Forum » Problemi človeštva » Konflikt v Siriji
Konflikt v Siriji
Temo vidijo: vsi
Poldi112 ::
trolololololo .. kje piše, da hočejo ostati edina velesila?! Kaka buča neumna.
Sem ti točno napisal kje. Bi mi vzelo minutko da ti dam še link, pa ni vredno, ker ga itak ne boš prebral.
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Pac-Man ::
Report se ukvarja samo s tem, ali je napad bil ali ne, nikjer ne trdi, da je zanj kriv Assad. Niti, kolikor razumem, nimajo mandata ugotavljati kdo je kriv.
Sicer že napad 2013 kaže, da "zmerneži" znajo narest sarin po receptu z interneta:
The sarin was of low quality and contained impurities that indicate it was likely produced underground and not in a military plant
Kuhanje sarina je malo večji problem kot misliš. Tole je o iraškem programu, ampak sirski je bil tam-tam.
https://fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/cw/prog...
The sarin produced was also of poor quality (maximum purity of 60 per cent when solvent is taken into account) and so too could only be stored for short periods. In order to overcome this problem, Iraq resorted to a binary approach to weaponization: the precursor chemicals for sarin (DF 2/ and the alcohols cyclohexanol and isopropanol) were stored separately for mixing in the munitions immediately prior to use to produce a mixture of two G-series nerve agents, GB and GF. Given that the locally manufactured DF had a purity of more than 95 per cent and the alcohols were imported and of 100 per cent purity, this process could be expected to yield relatively pure sarin.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
c3p0 ::
9 zjutraj ni poldne. Kaj več jasno?
Ideja je bila "Vse je normalno, Ljubljeni Vodja se je po bombardiranju mirno odpravil na delo." So tudi neke špekulacije, da so ga sredi tedna z družino evakuirali v Iran.
No news. Razen, če je ob posnetku pisalo npr. posneto danes, pa tudi če, zeh. Očiten promo pan shot, s kamero na gimbalu.
Kaj sledi, analiza frizure in štetje sivih las in s tem datiranje točnega datuma posnetka? (uro že imamo, 12)
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: c3p0 ()
nsa_ag3nt ::
76 tomahawkov je priletelo sem (by Pentagon):
https://twitter.com/aldin_ww/status/985...
https://twitter.com/miladvisor/status/9...
Pentagon says 105 total weapons used against 3 targets in Syria:
- 76 missiles employed against first target.(Barzeh Research & Development center,Damascus)
- 22 missiles employed against second target.(Shinshar,Homs CS )
- 7 missiles employed against third target.(Homs CS)
https://twitter.com/aldin_ww/status/985...
https://twitter.com/miladvisor/status/9...
Pentagon says 105 total weapons used against 3 targets in Syria:
- 76 missiles employed against first target.(Barzeh Research & Development center,Damascus)
- 22 missiles employed against second target.(Shinshar,Homs CS )
- 7 missiles employed against third target.(Homs CS)
https://gizmodo.com/c/goodbye-big-five
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leiito ::
Report se ukvarja samo s tem, ali je napad bil ali ne, nikjer ne trdi, da je zanj kriv Assad. Niti, kolikor razumem, nimajo mandata ugotavljati kdo je kriv.
Sicer že napad 2013 kaže, da "zmerneži" znajo narest sarin po receptu z interneta:
The sarin was of low quality and contained impurities that indicate it was likely produced underground and not in a military plant
Kuhanje sarina je malo večji problem kot misliš. Tole je o iraškem programu, ampak sirski je bil tam-tam.
https://fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/cw/prog...
The sarin produced was also of poor quality (maximum purity of 60 per cent when solvent is taken into account) and so too could only be stored for short periods. In order to overcome this problem, Iraq resorted to a binary approach to weaponization: the precursor chemicals for sarin (DF 2/ and the alcohols cyclohexanol and isopropanol) were stored separately for mixing in the munitions immediately prior to use to produce a mixture of two G-series nerve agents, GB and GF. Given that the locally manufactured DF had a purity of more than 95 per cent and the alcohols were imported and of 100 per cent purity, this process could be expected to yield relatively pure sarin.
Tako zelo težko ni, da ga non state actorji ne bi zmogli skuhat, case in point Aum Shinrikyo:
Tokyo subway sarin attack @ Wikipedia
Ampak ta iz napada v Siriji 2013 je bil 60% z elementi, ki so tipično posledica človeških napak pri kuhanju, kar najbrž prej nakazuje domače kuharje kot sirsko vojsko.
Pac-Man ::
Seveda.
Kult v eni izmed najrazvitejših držav, ki je namensko lovil inteligentne & bogate po univerzah vs. par navadnih sircev. Plus velikostni razred razlike v proizvedenih količinah.
http://warincontext.org/2013/12/11/how-...
Hersh’s backyard sarin production appears to be concocted from fiction. The only non-state actor known to have engaged in large-scale sarin production was the Japanese cult, Aum Shinrikyo. They invested $30 million in this endeavor which included the creation of a production facility.
Even if the precursors are obtainable, anyone trying to make sarin in an at-home lab would face a challenge because, in many ways, the ingredients are more dangerous than the final product. An intermediate step in the production, for example, requires the use of hydrogen fluoride gas at a high temperature. Hydrogen fluoride is nasty stuff, and a lot of it is needed to make sarin. Even in its more stable liquid form, the smallest leak would destroy all the chemistry equipment and almost everything else in a modern kitchen. Anyone trying to combine these ingredients may kill or seriously harm himself and anyone nearby.
...
When Aum Shinrikyo then turned to producing its own stockpiles of chemicals in 1993, it soon ran into complex problems involved in dispersing nerve gas in ways that kill lots of people.
...
In Aum Shinrikyo’s first attempt to attack a rival group by spraying sarin gas from a moving van, Smithson notes, “the sprayer completely malfunctioned and sprayed backwards.” The second attempt ended up exposing the group’s security chief to the toxic nerve agent.
When the cult finally executed its climactic subway attack, its dispersal method of choice was poking holes in plastic bags with sharpened umbrella points. Noxious fumes then seeped from the bags into the subway cars.
The resulting chaos and death shocked the world.
...
But in the final analysis, she notes, 85 percent of the 5,510 people treated at Tokyo hospitals and clinics were simply worried, not harmed. Twelve ultimately died from sarin exposure, about 40 others were seriously injured, and slightly less than 1,000 were “moderately ill.
Kult v eni izmed najrazvitejših držav, ki je namensko lovil inteligentne & bogate po univerzah vs. par navadnih sircev. Plus velikostni razred razlike v proizvedenih količinah.
http://warincontext.org/2013/12/11/how-...
Hersh’s backyard sarin production appears to be concocted from fiction. The only non-state actor known to have engaged in large-scale sarin production was the Japanese cult, Aum Shinrikyo. They invested $30 million in this endeavor which included the creation of a production facility.
The plant was a free-standing three-story building, staffed by workers with chemistry and chemical-engineering expertise who designed and built proper process controls. It was a complex, expensive operation, and its production capacity was approximately 2 gallons of sarin per batch.Dan Kaszeta, a former officer in the U.S. Army Chemical Corps and former member of the U.S. Secret Service, estimates that the August attack would have required one ton of sarin — far more than Aum Shinrikyo was able to produce even with their dedicated facility.
Even if the precursors are obtainable, anyone trying to make sarin in an at-home lab would face a challenge because, in many ways, the ingredients are more dangerous than the final product. An intermediate step in the production, for example, requires the use of hydrogen fluoride gas at a high temperature. Hydrogen fluoride is nasty stuff, and a lot of it is needed to make sarin. Even in its more stable liquid form, the smallest leak would destroy all the chemistry equipment and almost everything else in a modern kitchen. Anyone trying to combine these ingredients may kill or seriously harm himself and anyone nearby.
...
When Aum Shinrikyo then turned to producing its own stockpiles of chemicals in 1993, it soon ran into complex problems involved in dispersing nerve gas in ways that kill lots of people.
...
In Aum Shinrikyo’s first attempt to attack a rival group by spraying sarin gas from a moving van, Smithson notes, “the sprayer completely malfunctioned and sprayed backwards.” The second attempt ended up exposing the group’s security chief to the toxic nerve agent.
When the cult finally executed its climactic subway attack, its dispersal method of choice was poking holes in plastic bags with sharpened umbrella points. Noxious fumes then seeped from the bags into the subway cars.
The resulting chaos and death shocked the world.
...
But in the final analysis, she notes, 85 percent of the 5,510 people treated at Tokyo hospitals and clinics were simply worried, not harmed. Twelve ultimately died from sarin exposure, about 40 others were seriously injured, and slightly less than 1,000 were “moderately ill.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenilo: Pac-Man ()
Mr.B ::
76 tomahawkov je priletelo sem (by Pentagon):
https://twitter.com/aldin_ww/status/985...
https://twitter.com/miladvisor/status/9...
Pentagon says 105 total weapons used against 3 targets in Syria:
- 76 missiles employed against first target.(Barzeh Research & Development center,Damascus)
- 22 missiles employed against second target.(Shinshar,Homs CS )
- 7 missiles employed against third target.(Homs CS)
Verjetno je bilo tveganje za B2 preveliko ali pa so se bali da bi bile civilne žrtve.
En B2 bi lahko nosil : 16 x 2,000 lb bomb vsaka cca 430 kg exploziva v kombinaciji recimo z GBU-28 300kg exploziva za uničevanje bunkerjev.
France Rejects Genocide Accusations Against Israel in Gaza,
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold
Pac-Man ::
https://twitter.com/Mr_Ghostly/status/9...
This is Aum's Sarin production facility. As you can clearly see it took more than a sink. You are dumb, your opinions on Sarin are to be discounted due to your inadvertent/purposeful idiocy.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2006/...
This is Aum's Sarin production facility. As you can clearly see it took more than a sink. You are dumb, your opinions on Sarin are to be discounted due to your inadvertent/purposeful idiocy.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2006/...
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
Pac-Man ::
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenilo: Pac-Man ()
Mr.B ::
Motherload:
http://files.cnas.org.s3.amazonaws.com/...
A niso omenjali VX ? hm, pa američani neznajo en korak dlje. Te domači mojsti soo pa sposobni to narediti...
France Rejects Genocide Accusations Against Israel in Gaza,
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold
leiito ::
Ni čisto tako, glede Sarina:
One way to examine the difficulty of underground sarin production is by examining the only case where this is known to happen: by the Aum Shinrikyo cult in Japan (source1, source2, source3). The cult started producing sarin and other nerve agents after failing to produce a biological weapon. They made significant investments in lab equipment intended to produce 70 tons of sarin. In practice, technical problems and government investigations limited their total production to less than 100 kg over their year and a half of operation.
However, Syrian opposition groups may have some significant advantages over Aum Shinrikyo:
Much weaker government supervision. Treating the opposition as a non-state actor would be inaccurate, as they have full control of some areas of Syria, making them the de-facto state there. This is critical: Aum Shinrikyo had stopped their process several times and destroyed products because of police investigations.
Possible access to former Chemical Warfare professionals from Iraq, Libya or Syria.
Access to lab technology that is 18 years more advanced. This was specifically addressed in this detailed analysis of Aum's chemical program, which estimated that current lab equipment would make a similar effort much cheaper. Quotes:
"Such an effort might be well disguised or established on a smaller scale, however, by taking advantage of the development over the last decade of powerful, low-cost micro-production chemical capabilities".
"... the chemical industry has, over the last decade, introduced modular and flexible designs where reactions may occur in a solvent-free environment, at increased concentrations and in much smaller and less expensive facilities".
International allies. This could prove very helpful when trying to obtain regulated chemicals or lab equipment.
Internet access, which makes information on sarin production widely available (e.g. details of Aum Shinrikyo's process). This can significantly accelerate production - Aum Shinrikyo scientists spent much of their time in trial and error.
This indicates that sarin is not a chemical that "anyone can make in their kitchen", as is often claimed. However, an organization with sufficient funding and trained professionals can produce large quantities of sarin within several months.
http://whoghouta.blogspot.si/2013/10/sa...
Lahko pokažeš kak drug dokaz za svojo trditev, da je Ghouta 13 Assadovo delo, v tem reportu tega ni. In če dokaz obstaja, zakaj potem Mattis in DIA 5 let kasneje razlagajo, da dokazov ni?
One way to examine the difficulty of underground sarin production is by examining the only case where this is known to happen: by the Aum Shinrikyo cult in Japan (source1, source2, source3). The cult started producing sarin and other nerve agents after failing to produce a biological weapon. They made significant investments in lab equipment intended to produce 70 tons of sarin. In practice, technical problems and government investigations limited their total production to less than 100 kg over their year and a half of operation.
However, Syrian opposition groups may have some significant advantages over Aum Shinrikyo:
Much weaker government supervision. Treating the opposition as a non-state actor would be inaccurate, as they have full control of some areas of Syria, making them the de-facto state there. This is critical: Aum Shinrikyo had stopped their process several times and destroyed products because of police investigations.
Possible access to former Chemical Warfare professionals from Iraq, Libya or Syria.
Access to lab technology that is 18 years more advanced. This was specifically addressed in this detailed analysis of Aum's chemical program, which estimated that current lab equipment would make a similar effort much cheaper. Quotes:
"Such an effort might be well disguised or established on a smaller scale, however, by taking advantage of the development over the last decade of powerful, low-cost micro-production chemical capabilities".
"... the chemical industry has, over the last decade, introduced modular and flexible designs where reactions may occur in a solvent-free environment, at increased concentrations and in much smaller and less expensive facilities".
International allies. This could prove very helpful when trying to obtain regulated chemicals or lab equipment.
Internet access, which makes information on sarin production widely available (e.g. details of Aum Shinrikyo's process). This can significantly accelerate production - Aum Shinrikyo scientists spent much of their time in trial and error.
This indicates that sarin is not a chemical that "anyone can make in their kitchen", as is often claimed. However, an organization with sufficient funding and trained professionals can produce large quantities of sarin within several months.
http://whoghouta.blogspot.si/2013/10/sa...
Khan Shaykhun.
Tu imaš, 78 strani:
https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/Fac...
Lahko pokažeš kak drug dokaz za svojo trditev, da je Ghouta 13 Assadovo delo, v tem reportu tega ni. In če dokaz obstaja, zakaj potem Mattis in DIA 5 let kasneje razlagajo, da dokazov ni?
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: leiito ()
Pac-Man ::
Much weaker government supervision. Treating the opposition as a non-state actor would be inaccurate, as they have full control of some areas of Syria, making them the de-facto state there.
Ja, seveda. Sem prebral motherload. Imeli so nesrečo v proizvodnji, policija ni smela izvest racije, ker ni bilo kaznivega dejanja. Vzeli so vzorce tal v okolici, našli unikatne indikatorje za sarin, ampak nič, ker proizvodnja bojnih strupov ni (bila) ilegalna. Poleg tega jih niso razsuli niti po akciji na tokijski podzemni, morili in zastrupljali so še naprej. Vodje kulta so nastopali celo v talk showih.
Aum Shinrikyo @ Wikipedia
On the morning of 20 March 1995, Aum members released a binary chemical weapon, most closely chemically similar to sarin nerve agent, in a coordinated attack on five trains in the Tokyo subway system
...
On 30 March 1995, Takaji Kunimatsu, chief of the National Police Agency, was shot four times near his house in Tokyo and was seriously wounded. While many suspected Aum involvement in the shooting, the Sankei Shimbun reported that Hiroshi Nakamura is suspected of the crime, but nobody has been charged.[43]
On 23 April 1995, Hideo Murai, the head of Aum's Ministry of Science, was stabbed to death outside the cult's Tokyo headquarters amidst a crowd of about 100 reporters, in front of cameras. The man responsible, a Korean member of Yamaguchi-gumi, was arrested and eventually convicted of the murder. His motive remains unknown.
On the evening of 5 May, a burning paper bag was discovered in a toilet in Tokyo's busy Shinjuku station. Upon examination it was revealed that it was a hydrogen cyanide device which, had it not been extinguished in time, would have released enough gas into the ventilation system to potentially kill 10,000 commuters.[38] On 4 July, several undetonated cyanide devices were found at other locations in the Tokyo subway.
...
Shoko Asahara was finally found hiding within a wall of a cult building known as "The 6th Satian" in the Kamikuishiki complex on 16 May and was arrested.[38] On the same day, the cult mailed a parcel bomb to the office of Yukio Aoshima, the governor of Tokyo, blowing off the fingers of his secretary's hand.
Possible access to former Chemical Warfare professionals from Iraq, Libya or Syria.
Japonci so imeli svoje univerzitetno izobražene kemike, aktivno so lovili tudi Ruse s poznavanjem kemičnega in biološkega orožja.
Na vsak način se trudite nekaj vzpostavit, ampak ne gre in ne gre.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
Fritz ::
Lani ob tem času je bila identična situacija, ZDA objavijo, da menjava režima v Siriji ni več cilj, sledi kemični napad, sledi ameriški napad, letos potem Mattis prizna, da nimajo dokazov, da je napad izvedel Assad. Valjda toliko kritičnega razmišljanja premoreš, da dopuščaš vsaj možnost, da je napad izvedel kdo drug, ki je imel, enako kot lani, za razliko od Assada dejanski motiv.
Za napad aprila 2017, po katerem so bombardirali letališče, so imeli dokaze. To so kasneje potrdili tudi ZN in OPCW. Manjkalo jim je dokazov za nekatere druge (potencialne) primere uporabe kemičnega orožja, kjer ni bilo kazenskih bombardiranj.
O tem sva že govorila. Ampak ker si agitprop trol z IQjem manjšim od dolžine kurca v cm, se vrtimo v nekih brezveznih krogih.
A drugega kot žalitev nimaš? V času napadov dokazov ni bilo. VS OZN ni odobril napadov, ne po Khan Sheykounu in ne sedaj. Civilisti umirajo v neposredni soseščini, tako v Izraelu kot v Jemnu. Se o tem razpravlja v VS OZN, se napada odgovorne države.
Da ne omenjam tega, da so dokazi iz Khan Sheykouna bili in so še danes - posredni. Tako kot so dokazi iz Ghoute posredni. Če bodo iz OPCW potrdili, da se je napad zgodil in da ima sarin iz mesta napada podpis sarina iz zalog SAA, potem bom verjel.
Pa še glede mednarodnega sodišča. To sodišče že obstaja (ICT) a ker ga vse velike sile ne priznavajo, je malce licemerno nabijati, da naj takšno sodišče sodi sirskim zločincem in drugim zločincem 'manj vrednih držav', zločincem večvrednih držav pa ne sme soditi. Ali si Bush in Blair morebiti ne zaslužita obtožnice za zločinski napad in uničenje iraške države z množico žrtev na podlagi falsificiranih 'dokazov' in brez mandata VS OZN?
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein
Pac-Man ::
V Alepu gre za belo čelado (glej majico), v Idlibu je pa verjetno drug človek.
Posredni?
Ostanki sovjetske letalske bombe za kemično polnjenje, sledi sarina po sirskem receptu, posnetki letal nad mestom s timestampom, čeprav SyAAF zanika aktivnost...kaj zate ni posredno?
Da ne omenjam tega, da so dokazi iz Khan Sheykouna bili in so še danes - posredni.
Posredni?
Ostanki sovjetske letalske bombe za kemično polnjenje, sledi sarina po sirskem receptu, posnetki letal nad mestom s timestampom, čeprav SyAAF zanika aktivnost...kaj zate ni posredno?
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenilo: Pac-Man ()
Pac-Man ::
Bilo je malo več kot 60l.
https://twitter.com/Kliness75/status/98...
East-Ghouta has been fully captured by syrian regime alongside West Ghouta (in 2016) Where is the supposed rebel sarin factory ?
Here is what the Aum sarin factory looked like in Japan It only managed to produce 60L of bad quality sarin
800L were used in E+W Ghouta in 2013...
Here is what the Syrian regime sarin/CW factories look ("looked") like (Pictures taken by OPCW team).
Note that the Syrian regime declared to OPCW 27 Chemical Weapons Production Facility and 12 Chemical Weapons Storage Facilities .
https://www.armscontrol.org/files/Panel...
https://twitter.com/Kliness75/status/98...
East-Ghouta has been fully captured by syrian regime alongside West Ghouta (in 2016) Where is the supposed rebel sarin factory ?
Here is what the Aum sarin factory looked like in Japan It only managed to produce 60L of bad quality sarin
800L were used in E+W Ghouta in 2013...
Here is what the Syrian regime sarin/CW factories look ("looked") like (Pictures taken by OPCW team).
https://www.armscontrol.org/files/Panel...
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
leiito ::
Ker iz drugod pa niso mogli pripeljat sarina? Pa tisto leto so v Turčiji ujel zmerneže s sarinom v žepih, ni brez precedensa. Pa še enkrat, sarin sirske in drugih state actorjev je čist, profesionalna proizvodnja, sarin v Ghouti je bil 60%, za Assada pa vemo, da nikoli ne pomisli, da bi na ta način maskiral sledi, ali prelepil oznake na helikopterjih.
Pa še tretjič, če so stvari tako jasne, zakaj Američani sami priznavajo, da ni dokazov, da je za Ghouto 13 kril Assad?
Da ne omenjamo, da ste še par postov nazaj trdili, da je OPCW report ugotovil Assadovo krivdo, v reportu pa o tem nič.
Če ste po vsem tem prepričani, da je kriv Assad..., hvala bogu, da pri nas nimamo sistema porote.
Pa še tretjič, če so stvari tako jasne, zakaj Američani sami priznavajo, da ni dokazov, da je za Ghouto 13 kril Assad?
Da ne omenjamo, da ste še par postov nazaj trdili, da je OPCW report ugotovil Assadovo krivdo, v reportu pa o tem nič.
Če ste po vsem tem prepričani, da je kriv Assad..., hvala bogu, da pri nas nimamo sistema porote.
Fritz ::
Bistveno je, da smo ugotovili double standards in da je še Paco v pomanjkanju argumentov priznal, da lahko države same posegajo, če ocenijo, da so ogrožena človeška življenja...ker to pač počno 'naši'. S tem smo torej legitimirali tudi ruska posredovanja v Gruziji in Ukrajini 
V Siriji pa...
V Siriji pa...
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenilo: Fritz ()
Mr.B ::
Bistveno je, da smo ugotovili double standards in da je še Paco v pomanjkanju argumentov priznal, da lahko države same posegajo, če ocenijo, da so ogrožena človeška življenja...ker to pač počno 'naši'. S tem smo torej legitimirali tudi ruska posredovanja v Gruziji in Ukrajini
V Siriji pa...
Pocak da iran posreduje v jemnu, zaradi humanitarne krize
. France Rejects Genocide Accusations Against Israel in Gaza,
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Mr.B ()
Fritz ::
Bistveno je, da smo ugotovili double standards in da je še Paco v pomanjkanju argumentov priznal, da lahko države same posegajo, če ocenijo, da so ogrožena človeška življenja...ker to pač počno 'naši'. S tem smo torej legitimirali tudi ruska posredovanja v Gruziji in Ukrajini
V Siriji pa...
Pocak da iran posreduje v jemnu, zaradi humanitarne krize
Iranci in Rusi že bolj tenko piskajo z denarjem in vojaško tehniko, ne vem kako bodo še kaj veliko posegali. Tisto kar večina ne jemlje v obzir je, da bodo ta dvojna merila zahoda in sesuvanje avtoritete OZN imela posledice, ko bo Kitajska začela širiti področje vpliva.
Drugače me pa v Siriji sedaj skrbi kako naprej. Assadu so sesuli zaloge in proizvodnjo kemičnega orožja. Kaj le bo vrgel na IS-ovce, v prihajajoči ofenzivi na Yarmouk, ko bodo sile SAA tik pred zmago, ko pa revež nima več kemije...
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein
Mr.B ::
Fritz, tole pravijo glede irana... https://tradingeconomics.com/iran/forec...
Potem lahko prodajas samo se une pravljice o spontani ustaji proti rezimu, s strani iranske opozicije, ki je ze ob prvi ustaji v prejsnjem stoletju uporabljala umore kot legitimno sredstvo. Enako kot to dela izrael. Pa je na nasi strani.
Ps... http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle...
Potem lahko prodajas samo se une pravljice o spontani ustaji proti rezimu, s strani iranske opozicije, ki je ze ob prvi ustaji v prejsnjem stoletju uporabljala umore kot legitimno sredstvo. Enako kot to dela izrael. Pa je na nasi strani.
Ps... http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle...
France Rejects Genocide Accusations Against Israel in Gaza,
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Mr.B ()
Smrekar1 ::
Ker iz drugod pa niso mogli pripeljat sarina? Pa tisto leto so v Turčiji ujel zmerneže s sarinom v žepih, ni brez precedensa. Pa še enkrat, sarin sirske in drugih state actorjev je čist, profesionalna proizvodnja, sarin v Ghouti je bil 60%, za Assada pa vemo, da nikoli ne pomisli, da bi na ta način maskiral sledi, ali prelepil oznake na helikopterjih.
Prelepljanje oznak na helikopterjih je bolj jalovo, če si edini, ki tam ima helikopterje, se ti ne zdi?
Za ostalo je tako, je nemogoče, da so v Ghouti uporabili neko malo bolj škart šaržo?
Pravzaprav je to precej bolj verjetno, kot da so upornikom dostavili škart sarin in so se zaplinili, vendar nekega omembe vrednega odziva potem ni bilo. Če že greš delat tak napad pod krinko ga izkoristiš na polno (c.f. obstreljevanje Mainile, 1939).
Shelling of Mainila @ Wikipedia
Pa še tretjič, če so stvari tako jasne, zakaj Američani sami priznavajo, da ni dokazov, da je za Ghouto 13 kril Assad?
Link?
peburuchug ::
Assadu so sesuli zaloge in proizvodnjo kemičnega orožja.
Ja Asad ima industrijsko proizvodnjo kemičnega orožja. Kakšne bedarije ste ovce pripravljene požreti.
Sedaj menda ni bil klor ampak sarin, kar naredi tisto razkuževanje z vrtno cevjo še bolj smešno.
Očitno jim je jasno da občinstvo nima več dosti v glavi da bi bilo sposobno logičnih misli in se jim ni več treba truditi.
Fritz ::
Sarkazem detektor ti ne dela...
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein
peburuchug ::
Sarkazem detektor ti ne dela...
Čist možno.
Sedaj pa me zanima, ko bo naslednjič klavec Trump naročil svojim policajem da naj na ulici usmrtijo kakšnega nedolžnega afro američana na poti v šolo, a bo Putin v sodelovanju s Sirijo in Iranom upravičen do preciznega bombnega napada na Ameriko?
Fritz ::
Po Pac-manovi logiki bodo do tega upravičeni, je pa seveda nespametno napadati jedrsko silo in vojaško najmočnejšo državo na svetu.
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein
Pac-Man ::
Ker iz drugod pa niso mogli pripeljat sarina? Pa tisto leto so v Turčiji ujel zmerneže s sarinom v žepih, ni brez precedensa. Pa še enkrat, sarin sirske in drugih state actorjev je čist, profesionalna proizvodnja, sarin v Ghouti je bil 60%, za Assada pa vemo, da nikoli ne pomisli, da bi na ta način maskiral sledi, ali prelepil oznake na helikopterjih.
Ne, ni. Saj veš, da so zadevo predali OPCW za uničenje? Tu gre za binarni sarin, ker niso uspeli doseči dovolj velike čistosti za dolgotrajno hrambo.
peburuchug je izjavil:
Sedaj pa me zanima, ko bo naslednjič klavec Trump naročil svojim policajem da naj na ulici usmrtijo kakšnega nedolžnega afro američana na poti v šolo, a bo Putin v sodelovanju s Sirijo in Iranom upravičen do preciznega bombnega napada na Ameriko?
Ne, ti se boš čutil upravičenega delati butaste primerjave.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenilo: Pac-Man ()
peburuchug ::
Pac-Man ::
Za začetek Trump policajem ne more naročiti, da nekoga usmrtijo.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
VaeVictis ::
Čist tako informativno, kaj se zgodi, če žrtve Sarina premikaš brez rokavic?
Ali si v smrtni nevarnosti ali ne?
Pa še tole glede tega konflikta in raketiranja, od kje državam pravica, da raketirajo druge države?
Ali si v smrtni nevarnosti ali ne?
Pa še tole glede tega konflikta in raketiranja, od kje državam pravica, da raketirajo druge države?
DarkSite ::
Čist tako informativno, kaj se zgodi, če žrtve Sarina premikaš brez rokavic?
Pa še tole glede tega konflikta in raketiranja, od kje državam pravica, da raketirajo druge države?
V tem primeru, ko nekdo zaplinja svoj narod potem to ni potrebno. Tisti, ki so proti temu pa naj se malo zamislijo.
Pac-Man ::
Pa še tole glede tega konflikta in raketiranja, od kje državam pravica, da raketirajo druge države?
Vzamejo si jo.
Par raket brez žrtev za kaznovanje uporabe kemičnega orožja je precej boljše od leta trajajoče vojne zaradi namišljenih fašistov v Ukrajini.
peburuchug je izjavil:
Ja Asad ima industrijsko proizvodnjo kemičnega orožja. Kakšne bedarije ste ovce pripravljene požreti.
Tole je asadova linija za proizvodnjo prekurzorjev sarina, dipšit.
https://www.armscontrol.org/files/Panel...
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenilo: Pac-Man ()
Smrekar1 ::
Čist tako informativno, kaj se zgodi, če žrtve Sarina premikaš brez rokavic?
Ali si v smrtni nevarnosti ali ne?
Če si roke kmalu po tem umiješ z milom in vodo bolj ne kot ja. Sicer bi priporočal rokavice, ampak biodostopnost sarina skozi kožo je nekaj redov velikosti manjša kot pri vdihavanju. Če so žrtve preživele vdihavanje jih lahko relativno varno premikaš okoli tudi brez rokavic, samo roke si moraš pogosto umivati in pričakovati kakšne mile simptome (slinjenje in podobno).
Rokavice so vseeno priporočljive.
Pa še tole glede tega konflikta in raketiranja, od kje državam pravica, da raketirajo druge države?
V dotičnem primeru gre za očitno kršitev veljavne mednarodne pogodbe.
Destruction of Syria%27s chemical weapons @ Wikipedia
VaeVictis ::
Čist tako informativno, kaj se zgodi, če žrtve Sarina premikaš brez rokavic?
Ali si v smrtni nevarnosti ali ne?
Če si roke kmalu po tem umiješ z milom in vodo bolj ne kot ja. Sicer bi priporočal rokavice, ampak biodostopnost sarina skozi kožo je nekaj redov velikosti manjša kot pri vdihavanju. Če so žrtve preživele vdihavanje jih lahko relativno varno premikaš okoli tudi brez rokavic, samo roke si moraš pogosto umivati in pričakovati kakšne mile simptome (slinjenje in podobno).
Rokavice so vseeno priporočljive.
Hvala za odgovor, vedno se človek nekaj novega nauči.
Pa še tole glede tega konflikta in raketiranja, od kje državam pravica, da raketirajo druge države?
V dotičnem primeru gre za očitno kršitev veljavne mednarodne pogodbe.
Destruction of Syria%27s chemical weapons @ Wikipedia
Tale kemični napad je dokazan iz neodvisnih organizacij, ali verjamemo na lepe oči!?
Smrekar1 ::
peburuchug ::
Pac-Man ::
Thanks for proving my point.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
peburuchug ::
leiito ::
Čist tako informativno, kaj se zgodi, če žrtve Sarina premikaš brez rokavic?
Pa še tole glede tega konflikta in raketiranja, od kje državam pravica, da raketirajo druge države?
V tem primeru, ko nekdo zaplinja svoj narod potem to ni potrebno. Tisti, ki so proti temu pa naj se malo zamislijo.
Pa nas moti samo zaplinjanje ali tudi ubijanje kot tako? Je huje, če pobijaš svoj narod, kot če drugega? Kje je meja, ko interveniramo, število žrtev, število žrtev iz lastnega naroda, vsak napad s plinom?
peburuchug ::
Pa nas moti samo zaplinjanje ali tudi ubijanje kot tako? Je huje, če pobijaš svoj narod, kot če drugega? Kje je meja, ko interveniramo, število žrtev, število žrtev iz lastnega naroda, vsak napad s plinom?
Kako si drzneš kaj takega sploh spraševati nevernik! Religija zapoveduje da ne smeš dvomiti v kar ti povejo po TV in pride iz neznanih virov v ušesa naših gospodarjev!
Če rečejo po TV da je to kar naj bi Asad naredil zlobno, nimaš kaj postavljati takih vprašanj, ampak moraš misliti točno to kot je zapovedano!
Pac-Man ::
Hehe, suprajz.
https://twitter.com/UK_OPCW/status/9858...
#OPCW Director Gen briefs Exec Council on his Fact Finding Mission’s deployment to 🇸🇾 to investigate #Douma chem weapon attack. OPCW arrived in Damascus on Saturday. Russia & Syria have not yet allowed access to Douma. Unfettered access essential. Russia & Syria must cooperate.
https://twitter.com/BillNeelyNBC
BREAKING Reports emerging that Chemical Inspectors are not being allowed access to site of #Syria poison gas attack in Douma. OPCW Dir. Gen. has briefed that Russia and Syria have refused for now, according to 1 diplomat. #SyriaStrike
The US Envoy to the world’s watchdog body on chemical weapons says Russia may have tampered with the site of a poison gas attack in #Douma. He says the Russians may have visited the site- “it’s our concern they may have tampered with it to thwart the fact finding investigation”
Chemical inspectors from OPCW are in Damascus. UK envoy to body says Dir Gen has briefed diplomats that no access to poison gas site has yet been granted. US concerned that Russia, which controls the area, has tapered with site. OPCW meeting to discuss.
UK Envoy to Chemical Weapons watchdog OPCW says “Reliable intelligence indicates that Syrian military officials coordinated what appears to be the use of chlorine in Douma on 7 April. No other group could have carried out this attack.” #syriastrike
Klasičen scenarij. Zavlačujemo in nategujemo.
https://twitter.com/UK_OPCW/status/9858...
#OPCW Director Gen briefs Exec Council on his Fact Finding Mission’s deployment to 🇸🇾 to investigate #Douma chem weapon attack. OPCW arrived in Damascus on Saturday. Russia & Syria have not yet allowed access to Douma. Unfettered access essential. Russia & Syria must cooperate.
https://twitter.com/BillNeelyNBC
BREAKING Reports emerging that Chemical Inspectors are not being allowed access to site of #Syria poison gas attack in Douma. OPCW Dir. Gen. has briefed that Russia and Syria have refused for now, according to 1 diplomat. #SyriaStrike
The US Envoy to the world’s watchdog body on chemical weapons says Russia may have tampered with the site of a poison gas attack in #Douma. He says the Russians may have visited the site- “it’s our concern they may have tampered with it to thwart the fact finding investigation”
Chemical inspectors from OPCW are in Damascus. UK envoy to body says Dir Gen has briefed diplomats that no access to poison gas site has yet been granted. US concerned that Russia, which controls the area, has tapered with site. OPCW meeting to discuss.
UK Envoy to Chemical Weapons watchdog OPCW says “Reliable intelligence indicates that Syrian military officials coordinated what appears to be the use of chlorine in Douma on 7 April. No other group could have carried out this attack.” #syriastrike
Klasičen scenarij. Zavlačujemo in nategujemo.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
peburuchug ::
Mr.B ::
Hehe, suprajz.
https://twitter.com/UK_OPCW/status/9858...
#OPCW Director Gen briefs Exec Council on his Fact Finding Mission’s deployment to 🇸🇾 to investigate #Douma chem weapon attack. OPCW arrived in Damascus on Saturday. Russia & Syria have not yet allowed access to Douma. Unfettered access essential. Russia & Syria must cooperate.
https://twitter.com/BillNeelyNBC
BREAKING Reports emerging that Chemical Inspectors are not being allowed access to site of #Syria poison gas attack in Douma. OPCW Dir. Gen. has briefed that Russia and Syria have refused for now, according to 1 diplomat. #SyriaStrike
The US Envoy to the world’s watchdog body on chemical weapons says Russia may have tampered with the site of a poison gas attack in #Douma. He says the Russians may have visited the site- “it’s our concern they may have tampered with it to thwart the fact finding investigation”
Chemical inspectors from OPCW are in Damascus. UK envoy to body says Dir Gen has briefed diplomats that no access to poison gas site has yet been granted. US concerned that Russia, which controls the area, has tapered with site. OPCW meeting to discuss.
UK Envoy to Chemical Weapons watchdog OPCW says “Reliable intelligence indicates that Syrian military officials coordinated what appears to be the use of chlorine in Douma on 7 April. No other group could have carried out this attack.” #syriastrike
Klasičen scenarij. Zavlačujemo in nategujemo.
Po drugi strani...
The Chemical Weapons Convention outlaws the production or stockpiling of chemical weapons.
In ugotovi kdo ni med podpisnik
Syria is a signatory of the treaty. Egypt, Israel
, North Korea and South Sudan are the only nonsignatory nations. France Rejects Genocide Accusations Against Israel in Gaza,
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold
Smrekar1 ::
Po drugi strani...
The Chemical Weapons Convention outlaws the production or stockpiling of chemical weapons.
In ugotovi kdo ni med podpisnik
Syria is a signatory of the treaty. Egypt, Israel
Kolikor vem članstvo v tem ni obvezno. Sirija se je k temu zavezala in zavez ne izpolnjuje. Če katera druga država ni naredila te zaveze to o Siriji ne pomaga prav nič.
Poldi112 ::
Za začetek Trump policajem ne more naročiti, da nekoga usmrtijo.
Res je, ne policajem, ampak vojski.
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
peburuchug ::
Če so burgerji po navodilih izraela res zbombardirali tovarno kemičnega orožja, potem moramo gotovo že imeti poročila kako je v radijo 20km okoli te tovarne vse zaplinjeno? A so bile slučajno rakete s črnimi luknjami ki so ta plin posesalcale vase?
Mr.B ::
Po drugi strani...
The Chemical Weapons Convention outlaws the production or stockpiling of chemical weapons.
In ugotovi kdo ni med podpisnik
Syria is a signatory of the treaty. Egypt, Israel
Kolikor vem članstvo v tem ni obvezno. Sirija se je k temu zavezala in zavez ne izpolnjuje. Če katera druga država ni naredila te zaveze to o Siriji ne pomaga prav nič.
Se strinjam tudi ni obvezno biti član jedrskega kluba.
Toliko o nivoju tvojega dosega argumenta.
France Rejects Genocide Accusations Against Israel in Gaza,
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold
To accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold
Poldi112 ::
Čist tako informativno, kaj se zgodi, če žrtve Sarina premikaš brez rokavic?
Pa še tole glede tega konflikta in raketiranja, od kje državam pravica, da raketirajo druge države?
V tem primeru, ko nekdo zaplinja svoj narod potem to ni potrebno. Tisti, ki so proti temu pa naj se malo zamislijo.
To, kar zagovarjaš, je divji zahod, posledica katerega so miljoni mrtvih. Ki jih imate na vesti ti in tebi podobni, ki ploskate, ko zahod bombardira "barbare" v srednji vek.
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.
DarkSite ::
Nope.
Brez posredovanja bi se kemično orožje širilo. V prihodnosti bi zato vojne potekale s kemičnim in nuklearnim orožjem. To je treba preprečiti. Rusija, Kitajska, Iran delajo vse v smeri, da bi se to orožje očitno širilo. Ne obsojajo tistih(Asada), ki to uporabljajo oz jim celo pomagajo. Očitno te države podpirajo to orožje. In tisti, ki podpirate te države posledično podpirate širjenje in uporabo tega orožja. Torej ste morilci oz kemični morilci. V prihodnosti boste nuklearni morilci. In take je treba ustaviti.
Brez posredovanja bi se kemično orožje širilo. V prihodnosti bi zato vojne potekale s kemičnim in nuklearnim orožjem. To je treba preprečiti. Rusija, Kitajska, Iran delajo vse v smeri, da bi se to orožje očitno širilo. Ne obsojajo tistih(Asada), ki to uporabljajo oz jim celo pomagajo. Očitno te države podpirajo to orožje. In tisti, ki podpirate te države posledično podpirate širjenje in uporabo tega orožja. Torej ste morilci oz kemični morilci. V prihodnosti boste nuklearni morilci. In take je treba ustaviti.
Samuel ::
peburuchug je izjavil:
US concerned that Russia, which controls the area, has tapered with site.
Ekskluzivni posnetek ruske vohunke ki uničuje sledi za sarinskim plinom!!!!1!
Putin BTFO pacman was rajt!
Samo svinjaš temo in nič drugega.
peburuchug je izjavil:
Če so burgerji po navodilih izraela res zbombardirali tovarno kemičnega orožja, potem moramo gotovo že imeti poročila kako je v radijo 20km okoli te tovarne vse zaplinjeno? A so bile slučajno rakete s črnimi luknjami ki so ta plin posesalcale vase?
Zato ker se te strupe najlažje uniči z ognjem. Zaradi tega overkill z viška tomahawkov.
If you notice this notice, you will notice that this notice is
noticably not worth noticing.
noticably not worth noticing.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Samuel ()