Forum » Loža » Povprečni IQ gimnazijcev
Povprečni IQ gimnazijcev
mr_chai ::
Normalno, po drugi strani mora nek doktor res izstopat, da bo prilezel iz povprečja (doktorjev).
Keramičar ima veliko slabšo konkurenco.
Ljudje podcenjujete sreco. Ze kraj rojstva ti lahko prinese veliko prednsoti, ali ovir. Druzina v katero si se rodil je tudi izrednega pomena. V koncno fazi te nekdo mora vzgojiti in ti omogociti izkoristiti potencial.
Sej vem, na slo techu so sami junaski borci, ki jih je mati v Avganistanu vrgla v jarek ob cesti, pa so cudezno preziveli, se privlekli do Slovenije, dokoncali solanje in so sedaj top shit.
Ja, ta mati. Mene je sicer vrgla v jarek v Nigeriji. Sem se moral plaziti to Tunizije in preplavati sredozemsko morje, da sem prišel do Kopra, kjer sem se sprehodil do Ljubljane in vpisal v vrtec.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- predlagal izbris: BRBR ()
kow ::
tikitoki ::
Normalno, po drugi strani mora nek doktor res izstopat, da bo prilezel iz povprečja (doktorjev).
Keramičar ima veliko slabšo konkurenco.
Ljudje podcenjujete sreco. Ze kraj rojstva ti lahko prinese veliko prednsoti, ali ovir. Druzina v katero si se rodil je tudi izrednega pomena. V koncno fazi te nekdo mora vzgojiti in ti omogociti izkoristiti potencial.
Sej vem, na slo techu so sami junaski borci, ki jih je mati v Avganistanu vrgla v jarek ob cesti, pa so cudezno preziveli, se privlekli do Slovenije, dokoncali solanje in so sedaj top shit.
Ja, ta mati. Mene je sicer vrgla v jarek v Nigeriji. Sem se moral plaziti to Tunizije in preplavati sredozemsko morje, da sem prišel do Kopra, kjer sem se sprehodil do Ljubljane in vpisal v vrtec.
Hitro poklici Oprah.
shark_nm ::
Ce mislis, da odvodi in integrali niso prakticno uporabni, verjetno samo pomeni, da imas IQ bolj proti povprecju.
Na sem samo zate rešil.
Tako se pa ze dolgo nisem nasmejal. Saj razumes, da si pokazal graf, kjer so uporabljeni ravno integrali
No vidiš, le zamisli se malo nad sabo in ne trolaj po forumih o ljudeh katere niti malo ne poznaš. In pojdiva naprej po praktičnih primerih. Seveda sem se moral nadrkati v gimnaziji integrale in formule in potem na magistru pri multivariatni analizi in statistiki 3 vse ponovno od začetka. Ampak pazi to, ker smo ljudje naredili korak naprej imamo SPSS program ki namesto nas premleva formule. Jaz nisem trdil da integrali niso uporabni, pravim samo da tisti KI jih bo uporabljal bo verjetno uporabil orodja in prišel do zaključka, razen če je v taki specifiki posla da to dela peš in zraven verjetno uživa. Jaz nisem na gimnaziji imel nobene namere da bi premleval to na pamet. Škoda je samo potenciala otrok ki bi lahko blesteli pa pač nimajo časa ker se ukvarjajo s stvarmi ki jim niso ampak pazi, jo razumejo.
m0LN4r ::
Vsak ima delno prav.
Povsem razumljivo je, da nekdo, ki uporablja program za rezanje videojev, ne rabi vedeti napisati programa za rezanje.
Je pa v srednji soli po mojem potreben nek filter, da se loci zrno od plevela.
Sem pa v tisti skupini, ki je mnenja, da je gimnazija ze itak prelahka. Nek nivo je treba drzati. Kdor pa ni sposoben gimnazije zakljucit z 2-3 brez ucenja, pa naj gre v startu ze v neko poklicno za kateri poklic pac meni, da je za njega, da se potem ne rabi uciti od bio,kem, jezikov, pa vse do fizike in knjizevnosti.
Za pozitivno oceno v gimnaziji, je dovolj ce samo z enim okom poslusas kaj se dogaja.
V solah bi lahko ucili vec prakticnega za vsakdanje zivljenje.
Finance, elektronska pismenost, pravice, zakonodaja, kje izpolniti kak obrazec.
Povsem razumljivo je, da nekdo, ki uporablja program za rezanje videojev, ne rabi vedeti napisati programa za rezanje.
Je pa v srednji soli po mojem potreben nek filter, da se loci zrno od plevela.
Sem pa v tisti skupini, ki je mnenja, da je gimnazija ze itak prelahka. Nek nivo je treba drzati. Kdor pa ni sposoben gimnazije zakljucit z 2-3 brez ucenja, pa naj gre v startu ze v neko poklicno za kateri poklic pac meni, da je za njega, da se potem ne rabi uciti od bio,kem, jezikov, pa vse do fizike in knjizevnosti.
Za pozitivno oceno v gimnaziji, je dovolj ce samo z enim okom poslusas kaj se dogaja.
V solah bi lahko ucili vec prakticnega za vsakdanje zivljenje.
Finance, elektronska pismenost, pravice, zakonodaja, kje izpolniti kak obrazec.
https://ref.trade.re/38mvdvxm
Trade Republic 38MVDVXM
Trade Republic 38MVDVXM
Invictus ::
Ločiti je treba učence že v OŠ. Da tisti ta zabiti ne motijo bolj pametnih.
Gimnazija se zdi prelahka, ampak samo zaradi tega, ker se je ustvarilo cel kup gimanzij zaradi pogoja mature za vpis na faks.
Tiste, uporabne zadeve, ki naj bi se učili, to je brez zvze. Če bi bili obrazci logični, ali danes elektronski, bi jih znal vsak izpolniti. Če ima folk probleme z izpolnjevanjem obrazcev, in to večina, je problem v obrazcih.
Gimnazija se zdi prelahka, ampak samo zaradi tega, ker se je ustvarilo cel kup gimanzij zaradi pogoja mature za vpis na faks.
Tiste, uporabne zadeve, ki naj bi se učili, to je brez zvze. Če bi bili obrazci logični, ali danes elektronski, bi jih znal vsak izpolniti. Če ima folk probleme z izpolnjevanjem obrazcev, in to večina, je problem v obrazcih.
"Life is hard; it's even harder when you're stupid."
http://goo.gl/2YuS2x
http://goo.gl/2YuS2x
shark_nm ::
Ločiti je treba učence že v OŠ. Da tisti ta zabiti ne motijo bolj pametnih.
Gimnazija se zdi prelahka, ampak samo zaradi tega, ker se je ustvarilo cel kup gimanzij zaradi pogoja mature za vpis na faks.
Tiste, uporabne zadeve, ki naj bi se učili, to je brez zvze. Če bi bili obrazci logični, ali danes elektronski, bi jih znal vsak izpolniti. Če ima folk probleme z izpolnjevanjem obrazcev, in to večina, je problem v obrazcih.
A veš da največ motijo pouk tisti ki imajo višji IQ? Zato ker se dolgočasijo pri pouku in jim gre koncentracija drugam. Tisti ki pa so počasnejši so pa ponavadi posrani in samo tiho gledajo kaj se dogaja.
Rihito ::
Pozdravljeni,
zanima me koliko bi vi ocenili povprečni IQ slovenskih gimnazijcev? ALI je gimnazija zahtevna za nekoga s povprečnim iQ količnikom?
na dan z besedo.
hvala. :)
lp
Obiskoval sem tehniško gimnazijo (od drugega letnika dalje imaš modul strojništvo/elektrotehnika/računalništvo), pa ti lahko najprej odgovorim na drugo vprašanje. Nekdo, ki ima povprečen IQ bo imel na taki gimnaziji kar nekaj težav, če ne bo vložil veliko truda. Govorim o pogojno dvojkah in trojkah brez dela. Največja selekcija se je delala pri matematiki, fiziki in tehniških modulih (vsaj en predmet je bil tak, da je zahteval ogromno dela), kjer osebno vidim več povezave z IQ rezultatom (kako dobro iščeš in povezuješ vzorce), kot pa pri nekih družboslovnih predmetih. Imeli smo kar nekaj primerov, ko dijak ni znal en javen nastop "skup sestavt", medtem ko jim matematika, programiranje, fizika ali pa splošno reševanje logičnih težav ni predstavljalo problema. Lenoba IMO :), BRILJIRALI TAM, KJER NI BILO POTREBNO VLOŽITI VELIKO DELA.
Povprečen IQ? Nimam pojma, bom ustrelil za joke 125. Zgornji link do testa mi da rezultat, ki je malce nižji.
kriptobog ::
Pozdravljeni,
zanima me koliko bi vi ocenili povprečni IQ slovenskih gimnazijcev? ALI je gimnazija zahtevna za nekoga s povprečnim iQ količnikom?
na dan z besedo.
hvala. :)
lp
Obiskoval sem tehniško gimnazijo (od drugega letnika dalje imaš modul strojništvo/elektrotehnika/računalništvo), pa ti lahko najprej odgovorim na drugo vprašanje. Nekdo, ki ima povprečen IQ bo imel na taki gimnaziji kar nekaj težav, če ne bo vložil veliko truda. Govorim o pogojno dvojkah in trojkah brez dela. Največja selekcija se je delala pri matematiki, fiziki in tehniških modulih (vsaj en predmet je bil tak, da je zahteval ogromno dela), kjer osebno vidim več povezave z IQ rezultatom (kako dobro iščeš in povezuješ vzorce), kot pa pri nekih družboslovnih predmetih. Imeli smo kar nekaj primerov, ko dijak ni znal en javen nastop "skup sestavt", medtem ko jim matematika, programiranje, fizika ali pa splošno reševanje logičnih težav ni predstavljalo problema. Lenoba IMO :), BRILJIRALI TAM, KJER NI BILO POTREBNO VLOŽITI VELIKO DELA.
Povprečen IQ? Nimam pojma, bom ustrelil za joke 125. Zgornji link do testa mi da rezultat, ki je malce nižji.
Ah taka gimnazija je skoraj isto bv kot klasicna gimnazija. Kaj pa kak elektrotehni racunalnistva? Kjer imas od osnov elektrotehnike (zaradi tega predmeta sem v prvem letniku izgubil polovico sosolcev...), pa kasneje programiranje, itd. Prvi letnik nas je bilo za 4 razrede, na maturi samo se 2,5
link_up ::
tam pri 130 bo ocitno meja, ko folk dojame, da nima smisla dokazovati inferiornim.
In and Out
49106 ::
Rihito ::
Nekaj več naravoslovnih predmetov v zameno za nekaj manj družboslovja + boljša podlaga iz matematike in fizike za naprej, kot na 4-letni tehniški?
I'm gonna take that :D
Pa nimam nič proti družboslovju, vendar ga raje študiram v prostem času.
I'm gonna take that :D
Pa nimam nič proti družboslovju, vendar ga raje študiram v prostem času.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Rihito ()
Invictus ::
A veš da največ motijo pouk tisti ki imajo višji IQ? Zato ker se dolgočasijo pri pouku in jim gre koncentracija drugam. Tisti ki pa so počasnejši so pa ponavadi posrani in samo tiho gledajo kaj se dogaja.
Ja seveda.
zato je pa treba debile spravit ven, jih usmerit v obrtniška dela, bolj pametnim pa dati tudi bolj zahteven program. Da se res kaj naredi iz njih...
"Life is hard; it's even harder when you're stupid."
http://goo.gl/2YuS2x
http://goo.gl/2YuS2x
kow ::
No vidiš, le zamisli se malo nad sabo in ne trolaj po forumih o ljudeh katere niti malo ne poznaš. In pojdiva naprej po praktičnih primerih. Seveda sem se moral nadrkati v gimnaziji integrale in formule in potem na magistru pri multivariatni analizi in statistiki 3 vse ponovno od začetka. Ampak pazi to, ker smo ljudje naredili korak naprej imamo SPSS program ki namesto nas premleva formule. Jaz nisem trdil da integrali niso uporabni, pravim samo da tisti KI jih bo uporabljal bo verjetno uporabil orodja in prišel do zaključka, razen če je v taki specifiki posla da to dela peš in zraven verjetno uživa. Jaz nisem na gimnaziji imel nobene namere da bi premleval to na pamet. Škoda je samo potenciala otrok ki bi lahko blesteli pa pač nimajo časa ker se ukvarjajo s stvarmi ki jim niso ampak pazi, jo razumejo.
Kaj vse si clovek natvezi, ker ne more sprejeti, da ni pretirano inteligenten. Ce si se "moral nadrkati" in "premlevati formule" - nisi kaj veliko razumel.
Ja, vecina nas je bila takih. Nismo v resnici veliko razumeli. Ampak obstajajo ljudje, ki te zadevajo osvojijo "za zajtrk". Poanta ostaja: odvod je prakticno banalno lahek in neverjetno uporaben koncept. Na zalost so ucitelji v srednjih solah precej povprecni - drugace pac ne bi ucili v srednji soli, ter ne znajo dobro razloziti snovi.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: kow ()
tilen03 ::
A veš da največ motijo pouk tisti ki imajo višji IQ? Zato ker se dolgočasijo pri pouku in jim gre koncentracija drugam. Tisti ki pa so počasnejši so pa ponavadi posrani in samo tiho gledajo kaj se dogaja.
Ja seveda.
zato je pa treba debile spravit ven, jih usmerit v obrtniška dela, bolj pametnim pa dati tudi bolj zahteven program. Da se res kaj naredi iz njih...
Glavna vrlina mora biti učinkovitost? Kitajski sistem for the win torej?
BRBR ::
A veš da največ motijo pouk tisti ki imajo višji IQ? Zato ker se dolgočasijo pri pouku in jim gre koncentracija drugam. Tisti ki pa so počasnejši so pa ponavadi posrani in samo tiho gledajo kaj se dogaja.
Ja seveda.
zato je pa treba debile spravit ven, jih usmerit v obrtniška dela, bolj pametnim pa dati tudi bolj zahteven program. Da se res kaj naredi iz njih...
Da človek, ki ni debil zgleda kot debil, zlasti enemu debilu, ni treba prav dosti. Tako da ne vem kdo bi to odstranjevanje izvajal. Mengele morda.
Invictus ::
Saj ocene vse povedo... Ste bili med debili, da ste to že pozabili?
"Life is hard; it's even harder when you're stupid."
http://goo.gl/2YuS2x
http://goo.gl/2YuS2x
shark_nm ::
A veš da največ motijo pouk tisti ki imajo višji IQ? Zato ker se dolgočasijo pri pouku in jim gre koncentracija drugam. Tisti ki pa so počasnejši so pa ponavadi posrani in samo tiho gledajo kaj se dogaja.
Ja seveda.
zato je pa treba debile spravit ven, jih usmerit v obrtniška dela, bolj pametnim pa dati tudi bolj zahteven program. Da se res kaj naredi iz njih...
https://www.zurnal24.si/slovenija/inter...
shark_nm ::
Saj ocene vse povedo... Ste bili med debili, da ste to že pozabili?
No me zanima koliko povedo ocene punc ki so se dol dajale s profesorjem iz Zagreba na Otočcu kjer so si "priborile" 10. Ocena pove samo to ali jo je nekdo dosegel. Na pamet se nekaj naučiti pa ni težko, goljufati je tudi marsikdo pripravljen in kot kaže so še drugi prijemi v igri. To kar bi res povedalo iz kakšnega testa je nekdo bi zavzemalo individualen pristop in analizo. Kakor da še niste nikoli slišali za ljudi ki so imeli v šoli strašanske težave bili pa nadpovprečno inteligentni če ne celo čudežni. Šola pač ni narejena za to da se ven vleče najboljše in ljudje smo precej več kakor enice in ničle...
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: shark_nm ()
shark_nm ::
Evo, kratka zgodba in verjemite mi da relatable za marsikoga.
I was a "smart kid" according to my elementary school.
In 6th grade, age 11, myself and a few other students had completed our math textbooks ahead of the class by a few months.
The school thought it would be interesting to allow us to take an Algebra test, just to see how much we could figure out.
With only about an hour of algebra instruction, we were clearly comprehending it.
Algebra was a class normally not taken until 9th grade (age 14), and the majority of students didnt take Algebra until 10th grade (age 15).
But we had proven we were capable over the next few weeks, and so the school administrators decided to work out a way the few of us "smart kids" could attend an Algebra class at the local high school the following year (our 7th grade year, age 12). The high school was only a couple miles from our school, so a quick bus ride would be all that was required.
The administration was confident that all would be arranged and they encouraged us to study during the summer to catch up on some concepts that would normally have been introduced in 7th and 8th grade mathematics.
So I did.
I liked it. It challenged me, but I felt like I was accomplishing something.
Up to this point, I was a 4.0 student.
7th grade school year started.
On the first day of school they told us:
"We are still getting the arrangements in order, you will spend a couple days here before you start the algebra class at the high school. Feel free to relax in the auditorium during your first period, then attend your other classes as normal."
Ok. Thats reasonable. A couple days to get things in order. Sure.
A few days later: "Its taking longer than we expected so we have a temporary substitute teacher here and she will have you in one of the empty portable classrooms on the end of campus."
"Just until we get this sorted out."
... uh huh... ok a couple more days maybe?
3 weeks passed, perhaps a month, with the same excuses.
Finally they admitted to us:
"The administration has decided that we can not allow you to attend the high school, due to our worries that you may be bullied by the older kids there. They might take offense to us allowing younger kids in their class"
Wait What? That wasn't part of the discussion. Who cares what the other kids think of us, we will be there for 1 hour and then we come back to this school. Who would deprive a child of the right to learn, for the sake of a few potential bullies?
"Furthermore, we can not afford to hire an additional Algebra teacher for you this year. You will remain in this portable classroom, with substitute teachers for the rest of the year. "
We had a total of 5 different teachers that year, if I remember correctly. None of them would attempt to teach us Algebra. For that matter, they didn't even get us Algebra text books.
Instead they had us review everything from 6th grade, and what we studied over the summer.
So not only had they stolen my summer, they had now stolen my 7th grade year as well.
From there it was all downhill for me.
The other students seemed to handle it fairly well.
But I felt completely disrespected, underestimated, unappreciated, ...
Discarded.
Angry, honestly.
And why, if it was so unimportant for me to continue in my math studies, should I bother keeping up with my language studies? or my history studies?
Fortunately, I still enjoyed science so I did well there. I did well in Art because it was fun.
But I started slacking in language and history.
Stopped doing homework.
Stopped paying attention during lectures.
Stopped reading the textbook.
I still got A's on the tests though, and that's when I realized I was being taken advantage of.
I realized they had been running me around on a treadmill for years, perhaps my entire education.
I was on a ride with a set speed limit. A limit I could have surpassed years before, but was never given an opportunity.
Why should I continue to be complacent?
7th grade year ended, I had dropped to a 3.0 student.
8th grade began, they actually allowed us to take the algebra class at the high-school. I can assure you our protests over poor treatment the previous year had a lot to do with this.
Unfortunately, the damage had already been done to me.
I got 100% in Algebra that year. It was easy.
I got more angry.
I failed history and english.
I finished 8th grade with a 2.4 gpa. They almost held me back. Technically I did not "graduate" 8th grade. During that summer I completed some workbooks so that I would be allowed to attend high school.
I completed 9th grade, after convincing them to allow me to take Advanced English class. I got a B over all in that class, despite never doing homework, I passed every single test with an A. I skipped almost all other work. I also completed math with all A's on tests, and never did homework. I got a C.
In my mind, I had proven without doubt that I had learned everything they wanted to teach me, faster than they were willing to teach me.
I finished 9th grade with a 2.2 gpa.
10th grade with a 1.7 gpa.
11th grade with 1.3 gpa.
I had stopped caring entirely.
October of my senior year (2 months in), halfway through the day, I was done.
I walked out. I never returned to that school. The police became involved, I explained that I was going to be an adult before they finished their paperwork, so there was no point in even doing it. They understood I was correct, so they dropped it. That was it.
A few months later, I turned 18.
My mom convinced me to take the GED. I mostly did it just so she would stop bothering me. The tests were in July. By that point my friends had all graduated high school. Got their shiny diplomas, and their little square hats with tassels.
I didnt get that. No graduation for me.
The results came back from the GED tests.
95th percentile in math. 90th in language / social. 90th in science.
It had been nearly a year since I was in school at that point. I didnt study a single paragraph in that time. Those scores were entirely from my memory. Memory of 6 years of school where I mostly slept through classes, and never did homework. 6 years of school averaging D's or worse in most classes.
I think my best grades were in Physical Education, simply because I didn't mind running and playing sports.
I did have a job during that time. I worked at a grocery store starting in my junior year. I got a temporary position interning in software programming, but I lost that due to poor attendance.
Let's be honest, I lost the job because I was lazy, and I didnt want to get out of bed.
It was depression.
I couldn't go to college like my friends.
There was no way I could get scholarships. My parents had no money to cover me, and no financial credit so I couldnt get loans either.
I jumped from minimum wage job to minimum wage job for years.
Round Table Pizza. Telemarketing. Retail Sales.
Finally got myself into community college when I turned 25.
Never finished.
I felt too out of place. I didn't belong.
Since then I just worked blue collar jobs, tried to stay ahead of the minimum wage, tried to build credit, to just get a little bit ahead.
I'm still renting. I don't even have a mortgage.
Ive probably spent over a quarter of a million dollars on rent.
Not a single penny of that remains as equity.
It doesn't help that I live in an extremely expensive county, in an extremely expensive state.
But my family lives here. They are all I really have, so I cant bring myself to leave.
So this is where I am. So is where I have come. A smart kid, who got bad grades, and now you know why, and what it got me.
If you are a smart kid, and you are reading this right now, and you feel as I did, you feel disrespected and unappreciated by the system...
I have one piece of advice:
Suck it up. They dont care about you, but YOU care about you. Get your damn grades up. Graduate. Get scholarships. Go to college with your friends. You will regret it if you don't.
I promise.
You deserve better.
But only YOU can give it to you.
I was a "smart kid" according to my elementary school.
In 6th grade, age 11, myself and a few other students had completed our math textbooks ahead of the class by a few months.
The school thought it would be interesting to allow us to take an Algebra test, just to see how much we could figure out.
With only about an hour of algebra instruction, we were clearly comprehending it.
Algebra was a class normally not taken until 9th grade (age 14), and the majority of students didnt take Algebra until 10th grade (age 15).
But we had proven we were capable over the next few weeks, and so the school administrators decided to work out a way the few of us "smart kids" could attend an Algebra class at the local high school the following year (our 7th grade year, age 12). The high school was only a couple miles from our school, so a quick bus ride would be all that was required.
The administration was confident that all would be arranged and they encouraged us to study during the summer to catch up on some concepts that would normally have been introduced in 7th and 8th grade mathematics.
So I did.
I liked it. It challenged me, but I felt like I was accomplishing something.
Up to this point, I was a 4.0 student.
7th grade school year started.
On the first day of school they told us:
"We are still getting the arrangements in order, you will spend a couple days here before you start the algebra class at the high school. Feel free to relax in the auditorium during your first period, then attend your other classes as normal."
Ok. Thats reasonable. A couple days to get things in order. Sure.
A few days later: "Its taking longer than we expected so we have a temporary substitute teacher here and she will have you in one of the empty portable classrooms on the end of campus."
"Just until we get this sorted out."
... uh huh... ok a couple more days maybe?
3 weeks passed, perhaps a month, with the same excuses.
Finally they admitted to us:
"The administration has decided that we can not allow you to attend the high school, due to our worries that you may be bullied by the older kids there. They might take offense to us allowing younger kids in their class"
Wait What? That wasn't part of the discussion. Who cares what the other kids think of us, we will be there for 1 hour and then we come back to this school. Who would deprive a child of the right to learn, for the sake of a few potential bullies?
"Furthermore, we can not afford to hire an additional Algebra teacher for you this year. You will remain in this portable classroom, with substitute teachers for the rest of the year. "
We had a total of 5 different teachers that year, if I remember correctly. None of them would attempt to teach us Algebra. For that matter, they didn't even get us Algebra text books.
Instead they had us review everything from 6th grade, and what we studied over the summer.
So not only had they stolen my summer, they had now stolen my 7th grade year as well.
From there it was all downhill for me.
The other students seemed to handle it fairly well.
But I felt completely disrespected, underestimated, unappreciated, ...
Discarded.
Angry, honestly.
And why, if it was so unimportant for me to continue in my math studies, should I bother keeping up with my language studies? or my history studies?
Fortunately, I still enjoyed science so I did well there. I did well in Art because it was fun.
But I started slacking in language and history.
Stopped doing homework.
Stopped paying attention during lectures.
Stopped reading the textbook.
I still got A's on the tests though, and that's when I realized I was being taken advantage of.
I realized they had been running me around on a treadmill for years, perhaps my entire education.
I was on a ride with a set speed limit. A limit I could have surpassed years before, but was never given an opportunity.
Why should I continue to be complacent?
7th grade year ended, I had dropped to a 3.0 student.
8th grade began, they actually allowed us to take the algebra class at the high-school. I can assure you our protests over poor treatment the previous year had a lot to do with this.
Unfortunately, the damage had already been done to me.
I got 100% in Algebra that year. It was easy.
I got more angry.
I failed history and english.
I finished 8th grade with a 2.4 gpa. They almost held me back. Technically I did not "graduate" 8th grade. During that summer I completed some workbooks so that I would be allowed to attend high school.
I completed 9th grade, after convincing them to allow me to take Advanced English class. I got a B over all in that class, despite never doing homework, I passed every single test with an A. I skipped almost all other work. I also completed math with all A's on tests, and never did homework. I got a C.
In my mind, I had proven without doubt that I had learned everything they wanted to teach me, faster than they were willing to teach me.
I finished 9th grade with a 2.2 gpa.
10th grade with a 1.7 gpa.
11th grade with 1.3 gpa.
I had stopped caring entirely.
October of my senior year (2 months in), halfway through the day, I was done.
I walked out. I never returned to that school. The police became involved, I explained that I was going to be an adult before they finished their paperwork, so there was no point in even doing it. They understood I was correct, so they dropped it. That was it.
A few months later, I turned 18.
My mom convinced me to take the GED. I mostly did it just so she would stop bothering me. The tests were in July. By that point my friends had all graduated high school. Got their shiny diplomas, and their little square hats with tassels.
I didnt get that. No graduation for me.
The results came back from the GED tests.
95th percentile in math. 90th in language / social. 90th in science.
It had been nearly a year since I was in school at that point. I didnt study a single paragraph in that time. Those scores were entirely from my memory. Memory of 6 years of school where I mostly slept through classes, and never did homework. 6 years of school averaging D's or worse in most classes.
I think my best grades were in Physical Education, simply because I didn't mind running and playing sports.
I did have a job during that time. I worked at a grocery store starting in my junior year. I got a temporary position interning in software programming, but I lost that due to poor attendance.
Let's be honest, I lost the job because I was lazy, and I didnt want to get out of bed.
It was depression.
I couldn't go to college like my friends.
There was no way I could get scholarships. My parents had no money to cover me, and no financial credit so I couldnt get loans either.
I jumped from minimum wage job to minimum wage job for years.
Round Table Pizza. Telemarketing. Retail Sales.
Finally got myself into community college when I turned 25.
Never finished.
I felt too out of place. I didn't belong.
Since then I just worked blue collar jobs, tried to stay ahead of the minimum wage, tried to build credit, to just get a little bit ahead.
I'm still renting. I don't even have a mortgage.
Ive probably spent over a quarter of a million dollars on rent.
Not a single penny of that remains as equity.
It doesn't help that I live in an extremely expensive county, in an extremely expensive state.
But my family lives here. They are all I really have, so I cant bring myself to leave.
So this is where I am. So is where I have come. A smart kid, who got bad grades, and now you know why, and what it got me.
If you are a smart kid, and you are reading this right now, and you feel as I did, you feel disrespected and unappreciated by the system...
I have one piece of advice:
Suck it up. They dont care about you, but YOU care about you. Get your damn grades up. Graduate. Get scholarships. Go to college with your friends. You will regret it if you don't.
I promise.
You deserve better.
But only YOU can give it to you.
Phantomeye ::
Phantomeye je izjavil:
V gimnaziji, ce se znajdes, imas lahko komot lepe ocene z zelo malo truda.
Eni se pa pac morejo po nekaj ur na dan na pamet drkati stvari, ker pac.
Ni univerzalne formule. Jaz sem bil 100% len in iskal vedno nacine kako z najman dela imeti cim boljse ocene.
Pr matematiki se mi nikoli ni dalo na dolgo pisati postopke, sem 3/4 stvari zracunal v glavi = rezultat. Pol pa slaba ocena, ker je rezultat bil eno tocko vreden, s postopkom na siroko in pocez pa 5 tock. Brezveze skratka.
Isto pri geometriji, ko so drugi ze drugic tablo brisali sem jaz imel ze rezultat na listu in gledal v luft.
Sem se celo skregal parkrat s profesorco zaradi tega.
Celo matura iz kemije se mi ni zdela bas neki, ene trije popoldnevi da malo obnovis, vse ostalo je pa samoumevno...
Edino cesar me je blo strah je bila literatura iz madzarscine, ker nisem prebral knjig. Sem pa prebral obnove sosolcev med odmorom na hodniku, thats it. Done.
Skratka brezveze. Uzivancija na polno.
Ja, zato, ker glavni point matematičnih nalog ni bil rezultat, ampak prikaz razumevanja procesa, pa če zafrkneš izračun, ti lahko vsaj delno točkuje.
Pa mi razlozi kako prides do pravilnega rezultata, brez razumevanja.
Sem hotel še dodati, da postopek služi validaciji.
Odgovor si lahko prepisal od sošolca (generalno gledano, ne ti osebno), cel postopek je bistveno težje prepisat. Ali pa če si se dokopal do kopije testa (mi smo se parkrat in sem mel sošolce, k so med testom imeli graf narisan preden so sploh izračunali x oz y.) in si si recimo zapomnil samo odgovore.
In kot sem rekel, služi temu, da lahko učitelj zazna napako v postopku in ti lahko še vedno da nekaj pik (čeprav je bil rezultat napačen). Se mi zdi, da nobenemu dijaku ni v interesu minmax ocenjevanje (vse točke ali 0 točk).
BRBR ::
Saj ocene vse povedo... Ste bili med debili, da ste to že pozabili?
Pri Hitlerju je bilo zadosti, da si dvignil roko v malarski pozdrav, 5 al pa 10 takoj, konec debate. Zdaj ni dosti drugače.
Debilnost works in mysterious ways.
Mnogi tule mešate ocene iz neke matematiče logike, postopkov, itd. Pozabljate, da kumulativno oceno dajo ocene iz predmetov, ki so dejansko mešanje zraka.
Pričakovati je, da je že vsaj kdo kdaj pomislil kakšen je bil efekt 8. let OŠ, razen, da znaš na koncu brat in morda nekaj malega računat, izvzemši, da te ima pač država 8 let, del dneva, na povodcu, da ne podivjaš (ne deluje 100%, ker so še drugi faktorji).
Tu je še ta pomislek, že davno sem nekje pobral, da v USA, kjer v vesolje vozijo rakete, pitagorov izrek 'jemljejo' par let kasneje kot pri nas.
Človek se lahko potem vpraša ali tule sistem forsira osme potnike ? Nihče od teh pa ne vozi rakete.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: BRBR ()
IgorCardanof ::
Vsak ima delno prav.
Povsem razumljivo je, da nekdo, ki uporablja program za rezanje videojev, ne rabi vedeti napisati programa za rezanje.
Je pa v srednji soli po mojem potreben nek filter, da se loci zrno od plevela.
Sem pa v tisti skupini, ki je mnenja, da je gimnazija ze itak prelahka. Nek nivo je treba drzati. Kdor pa ni sposoben gimnazije zakljucit z 2-3 brez ucenja, pa naj gre v startu ze v neko poklicno za kateri poklic pac meni, da je za njega, da se potem ne rabi uciti od bio,kem, jezikov, pa vse do fizike in knjizevnosti.
Za pozitivno oceno v gimnaziji, je dovolj ce samo z enim okom poslusas kaj se dogaja.
V solah bi lahko ucili vec prakticnega za vsakdanje zivljenje.
Finance, elektronska pismenost, pravice, zakonodaja, kje izpolniti kak obrazec.
Ne bom zdej napisal katerih predmetov in snovi je absolutno prevec, ampak definitivno bi morali v program dati vse to kar si napisal, sam bi dodal pa se kake osnove komunikacije.
Retail investor, Simp, Crypto analyst, Cardano hejtr
Ne odgovarjam na DM.
Ne odgovarjam na DM.
Zimonem ::
Ma point ni v genujah, kateri so sicer fajn. Ampak da ima večji del življa nekje za spodobno preživetje.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenilo: Zimonem ()
TheBlueOne ::
zanima me koliko bi vi ocenili povprečni IQ slovenskih gimnazijcev? ALI je gimnazija zahtevna za nekoga s povprečnim iQ količnikom?
110 prvi letnik, 115 od drugega letnika naprej.
Gimnazija je b.p. lahko zahtevna tudi za take, ki so top 3% ali visje po IQ, ker v bistvu ni najbolj pomemben IQ ampak so bolj pomembne delovne navade, ki pa so pri najbolj brihtnih, ki so vajeni, da vse pride samo redke.
Gimnazija ni problem za nekoga, ki je nadpovprecen in ima delovne navade. Tudi povprecen z dobrimi delovnimi navadami bo OK prisel skozi.
Imam pa obcutek, da IQ pomaga kasneje. Mi smo imeli visok IQ pri delovnih in pri totalnih lenuhih. Trenutno se se bije bitka kdo bo zmagal, pa so imeli brihtni in leni porazen uspeh brihtni in delovni pa seveda blesteli. Imamo pa nekje ca. 10 let delovne dobe. Tisti z nizjim IQ se pogosto ne znajdejo najbolj, delovne navade jih ne resujejo v realnosti.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: TheBlueOne ()
blay44 ::
Tu je še ta pomislek, že davno sem nekje pobral, da v USA, kjer v vesolje vozijo rakete, pitagorov izrek 'jemljejo' par let kasneje kot pri nas.
Človek se lahko potem vpraša ali tule sistem forsira osme potnike ? Nihče od teh pa ne vozi rakete.
Naši iz gimnazije ne znajo niti deliti brez kalkulatorja.
Tko, da bi morala raketa obratovati brez motenj.
To je vzrok ležernosti naših raketarjev.
Morajo pa zato razviti nekaj obrambnih in predatoskih
sposobnosti.
Delo za blagajno, pa 500 komadov konkurance pri prijavi v
javne službe skorumpiranega sistema, naredi svoje.
ViperR ::
OŠ končal s 5 brez učenja, gimnazijo pa s 3 in 2, vendar sem pol pouka prešprical. Problem tudi, ker nisem imel delovnih navad. So imeli povprečni dost višje ocene, ker so pač sledili pouku in se dosti učili.
m0LN4r ::
Ja jeba je, ce se ne ves prodat v tem turbokapitalizmu.
https://ref.trade.re/38mvdvxm
Trade Republic 38MVDVXM
Trade Republic 38MVDVXM
mat xxl ::
OŠ končal s 5 brez učenja, gimnazijo pa s 3 in 2, vendar sem pol pouka prešprical. Problem tudi, ker nisem imel delovnih navad. So imeli povprečni dost višje ocene, ker so pač sledili pouku in se dosti učili.
??? tole nekaj ne bo, OK, prvič, ni napisano, komu je izdano, drugič, oni vsaj cca 10 let nazaj, ko sem sam delal ta test, nikakor niso izdajali potrdil, še več, tudi rezultata niti na tiho niso povedali, si samo dobil vabilo v članstvo, ker si bil, čez mejo, ali pa ne in taka je bila takrat njihova politika, sedaj mi ni jasno, če so res, to politiko spremenili ?
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: mat xxl ()
IgorCardanof ::
Saj je jasno iz slike, da ne z belo pobarvano na sredi, da se skrije ime.
Retail investor, Simp, Crypto analyst, Cardano hejtr
Ne odgovarjam na DM.
Ne odgovarjam na DM.
user4683 ::
Ocitno vsako leto spreminjajo pravila ali pa template. Dobrih 15 let nazaj si skupaj z vabilom 100% dobil tudi rezultat.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: user4683 ()
Utk ::
V gimnaziji najbolje čez pride nekdo z dobrim spominom. Nekdo si nekaj dvakrat prebere in si zapomne, nekdo 5x pa si ne. Sej to je tudi neka vrsta inteligence. Mi smo jih imeli kar nekaj, ponavadi žensk, ki so imele večino predmetov 4 in 5, matematiko in fiziko, kjer ti včasih nobeno piflanje ne pomaga, pa komaj 2, morda kdaj 3. Imaš pa tudi take, ki imajo in spomin in logiko. Jaz imam samo logiko, kolk imam.
nightrage ::
Glede na oblačenje in da imajo vsi iste frizure.. rečmo 40 nekje
Ponavadi še najstnice uporabljajo šminke različnih barv, najstniki pa si vedno manj režejo hlače nad kolenom.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: nightrage ()
Invictus ::
TheBlueOne je izjavil:
Gimnazija je b.p. lahko zahtevna tudi za take, ki so top 3% ali visje po IQ, ker v bistvu ni najbolj pomemben IQ ampak so bolj pomembne delovne navade, ki pa so pri najbolj brihtnih, ki so vajeni, da vse pride samo redke.
Gimnazija ni problem za nekoga, ki je nadpovprecen in ima delovne navade. Tudi povprecen z dobrimi delovnimi navadami bo OK prisel skozi.
Zato je pa problem v OŠ, ker ne ločijo folka tam v zadnji triadi. 3 leta je povsem dovolj, da se pridobijo delovne navade in da se jih nauči več kot ostale. Sam, bolj mislim, da je problem v učiteljih, ki bolj zahtevnih tem ne znajo.
Če gre pa na faks trtjina generacije, j to povsem dovolj, ko se zapre fakse za "Iztraživanje ruda i gubljenje vremena".
"Life is hard; it's even harder when you're stupid."
http://goo.gl/2YuS2x
http://goo.gl/2YuS2x
IgorCardanof ::
Sej a ni 80% ali 90% ucencev odlicnih po uspehu v osnovnih solah, NPZje pa v povprecju pisejo pa kar nekaj pod 50%?
Retail investor, Simp, Crypto analyst, Cardano hejtr
Ne odgovarjam na DM.
Ne odgovarjam na DM.
nightrage ::
Ocitno vsako leto spreminjajo pravila ali pa template. Dobrih 15 let nazaj si skupaj z vabilom 100% dobil tudi rezultat.
O kakem rezultatu ti govoriš? True al false? Banke v današnjem stanju so 100% boljše poštimane kot so bile 15 let nazaj, templatov pa se ne da na tako kratek rok spremeniti. Template spreminja tehnologija in verske skupnosti.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- predlagalo izbris: jest10 ()
user4683 ::
O kakšnih bankah in verskih skupnostih bluziš? Govorimo o rezultatu Mensa testiranja. Pred dobrimi 15 leti, ko sem sam šel na testiranje, sem po pošti dobil rezultat (višino IQ) in vabilo za včlanitev.
nightrage ::
O kakšnih bankah in verskih skupnostih bluziš? Govorimo o rezultatu Mensa testiranja. Pred dobrimi 15 leti, ko sem sam šel na testiranje, sem po pošti dobil rezultat (višino IQ) in vabilo za včlanitev.
Ti men o čem jaz bluzim, ti pa ne nekem mensa testiranju. Kaj sploh je to? Jao folk, pa kdaj vam bo jasno, da je svet pisan in ni črnogled!
Zgodovina sprememb…
- predlagalo izbris: jest10 ()
Invictus ::
IgorCardanof je izjavil:
Sej a ni 80% ali 90% ucencev odlicnih po uspehu v osnovnih solah, NPZje pa v povprecju pisejo pa kar nekaj pod 50%?
Tako nekako...
In ko se piše NPZ, ali kaka druga prevrjanja, se slabšim učencem reče, naj takrat ostanejo doma.
Da ima šola višje povprečje.
"Life is hard; it's even harder when you're stupid."
http://goo.gl/2YuS2x
http://goo.gl/2YuS2x
IgorCardanof ::
Recimo ane, tale nightrage je sicer lahko zelo inteligenten posameznik, samo pismen pa ni.
Retail investor, Simp, Crypto analyst, Cardano hejtr
Ne odgovarjam na DM.
Ne odgovarjam na DM.
TheBlueOne ::
Zato je pa problem v OŠ, ker ne ločijo folka tam v zadnji triadi. 3 leta je povsem dovolj, da se pridobijo delovne navade in da se jih nauči več kot ostale. Sam, bolj mislim, da je problem v učiteljih, ki bolj zahtevnih tem ne znajo.
Če gre pa na faks trtjina generacije, j to povsem dovolj, ko se zapre fakse za "Iztraživanje ruda i gubljenje vremena".
V koncni fazi se mi niti ne zdi, da je problem. Za casa solanje se ti kot brihtnemu lahko zdi, da ni fer, ker se ceni predvsem pridnost, inovativnost za katero pa se ve, da je dalec nad tem, pa se celo do neke mere dusi. Ampak to vse v bistvu sploh ni vazno. Ko pride pravo zivljenje izven teh solskih sistemov hitro ugotovis, da pac potrebujes ljudi po solskem kopitu, da delajo tocno to kar jim reces kakor jim reces.
Brihtni pa so lahko tudi falirani studenti, pa bodo vseeno imeli dobre sanse, da srednje brihtni odlicnjaki na koncu delajo za njih.
Skratka, solski sistem je cisto OK. Tudi to izgubljanje casa se verjetno koncuje, ker nasa generacija ne idealizira faksa kakor so ga boomerji. Pa deloma jih celo lahko razumes, ker v njihovem casu je bila koncana fakulteta skoraj garancija za nadpovprecno udobje.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: TheBlueOne ()
Invictus ::
Brihtni, inteligentni, se bodo vedno znašli, čeprav ocene niso imeli najboljše. Oni niso problematični.
Fora vsega šolstva je, da povprečne dovolj dobro izuri, da so uporabni na trgu dela. intelkigentnih ni treba, se znajdejo sami.
Sam ves fukcing fokus šol je zdaj na nadarjene, potem jih imaš pa malo morje... Kao nadarjenih...
Fora vsega šolstva je, da povprečne dovolj dobro izuri, da so uporabni na trgu dela. intelkigentnih ni treba, se znajdejo sami.
Sam ves fukcing fokus šol je zdaj na nadarjene, potem jih imaš pa malo morje... Kao nadarjenih...
"Life is hard; it's even harder when you're stupid."
http://goo.gl/2YuS2x
http://goo.gl/2YuS2x
TheBlueOne ::
Brihtni, inteligentni, se bodo vedno znašli, čeprav ocene niso imeli najboljše. Oni niso problematični.
Fora vsega šolstva je, da povprečne dovolj dobro izuri, da so uporabni na trgu dela. intelkigentnih ni treba, se znajdejo sami.
Sam ves fukcing fokus šol je zdaj na nadarjene, potem jih imaš pa malo morje... Kao nadarjenih...
Ni vazno. Tudi, da se res nadarjene dejansko dusi, ker se morajo ukvarjati predvsem s tem kar jih ne zanima, ker je kvazi treba delati bolj na tem kjer ocene sepajo, ni vazno. Tisti mulci, ki se tega sami zavedajo in se uspesno upirajo so v bistvu pravi dragulji med sivino. Posebej, ce opazijo kako malo so vredne te solske titule. Samo nekdo jim se mora povedati, naj ploskajo sistemu, ko pa pridejo iz njega pa naj kopirajo principe in zamenjajo sebe za ucitelje.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: TheBlueOne ()
Invictus ::
Če nimaš dovolj pik, pač ne prideš na željeno šolo. Potem ti nič ne pomaga...
Samouki vemo kaki so, malo jih je res dobrih, pa še ti so imeli srečo, da so naleteli na dobrega mentorja.
Samouki vemo kaki so, malo jih je res dobrih, pa še ti so imeli srečo, da so naleteli na dobrega mentorja.
"Life is hard; it's even harder when you're stupid."
http://goo.gl/2YuS2x
http://goo.gl/2YuS2x
TheBlueOne ::
Zopet vsaj trenutno se ni nek problem, ker vecina faksov, kjer so potem zaposlitve lukrativne, praviloma nima nekih omejitev. Za kaksno medicino pa moras biti priden in brihten, tako da je filter postavljem OK, ker taki praviloma blestijo skozi solanje.
Kjer je vazen talent pa so tudi trenutno pogosto sprejemni. Sem pa jaz v osnovi pristas sprejemnih namesto tega tockovanja, ker v praksi potem vidis, da imas diplomirance, ki si ne upajo delati poklica. Tekmovati na nevtralnem poligunu z brihtnimi, kjer ni uciteljic, da bi postavile okvirje, pac ni enostavno.
Kjer je vazen talent pa so tudi trenutno pogosto sprejemni. Sem pa jaz v osnovi pristas sprejemnih namesto tega tockovanja, ker v praksi potem vidis, da imas diplomirance, ki si ne upajo delati poklica. Tekmovati na nevtralnem poligunu z brihtnimi, kjer ni uciteljic, da bi postavile okvirje, pac ni enostavno.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: TheBlueOne ()
Invictus ::
Točkovanje ja, do neke meje. Potem pač sprejemci.
Ampak na faksih so se polenili, pa se jim ne da tega delat.
Ampak na faksih so se polenili, pa se jim ne da tega delat.
"Life is hard; it's even harder when you're stupid."
http://goo.gl/2YuS2x
http://goo.gl/2YuS2x
sbawe64 ::
O kakšnem iqju se tu govora ?
Poleg matematično logičnega jih obstaja še en kup...
Gim je kot zdravniški študij v malem, zicleder obvezen.
Razen za mat, fiz in kemija zadnji letnik, tam je potrebno razumeti.
Za vse ostale predmete je dober spomin dovolj, drugače bi povprečno butasti ostali zadaj.
Overall je program in težavnost overrated, preveč balasta in neuporabnih zadev.
Poleg matematično logičnega jih obstaja še en kup...
Gim je kot zdravniški študij v malem, zicleder obvezen.
Razen za mat, fiz in kemija zadnji letnik, tam je potrebno razumeti.
Za vse ostale predmete je dober spomin dovolj, drugače bi povprečno butasti ostali zadaj.
Overall je program in težavnost overrated, preveč balasta in neuporabnih zadev.
2020 is new 1984
Corona World order
Corona World order
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenilo: sbawe64 ()
shark_nm ::
Saj ocene vse povedo... Ste bili med debili, da ste to že pozabili?
Pri Hitlerju je bilo zadosti, da si dvignil roko v malarski pozdrav, 5 al pa 10 takoj, konec debate. Zdaj ni dosti drugače.
Debilnost works in mysterious ways.
Mnogi tule mešate ocene iz neke matematiče logike, postopkov, itd. Pozabljate, da kumulativno oceno dajo ocene iz predmetov, ki so dejansko mešanje zraka.
Pričakovati je, da je že vsaj kdo kdaj pomislil kakšen je bil efekt 8. let OŠ, razen, da znaš na koncu brat in morda nekaj malega računat, izvzemši, da te ima pač država 8 let, del dneva, na povodcu, da ne podivjaš (ne deluje 100%, ker so še drugi faktorji).
Tu je še ta pomislek, že davno sem nekje pobral, da v USA, kjer v vesolje vozijo rakete, pitagorov izrek 'jemljejo' par let kasneje kot pri nas.
Človek se lahko potem vpraša ali tule sistem forsira osme potnike ? Nihče od teh pa ne vozi rakete.
Si opisal kar jaz trobim. Ali je matematika pomemben predmet? Da. Ali bi ga moral piliti vsak? Ne. Tekom šolanaj bi morali učenci izbrati programe katere bodo spoznavali bolj v detajle in tiste kater bodo se naučili tako da razumejo, ne bodo pa frčkali postopke v nedogled. Sedaj imamo pa nekako tako. 5-6 ljudi v učilnici ki ji mje že malo dolgčas ker prof. že 5. razlaga nekaj o višji matematiki ki bi prav vživljenju prišla samo tistim ki bodo šli naprej študirat nekaj v tem slislu (od tistih 6, verjetno 2-3), glavnino ki obupava zdraven in poskuša dojeti kaj trobi tisti na tabli že 6. in 5-6 takih ki so že obupali in vedo da bo pač matematika na popravcu. Jebi ga ljudje smo različni in blestimo v različnih področjih. Hvala bogu. Seveda bo tista večian otrok naredila matematiko z 2-3 ali 4, kolik obodo pa odnesli od tega? 100 ur za nekaj kar nakoncu nima teže. Predstavljaj si 100 ur treninga v nečem kar te zanima. Precej osvojiš.
Vredno ogleda ...
| Tema | Ogledi | Zadnje sporočilo | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Tema | Ogledi | Zadnje sporočilo | |
| » | Ponovni Vpis - GimnazijaOddelek: Šola | 3579 (1772) | miha98 |
| » | Izbira srednje šole - Računalništvo (strani: 1 2 )Oddelek: Šola | 15946 (13634) | amacar |
| » | 4. letnik gimnazije (strani: 1 2 )Oddelek: Šola | 27661 (26430) | Smurf |
| » | Čopki in sponke na zdarvstvenih šolah (strani: 1 2 3 )Oddelek: Loža | 21537 (18731) | Pithlit |