Forum » Pomoč in nasveti » Disk Seagate st31000340as 1TB barracuda
Disk Seagate st31000340as 1TB barracuda
elfin ::
Na internetu sem zasledil, da ima Seagatova serija Baracuda 7200.11 neke probleme s firmware SD15.
Forum Seagate
Ti diski, proizvedeni na Tajskem s firmware SD15 naj bi po nekem času normalne uporabe odpovedali. Bios diska več ne zazna.
Napaka naj bi bila v firmware SD15. Obstajal naj bi novejši firmware SD1A, ki menda nima te napake.
Ali ve kdo kaj več o tem? Ima kdo tak disk in dela že več kot 3 mesece brez problemov / je nehal delat? Je že kdo flashal nov firmware na disk?
Namreč sem nabavil ta disk in ne upam zdaj kakih važnih podatkov gor dat.
Forum Seagate
Ti diski, proizvedeni na Tajskem s firmware SD15 naj bi po nekem času normalne uporabe odpovedali. Bios diska več ne zazna.
Napaka naj bi bila v firmware SD15. Obstajal naj bi novejši firmware SD1A, ki menda nima te napake.
Ali ve kdo kaj več o tem? Ima kdo tak disk in dela že več kot 3 mesece brez problemov / je nehal delat? Je že kdo flashal nov firmware na disk?
Namreč sem nabavil ta disk in ne upam zdaj kakih važnih podatkov gor dat.
Han ::
Za ta disk (ST31000340AS) ni novejšega firmwara, SD15 je zadnji. V uporabi ga imam dober mesec in pol. Zaenkrat dela brezhibno, njegova temperatura pa ne preseže 36°C.
Prej sem imel v slabo hlajenem ohišju dva 500 GB diska (ST3500320AS) z istim firmwarom (SD15), ki sta se grela nad 50°. Oba sta stara več kot eno leto in še vedno delujeta brezhibno.
P.S. Pomembne podatke je vedno dobro imeti shranjene vsaj dvakrat...
Prej sem imel v slabo hlajenem ohišju dva 500 GB diska (ST3500320AS) z istim firmwarom (SD15), ki sta se grela nad 50°. Oba sta stara več kot eno leto in še vedno delujeta brezhibno.
P.S. Pomembne podatke je vedno dobro imeti shranjene vsaj dvakrat...
elfin ::
Ne vem, zakaj pol taka panika na forumu od Seagata.
Sem Linux inštaliral na ta disk in ga bom malo preizkušal. Če preživi 3 mesece, ga bom pa uporabljal za podatke.
Sem Linux inštaliral na ta disk in ga bom malo preizkušal. Če preživi 3 mesece, ga bom pa uporabljal za podatke.
ender ::
Lani sem kupil tri te diske, eden je odletel po slabem mesecu. Za zamenjavo sem dobil refurbished disk, ki mi zdaj občasno javi Reading Error (diski so na Areca RAID krmilniku).
There are only two hard things in Computer Science:
cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors.
cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors.
Sade ::
ud men je po mogoc celo sam enomesecni uporabi odpovedu ta disk, dobu novga, upam , da ne crkne se ta......
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Sade ()
Han ::
Hmm, zadeva je očitno resna. Bo treba hitro skopirat podatke na varno...
Če slučajno že imate mrtev disk, brez panike! Vse podatke lahko dobite nazaj. Tile Avstralci se hvalijo, da lahko rešijo podatke z mrtvih Barracud. Uporabljajo orodja od Salvation Data in Ace Labs.
http://www.payam.com.au/
http://www.salvationdata.com/
http://www.acelab.ru/products/pc-en/
Če slučajno že imate mrtev disk, brez panike! Vse podatke lahko dobite nazaj. Tile Avstralci se hvalijo, da lahko rešijo podatke z mrtvih Barracud. Uporabljajo orodja od Salvation Data in Ace Labs.
http://www.payam.com.au/
http://www.salvationdata.com/
http://www.acelab.ru/products/pc-en/
Han ::
Več informacij o tem, ZAKAJ odpovedujejo Seagate diski.
Na isti strani so opisane slabosti tudi za diske drugih proizvajalcev!
Na isti strani so opisane slabosti tudi za diske drugih proizvajalcev!
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Han ()
elfin ::
Seagate je nekaj objavil o tem problemu.
Firmware Recommendations for Seagate Drives
Firmware Recommendations for Seagate Drives
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: elfin ()
krho ::
Sem escaliral zadevo na support. PRav tako, sem jih pobaral, kako naj pridem do podatkov na tistih diskih, ki so v RAIDu, ker nobeno od njihovih orodij ne pride do diskov.
si.Mail odprto-kodni odjemalec elektronske pošte. - http://www.simail.si
Uredite si svojo zbirko filmov, serij in iger - http://xcollect.sf.net
Uredite si svojo zbirko filmov, serij in iger - http://xcollect.sf.net
ender ::
Pri meni RAID krmilnik izpiše te podatke.
There are only two hard things in Computer Science:
cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors.
cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors.
elfin ::
Menda novega firmwara sploh še ni. Bi naj bil na voljo v nekaj dneh. Escaliral sem že v petek, zdaj pa čakam odgovor.
Disk sem pa do nadaljnega odklopil, da mi ne crkne slučajno zdaj ko čakamo na firmware.
Disk sem pa do nadaljnega odklopil, da mi ne crkne slučajno zdaj ko čakamo na firmware.
ender ::
Novi firmware za 1TB diske je že zunaj, vendar jim je pod navalom očitno počepnil strežnik (meni je firmware uspelo prenesti, vendar še nisem doma, da bi ga lahko namestil na svoje diske).
http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/s...
http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/s...
There are only two hard things in Computer Science:
cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors.
cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors.
Han ::
Seagate offers fix, free data recovery for bricked Barracudas
Novi firmware je načeloma na voljo za naslednje diske:
Barracuda 7200.11
ST31000340AS
ST3750330AS
ST3640330AS
ST3500320AS
ST31500341AS
ST31000333AS
ST3640323AS
ST3640623AS
ST3320613AS
ST3320813AS
ST3160813AS
Barracuda ES.2 SATA
ST31000340NS
ST3750330NS
ST3500320NS
ST3250310NS
DiamondMax 22
STM31000340AS
STM3750330AS
STM3500320AS
STM31000334AS
STM3320614AS
STM3160813AS
Novi firmware je načeloma na voljo za naslednje diske:
Barracuda 7200.11
ST31000340AS
ST3750330AS
ST3640330AS
ST3500320AS
ST31500341AS
ST31000333AS
ST3640323AS
ST3640623AS
ST3320613AS
ST3320813AS
ST3160813AS
Barracuda ES.2 SATA
ST31000340NS
ST3750330NS
ST3500320NS
ST3250310NS
DiamondMax 22
STM31000340AS
STM3750330AS
STM3500320AS
STM31000334AS
STM3320614AS
STM3160813AS
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Han ()
1024 ::
Onim popravlačem diskov sem pisal naj mi razkrijejo kateri diski se statistično najmanj kvarijo. Če kdo ima ta podatek, so verjetno oni.
No...
Jst mam 2 WDja pa enga Hitachija v tem pcju
Za notebook se mi sanja ne, ampak glede na to kaj vse je prestal, ne bi smel bit krize.
No...
Seagate has high firmware rate. WD - unstable heads. Hitachi - degrading media.
I personally prefer Samsung.
Jst mam 2 WDja pa enga Hitachija v tem pcju
Za notebook se mi sanja ne, ampak glede na to kaj vse je prestal, ne bi smel bit krize.
Fish knows everything.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenilo: 1024 ()
Han ::
Statistično se najmanj kvarijo tisti, ki jih najmanj prodajo. In Samsung je dejansko v manjšini po obsegu prodaje. Sicer pa njegovi F1 diski tudi veselo crkujejo...
1024 ::
Statistično se najmanj kvarijo tisti, ki jih najmanj prodajo. In Samsung je dejansko v manjšini po obsegu prodaje.
A misliš da se oni tega ne zavedajo?
Kmon.
Fish knows everything.
Han ::
Firmware imam, samo ne vem, če bi flešnil... Seagate je namreč FW umaknil in napisal naslednje:
This file has been temporarily taken offline as of Jan 19, 2008 8PM CST for validation.
In še prvi odzivi na firmware:
Doesn't work
Yes, Seagate put up a web page, (including a serial checker that doesn't work and was removed), but guess what - it doesn't work! The web page tells you to install firmware SD1A, that was a fix from weeks back for the 1.5 TB drives stuttering. It doesn't fix the bricking/boot-of-death issue with the 7200.11 series as a whole. In fact, if you try to install it, the flasher will crash and not recognize your drive. This is probably a good thing, as those that have used an older Seagate flasher have just bricked their drives with this firmware. So what's the point of telling people to install the wrong firmware, that doesn't fix the issue, and doesn't even install in the first place? It's the usual Seagate incompetence. Why should anyone pay money to get a faulty product, and then "enjoy" this poor level of support? No one should, we should all spend our money elsewhere.
posted by : JD, 19 January 2009
Poslano na The Inquirer (link je nekje zgoraj).
This file has been temporarily taken offline as of Jan 19, 2008 8PM CST for validation.
In še prvi odzivi na firmware:
Doesn't work
Yes, Seagate put up a web page, (including a serial checker that doesn't work and was removed), but guess what - it doesn't work! The web page tells you to install firmware SD1A, that was a fix from weeks back for the 1.5 TB drives stuttering. It doesn't fix the bricking/boot-of-death issue with the 7200.11 series as a whole. In fact, if you try to install it, the flasher will crash and not recognize your drive. This is probably a good thing, as those that have used an older Seagate flasher have just bricked their drives with this firmware. So what's the point of telling people to install the wrong firmware, that doesn't fix the issue, and doesn't even install in the first place? It's the usual Seagate incompetence. Why should anyone pay money to get a faulty product, and then "enjoy" this poor level of support? No one should, we should all spend our money elsewhere.
posted by : JD, 19 January 2009
Poslano na The Inquirer (link je nekje zgoraj).
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Han ()
elfin ::
Jaz sem si že tudi pripravil CD s firmwareom, pa ga tudi ne upam flešat.
Amerikanci so imeli včeraj praznik, bomo danes videli, če se bo kaj Seagate zmigal.
Tudi razmišljam, da bi si WD Green kupil.
Amerikanci so imeli včeraj praznik, bomo danes videli, če se bo kaj Seagate zmigal.
Tudi razmišljam, da bi si WD Green kupil.
Han ::
1 TB diske firmware naj ne bi onesposobil. Sicer je pa vedno dobro počakat vsaj kakšen teden, da testni zajčki opravijo svoje delo. 
Han ::
elfin ::
Torej dajmo Seagatu nekaj časa, da pridejo k sebi. Pa bomo pol zapisali novi firmware, ko bo zaresen.
elfin ::
Mimogrede še to, pri zapisovanju firmwarea naj bo priklopljen samo disk ki ga flešaš in CD/DVD s katerega bootaš.
S.M.A.R.T. je ampak zgleda, da je buffer izklopljen ...
namesto 32 mega piše n/a
HD Tune: ST31000340AS Information
Firmware version : SD1A
Serial number : 9QJ2XXXX
Capacity : 931.5 GB (~1000.2 GB)
Buffer size : n/a
Standard : ATA/ATAPI-0 - SATA II
Supported mode : UDMA Mode 6 (Ultra ATA/133)
Current mode : UDMA Mode 6 (Ultra ATA/133)
S.M.A.R.T : yes
48-bit Address : yes
Read Look-Ahead : yes
Write Cache : yes
Host Protected Area : yes
Device Configuration Overlay : yes
Automatic Acoustic Management: no
Power Management : yes
Advanced Power Management : no
Power-up in Standby : no
Security Mode : yes
Firmware Upgradable : yes
HD Tune: ST31000340AS Health
ID Current Worst ThresholdData Status
(01) Raw Read Error Rate 111 100 6 71548638 Ok
(03) Spin Up Time 91 91 0 0 Ok
(04) Start/Stop Count 100 100 20 34 Ok
(05) Reallocated Sector Count 100 100 36 0 Ok
(07) Seek Error Rate 60 60 30 1282025 Ok
(09) Power On Hours Count 100 100 0 89 Ok
(0A) Spin Retry Count 100 100 97 1 Ok
(0C) Power Cycle Count 100 100 20 27 Ok
(B8) (unknown attribute) 100 100 99 0 Ok
(BB) (unknown attribute) 100 100 0 0 Ok
(BC) (unknown attribute) 100 98 0 13 Ok
(BD) (unknown attribute) 100 100 0 0 Ok
(BE) Airflow Temperature 68 59 45 538116128 Ok
(C2) Temperature 32 41 0 32 Ok
(C3) Hardware ECC Recovered 27 13 0 71548638 Ok
(C5) Current Pending Sector 100 100 0 0 Ok
(C6) Offline Uncorrectable 100 100 0 0 Ok
(C7) Ultra DMA CRC Error Count 200 200 0 0 Ok
Power On Time : 89
Health Status : Ok
HD Tune: ST31000340AS Benchmark
Transfer Rate Minimum : 51.0 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Maximum : 96.6 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Average : 78.7 MB/sec
Access Time : 12.8 ms
Burst Rate : 55.9 MB/sec
CPU Usage : 8.0%
S.M.A.R.T. je ampak zgleda, da je buffer izklopljen ...
namesto 32 mega piše n/a
HD Tune: ST31000340AS Information
Firmware version : SD1A
Serial number : 9QJ2XXXX
Capacity : 931.5 GB (~1000.2 GB)
Buffer size : n/a
Standard : ATA/ATAPI-0 - SATA II
Supported mode : UDMA Mode 6 (Ultra ATA/133)
Current mode : UDMA Mode 6 (Ultra ATA/133)
S.M.A.R.T : yes
48-bit Address : yes
Read Look-Ahead : yes
Write Cache : yes
Host Protected Area : yes
Device Configuration Overlay : yes
Automatic Acoustic Management: no
Power Management : yes
Advanced Power Management : no
Power-up in Standby : no
Security Mode : yes
Firmware Upgradable : yes
HD Tune: ST31000340AS Health
ID Current Worst ThresholdData Status
(01) Raw Read Error Rate 111 100 6 71548638 Ok
(03) Spin Up Time 91 91 0 0 Ok
(04) Start/Stop Count 100 100 20 34 Ok
(05) Reallocated Sector Count 100 100 36 0 Ok
(07) Seek Error Rate 60 60 30 1282025 Ok
(09) Power On Hours Count 100 100 0 89 Ok
(0A) Spin Retry Count 100 100 97 1 Ok
(0C) Power Cycle Count 100 100 20 27 Ok
(B8) (unknown attribute) 100 100 99 0 Ok
(BB) (unknown attribute) 100 100 0 0 Ok
(BC) (unknown attribute) 100 98 0 13 Ok
(BD) (unknown attribute) 100 100 0 0 Ok
(BE) Airflow Temperature 68 59 45 538116128 Ok
(C2) Temperature 32 41 0 32 Ok
(C3) Hardware ECC Recovered 27 13 0 71548638 Ok
(C5) Current Pending Sector 100 100 0 0 Ok
(C6) Offline Uncorrectable 100 100 0 0 Ok
(C7) Ultra DMA CRC Error Count 200 200 0 0 Ok
Power On Time : 89
Health Status : Ok
HD Tune: ST31000340AS Benchmark
Transfer Rate Minimum : 51.0 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Maximum : 96.6 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Average : 78.7 MB/sec
Access Time : 12.8 ms
Burst Rate : 55.9 MB/sec
CPU Usage : 8.0%
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: elfin ()
Han ::
Buffer (cache) ni izklopljen, le program ga ne vidi. Hvala za "SMART report" - se vidi, da imaš še 'frišen' disk. 
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Han ()
b_bobika ::
in tole so podatki po flešanju..
HD Tune Pro: ST31000340AS Health
ID Current Worst ThresholdData Status
(01) Raw Read Error Rate 113 99 6 57699414 Ok
(03) Spin Up Time 92 84 0 0 Ok
(04) Start/Stop Count 98 98 20 2178 Ok
(05) Reallocated Sector Count 100 100 36 0 Ok
(07) Seek Error Rate 71 60 30 13105333 Ok
(09) Power On Hours Count 97 97 0 3351 Ok
(0A) Spin Retry Count 100 99 97 354 Ok
(0C) Power Cycle Count 100 37 20 371 Ok
(B8) (unknown attribute) 100 100 99 0 Ok
(BB) (unknown attribute) 100 100 0 0 Ok
(BC) (unknown attribute) 100 100 0 0 Ok
(BD) (unknown attribute) 100 100 0 0 Ok
(BE) Airflow Temperature 62 53 45 655753254 Ok
(C2) Temperature 38 47 0 38 Ok
(C3) Hardware ECC Recovered 55 24 0 57699414 Ok
(C5) Current Pending Sector 100 100 0 0 Ok
(C6) Offline Uncorrectable 100 100 0 0 Ok
(C7) Ultra DMA CRC Error Count 200 200 0 0 Ok
Power On Time : 3351
Health Status : Ok
HD Tune Pro: ST31000340AS Benchmark
Read transfer rate
Transfer Rate Minimum : 51.9 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Maximum : 111.2 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Average : 88.0 MB/sec
Access Time : 12.5 ms
Burst Rate : 163.4 MB/sec
CPU Usage : 4.0%
disk uporabljam samo za shranjevanje slik in videa (video obdelavo) in po programih sem zasledil te podatke
najbolje me moti podatek:
Health . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : ########------------ 40 % (Acceptable)
disk je bil kupljen 28.6.2008..
imam še 2 druga starejša diska in sta oba diska 100 % (Excellent)
hdd sem dal v drug pc in program pokaže isto kot tukaj...
a naj reklamiram HDD ker vidim da so problemi z to serijo HDD-ja
Hard Disk Summary
-------------------
Hard Disk Number . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : 2
Interface . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : S-ATA II
Disk Controller . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel® ICH9 Family 2 port Serial ATA Storage Controller 1 - 2921 (ATA)
Disk Location . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : Channel 1, Target 0, Lun 0, Device: 0
Hard Disk Model ID . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : ST31000340AS
Hard Disk Revision . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : SD1A
Hard Disk Serial Number . . . . . . . . . . . . : 9QJ0HS6V
Hard Disk Total Size . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : 953867 MB
Power State . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : Active
Current Temperature . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : 39 °C
Maximum Temperature (ever Measured) . . . . . . : 43 °C, 7.2.2009 20:26:00
Minimum Temperature (ever Measured) . . . . . . : 28 °C, 9.2.2009 18:34:04
Power On Time . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : 139 days, 15 hours
Estimated Remaining Lifetime . . . . . . . . . . : 269 days
Health . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : ########------------ 40 % (Acceptable)
Performance . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : #################### 100 % (Excellent)
HD Tune Pro: ST31000340AS Health
ID Current Worst ThresholdData Status
(01) Raw Read Error Rate 113 99 6 57699414 Ok
(03) Spin Up Time 92 84 0 0 Ok
(04) Start/Stop Count 98 98 20 2178 Ok
(05) Reallocated Sector Count 100 100 36 0 Ok
(07) Seek Error Rate 71 60 30 13105333 Ok
(09) Power On Hours Count 97 97 0 3351 Ok
(0A) Spin Retry Count 100 99 97 354 Ok
(0C) Power Cycle Count 100 37 20 371 Ok
(B8) (unknown attribute) 100 100 99 0 Ok
(BB) (unknown attribute) 100 100 0 0 Ok
(BC) (unknown attribute) 100 100 0 0 Ok
(BD) (unknown attribute) 100 100 0 0 Ok
(BE) Airflow Temperature 62 53 45 655753254 Ok
(C2) Temperature 38 47 0 38 Ok
(C3) Hardware ECC Recovered 55 24 0 57699414 Ok
(C5) Current Pending Sector 100 100 0 0 Ok
(C6) Offline Uncorrectable 100 100 0 0 Ok
(C7) Ultra DMA CRC Error Count 200 200 0 0 Ok
Power On Time : 3351
Health Status : Ok
HD Tune Pro: ST31000340AS Benchmark
Read transfer rate
Transfer Rate Minimum : 51.9 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Maximum : 111.2 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Average : 88.0 MB/sec
Access Time : 12.5 ms
Burst Rate : 163.4 MB/sec
CPU Usage : 4.0%
disk uporabljam samo za shranjevanje slik in videa (video obdelavo) in po programih sem zasledil te podatke
najbolje me moti podatek:
Health . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : ########------------ 40 % (Acceptable)
disk je bil kupljen 28.6.2008..
imam še 2 druga starejša diska in sta oba diska 100 % (Excellent)
hdd sem dal v drug pc in program pokaže isto kot tukaj...
a naj reklamiram HDD ker vidim da so problemi z to serijo HDD-ja
Hard Disk Summary
-------------------
Hard Disk Number . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : 2
Interface . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : S-ATA II
Disk Controller . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel® ICH9 Family 2 port Serial ATA Storage Controller 1 - 2921 (ATA)
Disk Location . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : Channel 1, Target 0, Lun 0, Device: 0
Hard Disk Model ID . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : ST31000340AS
Hard Disk Revision . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : SD1A
Hard Disk Serial Number . . . . . . . . . . . . : 9QJ0HS6V
Hard Disk Total Size . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : 953867 MB
Power State . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : Active
Current Temperature . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : 39 °C
Maximum Temperature (ever Measured) . . . . . . : 43 °C, 7.2.2009 20:26:00
Minimum Temperature (ever Measured) . . . . . . : 28 °C, 9.2.2009 18:34:04
Power On Time . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : 139 days, 15 hours
Estimated Remaining Lifetime . . . . . . . . . . : 269 days
Health . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : ########------------ 40 % (Acceptable)
Performance . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : #################### 100 % (Excellent)
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: b_bobika ()
jonlion ::
HI.
Zanima me če je že kdo naložu nov firmwar in če deluje. Men je crknu disk Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS,bios ga ne zazna, bi pa poskusu še z novim firewarom. Kako se to fleša na disk?
Zanima me če je že kdo naložu nov firmwar in če deluje. Men je crknu disk Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS,bios ga ne zazna, bi pa poskusu še z novim firewarom. Kako se to fleša na disk?
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: jonlion ()
KTr1sk ::
No kako imate še zdaj izkušnje z temi diski, spet imam primer da je po nekaj dneh crknil Barracuda 1Tb
i5-14500k,32gb ddr5,6700xt,nvme2x,hdd4x, Dell G3223Q
Vredno ogleda ...
| Tema | Ogledi | Zadnje sporočilo | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Tema | Ogledi | Zadnje sporočilo | |
| » | Počasen SSD Crucial MX100 256GBOddelek: Pomoč in nasveti | 1197 (927) | gali |
| » | Crknil diskOddelek: Strojna oprema | 2199 (1403) | Hrenowsky |
| » | Seagate 1,5TB Da ali Ne?Oddelek: Kaj kupiti | 2665 (2167) | Blazod |
| » | CviljenjeOddelek: Pomoč in nasveti | 1841 (1490) | Shatzy |
| » | Pomoč pri nakupu računalnika in ostale periferijeOddelek: Kaj kupiti | 3591 (3340) | chrush |