Rusija vs. Ukrajina aka. "Putin - še sladkih 16 let na oblasti?"

gozdar1 je 27. mar 2024 ob 10:33 izjavil:

Kaj bi amerika imela od uničenja rusije? To, da vseskozi nekdo načrtuje uničenje rusije je predvsem ruska paranoja (oz. proaganda).
Za ameriko je že vsaj zadnjih 15 let rusija v drugem planu, brez putinove vojne bi se z rusije nihče ne ukvarjal.
Poleg tega se ravno američani zaradi jedrskega orožje bojijo kake nestabilnosti znotraj rusije.

Pac-Man je 26. mar 2024 ob 19:24 izjavil:

nitka, klikni za več

https://twitter.com/OPolianichev/status...

This quote perfectly encapsulates Putin's arguments for war on Ukraine. Show it to any Russia sympathizer, in academia or beyond, and they will say it's a great explanation of why Russia is right – or not entirely wrong – invading Ukraine.

There's a small problem, however. This quote has nothing to do with either Ukraine or Russia. We've been there, haven't we?

The quote is from Hitler's famous Wilhelmshaven speech, where he reassured that Germany "does not dream of attacking other nations," but will never "tolerate intimidation, or even a policy of encirclement."

...

ali threadreader za tiste brez tvitr računa

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1772...

...

When the city experienced its first rise to prosperity, this coincided with the regeneration of the German Reich after its battle for unification. This Germany was a Germany of peace. At the same time as the so-called peace-loving virtuous nations were carrying on quite a number of wars, the Germany of that time had only one aim, namely, to preserve peace, to work in peace, to increase the prosperity of her inhabitants and thereby to contribute to human culture and civilisation.

...

We know to-day from historical records how the encirclement policy of that time had been systematically pursued by England. We know from numerous established facts and publications that in that land one was imbued with the conception that it was necessary to crush Germany militarily because its annihilation would assure to every British citizen a larger measure of this world's goods.

Certainly Germany at that time committed errors. Its worst error was to see this encirclement and to take no steps in time to avoid it. The only reproach which we can level at the regime of that day is the fact that it had full knowledge of the devilish plan for a surprise attack on the Reich, and even so was unable to make up its mind to avoid in time such an attack, but allowed this encirclement to mature right up to the outbreak of the catastrophe.

The result was the World War.

...

Germany at that time remained unbeaten and unvanquished on land, sea and in the air. And yet we lost the war. We know the power which at that time vanquished Germany. It was the power of falsehood, the poison of a propaganda which did not shrink from distortion and untruthfulness and which caught the German Reich because it was unprepared and defenceless.

...

The era of so-called secret diplomacy was to come to an end as well. All problems were to be discussed and negotiated openly and freely.

The right of self-determination for nations was to be finally established and be regarded as the most important factor.

Germany believed these assurances. Relying on these declarations Germany laid down her weapons. And then a breach of faith began such as world history has never seen.

At the moment when our people had laid down their arms a period of blackmail, oppression, pillage and slavery began.

...

No man in this democratic world bothered about the suffering of our people. Hundreds of thousands fell in the war, not through enemy action, but through the hunger blockade. And when the war came to an end this blockade was continued still for months in order to bring still further pressure on our nation. Even the German prisoners of war had to remain in captivity for indefinite periods. The German colonies were stolen from us, German foreign securities were simply confiscated, and our mercantile marine was taken away.

Then came financial pillage such as the world has never up to this day seen. Payments were imposed on the German people which reached astronomical figures, and about which English statesmen said that they could only be effected if the whole German nation reduced its standard of living to the utmost and worked fourteen hours a day.

...

And I at that time, as the unknown soldier of the World War, took up my position.

It was a short and simple programme; it ran: removal of the domestic enemies of the nation, termination of the internal division of Germany, co-ordination of the entire national force of our people in a new community, and the smashing of the Peace Treaty in one way or another ("so oder so!") For as long as this dictate of Versailles weighed upon the German people, it was actually doomed to go under.

...

For fifteen years Germany had borne this fate patiently. I also tried at the beginning to solve every problem by discussion. At every problem I made offers, and they were every time refused! There can be no doubt that every people possesses sacred interests, simply because they are identical with its life and its vital right.

If a British statesman to-day demands that every problem concerning vital German interests should first be discussed with England, then I could make precisely the same claim and demand that every British problem must first be discussed with us. Admittedly, this Englishman would answer: Palestine is none of your business! But, just as Germany has no business in Palestine, so has England no business in the German Lebensraum!

...

We at any rate have not slaughtered thousands in Central Europe, but have solved our problems in a peaceful and orderly manner! There is one thing, however, that I must say: the German people of to-day, the German Reich of the present time, are not willing to sacrifice interests, and they are also not willing to stand up to rising dangers without taking action! When the allies at one time changed the map of Europe with no consideration for expediency, justice, tradition or even common-sense, we did not have the power to prevent them from doing so. But if they expect the Germany of the present day patiently to allow vassal States, whose only duty consists in their being set to work against Germany, to carry on as they like until the day comes when their services are to be actively employed, then they are confounding present-day Germany with the Germany of pre-war days.

...

We have really no feelings of hatred for the Czech people, we have lived together for years. English statesmen do not know that. They have no idea that the Hradschin was built not by an Englishman but by Germans, and that the St. Veit's Cathedral was also not built by Englishmen but by Germans. Frenchmen also were not active there.

...

It is sufficient that we know it, and that it is true that for a thousand years this area belonged to the Lebensraum of the German people. We would, nevertheless, have had nothing against an independent Czech State if this State had not, firstly, oppressed Germans, and, secondly, if it had not been an instrument for a future attack on Germany.

But when a former French Air Minister writes in a newspaper that it is the task of this Czechia, because of her splendid geographical position, to strike at Germany's industry by air attacks in a war, then one will understand that it is not without interest to us, and that we drew certain conclusions therefrom.

(...) that I re-enforced ancient German right and reunited what had to be united by history, geographical position and all rules of common-sense.

Not for the purpose of suppressing the Czech people! It will have more freedom than the oppressed peoples of the virtuous nations!

I have, so I believe, thereby rendered a great service to peace, for I have in good time made valueless an instrument that was designed to become effective in time of war against Germany.

If people now say that this is the signal for Germany's desire to attack the whole world, then I do not believe they mean it seriously; such a statement could only be the expression of the very worst of consciences.

...

And it is from this conviction that I determined three weeks ago to give the coming Party Rally the name of "Party Rally of Peace." For Germany does not dream of attacking other nations.

...

This Axis is the most natural political instrument in the world. It is a political combination of ideas which owes its existence not only to reason and the desire for justice, but also to strength inspired by idealism.

This structure will hold out better than the present alliances of non-homogeneous bodies on the other side. For if anybody tells me to-day that there are no differences in world outlook or ideologies between England and Soviet Russia, I can only say: I congratulate you, Gentlemen.

...

We are experiencing in these days a very great triumph and a feeling of deep inner satisfaction. A country that was also devastated by bolshevism, in which hundreds and thousands of human beings, women, men, children and old people, were slaughtered, has liberated itself, and liberated itself in spite of ideological friends of bolshevism who sit in Great Britain, France and other countries.

We can only too well understand this Spain in her struggle, and we greet her and congratulate her on her victory. We Germans can say so with special pride, for many young German men have done their duty there.

They have helped as volunteers to break a tyrannical regime and to recover for a nation its right to self-determination.

...

This People's State desires to live in peace and friendship with every other State, it will, however, never again permit itself to be forced to its knees by any other State.

I do not know whether the world will become Fascist! I do not believe that the world will become National Socialist! But that the world will in the end ward off this worst form of bolshevistic threat in existence, of that I am absolutely convinced.

...

When I came into power, Germany was torn and impotent at home, and abroad a toy of foreign will. To-day we have order at home and our economy is flourishing. Abroad we are perhaps not popular, but we are respected. That is the decisive factor. Above all, we have given millions of our "Volksgenossen" the greatest happiness they could have wished for: their home-coming into our Great German Reich. And, secondly, we have given great happiness to Central Europe, namely, peace, peace protected by German power. And this power shall not be broken again by any force in the world. That shall be our oath.

...

They can conclude agreements, make declarations, as many as they like: I put my trust not in scraps of paper, but I put my trust in you, my "Volksgenossen."

Germans have been the victims of the greatest breach of promise of all time.

...

Twenty years ago the party was founded, at that time a very small structure. Recall the distance covered from that time until to-day. Recall the extent of the miracle that has been worked upon us. And have faith, therefore, by the very reason of our miraculous progress, in the further road of the German people in the coming great future!

gozdar1 je 27. mar 2024 ob 10:33 izjavil:

Kaj bi amerika imela od uničenja rusije?

The Kremlin aide added that the political and social cost of EU integration could also be high, and allowed for the possibility of separatist movements springing up in the Russian-speaking east and south of Ukraine. He suggested that if Ukraine signed the agreement, Russia would consider the bilateral treaty that delineates the countries' borders to be void.

"We don't want to use any kind of blackmail. This is a question for the Ukrainian people," said Glazyev. "But legally, signing this agreement about association with EU, the Ukrainian government violates the treaty on strategic partnership and friendship with Russia." When this happened, he said, Russia could no longer guarantee Ukraine's status as a state and could possibly intervene if pro-Russian regions of the country appealed directly to Moscow.

"Signing this treaty will lead to political and social unrest," said the Kremlin aide. "The living standard will decline dramatically … there will be chaos."

Rusi pravijo, da je njihov, ker podpisani dogovori.

Jazon je 27. mar 2024 ob 14:10 izjavil:

Bodi resen Ras-man
Gor imaš čistopis debate z botrico Viktorijo ("ukrajinka" po rodu). Financiranje kupa je šlo preko NED-a.

Jazon je 27. mar 2024 ob 15:31 izjavil:

Nulandova je v Ukrajini instalirala lutko, ki se od njenega odstopa v začetku marca bolj malo pojavlja.

Jazon je 27. mar 2024 ob 15:31 izjavil:

TESKAn je 27. mar 2024 ob 14:12 izjavil:

Rusi pravijo, da je njihov, ker podpisani dogovori.

Res? Podpisan je bil dogovor, da lahko nastavljajo lutke v ukrajini in jim diktirajo, kaj lahko in kaj ne, drugače vojska?

Ja, grozno, ampak v grobem je bil verjetno res tak dogovor. Rusi so Vogonsko gradbeno ladjevje.

Saj zdaj je isto. Nulandova je v Ukrajini instalirala lutko, ki se od njenega odstopa v začetku marca bolj malo pojavlja.

Če se postaviš Američanom po robu se ti zgodi pa Libija, Venezuela, Ekvador ipd.

Machete je 27. mar 2024 ob 14:09 izjavil:

A je kaj novega o FSB agentih, ki so bili tako napadalci in specialci v enem? Ali gre samo za fejk bučko na tviterjih.

Jazon je 27. mar 2024 ob 15:31 izjavil:

TESKAn je 27. mar 2024 ob 14:12 izjavil:

Rusi pravijo, da je njihov, ker podpisani dogovori.

Res? Podpisan je bil dogovor, da lahko nastavljajo lutke v ukrajini in jim diktirajo, kaj lahko in kaj ne, drugače vojska?

Ja, grozno, ampak v grobem je bil verjetno res tak dogovor. Rusi so Vogonsko gradbeno ladjevje.

Saj zdaj je isto. Nulandova je v Ukrajini instalirala lutko, ki se od njenega odstopa v začetku marca bolj malo pojavlja.

Če se postaviš Američanom po robu se ti zgodi pa Libija, Venezuela, Ekvador ipd.

dronyx je 27. mar 2024 ob 17:06 izjavil:

Ker bo Slovenija prispevala nek simboličen znesek za nabavo orožja Ukrajini so ruski hekerji onesposobili spletno stran predsednice države. Ali sledi povračilni udarec in slovenski hekerji zrušijo putlerjevo spletno stran? Po moje ne. Ne vem če razpolagamo s kakšno enoto za kibernetsko vojskovanje.

Jazon je 27. mar 2024 ob 17:33 izjavil:

Jaz bom zaključil v čem je razlika med mano in dron-armado v tej temi:

Vi mislite: Rusija je slaba, Amerika in EU sta dobri, Ukrajina je žrtev Rusije
Jaz mislim: Rusija je slaba, Amerika je slaba, EU je zavedena (in podkupljena na nivoju uradnikov), Ukrajina je žrtev interesov (Rusija vs. Amerika)

Jazon je 27. mar 2024 ob 17:33 izjavil:

Pismo, se zgrnete kot ukrajinski droni na twittersferi.

Po pravici povedano se mi v tem trenutku ne da ubadati z vsakim posebej, ker imam druge obveznosti.
Pac-manu se opravičujem, če je to razumel kot obtožbo.

@boolsheat je lepo povedal bistvo in povzel link do Borrella.

Bauc lepo zaključi, da je seveda logično, da Ukrajina preide iz ruskega v ameriško interesno področje.

Jaz bom zaključil v čem je razlika med mano in dron-armado v tej temi:

Vi mislite: Rusija je slaba, Amerika in EU sta dobri, Ukrajina je žrtev Rusije
Jaz mislim: Rusija je slaba, Amerika je slaba, EU je zavedena (in podkupljena na nivoju uradnikov), Ukrajina je žrtev interesov (Rusija vs. Amerika)

Bauc je 27. mar 2024 ob 17:17 izjavil:

Očitno ti ni nič jasno. Vzhodna Evropa je bila vse do konca Sovjetske zveze baje odločno proti NATO. Kakšna je bila realnost se je pa pokazalo takoj, ko so Rusi izgubili svoj bič. Borrel je pa seveda lepo povedal, da je potrebno Ukrajini pomagati in to ne izključno iz ljubezni ampak tudi zato, ker je to tudi v našem interesu. Čist logično

damirj79 je 27. mar 2024 ob 18:02 izjavil:

Narobe. Izhajaš iz predpostavke, da zahod diktira politiko v ukrajini. Kar seveda ne drži. Volitve so pokazale jasno sliko, da si Ukrajina ne želi povezovanja z rusijo, kar je razumljivo, saj so nekoč že bili povezani in rezultat ni bil dober. In to kljub močni ruski manjšini. Predlagam da si ogledaš kak dokumentarec o ukrajinski osamosvojitvi in ne gledaš samo ruske propagande. Mogoče ti bo kaj bolj jasno, ksr ti zdaj očitno ni.

Jazon je 27. mar 2024 ob 17:33 izjavil:

Jaz mislim: Rusija je slaba, Amerika je slaba, EU je zavedena (in podkupljena na nivoju uradnikov), Ukrajina je žrtev interesov (Rusija vs. Amerika)

boolsheat je 27. mar 2024 ob 18:20 izjavil:

Bauc je 27. mar 2024 ob 17:17 izjavil:

Očitno ti ni nič jasno. Vzhodna Evropa je bila vse do konca Sovjetske zveze baje odločno proti NATO. Kakšna je bila realnost se je pa pokazalo takoj, ko so Rusi izgubili svoj bič. Borrel je pa seveda lepo povedal, da je potrebno Ukrajini pomagati in to ne izključno iz ljubezni ampak tudi zato, ker je to tudi v našem interesu. Čist logično

Sovjetska zveza je razpadla 2014? Vsaj dan se naučiš kaj novega...

Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO relations @ Wikipedia

V našem interesu? Predvsem poudarja interes ZDA. To je sramotno za podpredsednika EU komisije.

damirj79 je 27. mar 2024 ob 18:02 izjavil:

Narobe. Izhajaš iz predpostavke, da zahod diktira politiko v ukrajini. Kar seveda ne drži. Volitve so pokazale jasno sliko, da si Ukrajina ne želi povezovanja z rusijo, kar je razumljivo, saj so nekoč že bili povezani in rezultat ni bil dober. In to kljub močni ruski manjšini. Predlagam da si ogledaš kak dokumentarec o ukrajinski osamosvojitvi in ne gledaš samo ruske propagande. Mogoče ti bo kaj bolj jasno, ksr ti zdaj očitno ni.

Narobe.
Pravim, da se USA vmeša v Ukrajinsko politiko - in to je jasno, da se je.
Nič ni narobe, če se Ukrajina sama želi usmeriti pro-evropsko, super.
Problem je kako se zadeva rešuje, da ne pride do konflikta - ker je bil iz strani Rusije ta scenarij napovedan več kot 10 let nazaj.

Jazon je 27. mar 2024 ob 17:33 izjavil:

Jaz mislim: Rusija je slaba, Amerika je slaba, EU je zavedena (in podkupljena na nivoju uradnikov), Ukrajina je žrtev interesov (Rusija vs. Amerika)

Nekako tako, ja.

Kot pove Borrell - niso pomembni ljudje, mrtvi Ukrajinci, ampak interesi - ruski in ameriški. EU je pa očitno samo za okras?

Jazon je 27. mar 2024 ob 17:33 izjavil:

Jaz bom zaključil v čem je razlika med mano in dron-armado v tej temi:

Vi mislite: Rusija je slaba, Amerika in EU sta dobri, Ukrajina je žrtev Rusije
Jaz mislim: Rusija je slaba, Amerika je slaba, EU je zavedena (in podkupljena na nivoju uradnikov), Ukrajina je žrtev interesov (Rusija vs. Amerika)

Russian state TV stated that there are no more pro-russian people in Ukraine. Everyone who wanted, has already left Ukraine and went to Russia.

So there is no need to feel sorry for the remaining people. And it is necessary to completely destroy Kyiv and Kharkov

Pac-Man je 25. mar 2024 ob 23:48 izjavil:

video z nadnapisi

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/sta...

In this video from 2003, Russian propagandist Solovyev (I guess then he could even have been called a journalist) discusses the terrorist attack in Russian Dubrovka being organized by Russian secret services. Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya (who was later killed by Putin's regime) tells him that.

21 years later, history repeats itself in Russia.