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Ukrajina Part II

Ukrajina Part II

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Pac-Man ::

Pac-Man ::

Če koga zanima, zakaj je v Ukrajini počilo

https://twitter.com/AlexPanchenko2/stat...

Not a hooker, just daughter of a mobster friend of #Ukraine Pres. #Yanukovych - who made her a JUDGE. #whyEuromaidan



Answering DM inquiries: she's Justice Viktoriya Dzharty (Джарти), father is Vasyl Dzharty. 1/2

(late) Vas. Dzarty aka Vasya B/ball Bat was #Makiivka mobster B4 #Yanukovych et.al. made him Mayor> #Ukraine MP> #Crimea Auton. PMinr. 2/2


november 2012

http://en.censor.net.ua/news/225624/dzh...

By decision of the Economic Court of Kyiv (where 32-year-old Viktoriia is a Deputy Chairman) the property of state-owned Nikopol Pipe Plant goes to Oscar a company affiliated with Valerii Omelchenko and Vadym Ermolaiev, reports NR.

Yermolaiev - is a known Dnipropetrovsk oligarch (Alef corporation). But Omelchenko is better known as the husband of Victoria Dzharty, writes Forbes. On October 28 Valerii Omelchenko was elected to Parliament from the Party of Regions in district № 55 (Donetsk oblast), with 69.3% of votes. The elected official in his program emphasized the social standards, and in his declaration boasted revenues in Austria, cars (Land Rover, BMW X6, Lexus RX, Bentley Continental), land, and apartment.

...

Another former head of the State Property Fund Oleksandr Bondar is not even surprised by the transaction.

"This is a typical Donetsk scheme. It has been around for a while - it is traditional when a place is just taken place through a court decision. There are plenty examples like Nikopol Pipe Plant. And there is no doubt that this is a profitable entity, that's why Dzharty's family close to the President's family has taken over," says Bondar.

...

"This is a continuation of the tough redistribution of property - it is taken away from some oligarchs and pocketed by others. And the fact that the court of Dzharty's daughter makes such a ruling, is also not surprising. It is as they say a family business, and everyone knows how corrupt the judiciary system in Ukraine is," concluded Oleksandr Bondar.

Pac-Man ::

sestrična, januar 2013

http://crimea.comments.ua/news/2013/01/...

Crimean traffic cops tighten investigate a traffic accident involving the deputy chief of the Crimean regional customs. Anna Kolodyazhnaya, lost control expensive foreign car, flew into the car Dnepropetrovsk, which now can not be restored. In an accident suffered at least 3 people, including a little girl.

...

May 2, initiate a criminal case was refused, but after complaints to the prosecutor and the victims Crimean Glaucus police three months later the case was initiated, but not against Kolodyazhni, and in fact an accident. Kolodyazhnaya in runs as a witness.

Levashov family understands that the perpetrator of the accident will no longer be "found" and the case can and does "get lost."

According to the publication, at the official's senior relatives. Sources in the customs claim that it is necessary niece to the late Prime Minister of Crimea Basil Dzharty, and, accordingly, the sister of his daughters, one of whom, Victoria, - the deputy chairman of the economic court of Kiev.

By the way, as the newspaper writes, "the Lexus", driven by the deputy head of Customs riding, rather expensive "toy" - in the showroom is from 577 to 620 thousand hryvnia.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: Pac-Man ()

Brane22 ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:

Če koga zanima, zakaj je v Ukrajini počilo

https://twitter.com/AlexPanchenko2/stat...


Aja ? Zato je počilo ? Zato je bilo toliko skandiranja tipa "pobijmo Ruse" ?

"Kdor ne skače, ni Ukrajinec" je bilo iz naše perspektive smešno gledati, saj sedaj lahko lepo vidimo, kako dela potujoči propagandistični oddelek.

Pa saj zdaj imaš recimo novi Panama leaks, kjer je omenjen tudi Porošenko & Co.

Če so šli zaradi tiste fafle v spremembe, kaj počne nova ekipa v mutnih poslih ?

Pac-Man ::

Brane22 je izjavil:

Aja ? Zato je počilo ? Zato je bilo toliko skandiranja tipa "pobijmo Ruse" ?


Kak vir bi bilo lepo podat.

Je bilo pa precej nagnusnega skandiranja na ruski strani

Donetsk, 13. marec 2014



@16:20

https://vimeo.com/132589651

Brane22 ::

Pa saj si imel kupe tovrstnih linkov in filmčkov iz prvega dela te teme.

Tudi "slavni", sedaj že pokojni "poslanci" so imeli nastope z orožjem v parlamentu, imel si filmčke eksekucij itd. Nenazadnje tudi umor mislim da RTjeve ekipe. Pravzaprav dva, le da je v drugem bil pokončan "samo" snemalec mislim. Ne da se mi vse to iskat še enkrat.

Tarzan ::

Kako lahko Donetsk in Lugansk klasificiraš za teroriste? Ukrajina jih. Saj res, še ena definicija terorista prosto po Prešernu. O tem govorim - ne o tem da je jajo terorist, da ima vsak svojo definicijo, ki mu ustreza in klasificira kako marginalno skupino da so teroristi. Tudi tebi je enostavno verjetni, da se Ukrajina bori proti terorizmu in zavračaš vsako idejo, da je terorist recimo nek albanec v Makedoniji na kosovu ali v srbiji, ki dela na projektu velike Albanije. In takih primerov je malo morje. Defnicija terorizma je tako bogokletno ohlapna, da notri z malo truda lahko zbašeš vsakega. Niti ne rabi resno poprijeti za orožje, že samo protestiranje je stalo življenja kup Kurdov v Turčiji. Zate so Kurdi v Turčiji teroristi, zame so reveži, kjer je edina možnost, da se zoperstaviš neprimerljivo močnejšemu tiranu, ki te želi iztrebiti, da s podobnimi akcijami, kot so jih izvedli pred vojaškimi cilji (nad vojaki, ne civilisti), vsaj poskušaš brcniti nazaj. Tipični primer asimetričnega bojevanja in za povrh še kako legitimen. Daleč od terorizma.

Smrekar1 ::

Tarzan je izjavil:

Kako lahko Donetsk in Lugansk klasificiraš za teroriste?


Če uporabimo tvojo definicijo:

Terorist je nekdo, ki zaradi političnega cilja med ljudmi seje strah.

so kar lepo teroristi. Ampak govora je o novi ruski Nazionalni gardi, ne o ruskih jurišnikih, ki so od aprila 2014 naprej masovno emigrirali v Ukrajino in se od takrat naprej borijo za svojo 'rodno grudo'.

Zate so Kurdi v Turčiji teroristi,


Aja? Prosim, citiraj tiste moje izjave, ki tole tezo potrjujejo.

Veliko sreče! :D

morbo ::

#RuAF Su-24 doing a "simulated attack" on a US Navy 'Donald Cook' in the #BalticSea in ~70km from Russian coast

Če bi američani letali okrog Ruske ladje parkirane par deset km od ZDA obale, se nihče nebi pritoževal. Sicer se tukaj vidi razliko med profesionalno vojsko civilizirane države in stepskimi hordami turškega sultana, ki je ukazal napad na RU letalo zaradi 5-sekundnega preleta meje.

Smrekar1 ::

morbo je izjavil:

#RuAF Su-24 doing a "simulated attack" on a US Navy 'Donald Cook' in the #BalticSea in ~70km from Russian coast

Če bi američani letali okrog Ruske ladje parkirane par deset km od ZDA obale, se nihče nebi pritoževal.


Saj se tudi nad ruskimi preleti ne bi, če bi rusi spoštovali osnovne varnostne ukrepe. To sem že napisal.

There are often encounters between U.S. ships and aircraft and their Russian counterparts, but as long as they are conducted safely, there is minimal concern. This time, however, there were incidents that led the U.S. crew to conclude that the incidents were unsafe.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/13/polit...

Zahvali se profesionalizmu ameriške mornarice, da se tele provokacije ne končajo tragično.

Sicer se tukaj vidi razliko med profesionalno vojsko civilizirane države in stepskimi hordami turškega sultana, ki je ukazal napad na RU letalo zaradi 5-sekundnega preleta meje.


Stepe imajo rusi precej več, poleg tega so bili precej dalj časa pod hordami. Zato se zdaj čudijo, ko so po nekaj deset kršitvah zračnega prostora in številnim opozorilom, naj tega ne počno več, sicer bodo turki streljali, izgubili letalo.

Mimogrede, ruska vojska je profesionalno ene toliko, kot je rusija civilizirana država.



Povedano drugače, ni.

windigo ::

Smrekar1 ::

windigo je izjavil:

Eni bi tolkli po (proxy) vojnih bobnih, drugi pa so rahlo zaskrbljeni.


tl,dr: Ruska vojska je postala več kot le kup kmetavzov, ki ga lahko premagaš praktično brez lastnih izgub.

Težava ni v tem, da lahko ruska vojska zmaga kakšne večje vojne. Pogojev za to nimajo. Lahko pa zadajo približno 1 mrtvega na 5-10 lastnih izgub, kar je po standardih NATO že nesprejemljivo. V 1. Zalivski vojni je bilo razmerje ~1:100, oz. povedano drugače, Rusija izgubi proti osameljeni Nizozemski. To je razmerje, ki zavezništvu zagotavlja trajno varnost.

NATO ima namreč edino pravilno strategijo - imeti moraš toliko moči, da nihče ne pomisli, da bi šel v vojno s tabo. Vojska se primarno ne uporablja zato, da zmaga v vojnah, temveč zato, da s svojo močjo vojno prepreči.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenil: Smrekar1 ()

morbo ::

Smrekar1 je izjavil:

Rusija izgubi proti osameljeni Nizozemski.

Achievement unlocked: master armchair general :)

Zakaj potem NATO ni poslal Nizozemske porazit Libijskega diktatorja in njegovo precej patetično vojsko? EU cicibani so rabili ZDA rokico in pomoč v strelivu, da so sploh lahko porazili majhno vojsko tretjega sveta, z par desetletji zastarelo opremo in doktrino. :))

Tarzan ::

Največja fora je, da gre v vsem v Ukrajini pa ravno za neke vrste reprizo nikoli povsem dokončane 2. svetovne vojne. Ta vojna je v celotni evropi pustila kup šizofrenih narodov, ki jih skupaj drži pohlep, spomin na klavnico in nekaj malega civiliziranosti. Spomin bledi, civiliziranost ne gre nikamor, celo stagnira, pohlep je pa večji kot kadar koli.

morbo ::

Ok, da malo prekinim WW2 offtopic...

Te dni so potekale obsežne vojaške vaje v DNR / LNR:



VIDEO 2

VIDEO 3

VIDEO 4

VIDEO 5

VIDEO 6

Smrekar1 ::

morbo je izjavil:

Ok, da malo prekinim WW2 offtopic...

Te dni so potekale obsežne vojaške vaje v DNR / LNR:



VIDEO 2

VIDEO 3

VIDEO 4

VIDEO 5

VIDEO 6


Zanimivo koliko opreme so uspeli sešvasati v domačih garažah. Čudno, da porečje reke Don ni bilo najbogatejša regija na svetu, ko pa ima toliko domačega talenta.

ZaphodBB ::

Smrekar ti tud nič ne veš - revni so zato ker jim je Kiev vse pokradel.
"Naši dedje so se borili za to, da lahko odločamo
o lastni usodi - ne o usodi drugih ljudi." -jype

Pac-Man ::

http://en.censor.net.ua/resonance/38174...

I have been long gathering information on activities of the gang of Russian mercenaries of Wagner. It is one of the most combat-ready military units of the Russian occupational troops, organized as a private official military company, which enrolls soldiers of the Russian Federation. In other words, a legalized terrorist unit for dirty business.
Wagner receives the latest weapons. For instance, armored vehicles 'Vystrel,' which serve in the Russian army only, were redeployed to the Donbas for this unit exclusively. The Russian Federation awards killed militants from Wagner units with RF state decorations, and they enjoy all the benefits as soldiers.

...

"After the hot stage of the conflict ended, Wagner's people gained notoriety for darker deeds. Wagner's people are said to be the ones behind the wave of political killings in the Luhansk republic - shootings of Ishchenko, Mozgovoy, Bednov and Dremov. It is believed that the PMC acts mostly in the "Luhansk People's Republic" ("LPR") and serves the master of the republic, Plotnitskiy, and those behind him - but it does not report to him, of course. Wagner makes the Luhansk republic a puppet formation; charismatic and popular leaders prevented that."

Russian website "Fontanka" published a very informative article on Wagner and found a blurred image of the officer. According to the Russian medium, he is:



"Reserve Lieutenant Colonel Dmitry Utkin, aged 46. A professional military. Prior to 2013, he commanded Pechory-based, Pskov Oblast, 700th separate special forces unit of the 2nd spetznaz brigade of the GRU of the Ministry of Defense. After being dismissed for reserve, he worked in Moran Security Group - a private company providing services of guarding ships in pirate-endangered areas. When MSG's managers organized "Slavic Corps" in 2013 and sent it to Syria to protect Bashar al-Assad, he took part in this ill-fated expedition. Since 2014 he has been a commander of his own unit, called after his call sign, "Wagner's PMC."

"He is well-known for his devotion to the aesthetics and ideology of the Third Reich, that's where his call sign comes from - the name of the visionary composer.

...

The fact that "Fontanka"s article is authentic and that it was Wagner who killed terrorist leaders has been confirmed by a high-profile source of the enemy. In February 2016, before the article in "Fontanka" was published, a well-known Russian mercenary Stanislav Shustrov, call sign Engineer, former artillery commander of 'Prizrak' mercenary unit, wrote about Wagner on his Facebook page. Shustrov announced that the contract murder of Bednov was committed by Wagner:

"Wagner's name is Dmitry. … We participated in several operations together. He got a fragment to his liver in summer 2014, many of his guys were killed. After recovering, Wagner returned to service. The unit increased a bit. Many of sabotage operations in winter of 2014-2015 in the "LPR" were his people's job.

"I do not possess correct information about his (Bednov's) killing. It is highly probable that Wagner's people participated in it. They were given an order as the only combat-ready unit (in this matter) …"



...

Information about Wagner shows and proves that the Donbas war was started by the groups of the 'green men' - professional Russian military mercenaries. These mercenaries are real rulers of the Donbas, while plotnitskiys and zakharchenkos are only a cover for Russian secret services. Wagner's killers would eliminate anyone messing with the Kremlin puppeteers of the "people's republics." Nothing personal - just business.

Pac-Man ::

več:

http://www.interpretermag.com/fontanka-...

Fontanka, an independent Saint Petersburg newspaper, has published an investigation into the activities and deaths of Russian “private military contractors” (PMCs) in Syria and Ukraine.

The paper studied a group known as ChVK (PMC) Wagner, formed out of the remnants of the “Slavonic Corps,” a mercenary unit that fought ignominiously in Syria in 2013.

While Fontanka, which first reported on the Slavonic Corps debacle that year, recently reported that members of that unit had returned to Syria, it was not until today that anyone claimed to have documentary evidence of the Wagner group’s operations.

Fontanka profiles several fighters with the unit and charts their activities from training centers in Russia to Ukraine’s Lugansk Region and the Syrian town of Palmyra.

...

According to Fontanka, the only documentary evidence of the existence of ChVK Wagner comes in the striking form of documents signed by President Vladimir Putin himself.

Wagner fighters were awarded medals for bravery and courage, some posthumously, for their actions in both Ukraine and Syria.

...

Two men posthumously honored were Andrei Yelmeyev and Andrei Shreiner. Both were buried on March 6, 2015, in Togliatti. Both were 43 years old and both were reportedly killed on January 28, 2015. A local news site reported that they had been killed fighting with separatist militias in Ukraine



But Fontanka reports that while both were indeed killed in the battle for Debaltsevo, neither of the men were fighting with the separatist militias or the Russian regular forces. Both names in fact appeared on the lists of those awarded the Order of Courage for their service in ChVK Wagner on May 9, 2015.



Fontanka also asked veterans of the Wagner unit to comment on photos released by ISIS, purportedly taken from the body of a Russian fighter, killed with three others, in a battle near Palmyra this month.

One of the men in the photos was identified as a fighter with the call-sign ‘Shlang,’ who was killed in December last year by an anti-personnel mine.

Shlang is one of the men in the photo below, which Fontanka‘s experts have identified as being taken in the Summer of 2014 in the Starobeshevo area of Ukraine’s Donetsk region:



//BMHO bi bila to lahko tudi Sirija pozimi

That ISIS has produced photos taken in Ukraine from a phone seized in Syria suggests that fighters from Wagner, or at least another unit, be it mercenary or regular, were indeed killed near Palmyra.

...

Not all of the men in the unit are Russian. One platoon is formed of Serbs, led by Davor Savicic, a citizen of Bosnia and Herzegovina and old comrade of Utkin’s who fought in the Slavonic Corps. Savicic was convicted and sentenced to 20 years for involvement in a bombing in Bosnia in 2001. The conviction was subsequently overturned on technical grounds, however.


...

The high loss rate in the group can be explained by what the former fighters describe as World-War-Two-style tactics.

...

Such tactics continued in Syria:

“What are we doing there? We go as the first wave. We direct the aircraft and artillery, push back the enemy. After us merrily go the Syrian special forces, and then Vesti-24 [a Russian state TV station] together with other Russian state television crews with cameras at the ready to interview them.”

ChVK Wagner fighters receive 240,000 rubles a month (around US $3,500).Fontanka asked why volunteers were signing up for a fifty-fifty chance of being wounded or killed for such a salary.

One returning fighter replied:

“Have you been traveling outside your Petersburg recently? Beyond Moscow and Petersburg there’s no work anywhere. If one is lucky – 15-20 thousand a month isn’t considered bad, but the price of food – it is as if we live in Antarctica. There’s a queue in Molino.”


http://www.novosti.rs/vesti/naslovna/re...

Ko je komandir ruskog bataljona "Vagner". Davor Savičić rođen u Doboju. Bio u JSO, na KiM 1999 godine. Savičić tvrdi da se u Rusiji bavi građevinom

U BORBAMA za oslobođenje drevnog grada Palmire u Siriji učestvovao je i Srbin Davor Savičić (36) iz Doboja, nekadašnji pripadnik Jedinice za specijalne operacije (JSO) i veteran rata na Kosovu i Metohiji 1999. godine. On je u Siriji komandovao jednim vodom misterioznog bataljona “Vagner” - neformalne ruske plaćeničke vojske. Kao komandir borbene grupe, kako pišu strani mediji, on je aktivno učestvovao u borbama protiv džihadista Islamske države na Bliskom istoku.

...

Ovi ljudi su, kako se objašnjava u Rusiji, nevidljivi u ratnim dnevnicima i izvan su svakog formalnog lanca komandovanja. Koriste samo kodna imena, a naređenja za operacije dobijaju isključivo usmeno i bez ikakve formalne procedure. Zbog toga ih u Rusiji nazivaju ratnicima duhovima. Bataljon “Vagner” nije deo ruskih vojnih i policijskih snaga, a nema ga ni u registru agencija za pružanje usluga obezbeđenja.

Savičić je državljanin Bosne i Hercegovine, a više od dve godine stalno je nastanjen u Rusiji, u gradu Himki, gde živi od građevinskih radova. Prema pisanju peterburške “Fontanke”, međutim, Savičić je borac “Vagnera”, u kome komanduje jednim internacionalnim vodom. Kodno ime mu je “Volf” i pod svojom komandom ima i četvoricu boraca Srba, koji su tokom 2014. i 2015. godine došli iz Legije stranaca.

Za Savičićevo ime domaća javnost je čula 2001. godine kada je optužen kao jedan od učesnika nezapamćenog zločina u Beranama, kada je od podmetnutog eksploziva u kafe-baru “Holivud” ubijeno šest osoba. Meta napada bio je Beranac Duško Martinović, a osim njega u eksploziji su stradala i njegova dva brata, dvoje zaposlenih, kao i jedan od učesnika likvidacije. Posle prvostepene maksimalne zatvorske kazne, sud je 2009. godine Savičića oslobodio krivice u ovom slučaju. Bosanski mediji tvrdili su 2014. godine i da je postao deo međunarodne grupe koja za novac ratuje u istočnoj Ukrajini.

U razgovoru za “Novosti”, međutim, Savičić negira da je kao pripadnik odreda “Vagner” učestvovao u borbama u Siriji.

- Bavim se građevinom, zbog čega sam i došao u Rusiju - tvrdi Savičić, i naglašava da je na ratištu u Lugansku proveo svega nekoliko dana.



Posle kratkotrajnog boravka na frontu i ranjavanja, kako ističe, njegova ratna epizoda je završena.

Pac-Man ::

Odličen podcast o nastanku DNR, posnet v okviru Reutersovega projekta War College. Intervjujan je Antony Butts, ki je bil v Donetsku od začetka aprila 2014 in to v samem centru dogajanja. Sicer traja 25 min, ampak še enkrat, mus poslušanje, če te zadeva vsaj malo zanima.

https://soundcloud.com/war_college/who-...

za TL;DL lenobe pa

Ukrajina je (bila) shithole, lokalci so želeli poustvarit USSR, Rusija pa je konflikt na vse možne načine podpihovala.

Pac-Man ::

Tole v glavnem pokriva obdobje do konca maja 2014, ko je na sceno prišel ruski bataljon Vostok. Tu je konec ljudskega upora&anarhije in začetek direktnega moskovskega nadzora nad DNR.

http://www.rferl.org/content/vostok-bat...

Rumors that battle-hardened Chechen fighters from Russia's notorious Vostok Battalion are active in eastern Ukraine have been swirling for weeks.

They unexpectedly materialized on May 29 when dozens of heavily armed men identifying themselves as members of the Vostok Battalion stormed the separatists' headquarters in central Donetsk, evicting the motley band of pro-Russian rebels that had occupied the building since March.

The brazen raid, conducted in broad daylight, has plunged the region into new uncertainty. The emergence of such a widely recognizable Russian military structure in eastern Ukraine has also raised questions about Moscow's role in the conflict.


...

The Vostok fighters in Donetsk say they want to put an end to the rebels' looting of groceries from local supermarkets.

Their raid on the separatists' headquarters, however, is widely seen as an attempt by a group of Moscow-connected separatists to rid the insurgency of ragtag elements and assert control over eastern Ukraine.

This group is led by Igor Girkin, who goes by the pseudonym "Strelkov" and commands the separatists' military operations in Slovyansk, and Aleksandr Borodai, the prime minister of the self-proclaimed "Donetsk People's Republic."

Girkin -- who the Kyiv government says is a Russian military intelligence officer -- has himself taken a tough stand against indiscipline within rebel ranks, recently ordering the execution of two looters.

The Donetsk raid was obviously aimed at shaming the militants who had established quarters there, analysts say.

Vostok fighters actually led Western journalists through the reclaimed building, vigorously breaking down doors and showing off the groceries, cigarettes, and alcohol looted by the previous occupiers.

This adds weight to the notion that Moscow, after tacitly fueling separatist unrest for weeks, is now eager to rein in the spiraling anarchy unleashed in eastern Ukraine.


angleški podnapisi



Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: Pac-Man ()

Pac-Man ::

CIA igra dolgo igro? Ali pa gre za FSB?

Paul Manafort @ Wikipedia

Paul J. Manafort is an American lobbyist and political consultant.

...

Manafort was an adviser to the presidential campaigns of George H.W. Bush in 1988,[3] Robert Dole in 1996,[4] George W. Bush, and John McCain. In March 2016 he joined the presidential campaign of Donald Trump to lead Trump's "delegate-corralling" efforts.[5] In April 2016, Manafort gained control of an expanded $20 million budget, hiring decisions, advertising, and media strategy.[6]

...

He also worked as an adviser on the Ukrainian presidential campaign of Viktor Yanukovych[9] even as the U.S. government (and McCain) opposed Yanukovych because of his ties to Russia's Vladimir Putin.[4]
...
Borys V. Kolesnikov, Yanukovich’s campaign manager, said the party hired Manafort after identifying organizational and other problems in the 2004 elections, in which it was advised by Russian strategists. [9]

In 2010, under Manafort's tutelage, the opposition leader put the Orange Revolution on trial, campaigning against its leaders' management of a weak economy.
...
Yanukovych owes his comeback in Ukraine's presidential election to a drastic makeover of his political persona and, people in his party say, that makeover was engineered in part by his American consultant, Manafort.[9]




Tole zgoraj je Donald J. Drumpf. :)

September 2007:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/world...

Once a divisive figure reviled by some here as a shady reactionary and Kremlin pawn, Prime Minister Viktor F. Yanukovich has turned into arguably the nation’s most popular politician.

On the eve of critical parliamentary elections, Mr. Yanukovich now calls himself an anticorruption reformer who wants to move Ukraine closer to the West.

...

Though the strategist, Paul J. Manafort, has sought to remain behind the scenes, his handiwork has been evident in Mr. Yanukovich’s tightly organized campaign events, in his pointed speeches and in how he has presented himself to the world.

...

On the stump this week, Mr. Yanukovich has repeatedly declared that he is the only politician who can bring stability to a nation weary of political turmoil.

“I understand your dreams,” he told supporters at a rally, before echoing a line from former President Bill Clinton. “I feel your pain, and I share in your desire to make Ukraine a land of opportunity.”

He added, “I want you to know who I am, not who my opponents try to say that I am.”

...

Mr. Manafort, whose partner, Rick Davis, manages the presidential campaign of Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, said Thursday that he would not discuss his advice to Mr. Yanukovich or how much he is being paid. But Mr. Manafort said he believed that the prime minister was an outstanding leader who had been badly misunderstood.

“The West has not been willing to move beyond the cold war mentality and to see this man and the outreach that he has extended,” said Mr. Manafort


:rofl:

...

Mr. Yanukovich was introduced to Mr. Manafort by Rinat Akhmetov, a Yanukovich supporter and billionaire industrialist who is Ukraine’s richest man. Mr. Manafort was then advising Mr. Akhmetov on improving the image of his companies.

To undercut Mr. Yanukovich’s more polished campaign, his opponents have charged that oligarchs like Mr. Akhmetov are simply buying a better candidate.

“They are just packaging him in a new cover and educating him in some techniques to use,” said Hryhoriy Nemyria, a Tymoshenko adviser. “It’s the same Soviet and post-Soviet political culture.”

morbo ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:

Tole v glavnem pokriva obdobje do konca maja 2014, ko je na sceno prišel ruski bataljon Vostok.

Mhm.. Bataljona Vostok in Zapad sta bila razpuščena l.2008, po koncu vojne v J.Osetiji / Gruziji.

Pac-Man ::

Povej tem





Pač so ga rekonstituirali oz. reciklirali ime. Niso bili samo Čečeni, večinoma je šlo za bolj ali manj uradne turiste iz Rusije z blagoslovom in podporo Kremlja.

Od 8. minute paradirajo po centru Donetska, 25. maj 2014.



Čečeni. Kadirovci.

Na 12:45 imaš pa Zakarčenka v funkciji Mišice.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: Pac-Man ()

morbo ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:

Pač so ga rekonstituirali oz. reciklirali ime. Niso bili samo Čečeni, večinoma je šlo za bolj ali manj uradne turiste iz Rusije z blagoslovom in podporo Kremlja.

Uradno ne. Prostovoljcev ali najemnikov iz Rusije je bilo polno, ampak da je bil to celoten bivši bataljon (kot implicirajo UA viri) pa ne verjamem. Zloglasno ime čečenskega bataljona je fanj uporabno za PR.

Kremelj ni bil ravno navdušen nad samopašno raboto Strelkova in prijateljev, ne? Kdo jim je potem "zrihtal celoten bataljon" že tako zgodaj v konfliktu?

Pac-Man ::

Od 8:00, skandiranje "Vostok! Vostok!...."



http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukrai...



In an interview with Reuters, Alexander Khodakovsky, commander of the Vostok Battalion, acknowledged for the first time since the airliner was brought down in eastern Ukraine on Thursday that the rebels did possess the BUK missile system and said it could have been sent back subsequently to remove proof of its presence.


Vostok patchi, isto kot zastava zgoraj

http://dunyanews.tv/en/World/263316-Ukr...



Thousands of men and women gathered on Lenin square in east Ukraine s main rebel-held city Donetsk on Monday to celebrate a Soviet-era holiday and pay hommage to their fallen fighters.
...
Commanders in camouflage from the Vostok battalion of the pro-Russian separatist forces gathered on the stage to celebrate what they described as "free Donetsk".

"I remember the birth of this movement when there were only 10 people. Now the square is jam packed," said commander Alexander Khodakovsky.


Tole bodo pa diverzije banderitov s stencili po Donetsku?

http://ukraineinvestigation.com/chechen...





https://twitter.com/truth_seeker_11/sta...



armbandi:

http://ukraineinvestigation.com/chechen...



Pravijo, da so bataljon Vostok, imajo patche in zastave, kaj še želiš?

BTW, DNR ima oz. je imel tudi punitivni bataljon "Varjag", z istim imenom in zastavo kot kolaborantska enota v okviru SS.





Jebiga, naključje. :D

morbo ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:

Pravijo, da so bataljon Vostok, imajo patche in zastave, kaj še želiš?

Reciklaža imena? Vostok l.2008 je bil 100% lokalen čečenski sestav. Ni ne-verjetno da so l.2014 bivši člani tega bataljona prišli bojevat na Donbas, je pa neverjetno da je to isti (uraden ruski) sestav, ki je bil razpuščen 6 let prej.

No saj Kijev je imel na svoji strani tudi čečenske prostovoljce - islamiste iz bataljona Dudajev. Slednji so sicer popušili v Debalcevu, tako da ne vem ali še obstajajo.

Starodavni ::

No v glavnem, ko že gremo nazaj k temi o Ukrajini, me zanima, kakšno je trenutno stanje, ker imam občutek da "napredek" ruske paramilice v Ukrajini domala stoji. Imajo Krim in tisti dve ukrajinsko-ruski regiji, niso pa napredovali, da bi povezali vse to s Krimom.

A bo sploh katera od teh strani šla naprej ali pa bo obtičala. Ukrajina dvomim, da ima dovolj sredtev, da bi lahko začela napade na to regijo, kaj pa ruska podpora tem "upornikom", je usahnila ali še prihaja.

Ker imam občutek, da je Putin preusmeril velik del omejenih sredstev od tam proti Siriji, ker je bil položaj bolj resen kot pa Ukrajina. Na kocki je bila izguba obeh pristanišč v Siriji in tega Putin ni mogel dovoliti.

ZbitaGrinta ::

za spor med rusijo in ukrajino so itak krivi američani in EU na tak način se gredo američani vojno ki pa potihoma hočejo da bi prerasla v pravo vojno med rusijo in EU to bi bil namreć za njih velik biznis pa še daleč stran od njihovega ozemlja.
Živa resnica:https://www.rt.com/usa/339768-us-marines-aircraft-aging/

Smrekar1 ::

ZbitaGrinta je izjavil:

za spor med rusijo in ukrajino so itak krivi američani in EU na tak način se gredo američani vojno ki pa potihoma hočejo da bi prerasla v pravo vojno med rusijo in EU to bi bil namreć za njih velik biznis pa še daleč stran od njihovega ozemlja.


V glavnem so krivi interesi kremeljskih oblastnikov, ki želijo obdržati nakradeno oblast in denar. Morda boš nekoč razumel.

windigo ::

Tole dogajanje se mi zdi simptomatično za ukrajinske oblasti

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/m...

Za TL;DR-erje: oblast ob obletnici preprečuje dostop do kraja masakra Rusov pred dvema letoma v Odesi, ker se menda bojijo neredov. Da bi zagotovili red in mir, urno napotijo tja bataljon Azov, ki naj bi umiril situacijo.

Mene pa samo zanima, zakaj se takemu početju ne reče terorizem (ker prezenca Azova na takšnem kraju in ob takšnem času je kaj drugega kot ustrahovanje, čisti teror, le da v tem primeru oblasti).

Smrekar1 ::

windigo je izjavil:


Mene pa samo zanima, zakaj se takemu početju ne reče terorizem (ker prezenca Azova na takšnem kraju in ob takšnem času je kaj drugega kot ustrahovanje, čisti teror, le da v tem primeru oblasti).


Zato, ker je Azov sedaj v rednem sestavu ukrajinske Nacionalne Garde in ni več samostojen protiruski bataljon. Če bi prebral članek bi to vedel.

windigo ::

Smrekar1 je izjavil:

windigo je izjavil:


Mene pa samo zanima, zakaj se takemu početju ne reče terorizem (ker prezenca Azova na takšnem kraju in ob takšnem času je kaj drugega kot ustrahovanje, čisti teror, le da v tem primeru oblasti).


Zato, ker je Azov sedaj v rednem sestavu ukrajinske Nacionalne Garde in ni več samostojen protiruski bataljon. Če bi prebral članek bi to vedel.

In kakšna je tukaj razlika v kontekstu povedanega? Ker je ustrahovanje tu legalizirano, to ni več ustrahovanje? Ali ker je Azov zdaj v sestavi Nacionalne Garde, to pomeni, da v njem ni več steklih radikalnih skrajnežev, ki jih ne ustavi niti veriga, kaj šele povelje?

morbo ::

Smrekar1 je izjavil:

Zato, ker je Azov sedaj v rednem sestavu ukrajinske Nacionalne Garde in ni več samostojen protiruski bataljon. Če bi prebral članek bi to vedel.

Hitlerski bataljon zdaj deluje kot režimski rabelj za zatiranje svobode govora in protestov ob obletnici pokola v Odesi? Hmmmm, nobene kritike iz tvoje strani? Mogoče ker niso v službi Putlerja, ampak Kijeva? :))

btw, VSU minometni bataljon razbit v povračilnem ognju, Marinka, par dni nazaj. Precizen zadetek, direkt v garažo ;)

Smrekar1 ::

windigo je izjavil:


In kakšna je tukaj razlika v kontekstu povedanega?


Da tja niso poslali fašističnih prostovoljcev, temveč sestav Nacionalne garde, ki je namenjen tudi preprečevanju takih izgredov. Razlika je med uporabo paravojaških sil za zatiranje upornikov (kot v Siriji, Čečeniji, ... Moskvi?), ki bi jo dejansko lahko označili za terorizem in med legalnim, legitimnim načinom preprečevanja izgredov.

Povedano drugače, razlika v kontekstu povedanega je primerljiva z razliko med dnevom in nočjo.

morbo je izjavil:

[
Hitlerski bataljon zdaj deluje kot režimski rabelj za zatiranje svobode govora in protestov ob obletnici pokola v Odesi?


Pokol v Odesi ni bil pokol, temveč požar. Po videih sodeč ga je zanetil ruski plačanec znotraj stavbe. Verjetno je bila zadeva nesreča, ki so jo povzročili pijani Ivani. Druga, še vedno zelo verjetna možnost pa je, da jo je zanetil zares fanatičen privrženec ruskega nacional-socializma, ki je žrtvoval sebe in nekaj deset sonarodnjakov, da bi s tem vzbudil sonarodnjake k uporu za ruski nacional-socializem, ki ga fura Kremelj.

Če ti uspe izločiti ti dve možnosti (veliko sreče!) lahko začneš iskati dokaze, da je šlo za pokol. Kot sem rekel, veliko sreče. :)

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenil: Smrekar1 ()

morbo ::

Z apologeti kijevskega terorja nad lastnimi državljani je debata brezvezna. Še vedno pa nisi nič pokomentiral legitimizacije dokazano Hitlerskega bataljona Azov, glede na to da si imel veliko za povedat čez rusko nacionalno gardo, ki je po tvojih besedah bojda "isto kot SS".

Jarno ::

Ukrajincev jaz ne bi demoniziral. Da imajo fruitcake bataljon je res zanimivo, ampak na nacionalni ravni imajo pravico izvoliti pro zahodno vlado.
Tudi Vučić je pro EU in ohranja dobre stike z Rusijo in Kitajsko, npr.
Vidi pa se, da so državo šli branit huligani, medtem, ko se večini skoraj hebe za usodo države in so nevarno pasivni.
Če bi se učili iz zgodovine, bi se slikali s Franjotovo sliko...

windigo ::

Jarno je izjavil:

Ukrajincev jaz ne bi demoniziral. Da imajo fruitcake bataljon je res zanimivo, ampak na nacionalni ravni imajo pravico izvoliti pro zahodno vlado.

Problem nastane, ko takle fruitcake bataljon pošljejo v Odeso na obletnico masakra, v katerem so v prvi vrsti sodelovali prav ti isti ali pa vsaj podobni fruitcaki, delat red in mir. Čemur sicer vsi ostali rečemo ustrahovanje oz. teror.

Problem Ukrajine pa je že praktično od začetka v političnem sistemu in neenotnosti, da tisti, ki uspe napaberkovat nekje 52% glasov (in redko je večina šla bistveno čez ta odstotek), odloča o vsem in pelje stvari tudi v smer, ki jih drugih 48% sploh ne odobrava, politika opleta sem ter tja, zdaj z Rusi, zdaj z EU, drugi pa zraven delajo oranžne in rdeče(belo-plave) revolucije in kontrarevolucije in se zdaj še streljajo med sabo. Oligarhom (je) to večinoma ustreza(lo).

papasmrk ::

Tole kopičenje NATO vojske na meji z Rusijo ne pomeni nič dobrega. Upam, da gre samo za napenjanje mišic in da se ne pripravlja invazija na Rusijo.

AC_DC ::

Ni drugega, zlobna Rusija hoče vojno !

fikus_ ::

Pozabimo da gre za Nato, USA in Rusijo. Recimo, da imamo državo X, ki ima/zagotavlja zavezništvo z Y in državo Z. Država Z izgubi tamponsko cono v katero se širi Y in X.
Sedaj mi pa povejte/napišite, kako se bi bi počutili v koži države Z?! Pa pozabite na število vojakov v X,Y in Z.
Prosim odgovor samo na to predpostavko, brez raznih če . . . in drugih filozofiranj!

Pa da se razumemo, nisema kakšen ...fil oz. ...fob ene ali druge strani, ampak poskušam realno gledati na stanje.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: fikus_ ()

RedDrake ::

Ja, pozabimo na imena.
Samo vsekakor dodaj v opis okoliščin še dejstvo da ima država Z v državi Y manjšino, ki jo lahko po precedensu iz države K vojaško zaščiti z okupacijo in da ima država Y strašno slabe izkušnje z državo Z že zadnjih 100 let. Ker to je razlog, da Države E,L in L težijo k namestivam sil držav X in sploh v participaciji v zavezništvu.

Kot rečeno, če bi nam država I grozila z mejo pri Logatcu, because of reasons, bi bili veseli kake države X, ki bi k nam napotila malce vojske, da se situacija umiri in da apetiti slučajno ne dosežejo kritične točke ...

Smrekar1 ::

fikus_ je izjavil:

Pozabimo da gre za Nato, USA in Rusijo. Recimo, da imamo državo X, ki ima/zagotavlja zavezništvo z Y in državo Z. Država Z izgubi tamponsko cono v katero se širi Y in X.
Sedaj mi pa povejte/napišite, kako se bi bi počutili v koži države Z?! Pa pozabite na število vojakov v X,Y in Z.
Prosim odgovor samo na to predpostavko, brez raznih če . . . in drugih filozofiranj!


Tamponska cona v obliki marionetne, nesuverene države ni nekaj, do česar bi država Z imela pravico.

Država Z se lahko počuti predvsem nesposobno, ker ne more kot zaveznika zadržati niti svojih sosed.

Pa da se razumemo, nisema kakšen ...fil oz. ...fob ene ali druge strani, ampak poskušam realno gledati na stanje.


Realno gledano na stanje ruska dejanja (sploh po letu 2008) naravnost kričijo: POJDI STRAN OD RUSIJE ČIM PREJ TEM BOLJE IN SI POIŠČI DRUGE PRIJATELJE TAKOJ!!!!

To definitivno ni krivda NATO, ZDA, EU, Nemčije, Merklove ... ampak zgolj poglavarja v Kremlju. Če zraven tebe ne ostanejo niti države, s katerimi imaš globoke gospodarske, politične, kulturne in zgodovinske stike in raje bežijo k tvojim nasprotnikom, kljub temu da si to poskušaš na vse pretege preprečiti, je nekaj močno narobe s tvojo politiko.

Oziroma povedano drugače, zakaj misliš, da Rusija nima nobenih pogojev, da bi pridobila omembe vreden vpliv v Kanadi, medtem ko ZDA zlahka dobri ogromen vpliv v Ukrajini? Ker je CIA toliko sposobnejša od FSB ali kaj?

Pac-Man ::

Tole je enostavno treba omenit. Andrej Bubejev je v Rusiji dobil 2 leti in 3 mesece zapora + enoletno prepoved uporabe interneta za repost, ne avtorstvo, ampak repost, dveh VK objav v slogu "Krim je Ukrajina". Separatizem pa to. :D

https://twitter.com/christogrozev/statu...

Tver engineer who reposted a post titled "Crimea is Ukraine" was sentenced to two years "for separatism". The irony.


THIS is a modern RU hero.Asked in court if he acknowledges guilt, he said he "strongly believes" Russia stole Crimea

Ru TV: "BBC hypocritically criticizes us for jailing blogger who reposted "Crimea=Ukraine", but forgets UK jails people who offend blacks"

Remember this name:Andrey Bubeev. 2 years + 3 months in penal colony for REPOSTING "Crimea=Ukraine", + 1 FURTHER year ban on using Internet

RU "expert", defending incarceration of blogger: "Every country in the world must defend its territorial integrity"



I kid you f.ing not, cel prispevek z nacionalke:



http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1462496...

If the truth about the Soviet Union once resulted in imprisonment for ‘anti-Soviet propaganda’, just reposting an article entitled ‘Crimea is Ukraine’ can now result in a prison sentence for so-called ‘public calls to separatism’. You’ll also end up on Russia’s ‘List of extremists and terrorists’, with any bank accounts frozen, well before a court ruling.

Andrei Bubeyev, a mechanical engineer from Tver, has become the latest blogger to be jailed for material on his personal VKontakte page critical of the current regime and especially Russia’s aggression against Ukraine and annexation of Crimea. A Tver court on Thursday, May 5, found him guilty on two counts and sentenced him to 2 years in a minimum security prison-colony and prohibited him from using the Internet for a year.

According to his lawyer Svetlana Sidorkina, Bubeyev was charged over two pieces of material he reposted on VKontakte. The first was a poster by Anton Myrzin, otherwise known as Paperdaemon Chaognostic called “Squeeze Russia out of yourself”. The phrase hearkens back to a letter from Anton Chekhov to a friend in which he spoke of needing “to squeeze the slave out of us, drop by drop”. Here it is Russia that needs to be squeezed out – in the poster from a toothpaste tube.



This was deemed by the Russian investigators and court to constitute ‘public calls to extremism via the Internet’ (Article 280 § 2).

He was also charged with reposting an article by Boris Stomakhin entitled ‘Crimea is Ukraine’. The article would certainly annoy the current regime under President Vladimir Putin. Stomakhin considers Russia’s invasion and annexation of Crimea to have been the final straw, the border dividing this world from that, good from evil. He says that Russians should paint the word “Russian occupiers out of Crimea!” and “Russian swine, return Crimea to Ukraine!” on every wall in every Russian city”.

Stomakhin is now himself serving a politically motivated prison sentence, and Bubeyev, who simply reposted the article has been convicted of ‘public calls to separatism via the Internet’ under Article 280.1 § 2).

Article 280.1 was added to Russia’s criminal code in May 2014, with fears expressed from the outset that it would be used to crush criticism over the invasion and annexation.

...

In March 2016, the two-year prison sentence against Darya Polyudova was upheld. She had been convicted three months earlier of two charges, including the same ‘public calls to separatism’ over criticism of Russia’s aggression against Ukraine.

The sentence has just been upheld of 35-year-old Vadim Tyumentsev from Tomsk (in Siberia) who was sentenced to 5 years in December 2015 over calls to peaceful protest and critical comments on the Internet regarding Russian military aggression in Ukraine and pro-Russian separatists. Tyumentsov, who has been in detention since 28 April this year, was declared a political prisoner by the renowned Memorial Human Rights Centre in November.

...

This is Bubeyev’s second prosecution, with the first, initiated at the beginning of 2015, also over material about Russian aggression in Ukraine. These bloggers are increasingly jailed, while Putin reappoints his protégé Ramzan Kadyrov as leader of Chechnya after the latter openly posted a photo with a sniper aiming at Russian opposition leader Mikhail Kasyanov and threatened reprisals against opposition to the Kremlin. Alexander Dugin, fascist leader with friends in very high Russian quarters, politician Vladimir Zhirinovsky with his threats against all of Europe do not fall under Russia’s highly specific understanding of ‘extremism’.


Inkrimatorna repostana objava:

http://zapretno.info/?p=1156

gtranslate:

https://translate.google.com/translate?...

7982884e ::

in kar je najbolj zalostno, translatan komentar tipicnega rusa na video:

And I believe that this penalty is still very tender. People become confused, "God's gift to the eggs." It's one thing to have a personal opinion. It is everyone's business. But when on the basis of this opinion, there is propaganda, insults, provocation ... This is not freedom of speech and thought. It is a crime. And it does not say, every offender must be punished.


vatnikom je torej kul, ker se gre za protipatriotsko propagando in to ni svoboda govora, to je zlocin in zlocin je treba kaznovat.
zdej veste, zakaj taki ljudje niso evropa in se par desetletij po mentalnosti ne bodo zreli za evropo.

Smrekar1 ::

Pac-man je pokazal odličen primer zakaj je Rusija dejansko fašistična država in zakaj je edino primerno njhovega poglavar klicati Putler.

Jarno ::

Recimo, da so spoznali, da jih demokracija v idealističnem pomenu besede dela šibke in podložne. Kot Kitajci.
In so "demokratično" podprli svojega velikega vodjo in vizionarja Putina.
Jebemti, to je demokracija (volja večine), da si skuhajo tovrstno situacijo in jo podpirajo.

Sicer pa je od njih ekonomska korist, ki bi lahko bila še večja.
Situacija, v kateri striček Darwin tam hara idealiste, pa me ne skrbi, ker se ne razmnožujejo eksponentno.

7982884e ::

rusija ni v situaciji, kjer lahko "veliki in vizionarski vodja putin" državo izolira od zlih zahodnih držav in fura svoj režim po svoje.
še kitajci niso in so vsaj zadost pametni, da ne grejo v take ekstreme, rusi pa še precej, precej manj.

šibki in podložni bodo rusi po par letih take situacije, ko bodo v gospodarskem merilu vredni še manj kot danes in jim bo ostala samo še vojaška moč.

Starodavni ::

7982884e

točno tako, v tem svetu, kjer se dogaja globalizacija in pospešuje trgovina je izolacija slaba ideja. Poglejte skrajni primer izolirane države - S. Koreja ter njeno nasprotje - J. Koreja, ki je bolj odprta in vpeta v trgovske tokove sveta.

Tako da, če se Rusija izolira, bo gospodarsko na še slabši ravni kot je Italija, že zdaj je Ruska ekonomija ekvivalentna Italijanski po moči, ampak to se hitro slabša in potem bo čez par let rusija nekje na ravni kakšne afriške države, ki ima veliko surovin, prebivalstvo, ampak neučinkovito vodstvo in hudo revščino. paradoksalno, a ne.

A če hočejo rusi furati russia STRONK stil, pa naj bo tako, samo potem bodo pa posledice :) Pa še bral sem o tem, da je ogromen %, mislim da je 55% zadolženih s krediti, ki imajo oderuške obresti.

Pac-Man ::

Primerjava z Italijo je že stara. Trenutno se ruska ekonomija nahaja na 12. mestu, v sendviču med Južno Korejo in Avstralijo.

List of countries by GDP %28nominal%29 @ Wikipedia

Inflacija je qrba.
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