Zakaj so električni avtomobili prava stvar

Je pa vprasanje koliko je to se smiselno

Ne morem se znebiti občutka, da se bodo taki prikazovalniki izpridili v prikazovalnike reklam, s katerimi bodo služili proizvajalci.

Poglejte kaj je nekdo napisal o našem saviorju in vizonarju Elonu:

Elon Musk?

Runs the only major auto-maker in America that is 100% non-union, and threatens workers if they try to unionize
Treats workers terribly, with substandard pay, benefits, and work conditions for this industry--then demands they work extremely long hours.

Gets in bed close with government so he can use government subsidies and contracts to fund every single one of his business, but he calls himself a 'libertarian.'

Earned his initial money in the "Paypal Mafia," a group of men who are pretty much universally bad people, and who almost certainly collude to push out competing companies and use insider information to trade and break banking and securities laws daily, but who are so wealthy nobody will ever prosecute them.

Runs a legal, but dishonest and shady secondary market derivatives scheme at solar city, wherein installers do bad installations (like literally on the north side of roofs above the tropic of cancer) and use bottom-tier Chinese panels and inverters known to break, but they don't care, because the second they get the homeowner to sign on the bottom line, they chop up and sell the risk off as derivatives in the form of 'solar bonds' to suckers online.
Tesla routinely sells cars without complying with state laws and without a car dealers' license. Worse still, they offer incentives to people who sell cars for them, even though they don't legally pay them like car salesmen (they just get $1,000), which many states require them to do. They just birddog it. Musk's response is that "The laws are absurd," but instead of doing the right thing and making the argument and supporting bills to change them, he just breaks them and doesn't give a fuck, because he's a billionaire, and unlike you or I, who would go to jail for breaking these laws, Musk is a billionaire and he knows he's above the law.

Tesla's autopilot was programmed to break traffic laws and Musk even tweeted about how cool that was.

The battery factory in Nevada is under audit right now. He put it in Nevada in the first place after securing over a billion dollars from the state after making states compete for it, AND insisting that if California competed it waive its environmental laws so he could pollute all he wanted. THEN he took the Nevada money, but he's behind schedule in terms of building, output, jobs, and expectations, and so starting just last month, the state is looking into what he did with the money and how he got all of it and spent it if he wasn't completing his end of the contract. Stay tuned for more on that.

Consumer groups like Watchdog.org detail a litany of deceptive sales practices, consumer complaints, and horror stories from SolarCity. Seriously, I know this industry, and they are the worst. They also routinely use unlicensed, unregistered, uncertified contractors instead of master electricians and NABCEP certified installers, which are required in many states, but SolarCity just doesn't give a fuck and uses fly-by-night labor for near minimum-wage with no credentials or training anyways. Look it up.

Solarcity also installs panels that US Prisoners are forced to make for Elon Musk's profit. Seriously. All the tax credits and government subsidies and contracts aren't enough for this greedy billionaire. He literally uses prison slave labor to build his parts for free or near-free. Worse still? Solarcity counted the prison labor at Sheridan Federal Prison as "jobs created" to meet the requirements to receive grants under Obama's stimulus program. Maybe that whole thing was technically legal. But it's morally disgusting and repugnant.

SpaceX is facing no fewer than 5 class action lawsuits from former employees who claim they were abused, denied pay, forced to work unpaid overtime even though they were hourly employees, forced people to clock out, then forced them to stay at work for hours afterwards, refused to provide lunch breaks or 10 minute breaks in compliance with state law, denied severance packages that were due by contract, laid workers off without following the DOL WARN Act or providing them any notification, as required by law, etc. etc.

I mean, there's a lot if you go looking for it...

Če je pa res ali pa ne, pa naj vsakdo presodi sam...

Prejsnji teden sem s svojim 13 let starim ICE avtomobilom (razreda golf) potoval cirka 800 km.
Nazaj neprekinjeno, v prvo sem prespal na polovici.

Ugotovitve:
Ce sem v avtu sam, sem potencialno sposoben prevoziti razdaljo z enim 10 min postankom (tankanje).
Ne pijes veliko, kaksna energetska tablica, nabijes muziko in samo gas...

Praksa?
Nimam tempomata -> ne mores razgibati noge na stopalki
sedezi -> solidno, a dalec od idealnega
sopotniki -> ustavil se bos vsaj na 3h, ce ne drugega zaradi WCja.
vinjete -> kupis jih pred mejo, po moznosti ko imas poln tank
prometni zamaski -> 4x (izgubljene 2h)
hrana -> fast food (30 min)
bencin -> na avtocesti drag kot zafran (v Avstriji so me opalili cez 1,5e)

Zastoj te utrudi (speljevanje) - tu so elektricni avtomobili superiorni.
Skepticen sem do trditev, da mora biti supercharger izjemno hiter.
30 min je dovolj (ker jih vkljucis v prehranjevanje), vse kar je hitreje je samo bonus.
Tezek in pomoje pomembnejsi problem je predvidljivost prostega prikljucka.
Zdi se, da ima Tesla veliko prednost, ker ima svojo mrezo polnilnic.
Nekako se nagibam, da je 400 - 500km dosega dovolj za elektricni avtomobil kot prvi avto.
Pod pogojem, da ti software pomaga najti prosti prikljucek in vizualizirati ne(gotovost).
Za drugi avto je zame dovolj ze 300km.
Najtezje resljivi problem je verjetno avgustovska poletna migracija do sredozemskega
morja.

Nikec3 je 22. apr 2017 ob 11:23 izjavil:

brezposelnost v ZDA je rekordno nizka, če komu kaj ne paše, naj menja službo.

Offtopic sicer, ampak nikakor ni rekordno nizka. Je pa kar nizka trenutno.

@Raptor F16
Drzi. Sem ga imel v sposojenem Ford Focusu v ZDA (avto letnik 2016) in je res super za zastoje. Se vedno pa prestavlja, elektricen pogon je boljsi. Je pa tudi ICE avtomatik DOVOLJ dober oz. neprimerno boljsi kot manual. Tudi ni poceni.

VaeVictis je 22. apr 2017 ob 10:35 izjavil:

Poglejte kaj je nekdo napisal o našem saviorju in vizonarju Elonu:

Elon Musk?

Runs the only major auto-maker in America that is 100% non-union, and threatens workers if they try to unionize
Treats workers terribly, with substandard pay, benefits, and work conditions for this industry--then demands they work extremely long hours.

Gets in bed close with government so he can use government subsidies and contracts to fund every single one of his business, but he calls himself a 'libertarian.'

Earned his initial money in the "Paypal Mafia," a group of men who are pretty much universally bad people, and who almost certainly collude to push out competing companies and use insider information to trade and break banking and securities laws daily, but who are so wealthy nobody will ever prosecute them.

Runs a legal, but dishonest and shady secondary market derivatives scheme at solar city, wherein installers do bad installations (like literally on the north side of roofs above the tropic of cancer) and use bottom-tier Chinese panels and inverters known to break, but they don't care, because the second they get the homeowner to sign on the bottom line, they chop up and sell the risk off as derivatives in the form of 'solar bonds' to suckers online.
Tesla routinely sells cars without complying with state laws and without a car dealers' license. Worse still, they offer incentives to people who sell cars for them, even though they don't legally pay them like car salesmen (they just get $1,000), which many states require them to do. They just birddog it. Musk's response is that "The laws are absurd," but instead of doing the right thing and making the argument and supporting bills to change them, he just breaks them and doesn't give a fuck, because he's a billionaire, and unlike you or I, who would go to jail for breaking these laws, Musk is a billionaire and he knows he's above the law.

Tesla's autopilot was programmed to break traffic laws and Musk even tweeted about how cool that was.

The battery factory in Nevada is under audit right now. He put it in Nevada in the first place after securing over a billion dollars from the state after making states compete for it, AND insisting that if California competed it waive its environmental laws so he could pollute all he wanted. THEN he took the Nevada money, but he's behind schedule in terms of building, output, jobs, and expectations, and so starting just last month, the state is looking into what he did with the money and how he got all of it and spent it if he wasn't completing his end of the contract. Stay tuned for more on that.

Consumer groups like Watchdog.org detail a litany of deceptive sales practices, consumer complaints, and horror stories from SolarCity. Seriously, I know this industry, and they are the worst. They also routinely use unlicensed, unregistered, uncertified contractors instead of master electricians and NABCEP certified installers, which are required in many states, but SolarCity just doesn't give a fuck and uses fly-by-night labor for near minimum-wage with no credentials or training anyways. Look it up.

Solarcity also installs panels that US Prisoners are forced to make for Elon Musk's profit. Seriously. All the tax credits and government subsidies and contracts aren't enough for this greedy billionaire. He literally uses prison slave labor to build his parts for free or near-free. Worse still? Solarcity counted the prison labor at Sheridan Federal Prison as "jobs created" to meet the requirements to receive grants under Obama's stimulus program. Maybe that whole thing was technically legal. But it's morally disgusting and repugnant.

SpaceX is facing no fewer than 5 class action lawsuits from former employees who claim they were abused, denied pay, forced to work unpaid overtime even though they were hourly employees, forced people to clock out, then forced them to stay at work for hours afterwards, refused to provide lunch breaks or 10 minute breaks in compliance with state law, denied severance packages that were due by contract, laid workers off without following the DOL WARN Act or providing them any notification, as required by law, etc. etc.

I mean, there's a lot if you go looking for it...

Če je pa res ali pa ne, pa naj vsakdo presodi sam...

You don't understand how the world works.

If you're looking for saints, stop looking, there aren't any.
We are all human and we all have some unpleasant things.

Kar je pomembno, da kot society koristimo najboljše od posameznika and keep in check najslabše od ta istega. Svet ne bi bil lepši, če bi muska kar kot diktatorja določili. He has some personal issues.

Ljudje, danes nimajo več potrpljenja in razumevanja za nič. Tistega wisdom-a with age, ni več, ker je cela komunikacijska sfera preplavljena s -tističnimi osebki.
Seriously, imaš ljudi, ki get their panties in a twist zaradi detajlov kot so linije vrat.
True, tud sam imam kdaj take, ampak i have enough wisdom to keep myself in check.

Nikec3 je 22. apr 2017 ob 11:23 izjavil:

Sicer pa... brezposelnost v ZDA je rekordno nizka, če komu kaj ne paše, naj menja službo.

Ja, lahko gre recimo kelnarit, kjer mu bo delodajalec napitnine odšteval od minimalne plače.

frudi je 22. apr 2017 ob 14:47 izjavil:

Nikec3 je 22. apr 2017 ob 11:23 izjavil:

Sicer pa... brezposelnost v ZDA je rekordno nizka, če komu kaj ne paše, naj menja službo.

To je predvsem zato, ker med uradno brezposelne ne štejejo tistih, ki se več ne trudijo iskati dela, delež slednjih pa vztrajno narašča od nekje leta 2008 naprej in je najvišji v zadnjih 40 letih.
Drug faktor za 'nižjo' brezposelnost je pa naraščajoč delež zaposlitev za polovični delovni čas na račun manj zaposlitev za polni delovni čas. Odpustiš enega inženirja s $150k plače in zaposliš dve part-time čistilki za $20k vsako in hej, ustvaril si delovna mesta, ekonomiji gre super!

Mi imamo nek biznis v CA, okolica San Francisa, in iscemo nizkokvalificirano delovno silo za neko zelo lahko fizicno delo v skladiscu. Delavce v CA je danes prakticno nemogoce najti - vsak ki hoce delat ze dela. Urne postavke so absurdne. Tudi ko dobis delavce, jim nekdo hitro ponudi vec (recimo industrija marijuane placuje dobro), in jih naslednji dan vec ni.

Slisal sem, da je v vecini ZDA podobna zgodba.

@LuiIII
1) tega nihce ne trdi
2) ne verjamem ti, da taksno razdaljo POVPRECNO prevozis v 8h (razen, ce se morda vozis ponoci...) - zastoji, popravilo cest, nesrece
3) Z EV bi rabil (ce ni zastojev) 8h. 8/7 = 1,14...

Tip je tako poln samega sebe, da ga niti dvakratna ločitev od iste ženske ni izučila pomembne lekcije... don't stick your dick in crazy

Gremo pobirat stave, kateri od njiju bo končal na urgenci in kateri v priporu, ko se tole razmerje eksplozivno konča?

Kvečjemu je old school narcisist, s pridihom psihopatije. Ampak se mu zgleda ne sanja, da je tale njegova nova dečva po vsej verjetnosti še bolj zmešana od njega.

Je vse ok, dokler ne bo spet prstana gor rinil. Upajmo, da se kaj naučil od prejšnih polomov.

Enter Okapi in 3,2,1 ... aja, BW je tole, Okapi bo ostal tiho. ST inteligenza pač ...

Bol svet-spreminjajoče je tole:

"We started 2017 with over 5,000 Superchargers globally and by the end of this year, Tesla will double that number to total more than 10,000 Superchargers and 15,000 Destination Charging connectors around the world. In North America, we'll increase the number of Superchargers by 150 percent, and in California alone we'll add more than 1,000 Superchargers. We're moving full speed on site selection and many sites will soon enter construction to open in advance of the summer travel season."

"Toward that goal, Tesla will build larger sites along our busiest travel routes that will accommodate several dozen Teslas Supercharging simultaneously. In addition, many sites will be built further off the highway to allow local Tesla drivers to charge quickly when needed, with the goal of making charging ubiquitous in urban centers."

V prihodnjih letih bo podoben push dobil preostali del sveta. Te stvari seveda stanejo, tako da nikec neč bat, še vedno boš lahko jamral kako tesla dela samo izgubo.



Na drugem spektru zgodbe je audi začel sprejemat vplačila za svoj električni SUV, ki pride čez par let.

Norwegians interested in the vehicle can right now place a 20,000 kroner (~$2,500) deposit to reserve the vehicle without even knowing the actual price

Zadeva naj bi mela 95kWh baterijo in XYZ kW polnjenje...
Kdor mora vprašat kolk bo dosega ... se naj prej zbudi.

BigWhale je 24. apr 2017 ob 18:59 izjavil:

vostok_1 je 24. apr 2017 ob 17:33 izjavil:

Eh, musk je old school man. Še zadnja generacija, ki so naredili kaj. Moderni feminizirani moški ne počnejo več nič pametnega, razn appov in podobnih civilizacijsko marginalno pomembnih reči.

Kaj pa ti pocnes?

Moderni 'feminizirani' moski so zaceli Information Age, brez teh Musk sedaj ne bi imel avta, ki zna (skoraj) sam voziti.

khm...bullshit...khm

Skoraj vse generacije rojene pred 1975 so bile še precej tradiocionalistične. Še posebej iz manj razvitih držav, kot recimo SA.



Takih moških v tistih letih, si morda preštel na prste ene roke. Kaki drag queen-i in kaki geji za vikende, v zaprtih lokalih.

Še tisti, ki so se izdajali za hipije so v resnici bili precej maskilistični. Še za Jobsa, ki je bil flower child, znamo kak odnos je imel do žensk.

vostok_1 je 24. apr 2017 ob 20:38 izjavil:

Še tisti, ki so se izdajali za hipije so v resnici bili precej maskilistični. Še za Jobsa, ki je bil flower child, znamo kak odnos je imel do žensk.

Znamo? Vemo. Jobs je bil pa marketing department. Information Age pa za Muska furajo naprej tisti, ki pisejo razne Appe. Se vedno pa ne vemo kaj si ti naredil.

V bistvu je pa vse skupaj tole precej off-topic.

WarpedGone je 24. apr 2017 ob 19:44 izjavil:

Zadeva naj bi mela 95kWh baterijo in XYZ kW polnjenje...
Kdor mora vprašat kolk bo dosega ... se naj prej zbudi.

S 95kWh bo tudi 3.5 tone tezka zverina kar dalec prisla.

BigWhale je 24. apr 2017 ob 21:37 izjavil:

vostok_1 je 24. apr 2017 ob 20:38 izjavil:

Še tisti, ki so se izdajali za hipije so v resnici bili precej maskilistični. Še za Jobsa, ki je bil flower child, znamo kak odnos je imel do žensk.

Znamo? Vemo. Jobs je bil pa marketing department. Information Age pa za Muska furajo naprej tisti, ki pisejo razne Appe. Se vedno pa ne vemo kaj si ti naredil.

Jz nisem old school man. Definitivno ne sežem niti do gležnjev musku. Ampak i don't shit on great men, if it's not warranted.

Re ja, je off topic.

WarpedGone je 24. apr 2017 ob 22:15 izjavil:

Pismenim je jasno: www.supercharge.info

Ja, pismenim je jasno. V Evropi skromnih 296 Teslinih polnilnih postaj in 2962 CCS postaj.
http://ccs-map.eu/
Ali bo mogoče imel model 3 CCS konektor?

frudi je 24. apr 2017 ob 17:25 izjavil:

Tip je tako poln samega sebe, da ga niti dvakratna ločitev od iste ženske ni izučila pomembne lekcije... don't stick your dick in crazy

Gremo pobirat stave, kateri od njiju bo končal na urgenci in kateri v priporu, ko se tole razmerje eksplozivno konča?

Zato pa imaš predporočne pogodbe .

Learn to math, preden druge zmerjaš z debili.

Danes je najboljši dokaz dosedanja 'hitrost' izgradnje.

Tudi letos za zdaj ni sledov o tej blazni širitvi mreže superchargerjev

Ni sledov .. ne res ne, debil.

Pro_moted je 25. apr 2017 ob 15:23 izjavil:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla...

Torej, pritisk na Muska, da čimprej izpljune Tesla 3 model je takšen, da gre kar direktno v proizvodnjo. Nič poskusnega štancanja, izpopolnitve orodij, itd. , kar v prvo misli to izpeljat. No, kdor se kaj ukvarja s proizvodnjo, ve da je tole pravljica, ki jo bodo čutili kupci prvih nekaj deset tisoč ali več avtomobilov . Pa saj so kupci prvih serij vedno " beta testerji" ampak tole je pa na čisto drugi magnitudi.

True. Prvih 200 avtomobilov iz SERIJE po pravem sploh ne bi smelo biti registriranih, če se že kdo gre masovno serijsko proizvodnjo. Ta vozila so vedno (izvzemimo eksotične primere, ker je šlo za absurdno majhne serije)namenjena testiranjem ala crash testi, itd. Če bodo res tako kozlarijo naredili pri Tesli, so si giljotino nad glavo postavili. Verjetnost ali bo padla ali ne je pa odvisna od tega koliko skritih napak jih čaka za hrbtom.

Temu se že skoraj reče hvatanje krivin... kako bi, da ne bi. S tem kažejo odnos do potrošnikov in standardov. Saj je lepo če si mal poseben ampak vse ima mejo.

pegasus je 25. apr 2017 ob 15:54 izjavil:

Kolikor vem bodo prve izdelke z linije dobili zaposleni v Tesla in SpaceX, kar se mi zdi zelo smiselno.

Še isti dan dam odpoved, če bi se s prvimi moral vozit.

Unknown_001 je 25. apr 2017 ob 15:39 izjavil:

True. Prvih 200 avtomobilov iz SERIJE po pravem sploh ne bi smelo biti registriranih, če se že kdo gre masovno serijsko proizvodnjo. Ta vozila so vedno (izvzemimo eksotične primere, ker je šlo za absurdno majhne serije)namenjena testiranjem ala crash testi, itd. Če bodo res tako kozlarijo naredili pri Tesli, so si giljotino nad glavo postavili. Verjetnost ali bo padla ali ne je pa odvisna od tega koliko skritih napak jih čaka za hrbtom.

Temu se že skoraj reče hvatanje krivin... kako bi, da ne bi. S tem kažejo odnos do potrošnikov in standardov. Saj je lepo če si mal poseben ampak vse ima mejo.

Saj pri normalnih proizvajalcih ne gredo.

Se kdo spomni zelenega športnega mercedeza na sejmu? No, ta je eden od 16 testnih, ki bo/je šel po sejmu v prešo...

pegasus je 25. apr 2017 ob 17:07 izjavil:

Okapi je 25. apr 2017 ob 16:19 izjavil:

Prvih 100.000+ bodo dobili pripadniki kulta

Ne, prvih N bodo dobili ljudje, ki so najbližje proizvodnji in lahko najučinkoviteje prispevajo feedback za uvedbo izboljšav. Razmišljaj ekonomsko in sistemsko in ugotovil boš, da je to zelo smiselna poteza. Prava win-win situacija.

Tudi ob takojšnjem feedback-u so problemi lahko ogromni. Orodja za oblikovanje kovine ne spremeniš iz danes na jutri, niti ne celotnega sestavljalnega, proizvodnega in kontrolnega procesa za tem orodjem. Večinoma so avti izdelani brez večje količine napak po prvem faceliftu modela, kar pa vemo da je pri večini znamk po kakih 3 letah, s tem da imajo vsi že pred prvo prozvodnjo tako imenovano " mehko proizvodnjo" da izpilijo večje proizvodne težave ( seveda določene težave odpravljajo tudi vmes med celotno življenjsko dobo modela). V tem času se naredijo potrebni popravki v CAD , naročijo/ koregirajo orodja za izdelavo in posodobi proizvodni proces. Če bo to Tesli res uspelo vse kar v prvo bo to prava senzacija.
Eno je posodobiti software napake, drugo je popraviti proizvodne napake. Tole se gre res na nož in sem prepričan da ne zato , ker bi bili tako samozavestni.

Bežno spremljam, ampak je že kar nekaj najavljenih ... s tem da nekateri prototipi že letijo. Vsekakor čestitke Ivotu za vir financ za razvoj :)

Pipistrel? A to je tista kitajska firma?

Masovni leteči avti so...khm...idiotic. Ne samo da se znatno poveča nevarnost, učinek je...vprašljiv. Kar rabimo so popolnoma avtomatizirane ceste in gostejša naselitev.

Edina prednost letečih avtov bi bila za primere intervencij.