bistri007 ::
S pol manj bi lahko živel enako razkošno, ta denar bi se pa za kaj drugega porabil. Ni najbolj smiselno razporejen denar po svetu.Kdo pa pravi, da tak ne razda več kot polovice svojega dohodka za dobrodelne dejavnosti oziroma to naredi s premoženjem v oporoki?
Res majo težko vsi enako, samo neko zgornjo mejo bi pa loh postavili. Res ne vem, kako nekdo ki ima po 20 vil in 20 dragih športnih avtomobilov koristi družbi :)Če to premoženje ni bilo pridobljeno s kriminalom, potem je ta človek ustvaril še veliko delovnih mest. Tudi če ne bi nič dal v dobrodelne namene, prispeva v obliki davkov in ustvarjenih delovnih mest za dobrobit družbe veliko več kot navaden delavec.
KaRkY, vsak je svoje sreče kovač. V končni fazi lahko živiš samo od tega, kar si si ustvaril ali privarčeval za stara leta. Matematika ne vzdrži, da bi vsi živeli na račun drugega. Je pa v redu, če je dobro povezana družina, kjer eden drugemu pomaga. V veliko bolje je tudi, če se denar med generacijami pretaka preko družine in lokalnih skupnosti kot pa da je vmes brezčutna in hladna birokracija, od DURS do ZPIZ in CSD. Čustvena in moralna podpora veliko pomenijo.
Največja napaka desetletja je bila narejena 4. novembra 2008
Oni so goljufali in Alah je goljufal, Alah je najboljši prevarant. (Koran 3:54)
Citiraj svetega očeta Benedikta XVI. in postani "persona rudis"...
Oni so goljufali in Alah je goljufal, Alah je najboljši prevarant. (Koran 3:54)
Citiraj svetega očeta Benedikta XVI. in postani "persona rudis"...
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenilo: Bistri007 ()
rezator ::
Pri trenutnem gospodarstvu je jasno kaj je njegovo gonilo. Dobiček in samo dobiček. Vse ostalo (kot na primer napredek) je samo izgovor za še večji dobiček.
Vse kar se dogaja na trgu je podrejeno temu cilju. Svobodni trg je kar lepo reguliran s strani velikih korporacij. Zelo preprosto za razumet.
lepo povedano!
Some people feel the rain. Others just get wet.
Manu ::
Manu: ne bom citiral tvojih stavkov, ker ne odgovarjaš na neposredna vprašanja. Bi ti pa rekel samo to, da socializem, v kakršnikoli obliki že, ne more delovati zaradi narave ljudi. Nekdo je zadovoljen s Cliom, nekdo z BMW 7. Dajmo temu, ki hoče več, priložnost, da se dokaže in zasluži več. To kar hočeš ti, da podjetja delajo z ničelnim ali minimalnim zaslužkom je nekako slično s srednjim vekom, ko smo vrgli stran 600 let razvoja, ljudje pa so ves ta čas živeli v bedi. Kapitalizem (ki je najmanj slab od vseh preizkušenih sistemov) omogoča, da ljudje naredimo več, izumljamo stvari s pospešenim tempom in morda nekoč pridemo na tehnološko stopnjo, ko bo nek socializem lahko prišel prav. Dokler pa je tako kot je, je tale uredite na žalost prava.
Tako kot tisto ljudstvo s Kavkaza, ki živi preprosto in dolgo življenje in so zadovoljni.
Na tole se pa moram obregniti: vsak afričan iz necivilizirane vasi je popotnikom priznal, da bi imel tudi on boljše obleke, puško. Ko bi videl prednosti televizije, interneta in telefona bi hotel tudi to. Da o avtomobilih in letalih ne govorim. Na boljše stvari se vsi izredno hitro privadimo. Potem pa hočemo še več. Zakaj? Ker je taka naša narava. In s socialno demokracijo omejiti nekoga, da ima, kljub svojim velikim željam ravno toliko, kot nekdo, ki mu je dovolj voda in zrak ni pošteno, ni pravično in tak sistem je obsojen na propad.
Jaz govorim o socialni demokraciji in ne socializmu. Problem je, ker me napačno razumeš. Mogoče nimaš dovolj časa, da prebereš bistva mojega pisanja in bi videl, da nimam proti temu, da kdor dela naj tudi zasluženo ima. Absolutno sem proti temu, da se podpira lenoba!
V kapitalizmu na žalost ni povezave med delom in zaslužkom. Nekdo je lahko priden in delaven v nekem podjetju, a bo dobil minimalno plačo, medtem, ko bo nekdo iskal luknje v zakonu in iskal poti za hitrejši zaslužek in to na način, da izkorišča delavca, ki za njega dela. Razumeš kaj želim povedat? Tega je v Sloveniji precej in nedavne novice so dokaz temu. Denar kar nekam odteka po nekih kanalih neznano kam, medtem, ko delavec potegne ta kratko, ker ni denarja za izplačilo plač. Takega izkoriščanja je veliko preveč po celem svetu. In to kapitalizem dopušča. To ni v redu.
Ni problem v tem, da nekdo ima, ker veliko dela, problem je v tem, da se za do hitrega zaslužka pride preko izkoriščanja sočloveka (njegovega neznanja o poslu). To danes predstavlja kapitalizem. Uničuj naravo, podplačaj delavca, izogibaj se davkov ... vse samo za zaslužek.
Socialna demokracija je za socialo (ljudje so pomembni) in demokracijo (ljudje imajo moč za odločanje).
Kapitalizem pa je ravno nasprotje: ljudje so tu, da kupujejo stvari ter da se jih izkorišča in "ljudje so neumne ovce", ki potrebujejo vodstvo in sami ne znajo odločati.
Kapitalizem na splošno na svetovni ravni gledano (in tudi lokalno v posamezni državi) deluje preveč ločevalno. Zaradi tega je kapitalizem v krizi in v prihodnje ne bo mogel obstati s takim načinom delovanja.
Manu ::
Izvleček predavanja ekonomista Raj Patela, ki je precej dejaven na področju trga hrane:
Haiti is a perfect example of how market fundamentalism destroyed an economy. At the beginning of the 1980s Haiti grew the majority of its own rice. But people in Haiti wanted a left-wing government, and two U.S. presidents didn’t think that was a good idea. Presidents Reagan and Clinton negotiated for Haiti a structural adjustment loan from the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. Haiti, a very indebted country, would be given money in order to pay off its debts, on the condition that it open its economy to the free-market-knows-best mentality.
The trouble is there is no free market. There’s no free market in food for sure. You have Haitian rice farmers who earn two dollars a day if they’re lucky, competing against U.S. rice farmers who get a billion dollars a year in subsidy. It’s not surprising that Haitian rice farmers first panic and try to produce more rice just to be able to survive, and then in the end, give up to become sweatshop workers in the city…
Work and labor are somehow different from anything else that goes into a good, because labor transforms something from being a static inanimate part of nature into something that has much more value. This labor theory of value is why Adam Smith thought that the real value of anything was essentially the trouble that went into the making of it. Smith also had a much more sophisticated idea of how the economy was structured so that workers were systematically different from landowners who, in turn, were systematically different from merchants, who profited from the employment of laborers.
Karl Marx took that idea much further and systematized it much more thoughtfully into an explanation of why capitalism looks the way it does, and why modern capitalism is always going to externalize environmental costs while internalizing the profits.
Marx also made another point that I think is tremendously important, which is that modern capitalism doesn’t pay for household work. Modern capitalism doesn’t pay for the business of making new workers. Bringing up kids, educating them, and building new community won’t be paid for by capitalism because that’s a subsidy that capitalism needs in order to survive. Some U.N. researchers figured out that women’s unpaid work (in 1995) would cost $17 trillion if we were to pay market value — pretty much half the total world output. Yet women own less than 10 percent of the world’s resources in developing countries and less than 10 percent of the land. And this is not an accident, it’s integral to the way the system works…
The question of what causes collapse versus sustainability is something we’re increasingly interested in. The latest Nobel Prize in economics was won by a woman for the first time, Ellen Ostrum, in part for her work on the commons. What she found should shock us a little bit. While human beings are of course selfish and greedy, it turns out that we are also cooperative and altruistic and generous and capable of negotiating agreements that we in general abide by. And if we don’t abide by them, we also have regimes of punishment that make sure that fairness is maintained.
A recent study in the proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences looked at how different forest communities manage their forests. Forest communities that had enough forest to be able to use it sustainably, and that also had autonomy — with neither the private sector nor the government involved — did better. Not only did they have higher levels of welfare and development indicators, but they also sequestered more carbon. They managed the forest so that they were able to lock away carbon that benefits all of us. Despite being selfish and greedy, they were also good at living with the economic consequences of their actions and learning from them. And that’s something that markets don’t teach us how to do…
This is the example that captures people’s imaginations. We’re familiar with paying $4 for a double cheeseburger, but what we’re not familiar with is the way in which the corporation that produced that food has managed to squeeze out the hidden costs.
Some researchers in India asked if we were to value the rainforest that was destroyed so that cattle could be raised on that land, how much would it cost? We lose biodiversity, we lose the nutrient cycles of the rainforest, we lose carbon, we lose the oxygen being produced — and we can impute a dollar value to that. It turns out that our $4 hamburger would cost $200. That’s just the environmental costs and doesn’t include the hidden costs of labor in the food.
In the U.S. our burgers come with tomatoes, and in the winter those tomatoes will likely come from Florida, and chances are that the people who are picking those tomatoes are getting paid pennies for a 48-pound bucket of tomatoes.
Since 1997 in the U.S. over 1,000 people have been freed from conditions of modern-day slavery under articles that constituted abolition. Workers were being paid pennies for a day’s work, and then forced to pay for things like showers. When you’re working with pesticides every day, you need a shower. Some people found it cheaper to wash their hands with bleach than to pay for a shower. That features in the price of a hamburger…
You began by quoting Dr. King, who described himself as a democratic socialist. Dr. King didn’t just say we need more regulation, he was actually engaged in the politics of practical change. Organizing the poor people’s campaign was a direct response to asking the questions: Why do we live in a world of poverty? Why does capitalism reign with such awesome power?
It’s important for us to realize that in the U.S. we don’t really live in a proper democracy. We live in a kind of complain-ocracy, where every two years we have the chance to boot out officials who have disappointed us and replace them with officials who have yet to disappoint us.
We don’t have the kind of thriving democracy that Athens did 2,400 years ago. I don’t want to live in 2,400-years-ago Athens, but I do think it’s interesting that in the birthplace of democracy, there were never any elections. Electoral politics has nothing to do with democracy. In Athens, governments were elected at random through a lottery. At the beginning of every year 6,000 people were chosen to become the government, and after that year they were disbanded and another 6,000 were chosen. People who did not want to be part of that governing procedure were called idiots.
There are communities today where that kind of democracy is taken very seriously. The Zapatistas in Southern Mexico are a good example. But you don’t have to go to Southern Mexico to find really exciting movements. La Via Campesina, an International peasant movement of 150 million, has members in the United States, including the Coalition of Immokalee Workers in Southern Florida and the National Family Farm Coalition.
What’s missing in our economy, they argue, is the right to have rights. If you’re rich in a free market, you can get great health care, you can travel, you can do whatever you like…
Movements like La Via Campesina say, “If we’re going to have rights, we need equality in power. We need a democracy where it’s possible for every voice to be counted.” Within the fight for food sovereignty they call for an end to all forms of violence against women — and that’s an amazing jump…
In our accelerated world and our accelerated politics where decisions need to be made instantly and there’s no room for reasoned debate, we never get to the roots of anything. We never get to the roots of the word radical.
We don’t have time for that, and we need to make time. It would be futile to expect our politicians in Washington to do that. But at a community level in the U.S. right now, particularly in the food movement but in many other movements as well, I’m seeing people asking root cause questions, just as Dr. King did. Asking tough questions and coming up with answers — that to me is democracy at work, and it’s very hopeful…
But if you’re not interested in food [Raj's focus], that’s okay, there’s something you’re passionate about, whether it’s health care or transitioning away from our unsustainable carbon world into something much better. If you’re interested in education or criminal justice or the prison system, there are people organizing in your community right now. All it takes is a few minutes of Web searching, or go to your local library because librarians are the gods of information — there is no more noble profession. Ask around, people will know. Ask around in your church, in your local farmer’s market. Whatever movement you’re interested in, they’ll be able to hook you up.
There’s always a space in which you can make democracy flourish and it begins with you.
Haiti is a perfect example of how market fundamentalism destroyed an economy. At the beginning of the 1980s Haiti grew the majority of its own rice. But people in Haiti wanted a left-wing government, and two U.S. presidents didn’t think that was a good idea. Presidents Reagan and Clinton negotiated for Haiti a structural adjustment loan from the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. Haiti, a very indebted country, would be given money in order to pay off its debts, on the condition that it open its economy to the free-market-knows-best mentality.
The trouble is there is no free market. There’s no free market in food for sure. You have Haitian rice farmers who earn two dollars a day if they’re lucky, competing against U.S. rice farmers who get a billion dollars a year in subsidy. It’s not surprising that Haitian rice farmers first panic and try to produce more rice just to be able to survive, and then in the end, give up to become sweatshop workers in the city…
Work and labor are somehow different from anything else that goes into a good, because labor transforms something from being a static inanimate part of nature into something that has much more value. This labor theory of value is why Adam Smith thought that the real value of anything was essentially the trouble that went into the making of it. Smith also had a much more sophisticated idea of how the economy was structured so that workers were systematically different from landowners who, in turn, were systematically different from merchants, who profited from the employment of laborers.
Karl Marx took that idea much further and systematized it much more thoughtfully into an explanation of why capitalism looks the way it does, and why modern capitalism is always going to externalize environmental costs while internalizing the profits.
Marx also made another point that I think is tremendously important, which is that modern capitalism doesn’t pay for household work. Modern capitalism doesn’t pay for the business of making new workers. Bringing up kids, educating them, and building new community won’t be paid for by capitalism because that’s a subsidy that capitalism needs in order to survive. Some U.N. researchers figured out that women’s unpaid work (in 1995) would cost $17 trillion if we were to pay market value — pretty much half the total world output. Yet women own less than 10 percent of the world’s resources in developing countries and less than 10 percent of the land. And this is not an accident, it’s integral to the way the system works…
The question of what causes collapse versus sustainability is something we’re increasingly interested in. The latest Nobel Prize in economics was won by a woman for the first time, Ellen Ostrum, in part for her work on the commons. What she found should shock us a little bit. While human beings are of course selfish and greedy, it turns out that we are also cooperative and altruistic and generous and capable of negotiating agreements that we in general abide by. And if we don’t abide by them, we also have regimes of punishment that make sure that fairness is maintained.
A recent study in the proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences looked at how different forest communities manage their forests. Forest communities that had enough forest to be able to use it sustainably, and that also had autonomy — with neither the private sector nor the government involved — did better. Not only did they have higher levels of welfare and development indicators, but they also sequestered more carbon. They managed the forest so that they were able to lock away carbon that benefits all of us. Despite being selfish and greedy, they were also good at living with the economic consequences of their actions and learning from them. And that’s something that markets don’t teach us how to do…
This is the example that captures people’s imaginations. We’re familiar with paying $4 for a double cheeseburger, but what we’re not familiar with is the way in which the corporation that produced that food has managed to squeeze out the hidden costs.
Some researchers in India asked if we were to value the rainforest that was destroyed so that cattle could be raised on that land, how much would it cost? We lose biodiversity, we lose the nutrient cycles of the rainforest, we lose carbon, we lose the oxygen being produced — and we can impute a dollar value to that. It turns out that our $4 hamburger would cost $200. That’s just the environmental costs and doesn’t include the hidden costs of labor in the food.
In the U.S. our burgers come with tomatoes, and in the winter those tomatoes will likely come from Florida, and chances are that the people who are picking those tomatoes are getting paid pennies for a 48-pound bucket of tomatoes.
Since 1997 in the U.S. over 1,000 people have been freed from conditions of modern-day slavery under articles that constituted abolition. Workers were being paid pennies for a day’s work, and then forced to pay for things like showers. When you’re working with pesticides every day, you need a shower. Some people found it cheaper to wash their hands with bleach than to pay for a shower. That features in the price of a hamburger…
You began by quoting Dr. King, who described himself as a democratic socialist. Dr. King didn’t just say we need more regulation, he was actually engaged in the politics of practical change. Organizing the poor people’s campaign was a direct response to asking the questions: Why do we live in a world of poverty? Why does capitalism reign with such awesome power?
It’s important for us to realize that in the U.S. we don’t really live in a proper democracy. We live in a kind of complain-ocracy, where every two years we have the chance to boot out officials who have disappointed us and replace them with officials who have yet to disappoint us.
We don’t have the kind of thriving democracy that Athens did 2,400 years ago. I don’t want to live in 2,400-years-ago Athens, but I do think it’s interesting that in the birthplace of democracy, there were never any elections. Electoral politics has nothing to do with democracy. In Athens, governments were elected at random through a lottery. At the beginning of every year 6,000 people were chosen to become the government, and after that year they were disbanded and another 6,000 were chosen. People who did not want to be part of that governing procedure were called idiots.
There are communities today where that kind of democracy is taken very seriously. The Zapatistas in Southern Mexico are a good example. But you don’t have to go to Southern Mexico to find really exciting movements. La Via Campesina, an International peasant movement of 150 million, has members in the United States, including the Coalition of Immokalee Workers in Southern Florida and the National Family Farm Coalition.
What’s missing in our economy, they argue, is the right to have rights. If you’re rich in a free market, you can get great health care, you can travel, you can do whatever you like…
Movements like La Via Campesina say, “If we’re going to have rights, we need equality in power. We need a democracy where it’s possible for every voice to be counted.” Within the fight for food sovereignty they call for an end to all forms of violence against women — and that’s an amazing jump…
In our accelerated world and our accelerated politics where decisions need to be made instantly and there’s no room for reasoned debate, we never get to the roots of anything. We never get to the roots of the word radical.
We don’t have time for that, and we need to make time. It would be futile to expect our politicians in Washington to do that. But at a community level in the U.S. right now, particularly in the food movement but in many other movements as well, I’m seeing people asking root cause questions, just as Dr. King did. Asking tough questions and coming up with answers — that to me is democracy at work, and it’s very hopeful…
But if you’re not interested in food [Raj's focus], that’s okay, there’s something you’re passionate about, whether it’s health care or transitioning away from our unsustainable carbon world into something much better. If you’re interested in education or criminal justice or the prison system, there are people organizing in your community right now. All it takes is a few minutes of Web searching, or go to your local library because librarians are the gods of information — there is no more noble profession. Ask around, people will know. Ask around in your church, in your local farmer’s market. Whatever movement you’re interested in, they’ll be able to hook you up.
There’s always a space in which you can make democracy flourish and it begins with you.
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