Go Obama!

Hm. Torej, kaksno so imeli drzavljanstvo otroci, ki so se med zgoraj omenjenima letoma rodili materam, ki so bile mlajse od 21 let in so bili ocetje ne-drzavljani ZDA?

So bili kar brez?

Možnost za to, da se ne prebije je manjša kot AAAA:FR.

Kakšno neumnost si izlegu! Verjetnost, da na videz povsem zdrav človek pod 50 ne dočaka večera, ker ga prej kapč ali fršlok, je precej večja od ena proti desetine milijonov. Večerov do preboja je pa še preko 70. Že samo to!

Eh Fuzija ...

Včasih je fajn brat tudi med vrsticami. Nisem te izjave dal zato, ker je matematično pravilna. Hotel sem ti samo prikazat, da je zelo majhna verjetnost da Obama ne bo 44. predcednik ZDA. Ker se že na take malenkosti obešaš, da nima smisla. Rajši sprejmi, da je zmagal in bodi tiho.
Kdo pa neumnosti klati pa ne bi zaj...

Tomas, a ti si pa zlahta z mccainom, pa siris tu neke zablode. Najbolje da posljes en mail na sodisce v usa in zahtevas, da razveljavijo volitve, drugace bos izvedu teroristicni napad na obamo. Kdo pa bi rad vidu mccaina(bush2) na oblasti? Men gre na k...c ze njegov glas, ker govori k en homo. Sploh pa ker si omenjal neke frsloke&stuff, ima veliko vec moznosti za zdravstvene tezave starina mcc. Spadas pa pod 10% svetovne populacije, ki je anti obama. Poglej na iftheworldcouldvote.com. Pa ugasn ze to lajno, ker ne rabis 100x eno in isto povedat. Kot da bi jaz bemtil cez kitajski pozarni zid, s katerim kratijo clovekove pravice. Presel se v usa, da bos lahko glasoval za tvojega kandidata.

Z mau sreče - ne.

Bote rabli kar konkretno količino sreče.

Zakaj pa tebe briga kakšna je notranja ureditev v ZDA? Rajši bi se osredotočo na njihovo zunanjo politiko in ekonomsko ureditev.
Sicer se tak verjetno tudi v teh pogledih ne strinjaš z Obamo, samo mi je zanimivo.

Edit: podvajanje besed besed

Kdor pa je rojen NA ozemlju USA, je avtomatsko državljan, celo če sta oba starša nezakonita priseljenca.

Še več.
Enako velja, če se rodi na krovo ladje, ki pluje pod zastavo ZDA, ali na krovu aviona, ki leti pod zastavo ZDA (da o veleposlaništvih sploh ne govorim).

Hm hm ...

Hiter pogovor z googlom se je koncal s tole povezavo:

http://www.kitv.com/politics/17860890/d...

Izgleda, da sta ORIGINALNI certifikat (ne kopija, ne duplikat, ne izpisek ...) videli dve visoki uradni osebi, kar postavlja teorijo Thomasa v manj verjetno.


LP

ja, če bi ga Bush mlajši potrdil - to bi Thomasu verjetno zadostovalo

Poleg tega čas zgubljate z nepomembnimi podrobnostmi.

ZDA grejo naprej - in tam vse vsi pogovarjajo o tem, kakšnega psa si bodo first family omislili.

Ja. Kakšna sreča torej, da ga ima :)

In teoretično vprašam. Kaj pa potem če Obama predloži svoj originalni rojstni list in dokaže, da ispolnjuje vse pogoje, da je lahko kandidiral za predsednika?

Eden od republikanskih kandidatov - kongresnik Ron Paul - je kot prvi "iz establišmenta" dal tozadevno izjavo, ki ni prizanesljiva do Obame. Pravi, da že en čas spremlja afero. Obami seveda ni "naklonjen". Upa, da se pravniki ne bodo ustrašili, ali delali kar nekaj po svoje. Čeprav se tudi zaveda, da nemiri najbrž bodo, če Obama ne izpoljnjuje pogojev.

Tisti, ki so tule na tem forumu prepričani, kako je z Obaminim državljanstvom vse AOK ... se nimajo kej vznemirjati. Certifikat na jpg na factcheck.org jim je dovolj. Po njihovo bo moral biti AOK tudi 4 sodnikom Vrhovnega sodišča.

Če certifikata ne bo, kaj sledi? Ponovne volitve, se pogleda stran kot v Peruju, kaj tretjega?

Gerald Ford, je že bil tak neizvoljeni predsednik.

Najprej je odstopil Agnew, Nixonov podpredsednik. Potem je Nixon dobil Geralda Forda za podpredsednika. Potem je odstopil še Nixon in Gerald Ford je bil do rednih volitev 1976 predsednik. Seveda si je omislil tudi podpredsednika - Nelsona Rockefellerja.

Zdej bi utegnilo biti kaj analognega. Biden postane predsednik, Hilary podpredsednica, Biden kmalu odstopi in Hilary je predsednica do volitev 2012.

Naprimer.

Samo certifikata NE BO. Eni naivno razmišljajo, da bo Obama nesel tistega iz factcheck.org.jpg sodnikom, pa bo.

NI RES. Njim mora dobaviti VAULT. Dolgo verzijo. Kjer se poznajo njegova preimenovanja in vandranja, zraven pa še ime zdravnika v porodnišnici in še polno take krame.

Kot so rekli v Srbiji za Miloševića tik pred koncem - Gotov je!

Če ga zavrnejo, bo za nadaljno strategijo povprašal bratranca Odingo.

Če ga zavrnejo, bo za nadaljno strategijo povprašal bratranca Odingo.

Točn tko. Amerika najbrž ne bo mogla it skozi to, čisto brez reprize Kenije izpred kakšnega leta.

Samo pomnoži sovražnost nekaterih forumašev do mene, ki sem celo zadevo mrhovinarsko privlekel še sem ... z milijardo ... pa boš za silo dobil količino emocij v U.S.

Obama != Ustava.

Kolk ste eni čudni. Bi kar, da njemu ne bi bilo treba VSEM Američanom pokazati, da izpolnjuje pogoje.

Berg != vsi Američani. On pač toži Obamo čisto po svoje, ne kot predstavnik večje skupine ali celo celega naroda. Firbčen je in bi pač rad po svoje preverjal ustreznost kandidatov, čeprav za to (verjetno) ni pristojen.

Še enkrat pa bom ponovil - ne verjamem, da bi Obama (ali katerikoli pretekli predsednik) lahko prišel do inavguracije, ne da bi se predtem vsaj enkrat na neki točki preverilo njegove 'kvalifikacije'. Če to slučajno ne drži... se postavlja pod vprašaj ustavnost prav vseh dosedanjih predsednikov.

Kdo hudiča je pa pristojen, če ne državljani US?

Ta isti državljani, ki recimo na volitvah izvolijo enega kandidata, pa potem elektorji izvolijo drugega? Jah, vsega pač državljani ne morejo početi neposredno sami. Ali lahko sami zahtevajo presojo ustreznosti kandidata za predsednika? Ne vem; Pennsylvania Eastern District Court pravi da ne, po 1.12. bomo videli, če se Vrhovnemu sodišču da presojati to odločitev.

Doslej so vsi predsedniki dobavili vse dokumente na vpogled.

Komu?

Očitno čuti podporo kakšne milijarde ljudi, da ne uboga ameriške ustave.

Nimaš pojma, če ne uboga ameriške ustave.

Uuuu ste najezan. Poglejte se, kakšna živčnost in jeza iz vas bruha in govori.

Nisem ne jezen, ne živčen. Samo razlagam ti, kje tvoja logika šepa.

Ampak zgleda tega ne dojameš, zato vedno znova ignoriraš tuje argumente in kot lajna ponavljaš svoje, po tem, ko ti jih že ovržemo.

Sploh je pa smešno, da ti druge obtožuješ živčnosti, glede na tvoje reakcije na Obamo...

Obami je Vrhovno sodišče naložilo, da do 1. decembra izdobavi vault certifikat.

Jah, ni čisto tako... preberi še enkrat zgoraj. Nato pa pogooglaj za Writ of Certiorari in kak link z dosedanjim potekom primera Berg vs. Obama.

Meni je kar malo smešno:

- da bi hotel profesor ustavnega prava (kar Obama je) zavestno kršiti dokument, ki ga mora imeti v mezincu
- da bi mu podporniki na lepe oči zmetali stotisoče dolarjev v kampanjo - jaz še evra ne dam iz žepa brez razloga
- da bi ga, kot neverodostojnega varovalo 100 varnostnikov, pa še prisegel ni. Edino, če je to navada za vse "lepo zagorele" afroameričane, pa tega do sedaj nisem opazil.

Če ima toliko jajc, da vse to počne brez papirja, postavlja na kocko vse, kar ima....Malo verjetno ali skoraj neverjetno.

Pri tem, da meni deluje tisti papir čisto ok. Na prednji strani podatki, na zadnji štempelj, datum in podpis. Lahko pa je ponarejen, kot oni drugi od Patricije, ne vem, kot Thomas, ti tudi ne.

In Virginia, which was just ruled on yesterday, the judge went further and said that the certificate of live birth was good proof that Obama was born in Hawaii, and there was NO proof presented that he was born anywhere else.

Here is a report from a web posting that is not official, of course, but it seems accurate mainly because the fellow who posted it was AGAINST Obama. He is disappointed, but accepts the ruling. You can find this post at : (
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-new...

(Note that sometimes the author correctly puts COLB correctly and sometimes he types it as CLOB, but he means certificate of live birth throughout.)

Quotes:

The Court made the following findings:

1. The Certification of Live Birth presented to the court is unquestionably authentic.

The court noted that the certification had a raised seal from the state of Hawaii, had a stamp bearing the signature of the registrar of vital statistics. The court found “wholly unpersuasive” any of the internet claims that the birth certificate was altered in any way. Furthermore, the document itself was accompanied by an affidavit from the State Health Director (of Hawaii) verifying that the document is an authentic certification of live birth. The court held that there could be no doubt that the document was authentic unless one believed that the state of Hawaii’s health department were in on an elaborate and complex conspiracy – and that there is not a shred of evidence that this is the case.

2. The Certification of Live Birth establishes that Mr. Obama is a natural born citizen.

The affidavit of the State Health Director states that the information on the CLOB is identical to the information on the “vault” copy of the birth certificate, and that both documents establish that Mr. Obama was born in Honolulu. The Court noted that the CLOB is valid for all citizenship purposes. The court noted our argument that the COLB is not valid for determining citizenship, but referred us to Hawaiian law that states otherwise. “There is no difference between a certificate and a certification of live birth in the eyes of the state. For instance, either can be used to confirm U.S. citizenship to obtain a passport or state ID.” The court found that Hawaiian law makes the COLB valid for all purposes with the exception of determining native Hawaiian heritage for certain state and federal benefits. The court held that if Mr. Obama were born elsewhere and the birth registered in Hawaii, the “place of birth” line on the COLB would reflect that fact. The court stated that there could be no doubt that Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii and that any argument to the contrary was fanciful and relied on completely unsubstantiated internet rumors.

3. For that reason, 8 U.S.C. §1401(g), which at the relevant time provided as follows:

“The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth: ***(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years:…..
is irrelevant to this matter, as Mr. Obama was conclusively born in Hawaii.

4. Mr. Obama did hold dual citizenship in the U.S. and Kenya until he became an adult. When Barack Obama Jr. was born Kenya was a British colony. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.’s children: “British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.” In other words, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and a citizen of the United Kingdom by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UK. Obama’s UK citizenship became an Kenyan citizenship on Dec. 12, 1963, when Kenya formally gained its independence from the United Kingdom. The court noted that Chapter VI, Section 87 of the Kenyan Constitution specifies that:

1. Every person who, having been born in Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963…

2. Every person who, having been born outside Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall, if his father becomes, or would but for his death have become, a citizen of Kenya by virtue of subsection (1), become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963.
Thus the court held that as a citizen of the UK who was born in Kenya, Obama’s father automatically received Kenyan citizenship via subsection (1). So given that Obama qualified for citizen of the UK status at birth and given that Obama’s father became a Kenyan citizen via subsection (1), thus Obama did in fact have Kenyan citizenship in 1963.

However, the court further held that the Kenyan Constitution prohibits dual citizenship for adults. Kenya recognizes dual citizenship for children, but Kenya’s Constitution specifies that at age 21, Kenyan citizens who possesses citizenship in more than one country automatically lose their Kenyan citizenship unless they formally renounce any non-Kenyan citizenship and swear an oath of allegiance to Kenya. The court held that there was no evidence that Mr. Obama has ever renounced his U.S. citizenship or sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4, 1982.

The court held that there was no legal requirement that Mr. Obama renounce his Kenyan citizenship or affirm his U.S. citizenship in order to maintain his status as a natural born citizen.

5. Mr. Obama did not lose his U.S. Citizenship based on the acts of his parents, including adoption by an Indonesian citizen. The Court held that no action taken by the parents of an American child can strip that child of his citizenship. The court cited to the 1952 Immigration & Nationality Act, Title III, Chapter 3, Sections 349 and 355, which was in effect in the late 1960s when Obama went to Indonesia, and which stated that a minor does not lose his US citizenship upon the naturalization of his parents or any other actions of his parents, so long as the minor returns to the US and establishes permanent US residency before the age of 21. Thus the adoption of Obama did not serve to strip him of his U.S. citizenship. The fact that Indonesian law does not allow dual citizenship is irrelevant, as U.S. law controls. Furthermore, the Court held that traveling on a foreign passport does not strip an American of his citizenship. The Court noted first that there was no evidence that Mr. Obama traveled on an Indonesian passport (Mr. Berg and others we reached out to for evidence never provided any evidence of this claim or any other of the claims we could have used some proof of.) Nonetheless, the court held that such travel does not divest an American of his citizenship.

The Court makes other holdings and findings that I won’t bother you with here. Needless to say, the decision is wholly against us. The court finds the claims against Mr. Obama’s citizenship “wholly unpersuasive and bordering on the frivolous, especially in light of the complete absence of any first-hand evidence on any critical issue” and further classifies it as “conspiracy theory of the lowest sort, fueled by nothing than internet rumor and those who truly want to believe egging each other on.”

Tisti, ki so tule na tem forumu prepričani, kako je z Obaminim državljanstvom vse AOK ... se nimajo kej vznemirjati. Certifikat na jpg na factcheck.org jim je dovolj. Po njihovo bo moral biti AOK tudi 4 sodnikom Vrhovnega sodišča.

Zakaj pa ne bi bil? Ima štempl, podpis in vse potrebne podatke. Kaj še te hočeš več?

Zakaj pa ne bi bil? Ima štempl, podpis in vse potrebne podatke. Kaj še te hočeš več?

Hja, nima jih, v tem je problem.

Dejansko ma Obama dva "problema". Prvi je "native born citizenship", drugi pa, ali so mu ga starši morebiti kdaj poradirali.

Znano je namreč, da je Obama hodil v šolo v Indoneziji.
Znano je tudi, da so (takrat) tam v šole lahko hodili le otroci z državljanstvom (zato ga je njegov očim posvojil.)
Znano je tudi, da takrat Indonezija ni dovoljevala dvojnega državljanstva.

So morali starši Indonezijskim oblastem prinest kakšno dokazilo da otrok nima nobenega drugega državljanstva? Recimo kak uraden ameriški dokument, ki preklicuje ameriško državljanstvo?

Povsem mogoče je, da bo Obama izvoljen predsednik, čeprav se izkaže da ni NBC, ker je sodišče reklo da njegov status nobenega državljana nima kaj brigat. O tem se naj bi izrekli volilci. Ki pa so se že izrekli in ob tem implicitno verjeli da je NBC. Ja, ustavna kriza par exelence.

Preberem naj to kar je bilo MORDA napisano? Pa še tisto kar MORDA ni bilo napisano?
Dej, žiga, poradiraj tale moj in svoj post, pa MORDA napiš kak konkreten odgovor.

Par postov više imaš:

The Court noted that the COLB is valid for all citizenship purposes. The court noted our argument that the COLB is not valid for determining citizenship, but referred us to Hawaiian law that states otherwise. “There is no difference between a certificate and a certification of live birth in the eyes of the state. For instance, either can be used to confirm U.S. citizenship to obtain a passport or state ID.” The court found that Hawaiian law makes the COLB valid for all purposes with the exception of determining native Hawaiian heritage for certain state and federal benefits. The court held that if Mr. Obama were born elsewhere and the birth registered in Hawaii, the “place of birth” line on the COLB would reflect that fact. The court stated that there could be no doubt that Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii and that any argument to the contrary was fanciful and relied on completely unsubstantiated internet rumors.

Merodajni detajl:

The court held that if Mr. Obama were born elsewhere and the birth registered in Hawaii, the "place of birth" line on the COLB would reflect that fact.

Ampak, drugi pa hkrati trdijo, da:

To obtain the COLB in 1961 required nothing but the parent(s)/guardian to fill out a standardized form filling in the blanks.

Zato pa imajo/imamo več stopenj sodišč, da se včasih vsaj kašen spregled tudi popravi.
Obami do 1. decembra NI TREBA ničesar pokazat, le čas ima, če hoče. Če bo al pa ne bo, se bo potem sodnik odločil kaj narest z zgornjo citirano razsodbo. Jo potrdit al pa razveljavit.

Ono z indonezijskim državljanstvom pa so obupani poskusi nasprotnikov Obame, da najdejo še tako "čudno" stvar v njegovi preteklosti, ki bi lahko ogrozila njegovo izvolitev.

Morda bi tablete, ki jih predpisuješ drugim, najprej vzel sam?
Pozanimaj se o pogojih za inodnezijsko državljanstvo. Dvojno državljanstvo namreč dovolijo šele od leta 2006.