Rusija vs. Ukrajina aka. "Putin - še sladkih 16 let na oblasti?"

BorutO je 7. sep 2023 ob 00:36 izjavil:

Sheteentz je 6. sep 2023 ob 19:05 izjavil:

Napad na Ukrajino pač ni genocid, temveč popolna nesposobnost Ruske imperialistične politike, da si z vsemi možnimi sredstvi podredi sosednjo državo.

Napad na Ukrajino je genocid, ker se Združeni narodi opredeljujejo na genocid kot dejanja, ki vključujejo:
1. uničenje v celoti ali delno določene nacionalne, etnične, rasne ali verske skupine
2. umiranje članov skupine
3. uvedbo ukrepov za preprečevanje rojstva otrok v skupini
4. premestitev otrok iz skupine v drugo skupino

In rusi s putlerjem so še javno potrdili, da kradejo otroke po Ukrajini in jih prisilno zapirajo po raznih ruskih domovih, hkrati pa jim prepovedujejo kakršno koli uporabo ukrajinskega jezika in kakršne koli omembe glede Ukrajine.

Sem tudi 100%, da te ukradene ukrajinske otroke učijo še, kako je njihova Ukrajina zlobna, kako so tam sami nacisti itd ...

Če se ne motim, je uradno številka ukradenih otrok v Ukrajini čez 20.000 ... neuradno pa verjetno še enkrat več - predvsem nimajo informacij o regijah, ki jih rusi okupirajo in Ukrajinci nimajo nobenih stikov z oblastmi tistih regij.

Ne smemo pa pozabiti, da so rusi to počeli že v času v vojne v Afganistanu v 80-ih letih oz. od 1979-1989, ki so isto kradli otroke po afganistanu in jih prisilno deportirali v SZ zaradi (uradnega ruskega mnenja) nadzora nad prebivalstvom, preprečevanje civilistov z uporniki itd.

Ko rusofili tako radi za vsak drek najdejo izgovor za napad rusov v Ukrajini z američani, ki so tudi napadli Afganistan, Irak, Sirijo, Vietnam itd, Američani niso nikoli kradli ozemelj in si jih priključili svoji državi, isto niso nikoli kradli otrok in jih uvažali v svojo državo.

-kekec- je 7. sep 2023 ob 11:10 izjavil:

Javno mnenje v Evropi se obrača, zmeraj več ljudi nasprotuje uničevanju EU gospodarstva in podpori vojni v Ukrajini, kjer je ob polomu ofenzive zmeraj bolj jasno, da Ukrajina v tej vojni ne more zmagati.

Podporniki nadaljevanja vojne v Ukrajine boste kmalu v manjsini...

https://archive.ph/2023.09.06-112512/ht...

With another winter approaching and energy prices climbing anew, the cracks are once more beginning to show. In Germany, there is growing concern over the damage the conflict is doing to the country's once well oiled economic model, partly dependent as it has been on the supply of cheap Russian energy.
"What is to become of our economy", exclaimed one German participant at last week's Ambrosetti Forum of business leaders and economists on the shores of Italy's Lake Como. "Are we to stop making things, and like Britain become an economy based almost entirely on services and the manipulation of money? That is no way forward for Germany".

But at the same time the standoff has created a cost of living crisis across Europe, with rampant inflation and a stagnating economy, and is proving an increasingly divisive force politically.
Just to be clear, I'm not, like Viktor Orbán, arguing that we should settle with Putin by giving him much of what he wants, and then get back to business as usual.
But belief that Europe could somehow emerge from war in Ukraine relatively unscathed was always a case of wishful thinking.
Growing numbers of Germans seems to agree. According to Politico's most recent poll of polls, support for Alternative für Deutschland (AfD), parts of which favour an immediate settlement with Putin, has surged all the way from 10pc since the start of the war to 21pc today. . It was also delusional to think sanctions would bring Putin down. Continued anticipation of that moment is, I fear, a bit like waiting for Godot. He's probably going nowhere.
And in the meantime, the European economy grows ever weaker. Who will sanctions destroy first? Putin or Europe? It may be a close run thing.

-kekec- je 7. sep 2023 ob 11:10 izjavil:

Javno mnenje v Evropi se obrača, zmeraj več ljudi nasprotuje uničevanju EU gospodarstva in podpori vojni v Ukrajini, kjer je ob polomu ofenzive zmeraj bolj jasno, da Ukrajina v tej vojni ne more zmagati.

Podporniki nadaljevanja vojne v Ukrajine boste kmalu v manjsini...

https://archive.ph/2023.09.06-112512/ht...

With another winter approaching and energy prices climbing anew, the cracks are once more beginning to show. In Germany, there is growing concern over the damage the conflict is doing to the country's once well oiled economic model, partly dependent as it has been on the supply of cheap Russian energy.
"What is to become of our economy", exclaimed one German participant at last week's Ambrosetti Forum of business leaders and economists on the shores of Italy's Lake Como. "Are we to stop making things, and like Britain become an economy based almost entirely on services and the manipulation of money? That is no way forward for Germany".

But at the same time the standoff has created a cost of living crisis across Europe, with rampant inflation and a stagnating economy, and is proving an increasingly divisive force politically.
Just to be clear, I'm not, like Viktor Orbán, arguing that we should settle with Putin by giving him much of what he wants, and then get back to business as usual.
But belief that Europe could somehow emerge from war in Ukraine relatively unscathed was always a case of wishful thinking.
Growing numbers of Germans seems to agree. According to Politico's most recent poll of polls, support for Alternative für Deutschland (AfD), parts of which favour an immediate settlement with Putin, has surged all the way from 10pc since the start of the war to 21pc today. . It was also delusional to think sanctions would bring Putin down. Continued anticipation of that moment is, I fear, a bit like waiting for Godot. He's probably going nowhere.
And in the meantime, the European economy grows ever weaker. Who will sanctions destroy first? Putin or Europe? It may be a close run thing.

TESKAn je 7. sep 2023 ob 11:12 izjavil:

Pa kako, ni rusija samozadostna, neskončna, z vsemi surovinami?

fur80 je 7. sep 2023 ob 11:16 izjavil:

Me res zanima v katero državo bi 75% Nemcev pobegnilo.

-kekec- je 7. sep 2023 ob 11:10 izjavil:

Javno mnenje v Evropi se obrača, zmeraj več ljudi nasprotuje uničevanju EU gospodarstva in podpori vojni v Ukrajini, kjer je ob polomu ofenzive zmeraj bolj jasno, da Ukrajina v tej vojni ne more zmagati.

Podporniki nadaljevanja vojne v Ukrajine boste kmalu v manjsini...

https://archive.ph/2023.09.06-112512/ht...

With another winter approaching and energy prices climbing anew, the cracks are once more beginning to show. In Germany, there is growing concern over the damage the conflict is doing to the country's once well oiled economic model, partly dependent as it has been on the supply of cheap Russian energy.
"What is to become of our economy", exclaimed one German participant at last week's Ambrosetti Forum of business leaders and economists on the shores of Italy's Lake Como. "Are we to stop making things, and like Britain become an economy based almost entirely on services and the manipulation of money? That is no way forward for Germany".

But at the same time the standoff has created a cost of living crisis across Europe, with rampant inflation and a stagnating economy, and is proving an increasingly divisive force politically.
Just to be clear, I'm not, like Viktor Orbán, arguing that we should settle with Putin by giving him much of what he wants, and then get back to business as usual.
But belief that Europe could somehow emerge from war in Ukraine relatively unscathed was always a case of wishful thinking.
Growing numbers of Germans seems to agree. According to Politico's most recent poll of polls, support for Alternative für Deutschland (AfD), parts of which favour an immediate settlement with Putin, has surged all the way from 10pc since the start of the war to 21pc today. . It was also delusional to think sanctions would bring Putin down. Continued anticipation of that moment is, I fear, a bit like waiting for Godot. He's probably going nowhere.
And in the meantime, the European economy grows ever weaker. Who will sanctions destroy first? Putin or Europe? It may be a close run thing.

-kekec- je 7. sep 2023 ob 12:09 izjavil:

Sicer se pa nič več ne govori o ukrajinski ofenzivi. The Times poroča o usodi 47.brigade, urjene v Nemčiji in opremljene z zahodno opremo. Katastrofalne 75% izgube, napredek pa zelo majhen.

https://archive.ph/dub43

These were not the death-or-glory remarks of a soldierly narcissist: death is a daily companion to the assault troops. Boyets's unit has already been reduced by casualties to 25 per cent of its original strength since joining counteroffensive operations around the axis towards Robotyne in July, and the life expectancy of storm units is the shortest on the front.
"Ninety per cent of the guys here will die too," added the young fighter matter-of-factly, looking around his comrades as the Skala battalion's storm troops waited to receive orders for another night attack on Sunday. "We know that. Sure, we've breached the first line of the Russians but f***ing hell. What a cost."

On Sunday Brigadier General Oleksandr Tarnavskiy, Ukraine's top general commanding operations in the south of the country, said in an interview with The Observer that he believed the Russians had expended 60 per cent of their resources on their primary defensive position around Robotyne, suggesting that in the limited time before the arrival of the October rains the next phase of the Ukrainian counteroffensive towards the coast of the Sea of Azov, 55 miles to the south, may be smoother than the first. It was an optimistic beat in a day that later included the dismissal of Oleksii Reznikov, Ukraine's minister of defence, whose ministry had become submerged in a sea of corruption allegations.
Yet the Ukrainian soldiers in the vanguard of this offensive talk of the battle around Robotyne and beyond in different terms, describing levels of doctrinal confusion, attritional warfare and massed casualties that have exhausted the Ukrainian armoured units upon which hopes were first pinned to accelerate the progress of the three-month counteroffensive.

Early hopes that the operation could be carried by Leopard tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles to have a decisive impact by the end of the summer now appear forlorn.
Instead the conduct of the campaign has been thrown into the realm of men on their feet, the storm groups such as those of the Skala battalion, infiltrating through minefields under the cover of darkness and fighting desperate close-quarter struggles to clear Russian trenches by night before armoured vehicles can be brought forward.
"Bradleys and Leopards are great until they hit a mine and can't move and get smothered by Russian artillery," said Boyets, whose unit joined the counteroffensive after Ukrainian mechanised units became repeatedly bogged down in minefields along the Robotyne front. "Really, our big lesson of the summer is that mostly we go in on an attack at night carried by just our own legs. The armoured vehicles come up later."

The 47th Brigade, trained in Germany and equipped with Bradley armoured personnel carriers and Leopard tanks, was eulogised by Ukrainian and western media even before the offensive began, despite it lacking the air support that is crucial to Nato's doctrine of warfare.
No sooner had the 47th Brigade spearheaded the main attack on the southern front in early June than it suffered heavy losses. Without air support and with limited mine-clearing abilities the brigade found that its armoured vehicles were frequently immobilised in Russian minefields and then pounded with artillery.
Last week its commander and deputy commander were removed from their positions and replaced, a month after the unit's most high-profile senior NCO, Sergeant Major Valerii Markus, left having criticised the "incompetence" of senior officers.

Meanwhile, in the 15 weeks it took the 47th Brigade to advance eight miles to capture Robotyne, medics attached to the brigade say that the unit's casualties have run into four figures.
So severe has been the fighting that in some instances teams of medics with the 47th had their own numerical strength reduced to 50 per cent because of casualties suffered on missions to collect wounded on the Robotyne front, despite using US-made M-113 armoured personnel carriers to evacuate the wounded.

One team interviewed by The Times said that two of their M-113s had been destroyed while on missions near Robotyne and the numbers of wounded they were required to bring out on a single expedition sometimes exceeded all the armoured vehicles' capabilities.
"Technically, you can carry four wounded out in an M-113," "Taras", a doctor heading one of the medevac units attached to the 47th Brigade, said. "One day in July we piled 24 wounded into and on to a single vehicle. Those July days were the worst. We were just stacking casualties."
His eyes widening and limbs twitching as he described the daily missions to evacuate casualties, Taras went on to detail the continuing Russian bombardment in Robotyne days after its capture. Such is the intensity of fire on the ruined village that Ukrainian troops can move about it only in armoured vehicles in the hours of darkness. Even that is no guarantee of safety.
"Six nights ago we got a mission to get the dead and wounded out of a Bradley that had been hit there by some kind of new Russian shell," Taras said in an account of tumbling words and trauma. "I got as close as I could on foot and got the Bradley commander out. He had lost his leg but the flame had cauterised it so he wasn't bleeding much.
"We couldn't get the gunner out as his body was tangled up in the destroyed turret. The driver had his head blown off and we thought we could get his body back but then the shelling started and we had to abandon him there. Amid all this the engine of the Bradley was still running. Scenes like this are so regular in our lives I think we have lost the ability to feel afraid."

fur80 je 7. sep 2023 ob 12:17 izjavil:

Računa se na zimo. Rusi niti novih zimskih gum naj ne bi mogli pravočasno dostaviti. Tudi druga zimska oprema naj bi jim pešala.
Bomo videli, mi je pa nekako logično kot pravijo nekateri analitiki. Plus naj bi prišla letala.

fikus_ je 7. sep 2023 ob 13:07 izjavil:

fur80 je 7. sep 2023 ob 12:17 izjavil:

Računa se na zimo. Rusi niti novih zimskih gum naj ne bi mogli pravočasno dostaviti. Tudi druga zimska oprema naj bi jim pešala.
Bomo videli, mi je pa nekako logično kot pravijo nekateri analitiki. Plus naj bi prišla letala.

Kot pišeš, še 14 dni je ključnih, ker bo RU zmanjkalo vsega + prišlo bo novo "vundervafe" F16.

Okapi je 6. sep 2023 ob 22:41 izjavil:

Obstaja še ena (teoretična) možnost, da se za Krim razglasi kondominij. Se pravi, da je tako od Ukrajine kot od Rusije.

Obstaja nekaj primerov, recimo Andora (ki sicer ni čisto pravi kondominij), ki ima dva šefa države - francoskega predsednika in španskega škofa.

Condominium (international law) @ Wikipedia

Nekaj podobnega so recimo razmišljali tudi za Trst z okolica po drugi svetovni vojni, ko sta ga hotela dobiti tako Italija kot Jugoslavija. Temu se je reklo Svobodno tržaško ozemlje.
Free Territory of Trieste @ Wikipedia

Za Krim bi potem lahko uvedli še brezcarinsko območje, da bi imeli obe državi od takšne ureditve tudi kakšno gospodarsko korist.

Na tako rešitev bi po mojem pristala tudi Ukrajina (ob tem, da bi NATO dal varnostna zagotovila, v primeru, da bi se Rusi enkrat kasneje premislili).

fikus_ je 7. sep 2023 ob 13:25 izjavil:

Lesoto lepše se obnašaj!
Za UA je vsako orožje, ki ga dobijo novo! In o teh novih "vundervafe" orožjih ste sanjali, da bo preobrnilo tok vojne.
Po več 10 mesecih je frontna linija še vedno tam tam, kot je bila prej.

Lesoto je 7. sep 2023 ob 13:34 izjavil:

Za UA je vsako orožje, ki ga dobijo novo! In o teh novih "vundervafe" orožjih ste sanjali, da bo preobrnilo tok vojne.

Saj je preobrnilo tok vojne. Rusi ne morejo nikamor.

Po več 10 mesecih je frontna linija še vedno tam tam, kot je bila prej.

Kar je silovit uspeh za ukrajinsko stran.

-kekec- je 7. sep 2023 ob 11:10 izjavil:

Javno mnenje v Evropi se obrača, zmeraj več ljudi nasprotuje uničevanju EU gospodarstva in podpori vojni v Ukrajini, kjer je ob polomu ofenzive zmeraj bolj jasno, da Ukrajina v tej vojni ne more zmagati.

Podporniki nadaljevanja vojne v Ukrajine boste kmalu v manjsini...

https://archive.ph/2023.09.06-112512/ht...

With another winter approaching and energy prices climbing anew, the cracks are once more beginning to show. In Germany, there is growing concern over the damage the conflict is doing to the country's once well oiled economic model, partly dependent as it has been on the supply of cheap Russian energy.
"What is to become of our economy", exclaimed one German participant at last week's Ambrosetti Forum of business leaders and economists on the shores of Italy's Lake Como. "Are we to stop making things, and like Britain become an economy based almost entirely on services and the manipulation of money? That is no way forward for Germany".

But at the same time the standoff has created a cost of living crisis across Europe, with rampant inflation and a stagnating economy, and is proving an increasingly divisive force politically.
Just to be clear, I'm not, like Viktor Orbán, arguing that we should settle with Putin by giving him much of what he wants, and then get back to business as usual.
But belief that Europe could somehow emerge from war in Ukraine relatively unscathed was always a case of wishful thinking.
Growing numbers of Germans seems to agree. According to Politico's most recent poll of polls, support for Alternative für Deutschland (AfD), parts of which favour an immediate settlement with Putin, has surged all the way from 10pc since the start of the war to 21pc today. . It was also delusional to think sanctions would bring Putin down. Continued anticipation of that moment is, I fear, a bit like waiting for Godot. He's probably going nowhere.
And in the meantime, the European economy grows ever weaker. Who will sanctions destroy first? Putin or Europe? It may be a close run thing.

-kekec- je 7. sep 2023 ob 13:52 izjavil:

Rusi so medtem prvič uradno objavili namero o svoji ofenzivi, verjetno bodo počakali da Ukrajinci obupajo s svojo ofenzivo in nato bodo oni začeli s svojo ofenzivo. Nič pa niso povedali ne kje in ne kdaj, verjetno se jim nič kaj preveč ne mudi, čas je na njihovi strani.

https://twitter.com/peacemaket71/status...

Russia is already creating the conditions for launching its own offensive in Ukraine, declared Russian General Kartapolov Of course, he did not specify the timing of the start of the offensive operations of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, as everyone will be very surprised 300,000 Russian soldiers are waiting to be ordered to attack at any moment, but the conditions must be created, the work has already begun

-kekec- je 7. sep 2023 ob 13:52 izjavil:

Rusi so medtem prvič uradno objavili namero o svoji ofenzivi, verjetno bodo počakali da Ukrajinci obupajo s svojo ofenzivo in nato bodo oni začeli s svojo ofenzivo. Nič pa niso povedali ne kje in ne kdaj, verjetno se jim nič kaj preveč ne mudi, čas je na njihovi strani.

https://twitter.com/peacemaket71/status...

Russia is already creating the conditions for launching its own offensive in Ukraine, declared Russian General Kartapolov Of course, he did not specify the timing of the start of the offensive operations of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, as everyone will be very surprised 300,000 Russian soldiers are waiting to be ordered to attack at any moment, but the conditions must be created, the work has already begun

Malidelničar je 7. sep 2023 ob 14:04 izjavil:

S tem, da Javelin je res breakthrough orožje, ki je omogočilo uničevanje tankov, ker eksplodira nad kupolo (stare verzije RPG-jev tega niso zmogle), medtem ko je HIMARS star več kot 30 let, Patriot pa tudi najmanj 30 let :) F-16 so pa tudi stari :):)

Smrekar1 je 7. sep 2023 ob 14:22 izjavil:

Javelin ima letos tridesetico. V redni sestav ameriške vojske je prišel leta 1996.

Lesoto je 7. sep 2023 ob 14:34 izjavil:

-kekec- je 7. sep 2023 ob 13:52 izjavil:

Rusi so medtem prvič uradno objavili namero o svoji ofenzivi, verjetno bodo počakali da Ukrajinci obupajo s svojo ofenzivo in nato bodo oni začeli s svojo ofenzivo. Nič pa niso povedali ne kje in ne kdaj, verjetno se jim nič kaj preveč ne mudi, čas je na njihovi strani.

Ja itak ane, tako kot napad Wagnerja iz Belorusije, ki se bo zgodil v začetku julija.

Machete je 7. sep 2023 ob 10:26 izjavil:

Na koncu je vseeno. Fakt je, da je treba Rusijo spravit na kolena, da se odplazi iz UKR in propade v okviru svojih meja, kot so bile l. 91.

Tukaj imaš vodjo ukrajinske obveščevalne službe, ki je lani napovedal zavzetje Krima spomladi 2023.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022...
Head of Ukrainian Intelligence predicts Ukraine to come back to Crimea by late spring

hamez66 je 7. sep 2023 ob 10:49 izjavil:

Ni fakt, da je treba Rusijo spravit na kolena. Če pa tako misliš, pa izvoli vzeti puško v roke in na fronto. Jaz mislim, da se je potrebno izogniti žrtvam in nuklearni vojni in da ima to prioriteto pred izganjanjem Rusije iz Ukrajine. Ukrajina je bila še 2014ga tako proruska, da je izvolila pro-ruskega predsednika.

V glavnem, kar pojdite na fronto, če ste takega mnenja. Jaz bi rad še živel nekaj časa.

Pa preden ste ful pametni, okoli 75% Nemcev bi se na tak ali drugačen način poskušalo izogniti vpoklicu v vojno, ko bodo šle stvari predaleč. Se pravi smo pusiji v demokratični večini :D