Forum » Problemi človeštva » Konflikt v Siriji
Konflikt v Siriji
Temo vidijo: vsi
Poldi112 ::
Dejansko impresivno. Kdo bi si mislil, da je US medij še sposoben objektivnosti. :)
Zgleda so šefi ugotovili, da je el presidente gotof.
Zgleda so šefi ugotovili, da je el presidente gotof.
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
windigo ::
Igor Mekina povzema Roberta Fiska, ki se trenutno nahaja v Doumi, da tam pred dnevi ni prišlo do zastrupitve s kemičnim orožjem. Slednja je spin. Posnetki pa so pristni in naj bi nastali zaradi peščenega viharja (v katerem helikopterji in avioni ne letijo) in dušenja zaradi prahu v zraku.
https://insajder.com/svet/medijska-bomb...
From the horses mouth:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sy...
https://insajder.com/svet/medijska-bomb...
From the horses mouth:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sy...
Smrekar1 ::
Igor Mekina povzema Roberta Fiska, ki se trenutno nahaja v Doumi, da tam pred dnevi ni prišlo do zastrupitve s kemičnim orožjem.
Igor Mekina je debil.
As Dr Assim Rahaibani announces this extraordinary conclusion, it is worth observing that he is by his own admission not an eyewitness himself and, as he speaks good English, he refers twice to the jihadi gunmen of Jaish el-Islam [the Army of Islam] in Douma as “terrorists” – the regime’s word for their enemies, and a term used by many people across Syria.
Robert Fisk je poročal, da eden od zdravnikov v Doumi pravi, da do zastrupitve ni prišlo, ampak da je prišlo do zadušitev zaradi drugih razlogov. Besednjak zdravnika nakazuje na pro-režimska nagnjenja. Nadalje v članku pravi, da je čisto vseeno ali je prišlo do napada ali ne, do zločinov proti človeštvu je vsekakor prišlo.
Jasno je tudi kdo spina. Sliši na ime Igor.
Ne vse EU banke so pod kontrolo ECB, prosto po prešernu, kot na primer z NLB si pač ne moreš privoščiti.
Tudi če ne boš uspel našteti nobene privatne centralne banke se boš osmešil.
Kaj je narobe z vami, da ne zmorete nobenega argumenta, ki bi preživel sekundo logike?
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Smrekar1 ()
peburuchug ::
The search for truth in the rubble of Douma - and one doctor's doubts over the chemical attack
There was a lot of shelling [by government forces] and aircraft were always over Douma at night - but on this night, there was wind and huge dust clouds began to come into the basements and cellars where people lived. People began to arrive here suffering from hypoxia, oxygen loss. Then someone at the door, a "White Helmet", shouted "Gas!", and a panic began. People started throwing water over each other. Yes, the video was filmed here, it is genuine, but what you see are people suffering from hypoxia - not gas poisoning."
...
How could it be that Douma refugees who had reached camps in Turkey were already describing a gas attack which no-one in Douma today seemed to recall?
There was a lot of shelling [by government forces] and aircraft were always over Douma at night - but on this night, there was wind and huge dust clouds began to come into the basements and cellars where people lived. People began to arrive here suffering from hypoxia, oxygen loss. Then someone at the door, a "White Helmet", shouted "Gas!", and a panic began. People started throwing water over each other. Yes, the video was filmed here, it is genuine, but what you see are people suffering from hypoxia - not gas poisoning."
...
How could it be that Douma refugees who had reached camps in Turkey were already describing a gas attack which no-one in Douma today seemed to recall?
Smrekar1 ::
peburuchug je izjavil:
The search for truth in the rubble of Douma - and one doctor's doubts over the chemical attack
There was a lot of shelling [by government forces] and aircraft were always over Douma at night - but on this night, there was wind and huge dust clouds began to come into the basements and cellars where people lived. People began to arrive here suffering from hypoxia, oxygen loss. Then someone at the door, a "White Helmet", shouted "Gas!", and a panic began. People started throwing water over each other. Yes, the video was filmed here, it is genuine, but what you see are people suffering from hypoxia - not gas poisoning."
...
How could it be that Douma refugees who had reached camps in Turkey were already describing a gas attack which no-one in Douma today seemed to recall?
But it was a strange world I walked into. Two men, Hussam and Nazir Abu Aishe, said they were unaware how many people had been killed in Douma, although the latter admitted he had a cousin “executed by Jaish el-Islam [the Army of Islam] for allegedly being “close to the regime”. They shrugged when I asked about the 43 people said to have died in the infamous Douma attack.
Režimski agenti ne vedo za napad. Kako kredibilno. Jasno je tudi, da jim vaš vir ne verjame.
The White Helmets – the medical first responders already legendary in the West but with some interesting corners to their own story – played a familiar role during the battles. They are partly funded by the Foreign Office and most of the local offices were staffed by Douma men. I found their wrecked offices not far from Dr Rahaibani’s clinic. A gas mask had been left outside a food container with one eye-piece pierced and a pile of dirty military camouflage uniforms lay inside one room. Planted, I asked myself? I doubt it. The place was heaped with capsules, broken medical equipment and files, bedding and mattresses.
Fail level: Rusofil: ko citiraš vir, ki te demantira.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Smrekar1 ()
peburuchug ::
Režimski agenti ne vedo za napad. Kako kredibilno. Jasno je tudi, da jim vaš vir ne verjame.
Seveda, ti verjameš Makaronu, ker on je cvet kredibilnosti ko reče da ima dokaze, sam jih ne more pokazat ker... eh... aja, samo antisemit bi hotel dokaz.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- predlagal izbris: Smrekar1 ()
Pac-Man ::
Slednja je spin. Posnetki pa so pristni in naj bi nastali zaradi peščenega viharja (v katerem helikopterji in avioni ne letijo) in dušenja zaradi prahu v zraku.
prah
Beeeeeee. Beeeeeeee.
Zgodba je taka - assadov režim je zdravnikom zagrozil, da se njim in njihovim družinskim članom ne bo dobro pisalo, če povedo po resnici.
In nato dobimo take butaste zgodbice. Za nekatere, ki reeeeeeeees želijo verjeti, dovolj.
P.S.
Zanimiv peščeni vihar. Omejen na NOTRANJOST ene ali dveh zgradb.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
leiito ::
Igor Mekina povzema Roberta Fiska, ki se trenutno nahaja v Doumi, da tam pred dnevi ni prišlo do zastrupitve s kemičnim orožjem. Slednja je spin. Posnetki pa so pristni in naj bi nastali zaradi peščenega viharja (v katerem helikopterji in avioni ne letijo) in dušenja zaradi prahu v zraku.
https://insajder.com/svet/medijska-bomb...
From the horses mouth:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sy...
ta članek smo že pred dnevi linkal, ampak ni res, kar trdi Mekina, da je Fisk ugotovil, da ni bilo napada, Fisk je govoril z zdravnikom iz Doume, ki tudi sam ni priča iz prve roke, ampak je od drugih slišal opise dogajanja in sklepal, da je šlo za pomanjkanje kisika v tunelu. Kar Fisk v članku tudi jasno poudari in ne postavlja trditev, ampak samo poroča kaj pač meni ta zdravnik.
Mr.B ::
Igor Mekina povzema Roberta Fiska, ki se trenutno nahaja v Doumi, da tam pred dnevi ni prišlo do zastrupitve s kemičnim orožjem.
Igor Mekina je debil.
As Dr Assim Rahaibani announces this extraordinary conclusion, it is worth observing that he is by his own admission not an eyewitness himself and, as he speaks good English, he refers twice to the jihadi gunmen of Jaish el-Islam [the Army of Islam] in Douma as “terrorists” – the regime’s word for their enemies, and a term used by many people across Syria.
Robert Fisk je poročal, da eden od zdravnikov v Doumi pravi, da do zastrupitve ni prišlo, ampak da je prišlo do zadušitev zaradi drugih razlogov. Besednjak zdravnika nakazuje na pro-režimska nagnjenja. Nadalje v članku pravi, da je čisto vseeno ali je prišlo do napada ali ne, do zločinov proti človeštvu je vsekakor prišlo.
Jasno je tudi kdo spina. Sliši na ime Igor.
Ne vse EU banke so pod kontrolo ECB, prosto po prešernu, kot na primer z NLB si pač ne moreš privoščiti.
Tudi če ne boš uspel našteti nobene privatne centralne banke se boš osmešil.
Kaj je narobe z vami, da ne zmorete nobenega argumenta, ki bi preživel sekundo logike?
Verjetno lahko Slovenska državna centralna banka tiska Eure brez odobritve EU, ne ne more, ali lahko nastavlja obresti v Eurih, ne nemore. Lahko tiska Tolarje, ja če si retartdit seveda lahko, kupil jih ne bo nihče, pa še po zdravju te bodo povprašali. Da Centralna banka v EU, je pod ECB nadzorom, to da je na dunsjaki cesti, še ne pomeni da je samostojna.
France Rejects Genocide Accusations Against Israel in Gaza,
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold
Pac-Man ::
Uvod je kul, Firasova angleščina pa je malo vprašljiva. Ampak se razume.
https://twitter.com/PatrickHilsman/stat...
A citizen journalist of Douma who reported on the chlorine attacks speaks about Jaysh al Islam's brutality. JAI kidnaped revolutionaries + brutalized the population. Firas sure doesn't sound like a tool of JAI. He sure doesn't sound like he's giving up.
The history will talk about #Douma_city and mention that, a criminal president called Bashar al-Assad has been attacking the city for 7 years in raw, without any kind of mercy or caring for the civilians.
And that a radical Islamist faction called “Islam Army” has ruled the city by dictatorship and had had over 7 prisons were full in who opened their mouths against the faction & its godfather who called “Sameer Kakeh” who played in the religion as his own interests & own desire.
Everyone was opposite him was accused as (Secular, ISIS, or bad things spreader), the accuses were already written such as what it was in Assad prisons.
The dictatorship is one, but it has several colors.
I was waiting the moment I can talk against this gang which ruled us in iron exactly like ISIS. I’ve been accused as a secular and I’ve been threatened also to be arrested or killed by the guys of this gang.
I left the city with my witness of the crimes against the human there, between both criminals “Assad” and “Jaish Islam leaders”.
We’ll not forget...
#Douma today during evacuation oppression today.
https://twitter.com/PatrickHilsman/stat...
A citizen journalist of Douma who reported on the chlorine attacks speaks about Jaysh al Islam's brutality. JAI kidnaped revolutionaries + brutalized the population. Firas sure doesn't sound like a tool of JAI. He sure doesn't sound like he's giving up.
The history will talk about #Douma_city and mention that, a criminal president called Bashar al-Assad has been attacking the city for 7 years in raw, without any kind of mercy or caring for the civilians.
And that a radical Islamist faction called “Islam Army” has ruled the city by dictatorship and had had over 7 prisons were full in who opened their mouths against the faction & its godfather who called “Sameer Kakeh” who played in the religion as his own interests & own desire.
Everyone was opposite him was accused as (Secular, ISIS, or bad things spreader), the accuses were already written such as what it was in Assad prisons.
The dictatorship is one, but it has several colors.
I was waiting the moment I can talk against this gang which ruled us in iron exactly like ISIS. I’ve been accused as a secular and I’ve been threatened also to be arrested or killed by the guys of this gang.
I left the city with my witness of the crimes against the human there, between both criminals “Assad” and “Jaish Islam leaders”.
We’ll not forget...
#Douma today during evacuation oppression today.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
peburuchug ::
Beeeeeee. Beeeeeeee.
Zgodba je taka - assadov režim je zdravnikom zagrozil, da se njim in njihovim družinskim članom ne bo dobro pisalo, če povedo po resnici.
In nato dobimo take butaste zgodbice. Za nekatere, ki reeeeeeeees želijo verjeti, dovolj.
Slo tekovski intelektualac zna bolje od človek ki je od dol. Majkemi, imaš res.
Vsak normalen človek v konfliktu med Asadom in ISISom ve katera stran je moralno superiorna. In to je seveda ISIS, ker trditi nasprotno je antisemitizem.
Fritz ::
Mnjah...čakam na OPCW..medtem pa:
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/04/sy...
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/04/sy...
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein
windigo ::
ta članek smo že pred dnevi linkal, ampak ni res, kar trdi Mekina, da je Fisk ugotovil, da ni bilo napada, Fisk je govoril z zdravnikom iz Doume, ki tudi sam ni priča iz prve roke, ampak je od drugih slišal opise dogajanja in sklepal, da je šlo za pomanjkanje kisika v tunelu. Kar Fisk v članku tudi jasno poudari in ne postavlja trditev, ampak samo poroča kaj pač meni ta zdravnik.
Nekaj dni nisem bral te teme in pogledal sem nekje dve strani nazaj, če je bilo že kaj objavljeno, vseh prepucavanj pa žal (ali na srečo) nisem prebral in nakucali so jih mnogo. Mekina zadevo frejma tako senzacionalistično, da sem šel seveda gledat original in bil precej začuden, da je original zelo low-key, resignirano cinično skeptičen in praktično brez odziva in odmeva.
windigo ::
kopriwa ::
Mnjah...čakam na OPCW..medtem pa:
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/04/sy...
Hvala za link. V njem je še nekaj dodatnih, ki "debunkajo" video s trupli ljudi, ki naj bi umrli zaradi kemičnega napada. Trupla čudežno dobivajo nove okraske (npr. pena na ustih), jih prestavljajo iz prostora v prostor, dodajajo nova idr. Skratka, primer kemičnega napada zrežiran da bolj ne mora bit (trupla seveda niso zrežirana). Link.
Poldi112 ::
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
peburuchug ::
https://www.dnevnik.si/1042818933/mnenj...
Bla, bla, bla, Hitler... muh čustva, naši elitni pesniki, asad je hitler, trump je hitler, putin je hitler... samo moralno signaliziranje in gobcanje brezveznikov, za katere vsi vemo da ne bojo s svojim gobcem dosegli nič. Skratka, po toči zvoniti je prepozno.
Poldi112 ::
Mater si patetičen. Zaslužijo si hvalo, da se postavijo po robu zahodnoterorističnim metodam, ki nam jih prodajajo kot demokracijo. Kaj ima veze, da je napad že mimo? Glavno, da se govori o tem in vpliva na javno mnenje. Iz Vietnama so se Američani pobrali šele, ko jih je v to prisilila domača javnost. Ceno pol miljona mrtvih in uničeno državo so pa plačali nedolžni. Super ane? Mar bi držali gobec, da bi jih zdemokratizirali miljon?
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
MadMicka ::
Poldi112, tebi stvari niso čisto jasne. Vietnamska vojna spada v okvir t.i. hladne vojne, šlo je za borbo za vplivna območja med tedanjo SSSR in NATO.
Zahodnoteroristične metode, ki nam jih prodajajo kot demokracijo, kot praviš, to pa je navadna laž in izmišljotina.
ZDA, Nemčija, Anglija, Francija, itd., ne pobijajo in zapirajo lastnih novinarjev, kot to počnejo v Rusiji, Turčiji, itd.
Ko nimaš v državi sredstev javnega obveščanja, ki bi kritizirale oblast, o demokraciji ne more biti več govora, zdej, če ti to ni jasno, potem si bodisi omejen, bodisi imaš preveč polno rit in preveč časa, da govoriš in pišeš, kar ti pade na pamet.
Zahodnoteroristične metode, ki nam jih prodajajo kot demokracijo, kot praviš, to pa je navadna laž in izmišljotina.
ZDA, Nemčija, Anglija, Francija, itd., ne pobijajo in zapirajo lastnih novinarjev, kot to počnejo v Rusiji, Turčiji, itd.
Ko nimaš v državi sredstev javnega obveščanja, ki bi kritizirale oblast, o demokraciji ne more biti več govora, zdej, če ti to ni jasno, potem si bodisi omejen, bodisi imaš preveč polno rit in preveč časa, da govoriš in pišeš, kar ti pade na pamet.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: MadMicka ()
windigo ::
ZDA, Nemčija, Anglija, Francija, itd., ne pobijajo in zapirajo lastnih novinarjev, kot to počnejo v Rusiji, Turčiji, itd.
V Angliji so se ravnokar odločili, da bodo dali dovoljenje za oddajanje RT v presojo OFCOMu (=angleški AKOS) zaradi pristranskega poročanja o incidentu s Skripalovima v Salisburyu.
Poldi112 ::
Poldi112, tebi stvari niso čisto jasne. Vietnamska vojna spada v okvir t.i. hladne vojne, šlo je za borbo za vplivna območja med tedanjo SSSR in NATO.
Zahodnoteroristične metode, ki nam jih prodajajo kot demokracijo, kot praviš, to pa je navadna laž in izmišljotina.
ZDA, Nemčija, Anglija, Francija, itd., ne pobijajo in zapirajo lastnih novinarjev, kot to počnejo v Rusiji, Turčiji, itd.
Ko nimaš v državi sredstev javnega obveščanja, ki bi kritizirale oblast, o demokraciji ne more biti več govora, zdej, če ti to ni jasno, potem si bodisi omejen, bodisi imaš preveč polno rit in preveč časa, da govoriš in pišeš, kar ti pade na pamet.
Lastnih ne pobijajo, na tuje pa kar pritiskajo. Po tistem, ko Al Jazeera ni klonila pod pritiskom Collin Powwel-a recimo, je večkrat dobila raketo v svoje pisarne. Da ne omenjam nacionalega ogorčenja, ko je bila ideja, da začne oddajati v USA. Niso ji pustili. Zanimivo, ane, za državo, ki ji je toliko do svobode govora...
Novinarjev pa ne rabijo metati čez okno, ker uporabljajo bolj prefinjene metode. Ko je CNN je zaradi dinarčkov diktatorčkov pozabil objaviti reportažo o Arabski pomladi v mislim da bahrain-u. Novinarki so zagrozili, da bo ob službo in penzijo, če pisne. Ona je, mnogi tudi, koliko jih pa zgolj servilno blebeče propagando? Googlaj Sinclair group. :)
Zahodni mediji so skoraj tako daleč od objektivnosti kot ruski. CNN pravi, da se ne spodobi kritizirati vlade v vojni - posledično imamo razsut Irak na podlagi fabriciranih dokazov. Podobno Nikaragva. USA pobija civile, zažiga šole, ... skrakta terorizira prebivalce s končnim ciljem, da se obrnejo proti komunistični vladi (neprimerno bolj demokratična od vseh USA vazalov v sosednjih državah). Zahodni mediji pa pljuvajo po komunistični vladi zgolj zaradi imena. No, pa ker jim vlada tako naroči. Koliko medijev je denajsko poročalo o USA grozotah po južni in srednji Ameriki? Praktično noben - trobili so o širjenju demokracije.
Kaj ti pomaga medij, ki je zgolj propagandno trobilo vlade? Če ti je pa "boj proti komunizmu" opravičljiv razlog za 20 let teroriziranja države in pol miljona mrtvih, si pa moralno hudo reven. Ali pa da zagovarjaš USA po 100 letih svetovnega teroriziranja levo in desno. In po tem, ko ti povedo, da se jim zdi ok pobiti pol miljona otrok, zgolj da izvajajo pritisk na Saddama.
Nategnili so te, da so svetovni policaj in da se posledično smejo vmešavati v suverenost držav. Nemce smo za tako početje obesili, Američanom pa veselo ploskaš. Zakaj že?
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Poldi112 ()
MadMicka ::
Čaki mal, kdo veselo ploska Američanom? Če komu ploskam, ploskam EU. Kar pa se tiče vmešavanja v suverenost držav, se lahko vmeša OZN oz. po njenem mandatu voljne sile. Pa še to, nihče ni obesil Nemce, so pa obesili in postrelili po drugi svetovni vojni tiste, ki so zagrešili vojne zločine. Mislim, wtf, dej se malo vzemi v roke.
Poldi112 ::
Zahodnoteroristične metode, ki nam jih prodajajo kot demokracijo, kot praviš, to pa je navadna laž in izmišljotina.
Kako bi pa ti opisal poboj pol miljona otrok zato, da razfukaš državo. Zame je ignoriranje OZN in bombardiranje držav, ki ne ubogajo, terorizem, ne demokracija.
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Pac-Man ::
Whack-a-dipshit.
Govora je o tem.
Intervju je iz leta 1996. Otrok ni nihče pobil, ampak naj bi umrli kot posledica posledica sankcij, ki so jih ZN naložile Iraku l. 1990. Pomanjkanje zdravil, podhranjenost...torej dobrih 80 000 otrok na leto.
Sanctions against Iraq @ Wikipedia
The sanctions against Iraq were a near-total financial and trade embargo imposed by the United Nations Security Council on Ba'athist Iraq. They began August 6, 1990, four days after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, stayed largely in force until May 2003 (after Saddam Hussein's being forced from power), and persisted in part, including reparations to Kuwait, through the present. The original stated purposes of the sanctions were to compel Iraq to withdraw from Kuwait, to pay reparations, and to disclose and eliminate any weapons of mass destruction.
...
The effects of the sanctions on the civilian population of Iraq have been disputed. Whereas it was widely believed that the sanctions caused a major rise in child mortality, research following the 2003 invasion of Iraq has shown that commonly cited data were doctored by the Saddam Hussein regime and that "there was no major rise in child mortality in Iraq after 1990 and during the period of the sanctions".
...
On May 12, 1996, Madeleine Albright (then U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations) appeared on a 60 Minutes segment in which Lesley Stahl asked her "We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, are is the price worth it?" and Albright replied "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price, we think the price is worth it." Albright wrote later that Saddam Hussein, not the sanctions, was to blame. She criticized Stahl's segment as "amount[ing] to Iraqi propaganda"; said that her question was a loaded question; wrote "I had fallen into a trap and said something I did not mean"; and regretted coming "across as cold-blooded and cruel". The segment won an Emmy Award. Albright's "non-denial" was taken by sanctions opponents as confirmation of a high number of sanctions related casualties.
Sankcije niso bile zaradi lepšega, ampak zato, ker je bil Sadam sadistični in ekspanzionistični kos dreka v človeški obliki, ki je v prejšnjih letih napadel 2 sosedi. Na žalost ga ZDA s koalicijo niso odstranile ko je bil čas, l. 1991. Večna tragedija zahodnih posredovanj, nekaj začnejo in ne dokončajo.
Kot je omenjeno že zgoraj, številke so podane s strani sadamovega režima, o točnosti so resni dvomi.
avgust 2017
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor...
During the rush to wage war in Iraq in the early 2000s, one figure widely cited both to justify and oppose the U.S.-led invasion was that more than 500,000 children had died as a result of U.N.-imposed sanctions in the previous decade.
Nearly two decades later, researchers at the London School of Economics have concluded that the figure simply wasn’t true.
...
A number of reports in the 1990s that suggested increases in the number of child deaths as a result of the sanctions were marred by poor or inadequate methodology, including one that appears to have included children who died in the Iraqi government’s crackdown against Kurds in the late 1980s.
But the most frequently cited study, one that caused widespread alarm at the time, was conducted by the United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF) based on figures that were deliberately falsified by the Iraqi government, the authors said. The survey showed that an additional 550,000 more children had died as a result of the sanctions than would have been expected had the sanctions not been imposed — on the basis of figures supplied by the Iraqi government and conducted by Iraqi government appointed researchers.
“The data were evidently rigged to show a huge and sustained — and largely non-existent — rise in child mortality,” the authors concluded. “The objective of Saddam Hussein’s government was to heighten international concern and to get the economic sanctions ended.”
The authors cite three subsequent U.N. studies carried out in the 2000s on the basis of independent research as evidence that the original report was flawed. Yet although the United Nations has subsequently disproved its own survey, it has not sought to correct the record, the authors said.
Govora je o tem.
Intervju je iz leta 1996. Otrok ni nihče pobil, ampak naj bi umrli kot posledica posledica sankcij, ki so jih ZN naložile Iraku l. 1990. Pomanjkanje zdravil, podhranjenost...torej dobrih 80 000 otrok na leto.
Sanctions against Iraq @ Wikipedia
The sanctions against Iraq were a near-total financial and trade embargo imposed by the United Nations Security Council on Ba'athist Iraq. They began August 6, 1990, four days after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, stayed largely in force until May 2003 (after Saddam Hussein's being forced from power), and persisted in part, including reparations to Kuwait, through the present. The original stated purposes of the sanctions were to compel Iraq to withdraw from Kuwait, to pay reparations, and to disclose and eliminate any weapons of mass destruction.
...
The effects of the sanctions on the civilian population of Iraq have been disputed. Whereas it was widely believed that the sanctions caused a major rise in child mortality, research following the 2003 invasion of Iraq has shown that commonly cited data were doctored by the Saddam Hussein regime and that "there was no major rise in child mortality in Iraq after 1990 and during the period of the sanctions".
...
On May 12, 1996, Madeleine Albright (then U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations) appeared on a 60 Minutes segment in which Lesley Stahl asked her "We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, are is the price worth it?" and Albright replied "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price, we think the price is worth it." Albright wrote later that Saddam Hussein, not the sanctions, was to blame. She criticized Stahl's segment as "amount[ing] to Iraqi propaganda"; said that her question was a loaded question; wrote "I had fallen into a trap and said something I did not mean"; and regretted coming "across as cold-blooded and cruel". The segment won an Emmy Award. Albright's "non-denial" was taken by sanctions opponents as confirmation of a high number of sanctions related casualties.
Sankcije niso bile zaradi lepšega, ampak zato, ker je bil Sadam sadistični in ekspanzionistični kos dreka v človeški obliki, ki je v prejšnjih letih napadel 2 sosedi. Na žalost ga ZDA s koalicijo niso odstranile ko je bil čas, l. 1991. Večna tragedija zahodnih posredovanj, nekaj začnejo in ne dokončajo.
Kot je omenjeno že zgoraj, številke so podane s strani sadamovega režima, o točnosti so resni dvomi.
avgust 2017
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor...
During the rush to wage war in Iraq in the early 2000s, one figure widely cited both to justify and oppose the U.S.-led invasion was that more than 500,000 children had died as a result of U.N.-imposed sanctions in the previous decade.
Nearly two decades later, researchers at the London School of Economics have concluded that the figure simply wasn’t true.
...
A number of reports in the 1990s that suggested increases in the number of child deaths as a result of the sanctions were marred by poor or inadequate methodology, including one that appears to have included children who died in the Iraqi government’s crackdown against Kurds in the late 1980s.
But the most frequently cited study, one that caused widespread alarm at the time, was conducted by the United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF) based on figures that were deliberately falsified by the Iraqi government, the authors said. The survey showed that an additional 550,000 more children had died as a result of the sanctions than would have been expected had the sanctions not been imposed — on the basis of figures supplied by the Iraqi government and conducted by Iraqi government appointed researchers.
“The data were evidently rigged to show a huge and sustained — and largely non-existent — rise in child mortality,” the authors concluded. “The objective of Saddam Hussein’s government was to heighten international concern and to get the economic sanctions ended.”
The authors cite three subsequent U.N. studies carried out in the 2000s on the basis of independent research as evidence that the original report was flawed. Yet although the United Nations has subsequently disproved its own survey, it has not sought to correct the record, the authors said.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
Fritz ::
Čaki mal, kdo veselo ploska Američanom? Če komu ploskam, ploskam EU. Kar pa se tiče vmešavanja v suverenost držav, se lahko vmeša OZN oz. po njenem mandatu voljne sile. Pa še to, nihče ni obesil Nemce, so pa obesili in postrelili po drugi svetovni vojni tiste, ki so zagrešili vojne zločine. Mislim, wtf, dej se malo vzemi v roke.
Če bi se kdo moral vzeti v roke, si to ti. Glede 'nepristranskih' medijev ti je že Poldi dobro razložil.
Jaz bom dodal, da NATO z Vietnamom ni imel nič, ker to področje sploh ni domena zveze NATO. Očitno nimaš pojma o hladni vojni in vlogi NATA v njej.
Kar se tiče poseganja v suverene države, absolutno drži, da je za to pristojen VS OZN. Pa gremo hitro na zadnje večje posege ZDA & Co., ki so se zgodili mimo odobritve VS OZN - 2. iraška vojna in okupacija Iraka, napad na Libijo in oboroževanje islamistov ter napadi na Sirijo. V drugem primeru gre za prekoračitev mandata podeljenega s strani OZN, pri Iraku in Siriji pa gre za popolnoma čisto in nedvoumno kršitev mednarodnega prava in agresijo na suvereno državo. V čem naj bi to bilo dobro?
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein
Poldi112 ::
Čaki mal, kdo veselo ploska Američanom? Če komu ploskam, ploskam EU. Kar pa se tiče vmešavanja v suverenost držav, se lahko vmeša OZN oz. po njenem mandatu voljne sile. Pa še to, nihče ni obesil Nemce, so pa obesili in postrelili po drugi svetovni vojni tiste, ki so zagrešili vojne zločine. Mislim, wtf, dej se malo vzemi v roke.
Crime against peace @ Wikipedia
Pac-man pa očitno tudi misli, da je pol miljona mrtvih otrok ok, medtem ko bojda par 10, ki jih je menda ubil Assad, zahtevajo agresijo na suvereno državo. Ki je, mimogrede, brez mandata OZN, zločin proti miru, definiran in uporabljen prvič proti Nemcem na Nurnmergu.
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Poldi112 ()
Samuel ::
Poldi112, tebi stvari niso čisto jasne. Vietnamska vojna spada v okvir t.i. hladne vojne, šlo je za borbo za vplivna območja med tedanjo SSSR in NATO.
Zahodnoteroristične metode, ki nam jih prodajajo kot demokracijo, kot praviš, to pa je navadna laž in izmišljotina.
ZDA, Nemčija, Anglija, Francija, itd., ne pobijajo in zapirajo lastnih novinarjev, kot to počnejo v Rusiji, Turčiji, itd.
Ko nimaš v državi sredstev javnega obveščanja, ki bi kritizirale oblast, o demokraciji ne more biti več govora, zdej, če ti to ni jasno, potem si bodisi omejen, bodisi imaš preveč polno rit in preveč časa, da govoriš in pišeš, kar ti pade na pamet.
Poldi je sprogramiran BOT. Fura svojo agendo ne glede na karkoli.
If you notice this notice, you will notice that this notice is
noticably not worth noticing.
noticably not worth noticing.
Poldi112 ::
Zgolj resnico, kolega. Kaj je pa tvoja agenda? Furati naprej zahode laži, posledica katerih so sesute države, miljoni beguncev in mrtvih, destabilizirana evropa ter posledično vzpon nacizma?
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Poldi112 ()
Samuel ::
Zgolj resnico, kolega. Kaj je pa tvoja agenda? Furati naprej zahode laži, posledica katerih so sesute države, miljoni beguncev in mrtvih, destabilizirana evropa ter posledično vzpon nacizma?
Una tema o ameriškem kolonianizmu je taki smeh, ki ga ta forum že dolgo ni videl. Sto let stare stvari nekih malih otočij, ki hočejo biti del ZDA, ta jim pa ne da. HAHAHAHAHA.
If you notice this notice, you will notice that this notice is
noticably not worth noticing.
noticably not worth noticing.
Poldi112 ::
Kolega, to je resen forum, kjer se pričakuje argumentirana debata. Si dobrodošel, da daš kontra argumente, tako tu, kot v temi o kolonializmu. Ampak očitno tega nisi sposoben, tako da lep dan še naprej.
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
TESKAn ::
Na žalost ga ZDA s koalicijo niso odstranile ko je bil čas, l. 1991.
'91ega, ja, ko ni več ubogal. Do takrat je bil OK. Če ne bi narobe razumel ZDA in ne bi mislil, da mu bodo dovolili vse, ne bi napadel Kuvajta in bi še danes imel enak status kot Savdska arabija. In Trump bi šel na obisk v Irak, se slikat z njim.
Uf! Uf! Je rekel Vinetou in se skril za skalo,
ki jo je prav v ta namen nosil s seboj.
ki jo je prav v ta namen nosil s seboj.
Samuel ::
Kolega, to je resen forum, kjer se pričakuje argumentirana debata. Si dobrodošel, da daš kontra argumente, tako tu, kot v temi o kolonializmu. Ampak očitno tega nisi sposoben, tako da lep dan še naprej.
Aha. Daj malo povej svoj pogled na spor Tito-Stalin in kdo je koga takrat (če smo že pri Vietnamu, gremo lahko še malo nazaj).
If you notice this notice, you will notice that this notice is
noticably not worth noticing.
noticably not worth noticing.
Fritz ::
Zgolj resnico, kolega. Kaj je pa tvoja agenda? Furati naprej zahode laži, posledica katerih so sesute države, miljoni beguncev in mrtvih, destabilizirana evropa ter posledično vzpon nacizma?
Una tema o ameriškem kolonianizmu je taki smeh, ki ga ta forum že dolgo ni videl. Sto let stare stvari nekih malih otočij, ki hočejo biti del ZDA, ta jim pa ne da. HAHAHAHAHA.
Jah te majhni otočki imajo 1/3 prebivalstva ZDA in še danes pomnijo kaj se je zgodilo. To pa je pomembno zato, ker se določeni deli zgodovine radi zakrivajo in so dokaz, da kljub nekaterim pozitivnim predsednikom in ukrepom, ZDA niso padle daleč od britanskega drevesa. Sicer je pa to najbolje razložil Kissinger in se kaže v še danes trajajoči realpolitiki v zunanjih zadevah ZDA.
A ker je tema o Siriji, dajmo omeniti predajo islamistov v Dumayru in prestop večjega števila borcev k SAA:
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein
Mr.B ::
Za sammy podobnim,
V googla vpiši : decadence USA
V googla vpiši : decadence USA
France Rejects Genocide Accusations Against Israel in Gaza,
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold
Pac-Man ::
'91ega, ja, ko ni več ubogal. Do takrat je bil OK. Če ne bi narobe razumel ZDA in ne bi mislil, da mu bodo dovolili vse, ne bi napadel Kuvajta in bi še danes imel enak status kot Savdska arabija. In Trump bi šel na obisk v Irak, se slikat z njim.
Moskva, 1986.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-sadda...
SZ, 1985
https://www.gettyimages.ca/detail/news-...
Huso+Brežnjev, 1972
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-mosco...
Huso+Kosyign, 1976
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-chair...
Huso v Moskvi, 1975
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-iraqi...
Huso v Moskvi, 1977
17 minut:
https://www.net-film.ru/en/film-8030/
Huso v Moskvi, 1978
Vem, da se podobne posnetke najde tudi z zahodnimi veljaki. Ampak ne prodajaj tipa, ki je bil redno v Moskvi ter je imel 3/4 vojske opremljene z vzhodno opremo, kot nekega zahodnega patsija.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
MadMicka ::
Fritz, nihče ne trdi, da so ZDA sploh in oh brez greha. Ampak da pa raje zaupaš diktaturi kot demokraciji, to pa je skregano z zdravo pametjo.
Poldi112 ::
Kolega, ne razumeš. Nihče ne zaupa diktaturi. Fora je samo, da nekateri zaupate demokraciji, kljub neštetim dokazom, da se jim ne da zaupati. A je res tako težko razumeti, da kritika zahoda ne pomeni hvale vzhoda?
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
leiito ::
Jaz tudi to težko razumem, da če ne navijaš za Olimpijo, si zihr fan Maribora. Poleg tega, a ni možno biti pro ZDA, pa hkrati dopuščati možnost, da niso nezmotljivi in da lahko v svojih zunanjepolitičnih potezah udarijo tudi mimo?
Poldi112 ::
Težko, glede na to da konstantno udarjajo mimo... Prej so pozitivna posredovanja izjema, ki potrjuje pravilo. Pač, odločili so se za imperij in posledično so barbari...
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Fritz ::
Fritz, nihče ne trdi, da so ZDA sploh in oh brez greha. Ampak da pa raje zaupaš diktaturi kot demokraciji, to pa je skregano z zdravo pametjo.
Že to, da o ZDA govoriš kot o demokraciji kaže veliko. Pri diktaturi vem na čem sem in ruski avtokratski režim me neposredno ne ogroža, ameriški korporatizem, ki se kaže v zatonu zahodne liberalne demokracije in delanje sranja po bližnjem vzhodu pa me ogroža, saj del tega pljuskne v Evropo na različne načine.
Zanimivo pa je, da je neka diktatura hotela ohraniti jedrsko ravnovesje kot garant za mir, demokracija pa je z zapustitvijo sporazuma o protibalističnih raketah vse skupaj zapeljala v nevarne vode.
A za debato o ZDA in Rusiji so druge teme, dajmo raje o Siriji.
https://twitter.com/PetoLucem/status/98...
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein
Samuel ::
Težko, glede na to da konstantno udarjajo mimo... Prej so pozitivna posredovanja izjema, ki potrjuje pravilo. Pač, odločili so se za imperij in posledično so barbari...
Ti sploh Hladne vojne ne razumeš, pa bi rad diskutiral.
If you notice this notice, you will notice that this notice is
noticably not worth noticing.
noticably not worth noticing.
Poldi112 ::
Brez skrbi kolega, ti bom tudi o vietnamu en dan kaj napisal, da se boš spet kaj naučil.
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Samuel ::
Brez skrbi kolega, ti bom tudi o vietnamu en dan kaj napisal, da se boš spet kaj naučil.
Midva nisma čisto nobena kolega, bimbo.
If you notice this notice, you will notice that this notice is
noticably not worth noticing.
noticably not worth noticing.
Poldi112 ::
Kolega, tu imaš pa celo prav. Edino ne morem mimo dejsta, da spet samo jočeš, argumentov pa nimaš. Pa lep dan še naprej.
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Samuel ::
Kolega, tu imaš pa celo prav. Edino ne morem mimo dejsta, da spet samo jočeš, argumentov pa nimaš. Pa lep dan še naprej.
Saj na nobeno stvar sploh ne odgovoriš. Na forumu je diskusija. Če želiš samo obveščat, potem uporabljaj twiter.
If you notice this notice, you will notice that this notice is
noticably not worth noticing.
noticably not worth noticing.
gus5 ::
Mr.B ::
Težko, glede na to da konstantno udarjajo mimo... Prej so pozitivna posredovanja izjema, ki potrjuje pravilo. Pač, odločili so se za imperij in posledično so barbari...
Ti sploh Hladne vojne ne razumeš, pa bi rad diskutiral.
Brez hladne vojne v.2.0 Bi trumpi težko opravičil, da ima vojaški budget skoraj tako velik kot luknjo... https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us... V bistvu budget zgleda nekako poenostavljeno po 1/4 . Verjetno bo 1/4 konec leta tudi minus.
Rusijo omenjaš, oziroma omenja, zgolj zato da se preveč Kitajski ne zameriš.
France Rejects Genocide Accusations Against Israel in Gaza,
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold
Poldi112 ::
No, saj takoj po koncu hladne vojne so izumili war on terror in cirkuška prestava teče naprej. Vmes so pa porušili rekord za svojo novo najdaljšo vojno. Btw, kaj je mission objetive v afganistanu? Winning so much, you'll get tired of winning? :)
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Mr.B ::
No za informacijo....... da vidimo ....... koliko casa......
Iran to replace US dollar with euro in financial reportswww.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2018/...
France Rejects Genocide Accusations Against Israel in Gaza,
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold