Zakaj so električni avtomobili prava stvar

sloxl8 je 18. nov 2020 ob 11:57 izjavil:

- Različna segmenta, ista generacija: Toyota Prius druge generacije je kurila 7l/100km, MB C 220CDI je kuril 6 (če si imel težkih nogo), pa je težji/višji segment in še več konjev in navora je imel.
- Isti segment, ista generacija: Toyota Corrola TS bi naj imela porabo 4l/100km (po prospektih), pa so na več testih ugotovili, da niti pod razno ne pride pod 6, Škoda Octavia 1.6TDI med drugim kuri 5 (s težo nogo).

To so moje izkušnje.

Torej, hibrid, hvala lepa - pa še višja nabavna cena je sedaj, ko ni subvencije.

Verjamem tvojim izkušnjam. Na pamet bi rekel, da se dosti voziš po avtocesti.
A če gledam primerjavo z nekaj 100 uporabniki s spritmonitorja, bi rekel, da hibride voziš preveč dinamično (seveda, ker proti močnem turbodizlu niso tako poskočni) ali pa jih voziš preveč po AC.
Spritmonitor:
Prius 2gen: 5,2L
Mercedes C220d: 7,2L
Auris TS: 5,4L
Octavia tdi: 5,6L

Še testi - s porabami na testih je tako, da je čisto odvisno kako težko nogo ima tester. Včasih so bile te številke navadno višje od povprečja, ker vozniki ocenjujejo tudi zmogljivost, lego, ... Nekaj let pa ima AM "normni krog" ki ponazarja precej realnejšo porabo, je nekako znotraj umirjenejšega povprečja.

Prius 2: avg: 7,8L
C220cdi: min 7,2, avg: 8,3

Auris TS 2013: 5,3L
Auris TS 2019: 4,4L
Octavia 1.6tdi 2017: 5,5L
Octavia 2.0tdi 2020: 4,1L

Utk je 18. nov 2020 ob 12:27 izjavil:

sloxl8 je 18. nov 2020 ob 11:57 izjavil:

- Različna segmenta, ista generacija: Toyota Prius druge generacije je kurila 7l/100km, MB C 220CDI je kuril 6 (če si imel težkih nogo), pa je težji/višji segment in še več konjev in navora je imel.
- Isti segment, ista generacija: Toyota Corrola TS bi naj imela porabo 4l/100km (po prospektih), pa so na več testih ugotovili, da niti pod razno ne pride pod 6, Škoda Octavia 1.6TDI med drugim kuri 5 (s težo nogo).

To so moje izkušnje.

Torej, hibrid, hvala lepa - pa še višja nabavna cena je sedaj, ko ni subvencije.

min, avg, max
Corolla hibrid 180 konjev 4,41 5,29 6,70
Corolla hibrid 122 konjev 3,69 4,97 6,80
Octavia 1,6 TDI 90-110 konjev 4,42 5,38 6,53
Octavia 1,6 TDI DSG 5,17 5,71 5,96
Octavia 2,0 TDI DSG 4,67 6,06 8,82

To so izkušnje 1000ih. Ne enega. Ki morda niti vozit ne zna.

Oktavia 1.6 TDI povprečna porava 4.4 l/100km zadnjih 5k kilometrov, pri vožnji 95% na tempomatu po hitri cesti pri hitrosti 115km/h. Na 225/45/17 gumah. Pa bi se dalo it še nižje.

Oktavia 1.6 TDI povprečna porava 4.4 l/100km zadnjih 5k kilometrov, pri vožnji 95% na tempomatu po hitri cesti pri hitrosti 115km/h. Na 225/45/17 gumah. Pa bi se dalo it še nižje.

Vpiši v spritmonitor. Bo povprečna poraba padla na peti decimalki.
Hibridi so, kar se tiče porabe v povprečju tistih, ki jih vozijo, kar zgledni.

Utk je 18. nov 2020 ob 07:53 izjavil:

https://siol.net/avtomoto/zgodbe/so-tab...

Test capture plugin. Na 360 km so porabili 20 litrov bencina, s tem, da so se trikrat priklopili na polnilnico. Moja corolla, ki je večji avto, ne bi porabila praktično nič več.
In kar je najbolj smešno, novinarji so navdušeni nad to porabo... Tolk o tem kolk jih je za upoštevat.

Tu se vidi hiba (plugin) hibrida.
Ni namenjen za tako uporabo. Polovica avtoceste, filali so pa vsega skupaj ene 4kWh? Vprašanje, če so sploh startali s polnim.
Poleg tega križanci itak niso namenjeni za AC, tam bi dizel megan (ali pa octavia, ki je pop zadnje poste) pila 5L. 6 s težko nogo.
Fak, še moj 20 let stari dinozaver z 2,5L motorjem na AC pri 130 spije dobrih 8L bencina. 30k vreden captur pa 7,4

Tudi če med tednom dejansko uporabljaš plugina, za kar je bil namenjen; torej polniš ponoči in se voziš dnevno do 30km stran, je precej predrag za to. Bolje kupiti električen avto. Za isto ceno dobiš Leafa.
Rečejo: Ja, ampak imam 500km ali daljše poti vsake toliko: - se da tudi z električnim.
Če je pa teh poti dejansko veliko, je pač ceneje kupiti dizla.
Če ti dizel smrdi (kot meni), pa je spet ceneje voziti na plin.
Če ti je plin prekompliciran, pa uporabi javni transport. Oz kupi navadnega bencinarja.
Za 20k se dobi menda že skoraj polno opremljen captur.

To bi bila zelo ekonomicna voznja v primeru Panamere 4 E-hybrid :P

PSA Boss Thinks Not All Carmakers Will Survive The Coming Decade

Hehe, kako iz '82 ferarija narest avto:

Lažji, hitrejši, z več dosega, pa še hišo bo napajal.

Crosspost s teme Tesla 3:

Taxis are fed up with Tesla defects and demand EUR 1.3 million

https://fd.nl/ondernemen/1364587/taxi-s...

Kopirana vsebina v angleščini:

In a large warehouse at Schiphol-Rijk, dozens of black Tesla taxis are chained to their charging points. Due to the corona crisis, taxi transport for air travelers has come to a standstill. Next year, it is hoped, travelers will dare to fly again. Then the Teslas whiz back and forth. There is another reason why they stand still. There is something wrong with about twenty taxis, says location manager Tofik Ohoudi. In his long career as a fleet manager, he has never seen more trouble than at Tesla. In one the power steering is broken. With the other, the drive shafts broke down after just a few months. Another recurring defect, even in brand new cars: a broken wishbone, an essential part of the suspension. 'Bizarre. Normally that only happens after 500,000 kilometers.

' Fumbling with mileage Taxi Jappie from Zwanenburg, who drives at Schiphol together with Bios, has the same experience with its 10 Teslas. 'I have never had to replace a wishbone or drive shafts at Mercedes. Not even when we did wheelchair transport and the vans were heavily loaded, 'says director Jill Sweijen.

In June 2019 one of her taxis has to go to the service center in Amsterdam-Zuidoost. Problems with navigation. For example, if the car departs from Haarlem, the navigation system will start the journey at Pieter Calandlaan in Amsterdam. Sweijen also asks Tesla to look at the odometer. The trip statements from the board computer, which taxi drivers are legally obliged to keep, does not match the position on the dashboard for at least seven of her taxis. This changes as soon as the car gets a 'reset', or if the internet connection is interrupted. Sometimes it differs tens of kilometers from your own administration, in one case even more than 4700 km. The taxi company could collide with the tax authorities and the ILT regulator: if the odometer readings are incorrect, this could indicate fraud.

The mechanics at Tesla have a simple solution: they adjust the mileage themselves, according to e-mail correspondence between the taxi company and Tesla, which is in the hands of the FD.

Taxi Jappie is not comfortable. Adjusting counter readings is a criminal offense. That is why Sweijen asks whether Tesla wants to explain in writing per car why it has adjusted the mileage. The taxi company has never received that statement. Range too low 'As far as I know, Bios has never taken a supplier to court. Normally you can work it out together. ' says CEO René van der Veer at the Bios head office in Rotterdam. There was sometimes something with the cars of the previous supplier Mercedes Benz, but then 'the men with white coats came from Germany and it was solved.' The subpoena was delivered last June. And the relationship started so promisingly, six years ago. On October 16, 2014, a procession of dozens of honking Teslas drives around Schiphol Airport under police escort. The airport is going 100% electric, a world first. Bios, together with SchipholTaxi, has been granted an eight-year concession to allow emission-free driving at Schiphol. For Tesla, still a small player at the time, it was a nice boost. Any business traveler traveling from the airport can no longer ignore the brand.

According to Bios, Tesla does not honor the agreements from 2014. Bios bought 72 Model S cars for an amount of EUR 5.7 million. Of this, EUR 720,000 was subsidized by RVO and the municipality of Amsterdam to boost electric driving. An important part of the deal is the range. Schiphol requires that taxis with a full battery must be able to travel at least 400 km. "Tesla promised that would be no problem at all," explains Van der Veer. "But our taxis never made it." Tesla defends itself by arguing that the taxi company uses the cars too intensively. Nonsense, says Van der Veer. 'We had emphasized in the negotiations that this was a crucial point for us as a taxi company, where we travel a lot.' Expensive replacement deal In 2016, Tesla and Bios reached a compromise: 64 Model S cars will be exchanged for the new, more expensive Model X. Total costs for Bios: more than EUR 7.9 million.

Amsterdam is now also drawing its wallet and subsidizing EUR 320,000. When the cars are finally delivered from November 2017, the range appears to be in order. But now they have so many flaws that the Model X can be found in the garage more often than on the road. In 2018, Bios must have more than 75 defects repaired. Another nearly 60 in 2019. Often major repairs, such as broken wishbones or problems with drive shafts, can result in an unsafe situation on the road. Tesla is no longer answering What makes the taxi company really desperate is the service. Initially, Bios has a fixed point of contact, which is common for companies with a large fleet. From October 2018, communication will suddenly have to go via an anonymous 'front office', where the telephone is hardly answered. Since June 2019, Bios is no longer even allowed to make calls.

'Problems had to be filled in via an online form and then just hope that someone responds,' says Van der Veer. Despair also strikes at Taxi Jappie. "You have to wait six to eight weeks before a car can be repaired." A replacement car does not offer any solace for taxi companies. They must drive with a blue license plate and a board computer. In 2019, Tesla will also introduce the rule that Bios can only offer two vehicles at a time for repair. If there are more problem taxis, they will be stationary for weeks. But the drivers, who are permanently employed, continue to be paid. That is why Bios holds the car manufacturer liable for EUR 1.3 million loss of sales. And then there is the taxi that was under maintenance by Tesla when a fire broke out in the service center in September 2018.

Bios's car was next to the burning car. There would be no damage to the taxi, but the car was lost for no less than five months. Tesla remained silent, so in desperation, Bios called the police. Only when it rang a bell and Tesla did answer, the car suddenly reappeared. In this case, Bios is demanding another EUR 60,000 in damages. Bills to be paid In 2018, Tesla will repair the defects free of charge, but from 2019 onwards, bills for tens of thousands of euros will be sent. According to Tesla, the warranty, up to 80,000 kilometers, has now expired. EUR 150,000 in invoices is outstanding, because Bios refuses to pay. 'We simply pay for maintenance and normal repairs,' says CEO Van der Veer. "But why on earth should we have to pay for parts that are defective?"

The case has now escalated to such an extent that Tesla is refusing to do anything about the cars. Tofik Ohoudi reported last June at the counter in Southeast with a problem taxi, but was able to turn around again. Bios cannot go to another dealer to have the car made. All service is done through Tesla itself. Van der Veer: 'Tesla wants to make its customers very dependent. If we were in full operation now, we would have major problems. ' Previous lawsuit Earlier, four Schipholtaxi drivers went to court over rattling Teslas. The judge concluded last August that the wrong party had been sued. The four should not have sued Tesla, but Mercedes-Benz Financial Services (MBFS), which had resold the cars to the drivers. The judge also stated that the moment of delivery determines whether Tesla complies with the agreement. And when they got the cars, the drivers hadn't complained about defects Despite all the misery, Van der Veer has become convinced of electric driving. But whether Tesla will remain a supplier is very much the question. Bios Groep has meanwhile purchased 5 Audi E-trons. "The phone will be answered there." Tesla does not want to respond substantively to questions from the FD about the complaints of the taxi companies and the damage claims they submit.

Big yikes.

Ne vem če je tole že kdo videl, težave z Audi e-tron za 105000 EUR:



Tole pa meni ni videt lepo za VAG električne avtomobile...

LeQuack je 25. nov 2020 ob 17:20 izjavil:

Kaj pa ta Kia Niro a ima kdo kaj izkušenj? Cena je 30k skupaj s subencijo, dobiš pa zraven še polnilno postajo 11kW. Ali lahko tako polnilno inštaliraš če ima blok npr. rezervirana parkirna mesta?
PS: Ta cena je za osnovno verzijo 39kW z slabih 300km dosega. Večji 64kW motor z 450km pa je še 5k dražji.

Lahko inštaliraš, če imaš 3 fazni 16A priklop na tvojem parkirišču...

Polnilnica je vredna 500€, če se znajdeš pa slabih 300€, ob pogoju da imaš dovolj močan priklop. Aja, nimaš ga!

LeQuack je 25. nov 2020 ob 18:36 izjavil:

A potem v blokih ni šans za električne avte, vsaj dokler ne naredijo dosti več javnih hitrih električnih polnilnic?

Najbrž se strinjava, da ima večstanovanjski blok neko končno dovodno moč. Novi objekti so najbrž načrtovani z mislijo na kakšen električni avto ali dva, stari bloki pa ne. Morda bi lahko uporabil pametno polnilno postajo... v praksi pa: ne, ni šans.

Torej nabavi aptero ;) Unveil prihodnji petek, prednaročila za zgodnje investorje že možna. Cena je že med faq.

V resnici z eno fazo (3.6kW) pokriješ 90% polnenj, 7kW pa je čisto dovolj rezerve za veliko večino dnevne porabe.

Problem te polnilnice je, da je pred blokom in na voljo vsem, račun pa prileti le nate - ni snovana za deljeno rabo. Bi morali štromarji skup stopit pa ponudit deljene polnilnice za parkirišča pred blokom, pa da potem ni važno na kater parkplac se nalimaš.

V resnici ni nobenega večjega problema, ki bi to zaustavljal, razen da 1) ni povpraševanja, 2) ni ponudbe.

To da nam nekaj vsilijo in smo potem prisiljeni to tudi uporabljati, ne pomeni, da si to tudi želimo. Telefoni brez tipkovnic so že en tak primer

hruske je 26. nov 2020 ob 07:48 izjavil:

V resnici ni nobenega večjega problema, ki bi to zaustavljal, razen da 1) ni povpraševanja, 2) ni ponudbe.

3) ni soglasij ;>

J.McLane je 26. nov 2020 ob 09:53 izjavil:

Kdo ti brani, da kupiš BlackBerry?

Resno? Blackberry? Zakaj že? ... in odgovor, ker ima tipkovnico, seveda ni pravi odgovor ... in pa to tudi ni prava tema za to.

https://carsalesbase.com/europe-volkswa...

19,000 prodanih id3 v septembru in oktobru. V čem je problem? V dveh mesecih niso uspeli dostavit več avtov ali od novembra lani jih več naredit? Če se ne motim, je bilo 30,000 naročenih. Razgrabljenih.

Model 3 je bil prodan v čez 50,000 komadih v Evropi, pa še en rukar decembra bo, končna cifra verjetno okoli 65,000. Pa ni nihče take drame delal iz tega, nobenih starih naročil, itd.

@Utk A nisi v neki drugi temi pisal, da ID.3 in Model 3 nista primerljiva, ker sta v različnih segmentih. Zakaj jih sedaj primerjaš? Zakaj se obremenjuješ s številkam pri avtu, ki se je komaj začel prodajat? Sicer pa... septembra in oktobra so dobavljali avte 1st moverjem (tistim, ki so bili pripravljeni vzeti avto z beta softwareom). Šele teden ali dva nazaj naj bi Volkswagen izdal prvo kompletno verzijo softwarea. Tako da bodo z novembrom začeli dobavljat avte tudi tistim, ki niso hoteli nedokončanega avta. 30000 je bilo rezervacij... očitno se niso vsi odločili za beta produkt (jaz se recimo nisem).

Če je povpraševanje zakaj pa ne. Konc koncev cena je odvisna tudi od povpraševanja.

No ja... Tesla S in X se v Evropi že dolgo ne prodajata več dobro. Večina raje vzame Model 3, ki je novejši in cenejši. Tako da povpraševanja za te modele ravno ni. Je pa res, da tistih par, ki si vseeno kupi S ali X, lahko plača tudi več.

Ena sveza novica:

Audi Is Leaving Formula E to Compete in the 2022 Dakar Rally With an EV Instead

The electric Dakar competitor is said to use an electric powertrain running off of a high-voltage battery which itself can be charged on-the-fly thanks to an energy converter hooked up to an internally-combusted TFSI engine. So, not exactly pure electric but rather an electric drivetrain with a gas-powered range extender. At any rate, it'll apparently make Audi the first OEM to compete in Dakar with an "alternative" powertrain.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusi...

Je zanimivo. Sem pa par dni nazaj zvedel za tole posast: Koenigsegg Gemera @ Wikipedia

600 KM biturbo ICE (E85) in trije elektromotorji - skupna moc 1700 KM. Iscejo strokovnjake za tri leta, ce koga zanima

Hibridi so kar so, začasna rešitev.

Renault ponuja novega električnega Twinga za 11 jurjev, skupaj z 10 tisoč km polnjenja in novimi gumami gratis, kar je cca enaka cena po subvenciji kot za bencinski model, s tem da se lahko voziš za 1,3 EUR na 100 km :)

https://www.facebook.com/13181953021718...