IPv6 - Imam ga, mnogo njega

Samo tako kot zanimivost povem, da sem postal "lastnik" 4.722.366.482.869.645.213.696 ipv6 naslovov :).

Se se komu zdi to naravnost idiotizem, da Telekom da tako obmocje navadnemu uporabniku? Meni so dali /56. Bil bi vec kot zadovoljen ze z /120.

To je podobno, kot na začetku razdeljevanja IPV4, ko so posameznim podjetjem dajali cele /8 bloke (na katerih sedijo še danes), češ saj je IP naslovov tako veliko, da jih nikoli ne more zmanjkati. Potem bo pa čez leta spet kriza s pomanjkanjem. Iz zgodovine se ničesar ne naučimo, lahko bi se že iz tega, da so pred leti predvideli, da na celem svetu svetu obstaja potreba za kakšnih 5 računalnikov (z zmogljivostjo daleč pod danajšnjimi telefoni).

IPV4 Srečneži:
3.0.0.0/8 General Electric Company
4.0.0.0/8 Level 3 Communications, Inc.
8.0.0.0/8 Level 3 Communications, Inc.
9.0.0.0/8 IBM
12.0.0.0/8 AT&T Services
15.0.0.0/8 Hewlett-Packard Company
16.0.0.0/8 Hewlett-Packard Company
17.0.0.0/8 Apple Inc.
18.0.0.0/8 MIT
19.0.0.0/8 Ford Motor Company
20.0.0.0/8 Computer Sciences Corporation
32.0.0.0/8 AT&T Global Network Services
34.0.0.0/8 Halliburton Company
38.0.0.0/8 PSINet, Inc.
44.0.0.0/8 Amateur Radio Digital Communications
48.0.0.0/8 Prudential Securities Inc.
56.0.0.0/8 US Postal Service

JAz sem v začetnem navdušenju pograbil na T-2 /64, potem pa dojel, da default Slaac itd avtomatizmi pričakujejo toliko za vsak mrežni segment.

Kar je bilo v bistvu OK, ker sem se moral sam malo pomatrati in nečesa naučiti- kako recimo zrihtat DHCPv6, da ti sam uredi tudi to- nastavi masko podmreže na nekaj drugega kot /64 itd.

In ja, to se mi zdi debilno. Zdaj se spet preseravajo s temi IPv6 spani, jutri, ko se bo pojavilo kaj nepredvidenega, bojo pa spet neki novi "kitajci" krivi za sušo v naslovnem poolu.

Obligatory xkcd: https://xkcd.com/865/

Brez panike, /64 je čisto ok. Malo poglejte, kako je segmentiran ipv6 naslovni prostor.

se tole:

> - delitev omrežja naj bo vedno na meji 4-bitov (nibble boundary)

zato /56 in ne /60

> - delitev naslovnega prostora naj bo hierarhična in naj omogoča agregacij

ISP/LIR dobi
/29
to lahko razdeli na
8x /32
slednje spet na /40 'per router' in potem znotraj tega rezervira posamezne /48 za p2p, dhcp,ia_pd.

bgp table inet6 bo dosti manjsa zaradi agregacije. ze ipv4 je sedaj prevec za dolocene routerje.

V bistvu v6 naslovov je res veliko, zato podpiram tako deljenje in ni bojazni, da bo nekoč ista zgodba, kot pri v4.

Upam trditi za 30+ let naprej.

This number may not look large, but I want to put it into perspective visually, so you have an idea of what we're looking at. If each IP was a single pixel, this would produce an image 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 pixels square. Now, my monitor has the capability of showing 105 pixels per linear inch. This means my monitor would need to be 2,772,778,991,358 miles in length and width if I wanted to see the image without any scrolling. Just for comparison, a light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles. It would take almost 6 months traveling at the speed of light to start from one end of my monitor to reach the opposite. Want an image to wrap your mind around it? The maximum distance of Pluto from our Sun is approximately 4,557,000,000 miles away. We need to do that distance about 600 times before reaching the end of my monitor. We're still well within the Milky Way however.

...:TOMI:... je 4. avg 2015 ob 17:31 izjavil:

V bistvu v6 naslovov je res veliko, zato podpiram tako deljenje in ni bojazni, da bo nekoč ista zgodba, kot pri v4.

Upam trditi za 30+ let naprej.

Ampak 30 let za take sisteme ni veliko. Ko bo potrebna zamenjava, bo daleč večje sr***e kot je bilo in je z IPv4 preprosto zato, ker bo sistem daleč večji.

In tisti ki sanjajo o zrnih peska, kvadratnih milimetrih itd pozabljajo, da se pool ne bo porabljal tako, linearno. Oziroma bo, ampak ni ta del problematičen.

Problem bo, ko bo neka sprememba okoliščin zahtevala recimo ekstra 8 ali 16 bitov extra. In ko se bo ponovila. Takrat bo frka ker bo bitov zmanjkalo na eni strani, medtem ko bo na drugi- pri posameznih userjih s celimi /64 ali še veliko večjimi spani totalno obilje.

Brezveze. Cela fora IPv6 je neka stabilnost v prihodnosti glede na _dosedanje_ izkušnje.

Ker pač ne moreš biti 100% ziher kaj bo jutri, je tako preseravanje na osnovi preteklih izkušenj nespametno.

Nekako tako kot tista nakladanja o tem, koliko trilijard let bi morali vsi računalniki tega vesolja mroali delati na iskanju kombinacij za nek kriptoključ. Dokler nekdo ne razsuje algoritem na svojem prenosniku.

Point naslavljanja pri IPv6 je, da naslovov ne bo NIKOLI zmanjkalo. To ni samo overkill, to je ultra masiven overkill.
-- darkolord, 2015

"640K ought to be enough for anybody."
-- Bill Gates, 1981

“We will never make a 32 bit operating system.”
-- Bill Gates, 1989

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
-- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.

"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olsen, founder of Digital Equipment Corporation, 1977

"The world potential market for copying machines is 5000 at most."
-- IBM, to the eventual founders of Xerox, saying the photocopier had no market large enough to justify production, 1959.

Brez zamere, moral sem :) Bomo videli čez 20 let...

Ne, ne upam reči nobene take številke. Ker kljub temu, da se nam danes zdi, da je IPv6 naslovov res več kot preveč, ne vemo, kako se bo tehnologija razvijala v prihodnosti. Glede na velike kikse v raznih napovedih v zgodovini sem pač previden oz. privzeto skeptičen. Itak pa kot posameznik nimam vpliva na to. Kot sem rekel, bomo videli.

Ne smejo se ponoviti napake nesmiselnih velikosti dodeljenih blokov. Kaj ti pomaga 128-bitni naslov (od tega je itak 64 bitov že po dizajnu zapravljenih), če se morda zgodi, da bodo dodeljevali npr. /16 segmente posameznim organizacijam, kot se je podobno dogajalo ob začetku razdeljevanja IPv4, tako da ima npr. HP kar dva /8 IPv4 bloka (33 mio IPv4 naslovov ali skoraj 1% vseh javnih IPv4 naslovov).


Recimo en zanimiv pogled na stvar:

With IPv6 addresses, on the other hand, there's a very real temptation to start encoding things in various subfields of the addresses. And the IPv6 addressing architecture is probably the first place where you see that happening. Most IPv6 addresses are divided into a 64-bit network identifier and a 64-bit interface identifier. The network identifier can be divided further into fields assigned by the RIR, then by the LIR, then finally comes the subnetwork identifier.

There are working groups inside IETF that have succumbed to the siren call to encode information in the bits of IPv6 addresses. Teredo, 6to4, IRON and NAT64 are some examples of protocols that embed IPv4 addresses in bits carved out between a short prefix assigned by IANA and the subnet identifier. The Host Identity Protocol wants to encode cryptographic material in IPv6 addresses using a protocol called ORCHID. These are just the IETF efforts I know about that eat surprisingly large blocks of IPv6 address space by encoding things into subfields.

I predict once the vast teeming masses of Internet application developers really start cranking on IPv6 adoption, the street will find many new and interesting uses for that large address space, and the Internet registries will be inundated with demand for blocks of sufficient size to support their designs. Once you start trying to cram useful information into IP addresses, you pretty quickly discover that the number of available addresses isn't as galactic as those news articles and blog posts you're reading would like you to believe. Now, I feel certain that the experts at the NRO and the regional Internet registries know all this, but I suspect the rest of the Internet engineering community is developing some unhealthy misconceptions as interest in IPv6 spreads.

Vir

Daniel je 4. avg 2015 ob 19:39 izjavil:

Meni še sedaj ni jasno kaj pomeni /64 in /5

https://www.ripe.net/about-us/press-cen...

darkolord je 5. avg 2015 ob 01:38 izjavil:

Pri IPv6 je nekdo naredil točno nekaj takega. Število IP naslovov ni "slučajno" tako veliko.

ta "nekdo" je oktobra 2012 predaval o IPv6 v Ljubljani > http://go6.si/7-slo-ipv6-summit/

Tokratni glavni govorec bo Robert Hinden (Checkpoint fellow), ki je skupaj s Stevom Deeringom zasnoval arhitekturo protokola IPv6 (s standardom RFC 1883, ki je bil kasneje zamenjan s standardom RFC 2460).

poglejte si video predavanja (mora biti nekje na vox arnes), kjer govori o tem zakaj je to in to v IPv6.
Sprva so hoteli 64 bit, a so rekli "dajmo pretiravati" in so sli na 128bit.

prezentacija je na http://go6.si/wp-content/uploads/2012/1...

preberite si se prispevke (nasega) Ivana Pepelnjaka o IPv6 http://blog.ipspace.net/search/label/IP...

tx-z je 5. avg 2015 ob 08:44 izjavil:

Zakaj pa jih rabimo sploh toliko. Nej dajo 1000 naslovov na osebo in je vrh glave dovolj. Še za večje firme je to preveč.

Ne rabimo jih. Ampak od viška ne boli glava in zato ti zaradi tega ni treba skrbeti.

"Conserving IP[v6] addresses is about as trivial as trying to save oxygen molecules while you take a walk. Don't try to do it. "