Forum » Problemi človeštva » Protesti in spopadi v Ukrajini ter Krimska kriza
Protesti in spopadi v Ukrajini ter Krimska kriza
Temo vidijo: vsi
Smrekar1 ::
jukoz ::
Trenutno nobena od njih nima legitimne vlade. Legalno mogoče, legitimno ne.
Kaj pa bombardiranje Pakistana, Jemna? Njihove vlade se s tem ne strinjajo. Po tvoje: OBAMA FAŠIST !!!!!!!11111111!!!!!!!!!!111111!!!!
Kaj pa bombardiranje Pakistana, Jemna? Njihove vlade se s tem ne strinjajo. Po tvoje: OBAMA FAŠIST !!!!!!!11111111!!!!!!!!!!111111!!!!
Smrekar1 ::
OK, Laura Poitras
Je ne preganjajo.
O Occupy Wall Street ni poročal noben medij, ne Fox, ne CNN, pa tudi Reuters ne. Po tvojem razumevanju sveta mora torej Obama kontrolirati vse medije.
Jao.
CNN:
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/18/us/oc...
Foxnews:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/10/...
Reuters:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/...
Poročanj je še, to so samo linki, ki sem jih takoj dobil na Guglu. CNN ima o njih skoraj 1000 člankov.
Ne. Glavni so domači in tuji ekstremisti. Rusija ima veliko več terorističnih napadov letno kot EU in ZDA skupaj (Več jih imajo verjetno v Indiji, Pakistanu in na Kitajskem. Šmet, so velika država). Potem verjetno sledijo razne tuje agencije itd. pa tudi vojaška zavezništva katerih del Rusija ni.
Kot na primer tiste eksplozije plina, o katerih so debatirali v parlamentu tri dni preden so se zgodile in jih potem uporabili kot izgovor za brutaliziranje Čečenije?
So pa izglasovali samostojnost, nato pa je njihov parlament zaprosil za pridružitev. Tako kot slovenski za pridružitev EU ali ukrajinski ko (oz je že) k NATU.
Kakšen parlament? Saj niso imeli volitev, samo nekega nastavljenega KGB-jevca.
Za pridružitev EU in NATO smo imeli referendum 23. marca 2003.
Slovenian European Union and NATO membership referendum, 2003 @ Wikipedia
Občutek imam, da ti pogled ne seže dlje od antizahodnih propagandnih medijev.
Dejstvo pa je da je večina glasovala za samostojnost in priključitev k Rusiji.
Kako so lahko glasovali za samostojnost in za priključitev Rusiji? Ti dve stvari se izključujeta.
Poleg tega ni nobeno dejstvo, da je večina glasovala za to. Dejstvo je, da referendum ni bil v skladu z nobeno demokratično normo in da se še teh ponarejenih rezultatov niso uspeli držati.
Kaj pa bombardiranje Pakistana, Jemna? Njihove vlade se s tem ne strinjajo. Po tvoje: OBAMA FAŠIST !!!!!!!11111111!!!!!!!!!!111111!!!!
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/08/2...
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/24/polit...
Možno je, da tega niso hoteli ravno obešati na veliki zvon, ker je folk tako antiameriško nastrojen.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Smrekar1 ()
jukoz ::
> Je ne preganjajo.
"Poitras has been subject to monitoring by the US Government. After completing My Country, My Country, Poitras claims, "I've been placed on the Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) watch list" and to have been notified by airport security "that my 'threat rating' was the highest the Department of Homeland Security assigns".[14] She says her work has been hampered by constant harassment by border agents during more than three dozen border crossings into and out of the United States. She has been detained for hours and interrogated and agents have seized her computer, cell phone and reporters notes and not returned them for weeks. Once she was threatened with being refused entry back into the United States.Poitras has been subject to monitoring by the US Government. After completing My Country, My Country, Poitras claims, "I've been placed on the Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) watch list" and to have been notified by airport security "that my 'threat rating' was the highest the Department of Homeland Security assigns".[14] She says her work has been hampered by constant harassment by border agents during more than three dozen border crossings into and out of the United States. She has been detained for hours and interrogated and agents have seized her computer, cell phone and reporters notes and not returned them for weeks. Once she was threatened with being refused entry back into the United States."
Vir: Laura Poitras @ Wikipedia
Tu pa samo ti vidiš razliko med delovanjem ruske države in ameriškimi varnostnimi agencijami.
> Jao.
"On September 17, 2011, the "Occupy Wall Street" protest began using Zuccotti Park as a campground and staging area for their actions."
Vir: Zuccotti Park @ Wikipedia
Reuters, prvi članek iz 30.09.2011, potem ko je NYPD chief izjavil da ne more sprazniti parka:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/...
> Kot na primer tiste eksplozije plina, o katerih so debatirali v parlamentu tri dni preden so se zgodile in jih potem uporabili kot izgovor za brutaliziranje Čečenije?
Vir? Ah, naj bo po tvoje: Laž.
> Kakšen parlament? Saj niso imeli volitev, samo nekega nastavljenega KGB-jevca.
Vir? Ah, naj bo po tvoje: Laž.
> Kako so lahko glasovali za samostojnost in za priključitev Rusiji? Ti dve stvari se izključujeta.
Tako kot mi na referendumu 23. marca 2003.
> Poleg tega ni nobeno dejstvo, da je večina glasovala za to. Dejstvo je, da referendum ni bil v skladu z nobeno demokratično normo in da se še teh ponarejenih rezultatov niso uspeli držati.
Vir? Ah, naj bo po tvoje: Laž.
> Možno je, da tega niso hoteli ravno obešati na veliki zvon, ker je folk tako antiameriško nastrojen.
https://medium.com/matt-bors/yemen-bomb...
2011 NATO attack in Pakistan @ Wikipedia
Hm, meni zgledajo vsi isti. Ful fajn za poslušne državljane, precej manj za vse ostale.
"Poitras has been subject to monitoring by the US Government. After completing My Country, My Country, Poitras claims, "I've been placed on the Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) watch list" and to have been notified by airport security "that my 'threat rating' was the highest the Department of Homeland Security assigns".[14] She says her work has been hampered by constant harassment by border agents during more than three dozen border crossings into and out of the United States. She has been detained for hours and interrogated and agents have seized her computer, cell phone and reporters notes and not returned them for weeks. Once she was threatened with being refused entry back into the United States.Poitras has been subject to monitoring by the US Government. After completing My Country, My Country, Poitras claims, "I've been placed on the Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) watch list" and to have been notified by airport security "that my 'threat rating' was the highest the Department of Homeland Security assigns".[14] She says her work has been hampered by constant harassment by border agents during more than three dozen border crossings into and out of the United States. She has been detained for hours and interrogated and agents have seized her computer, cell phone and reporters notes and not returned them for weeks. Once she was threatened with being refused entry back into the United States."
Vir: Laura Poitras @ Wikipedia
Tu pa samo ti vidiš razliko med delovanjem ruske države in ameriškimi varnostnimi agencijami.
> Jao.
"On September 17, 2011, the "Occupy Wall Street" protest began using Zuccotti Park as a campground and staging area for their actions."
Vir: Zuccotti Park @ Wikipedia
Reuters, prvi članek iz 30.09.2011, potem ko je NYPD chief izjavil da ne more sprazniti parka:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/...
> Kot na primer tiste eksplozije plina, o katerih so debatirali v parlamentu tri dni preden so se zgodile in jih potem uporabili kot izgovor za brutaliziranje Čečenije?
Vir? Ah, naj bo po tvoje: Laž.
> Kakšen parlament? Saj niso imeli volitev, samo nekega nastavljenega KGB-jevca.
Vir? Ah, naj bo po tvoje: Laž.
> Kako so lahko glasovali za samostojnost in za priključitev Rusiji? Ti dve stvari se izključujeta.
Tako kot mi na referendumu 23. marca 2003.
> Poleg tega ni nobeno dejstvo, da je večina glasovala za to. Dejstvo je, da referendum ni bil v skladu z nobeno demokratično normo in da se še teh ponarejenih rezultatov niso uspeli držati.
Vir? Ah, naj bo po tvoje: Laž.
> Možno je, da tega niso hoteli ravno obešati na veliki zvon, ker je folk tako antiameriško nastrojen.
https://medium.com/matt-bors/yemen-bomb...
2011 NATO attack in Pakistan @ Wikipedia
Hm, meni zgledajo vsi isti. Ful fajn za poslušne državljane, precej manj za vse ostale.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenilo: jukoz ()
Smrekar1 ::
"Poitras has been subject to monitoring by the US Government. After completing My Country, My Country, Poitras claims, "I've been placed on the Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) watch list" and to have been notified by airport security "that my 'threat rating' was the highest the Department of Homeland Security assigns".[14] She says her work has been hampered by constant harassment by border agents during more than three dozen border crossings into and out of the United States. She has been detained for hours and interrogated and agents have seized her computer, cell phone and reporters notes and not returned them for weeks. Once she was threatened with being refused entry back into the United States.Poitras has been subject to monitoring by the US Government. After completing My Country, My Country, Poitras claims, "I've been placed on the Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) watch list" and to have been notified by airport security "that my 'threat rating' was the highest the Department of Homeland Security assigns".[14] She says her work has been hampered by constant harassment by border agents during more than three dozen border crossings into and out of the United States. She has been detained for hours and interrogated and agents have seized her computer, cell phone and reporters notes and not returned them for weeks. Once she was threatened with being refused entry back into the United States."
Vir: Laura Poitras @ Wikipedia
Lie @ Wikipedia
"On September 17, 2011, the "Occupy Wall Street" protest began using Zuccotti Park as a campground and staging area for their actions."
Vir: Zuccotti Park @ Wikipedia
Reuters, prvi članek iz 30.09.2011, potem ko je NYPD chief izjavil da ne more sprazniti parka:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/...
Torej si vedel, da Reuters je poročal o Occupy Wall Street in se zlagal, da ni poročal? In na osnovi teh laži potem trdiš, da je Obama diktator?
Pa tko, mimogrede:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/...
Si res čisto nesposoben?
A greva gledat CNN?
http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/17/technol...
> Kot na primer tiste eksplozije plina, o katerih so debatirali v parlamentu tri dni preden so se zgodile in jih potem uporabili kot izgovor za brutaliziranje Čečenije?
Vir? Ah, naj bo po tvoje: Laž.
Russian apartment bombings @ Wikipedia
Incident in Russian Parliament
On September 13th, just hours after the second explosion in Moscow, Russian Duma speaker Gennadiy Seleznyov of the Communist Party made an announcement: "I have just received a report. According to information from Rostov-on-Don, an apartment building in the city of Volgodonsk was blown up last night".[72][73][74][75] However, the bombing in Volgodonsk took place three days later, on 16 September.
> Kakšen parlament? Saj niso imeli volitev, samo nekega nastavljenega KGB-jevca.
Vir? Ah, naj bo po tvoje: Laž.
Imaš ti kak vir, da so imeli volitve za parlament? Ni mi treba dokazovati, da se nekaj ni zgodilo.
Tako kot mi na referendumu 23. marca 2003.
Mi smo 23. marca 2003 glasovali o vključitvi v EU. To s samostojnostjo nima nobene veze. Poleg tega takrat nismo glasovali o samostojnosti, tisto je bilo 23. decembra 1990.
> Poleg tega ni nobeno dejstvo, da je večina glasovala za to. Dejstvo je, da referendum ni bil v skladu z nobeno demokratično normo in da se še teh ponarejenih rezultatov niso uspeli držati.
Vir? Ah, naj bo po tvoje: Laž.
Imaš kak vir, ki kaže, da je referendumsko vprašanje bilo za priključitev Rusiji? Če ga dobiš greva lahko debatirat o demokratičnih vrednotah referenduma. Do takrat pa tega sploh ne rabim. Veliko sreče.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Smrekar1 ()
phantom ::
Referendumsko vprašanje v Donbasu je bilo, če so za avtonomijo/samostojsnot. Ni bilo jasno, ali sprašujejo za povečanje avtonomije ali polno samostojnost. Vodje upornikov so obljubili dva referenduma, če ta prvi uspe še enega o priključitvi Rusiji teden kasneje, samo do tega nikoli ni prišlo. Kakšen dan po prvem referendumu, ko so razglasili rezultate, so drugi referendum preklicali in kar takoj zaprosili Rusijo za priključitev.
Zanimivo je še to, kako hitro so preverili (v 1 dnevu!), da kdo ni glasoval dvakrat. Ko so jih novinarji vprašali, kako bodo preprečili dvojno glasovanje glede na to, da nimajo volilnih imenikov, niti ljudem ne pomakajo prstov v črnilo (kakor npr. v Egiptu, Afganistanu ...) so uporniški vodje odgovorili, da bodo preverili, če je kateri volilec podpisan na več voliščih, da je glasoval. Volišč je bilo samo v doneški regiji 2300 in 3.2 milijona volilcev.
Donbass status referendums, 2014 @ Wikipedia
http://www.rtvslo.si/svet/referendum-mi...
http://www.rtvslo.si/svet/ukrajinski-re...
Zanimivo je še to, kako hitro so preverili (v 1 dnevu!), da kdo ni glasoval dvakrat. Ko so jih novinarji vprašali, kako bodo preprečili dvojno glasovanje glede na to, da nimajo volilnih imenikov, niti ljudem ne pomakajo prstov v črnilo (kakor npr. v Egiptu, Afganistanu ...) so uporniški vodje odgovorili, da bodo preverili, če je kateri volilec podpisan na več voliščih, da je glasoval. Volišč je bilo samo v doneški regiji 2300 in 3.2 milijona volilcev.
Donbass status referendums, 2014 @ Wikipedia
http://www.rtvslo.si/svet/referendum-mi...
http://www.rtvslo.si/svet/ukrajinski-re...
~
~
:wq
~
:wq
Smrekar1 ::
Referendumsko vprašanje v Donbasu je bilo, če so za avtonomijo/samostojsnot. Ni bilo jasno, ali sprašujejo za povečanje avtonomije ali polno samostojnost. Vodje upornikov so obljubili dva referenduma, če ta prvi uspe še enega o priključitvi Rusiji teden kasneje, samo do tega nikoli ni prišlo. Kakšen dan po prvem referendumu, ko so razglasili rezultate, so drugi referendum preklicali in kar takoj zaprosili Rusijo za priključitev.
Zanimivo je še to, kako hitro so preverili (v 1 dnevu!), da kdo ni glasoval dvakrat. Ko so jih novinarji vprašali, kako bodo preprečili dvojno glasovanje glede na to, da nimajo volilnih imenikov, niti ljudem ne pomakajo prstov v črnilo (kakor npr. v Egiptu, Afganistanu ...) so uporniški vodje odgovorili, da bodo preverili, če je kateri volilec podpisan na več voliščih, da je glasoval. Volišč je bilo samo v doneški regiji 2300 in 3.2 milijona volilcev.
Donbass status referendums, 2014 @ Wikipedia
http://www.rtvslo.si/svet/referendum-mi...
http://www.rtvslo.si/svet/ukrajinski-re...
Mah zadeva je bila slaba šala in z demokracijo ni imela nobene zveze. Enako kot imajo volitve tudi v Severni Koreji, nič bolj demokratično ni bilo.
Ampak sumim, da bo jukoz o tem trolal z morebitnimi nepravilnostmi v demokratičnih državah, zato ostanimo pri stvareh, o katerih je težje trolat: referenduma o priključitvi Rusiji ni bilo, zato ne moremo trditi, da je to volja lokalnega ljudstva.
Se spomniš tistega z Mipetovo angleštino? No, ista stvar
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Smrekar1 ()
jukoz ::
> Lie @ Wikipedia
Ok, wikipedia laže
> Torej si vedel, da Reuters je poročal o Occupy Wall Street in se zlagal, da ni poročal? In na osnovi teh laži potem trdiš, da je Obama diktator?
Priznam, tega članka nisem našel. In sem OWS spremljal preko AlJazeere. Imaš res.
> Russian apartment bombings @ Wikipedia
Fail, ker si že prej trdil da wikipedia laže, torej mora tud ta članek biti laž.
> Imaš ti kak vir, da so imeli volitve za parlament? Ni mi treba dokazovati, da se nekaj ni zgodilo.
Volitve so imeli 2010, kdo je zmagal pa ne vem. Verjetno ve wikipedia
> Imaš kak vir, ki kaže, da je referendumsko vprašanje bilo za priključitev Rusiji? Če ga dobiš greva lahko debatirat o demokratičnih vrednotah referenduma. Do takrat pa tega sploh ne rabim. Veliko sreče.
Crimean status referendum, 2014 @ Wikipedia
> Skratka, pravi praznik demokracije!
Ene tak kot povsod kjer imaš volitve v vojnem času oz času "protiterorističnih" policijskih akcij
Pa da ne bomo samo trolal:
"Georgetown University law professor Anna Gelpern has been prominent among those recommending that Ukraine refuse to honor the bond as "odious debt". (here)
The term refers to money borrowed by a previous regime that was either misappropriated or not used to citizens' benefit.
Gelpern has also said the British parliament and courts should refuse to enforce the contracts on that Eurobond.
That seems unlikely. Aside from the reputational damage caused by defaulting, courts rarely endorse the "odious debt" argument, says Spegel of BNP Paribas.
Hardly any government has used it recently, not even Iraq after the overthrow of Saddam Hussein or post-apartheid South Africa, which might have had a case for doing so.
"Although it was a liability taken on by Yanukovich and there are claims he may not have acted in the public interest... the fact remains that he was a democratically elected president, so the argument is unlikely to sit well with a court," Spegel said."
Vir: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/...
Ok, wikipedia laže
> Torej si vedel, da Reuters je poročal o Occupy Wall Street in se zlagal, da ni poročal? In na osnovi teh laži potem trdiš, da je Obama diktator?
Priznam, tega članka nisem našel. In sem OWS spremljal preko AlJazeere. Imaš res.
> Russian apartment bombings @ Wikipedia
Fail, ker si že prej trdil da wikipedia laže, torej mora tud ta članek biti laž.
> Imaš ti kak vir, da so imeli volitve za parlament? Ni mi treba dokazovati, da se nekaj ni zgodilo.
Volitve so imeli 2010, kdo je zmagal pa ne vem. Verjetno ve wikipedia
> Imaš kak vir, ki kaže, da je referendumsko vprašanje bilo za priključitev Rusiji? Če ga dobiš greva lahko debatirat o demokratičnih vrednotah referenduma. Do takrat pa tega sploh ne rabim. Veliko sreče.
Crimean status referendum, 2014 @ Wikipedia
> Skratka, pravi praznik demokracije!
Ene tak kot povsod kjer imaš volitve v vojnem času oz času "protiterorističnih" policijskih akcij
Pa da ne bomo samo trolal:
"Georgetown University law professor Anna Gelpern has been prominent among those recommending that Ukraine refuse to honor the bond as "odious debt". (here)
The term refers to money borrowed by a previous regime that was either misappropriated or not used to citizens' benefit.
Gelpern has also said the British parliament and courts should refuse to enforce the contracts on that Eurobond.
That seems unlikely. Aside from the reputational damage caused by defaulting, courts rarely endorse the "odious debt" argument, says Spegel of BNP Paribas.
Hardly any government has used it recently, not even Iraq after the overthrow of Saddam Hussein or post-apartheid South Africa, which might have had a case for doing so.
"Although it was a liability taken on by Yanukovich and there are claims he may not have acted in the public interest... the fact remains that he was a democratically elected president, so the argument is unlikely to sit well with a court," Spegel said."
Vir: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/...
Double_J ::
Putin izvaja represijo nad novinarji, Obama ne.
Putin si je podjarmil državne medije, Obama ne (oz. jih nima).
Putin si je podjarmil sodno oblast, Obama ne.
Putin goji kult osebnosti, Obama ne.
Putin umetno ustvarja zunanjega sovražnika, Obama ne.
Putin si je priključil kos sosednje države v nasprotju z vsem mednarodnim pravom, Obama ne.
Putin in Obama sta oba avtoritarna voditelja, ki naročata umore lastnih državljanov, ki jima niso všeč. Nažalost je to dejstvo.
Dve šivanki...
Daedalus ::
Na žalost je tudi dejstvo, da eni bedaki primerjajo ZDA in Rusijo, ter na podlagi pizdarij prve, opravičujejo pizdarije druge. Tipični levo-desni lokalni zblojenci, ki ne ločijo umora od umora. In pol pravijo, če koljejo "vaši", lahko koljemo tud mi.
Glede ruske vloge v UKR in ruske propafande nasploh pa... tale precej stara karikatura pove precej.
Glede ruske vloge v UKR in ruske propafande nasploh pa... tale precej stara karikatura pove precej.
Man is condemned to be free; because once thrown into the world,
he is responsible for everything he does.
[J.P.Sartre]
he is responsible for everything he does.
[J.P.Sartre]
Smrekar1 ::
Ok, wikipedia laže
Ne, Wikipedija pove po pravici. "Ta gospa pravi ..."
Nič ne dvomim, da je ta gospa res izjavila te nepreverljive in skrajno nevejetne trditve. Seveda za njih ni nobenih dokazov, ona pa na njihov račun služi. Politični ekvivalent Justina Bieberja pač.
Volitve so imeli 2010, kdo je zmagal pa ne vem. Verjetno ve wikipedia
Ampak tista lokalna vlada prav gotovo ni imela avtoritete delovati kot samostojna entiteta, niti ni bil voljena kot taka. Niso imeli mandata, da bi sprejeli tako odločitev.
Crimean status referendum, 2014 @ Wikipedia
Govorili smo o Donbasu, ne o Krimu.
Ene tak kot povsod kjer imaš volitve v vojnem času oz času "protiterorističnih" policijskih akcij
Torej se strinjaš, da referendumi nisi bili v skladu z nobeno demokratično normo?
No čestitke. Samo ne vleči jih več ven, ker niso za nobeno rabo.
Pa da ne bomo samo trolal:
(trolanje)
Vir: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/...
To nima natanko nobene povezave s temo. Toliko da veš.
Na žalost je tudi dejstvo, da eni bedaki primerjajo ZDA in Rusijo, ter na podlagi pizdarij prve, opravičujejo pizdarije druge.
Ja. In ne samo to, pizdarije prve si gladko izmislijo (primer zgoraj, o OWS).
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Smrekar1 ()
Smrekar1 ::
Putin in Obama sta oba avtoritarna voditelja, ki naročata umore lastnih državljanov, ki jima niso všeč. Nažalost je to dejstvo.
Recimo Snowdena? Aja ne, je še kar živ, čeprav povsem ustreza opisu izdajalca in vohuna. Za razliko od nekaterih Rusov, ki so storili zločine tipa "opozarjali na avtoritarnost Putina".
Smrekar1 ::
Kaj pa madžarom dogaja?
Verjetno se je Orban, ki ima Putn(č)istične tendence, pustil izsiljevati ali podkupiti. Upam, da je dovolj pameten, da je bilo slednje in da bo ta čas izkoristil za praznjenje vojaških skladišč v smeri vzhoda.
Malo plina za ogrevanje Ukrajine ne bo rešilo, tanki, topovi in inštruktorji pa bi jo znali.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- predlagal izbris: _commandos_ ()
jukoz ::
> Nič ne dvomim, da je ta gospa res izjavila te nepreverljive in skrajno nevejetne trditve. Seveda za njih ni nobenih dokazov, ona pa na njihov račun služi. Politični ekvivalent Justina Bieberja pač.
Tako kot to velja za vse, ki jih preganja ruska oblast. Čisto slučajno jih bolj strogo preverja davčna v spremstvu FSBja. Čisto slučajno. Tako kot če se čisto slučajno znajdeš na no-fly listi, ki se potem razdeli vsem policijam in tajnim službam po svetu.
> Ampak tista lokalna vlada prav gotovo ni imela avtoritete delovati kot samostojna entiteta, niti ni bil voljena kot taka. Niso imeli mandata, da bi sprejeli tako odločitev.
In? Sej legalna Kosovska regionalna oblast se leta 2008 tudi ne bi odcepiti. Je sedela v Beogradu, med tem ko se je defakto vlada odcepila. In kaj je bilo pol? Kosovo se je odcepilo. Tako kot Abhazija in Južna Osetija.
> Govorili smo o Donbasu, ne o Krimu.
Kakor želiš.
> Torej se strinjaš, da referendumi nisi bili v skladu z nobeno demokratično normo? No čestitke. Samo ne vleči jih več ven, ker niso za nobeno rabo.
Tako kot nobene volitve v vojnem času. Ali pa volitve kjer moraš zaradi varnosti imeti oborožene policaje na voliščih.
> To nima natanko nobene povezave s temo. Toliko da veš.
OK, zdej vem da odplačilo dolga, ki ga je najel odstavljeni predsednik in ga bo potrebno plačati nima veze s temo "Protesti in spopadi v Ukrajini in Krimska kriza"
> Ja. In ne samo to, pizdarije prve si gladko izmislijo (primer zgoraj, o OWS).
Lej, se ti opravičujem, sem nasedel lažni propagandi in nisem mislil s svojo glavo. Debatirala sva o svobodnih medijih ki v Rusiji poročajo v prid Putinu, med tem ko v ZDA mediji nikoli ne poročajo v prid oblasti. Razen kadar zganjajo propagando v korist oblasti: Media coverage of the Iraq War @ Wikipedia
> Recimo Snowdena? Aja ne, je še kar živ, čeprav povsem ustreza opisu izdajalca in vohuna. Za razliko od nekaterih Rusov, ki so storili zločine tipa "opozarjali na avtoritarnost Putina".
Snowden je še živ. Kdo drug pa ne. Sicer pa ja, sej so teroristi: Anwar al-Awlaki @ Wikipedia
Aja, pa niso belci.
Tako kot to velja za vse, ki jih preganja ruska oblast. Čisto slučajno jih bolj strogo preverja davčna v spremstvu FSBja. Čisto slučajno. Tako kot če se čisto slučajno znajdeš na no-fly listi, ki se potem razdeli vsem policijam in tajnim službam po svetu.
> Ampak tista lokalna vlada prav gotovo ni imela avtoritete delovati kot samostojna entiteta, niti ni bil voljena kot taka. Niso imeli mandata, da bi sprejeli tako odločitev.
In? Sej legalna Kosovska regionalna oblast se leta 2008 tudi ne bi odcepiti. Je sedela v Beogradu, med tem ko se je defakto vlada odcepila. In kaj je bilo pol? Kosovo se je odcepilo. Tako kot Abhazija in Južna Osetija.
> Govorili smo o Donbasu, ne o Krimu.
Kakor želiš.
> Torej se strinjaš, da referendumi nisi bili v skladu z nobeno demokratično normo? No čestitke. Samo ne vleči jih več ven, ker niso za nobeno rabo.
Tako kot nobene volitve v vojnem času. Ali pa volitve kjer moraš zaradi varnosti imeti oborožene policaje na voliščih.
> To nima natanko nobene povezave s temo. Toliko da veš.
OK, zdej vem da odplačilo dolga, ki ga je najel odstavljeni predsednik in ga bo potrebno plačati nima veze s temo "Protesti in spopadi v Ukrajini in Krimska kriza"
> Ja. In ne samo to, pizdarije prve si gladko izmislijo (primer zgoraj, o OWS).
Lej, se ti opravičujem, sem nasedel lažni propagandi in nisem mislil s svojo glavo. Debatirala sva o svobodnih medijih ki v Rusiji poročajo v prid Putinu, med tem ko v ZDA mediji nikoli ne poročajo v prid oblasti. Razen kadar zganjajo propagando v korist oblasti: Media coverage of the Iraq War @ Wikipedia
> Recimo Snowdena? Aja ne, je še kar živ, čeprav povsem ustreza opisu izdajalca in vohuna. Za razliko od nekaterih Rusov, ki so storili zločine tipa "opozarjali na avtoritarnost Putina".
Snowden je še živ. Kdo drug pa ne. Sicer pa ja, sej so teroristi: Anwar al-Awlaki @ Wikipedia
Aja, pa niso belci.
Double_J ::
Recimo Snowdena? Aja ne, je še kar živ, čeprav povsem ustreza opisu izdajalca in vohuna.
Snowden, Assange, Manning... tej ljudje so ravno zaradi tega varni pred nenadno smrtjo. Torej ne bo jim nenadoma odpovedalo srce, avion na katerem se vozijo, se ne bo nenadoma pokvaril. Ker potem se ti ne bi mogel izgovarjati, da so živi, če pa bi bili mrtvi. Torej bi bil v težavah, Obama pa tudi.
Za razliko od nekaterih Rusov, ki so storili zločine tipa "opozarjali na avtoritarnost Putina".
Ja... tako kot Andrew Breitbart.
Obama je naročil likvidacije vsaj 30 ljudi, imena so več ali manj znana. Je pa eno ime, ki je posebej šokantno, kar pomojem ne bi storil niti Stalin.
Dve šivanki...
Double_J ::
Nobeden ne bo vprašal za najbolj šokantno ime? No pa vam bom vseeno povedal...
1. Madelyn Lee Payne Dunham
Za bonus pa vam povem še drugo najbolj šokantno ime...
2. Lia Soetoro
1. Madelyn Lee Payne Dunham
Za bonus pa vam povem še drugo najbolj šokantno ime...
2. Lia Soetoro
Dve šivanki...
Double_J ::
Gremo še naprej?
Mislite da je gospodična še živa po tej izjavi? Žal ni...
Mislite da je gospod še živ po takem nastopu? Žal ni...
Mislite da je gospodična še živa po tej izjavi? Žal ni...
Mislite da je gospod še živ po takem nastopu? Žal ni...
Dve šivanki...
Martin Krpan ::
Dobr , mi vemo , da je Obama prasc , ti pa samo dokaži zakaj je Putka boljši od Dedka Mraza !
Double_J ::
Martin Krpan je izjavil:
Dobr , mi vemo , da je Obama prasc , ti pa samo dokaži zakaj je Putka boljši od Dedka Mraza !
Jaz sem se skozi celotno to temo pritoževal nad Putinom, tako da moramo biti pošteni. Putinova politika ni v stiku s časom. Ampak v ZDA se pa mora pod nujno nehati s stvarmi, ki jih opažamo. Do takšnih zadev bi morala biti ničelna toleranca.
Poglejte naprimer kaj se je zgodilo z Loretto Fuddy, vodjo zdravstvenega ministrstva na Hawaijih, potem ko se je odkrilo da je dobila podkupnino, za to da je potrdila avtentičnost Obamovega rojstnega lista. Ni je več med živimi.
Pa ko se je prej omenjal Snowden... Michael Hastings pa dejansko ni več živ. Pa še njegova nameščena žena Elise Jordan, ki je zaposlena v United States National Security Council, je bila del zarote proti njemu. Super žena.
Dve šivanki...
bluefish ::
Še zadnjič, vrnite se nazaj na topic ali pa gre tema v zaklep.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: bluefish ()
Vanich ::
Kievska hunta dekonzervirala kontaminirana vojna vozila in tanke iz Černobila in jih poslala na fronto.
Kaj vse to potegne za sabo, lahko doženete sami.
Kaj vse to potegne za sabo, lahko doženete sami.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- predlagal izbris: s1m0n ()
s1m0n ::
Vanich ::
Martin Krpan je izjavil:
En hrvat tam
http://www.jutarnji.hr/hrvat-andro-ranj...
Svoji k svojim: ustaši h nacistom. Nič novega.
Vanich ::
Kievska hunta dekonzervirala kontaminirana vojna vozila in tanke iz Černobila in jih poslala na fronto.
Kaj vse to potegne za sabo, lahko doženete sami.
Tisto je verjetno že davno vse razpadlo :)
Kaj od besede "dekonzervirano" ne razumeš? Letos so Novorusi v Ukrajini samo vlili bencin in olje v tank IS-2 - ki je bil spomenik, na prostem in na podstavku - verjetno še od 50-ih prejšnega stoletja. Stvar je takoj vžgala in se odpeljala. Samo municijo za top je bilo verjetno malo težje nabaviti.
Konzervirane tanke iz osemdesetih je verjetno še lažje spraviti h sebi.
Pac-Man ::
Pepca, velja tudi zate. "Never go full retard."
Imajo več kot dovolj ostale obrožitve iz sovjetskih časov, ki je potrebna nekaj TLC-ja, da jim ni potrebno po odlagališčih radioaktivne robe brskat.
Imajo več kot dovolj ostale obrožitve iz sovjetskih časov, ki je potrebna nekaj TLC-ja, da jim ni potrebno po odlagališčih radioaktivne robe brskat.
ZaphodBB ::
Ravno tako so uni tanki iz WW2 en navaden vandalizem, ker iz večih razlogov niso primerni za drugo kot pecanje plehpičk in strašenje mladih otrok.
Vanich ::
Pepca, velja tudi zate. "Never go full retard."
Imajo več kot dovolj ostale obrožitve iz sovjetskih časov, ki je potrebna nekaj TLC-ja, da jim ni potrebno po odlagališčih radioaktivne robe brskat.
V Novorusiji so izgubili najmanj 50% tehnike - in to po priznanju samega Porošenka.
Verjetno je ta procent še dosti večji.
Seveda sedaj praskajo po rezervah, uvažajo tanke iz madžarske, itd...in tu konzervirani visoko radioaktivni T-64 in BMPji iz okolice Černobila pridejo še kako prav.
Vojaki, ki jih vozijo, so pa itak že mrtvi - na fronti ali pa doma od raka - vseeno.
ZaphodBB ::
in tu konzervirani visoko radioaktivni T-64 in BMPji iz okolice Černobila pridejo še kako prav
Pravkar si izjavil eno veliko neumnost.
Pac-Man ::
Spet crossposting, se opravičujem:
Rusija govori o kijevskih fašistih, o svojih pa noče nič vedet, čeprav ima mnogo večji problem s skrajno desnico kot Ukrajina.
Ni dvoma, da v Ukrajini obstaja (nasilna) skrajna desnica, tako kot v praktično vseh ostalih državah in tega tudi nihče ne zanika. To jim je recimo uspelo prejšnji teden:
Ukrainian intellectual was attacked by paramilitary right-wing thugs in Kyiv
Ampak samo ena država v Evropi ima skrajno desnega uradnega ideologa in ideologijo. Rusija. (Dugin, Evrazijaizem/Tradicionalizem)
Samo ena država v Evropi podpira (tudi finančno) skrajno desna gibanja v preostanku sveta. Rusija. (Praktično vso evropsko skrajno desnico, sploh če je parlamentarna, v ZDA par white-power gibanj, anti-abortion/anti-gay/defense of family aktiviste in funny enough krog libertarcev okrog Ron Paula)
Zdaj pa še malo dodajmo k zbirki. Recimo:
ali morda
Who Are You Calling Fascist?
Putin’s Russia is in no position to criticize Ukraine.
Far-right extremism in Ukraine is indeed a worrisome problem. But the alarmist narrative of “neofascists in Kiev” is vastly exaggerated, more often than not with the blatant goal of discrediting a pro-democracy, pro-Western government—a bias all the more glaring when the alarmists ignore the rise of de facto fascism in Vladimir Putin’s Russia and its startling connections to ultra-right nationalism in Europe.
Concerns about the political ascendancy of militant Ukrainian nationalism generally focus on two groups: Svoboda (Freedom), a far-right party which advocates some patently illiberal policies—including a ban on what it deems anti-Ukrainian hate speech—and whose leaders have a history of xenophobic comments; and Right Sector, an armed militia that gained prominence in the Maidan protesters’ defense against government riot squads. (Vyacheslav Likhachev, a Russian-Jewish journalist and monitor for the Euro-Asian Jewish Congress, has estimated that only about 1 percent of the demonstrators were “radical nationalists.”)
...
The encouraging news is that popular support for the far right is negligible; in a March 26 poll, 2.5 percent of likely voters in the May 25 presidential election said they would vote for Svoboda leader Oleg Tyahnibok and just 1.4 percent for Yarosh. Moreover, Ukraine’s current leadership is clearly determined to curb its influence. A Svoboda-driven bill that would have effectively made Ukrainian the country’s sole official language was promptly vetoed by interim president Oleksandr Turchynov (a fact ignored in several subsequent articles in the American press that cited the language law as a Svoboda success). In late March, one of the top Svoboda-affiliated cabinet members, Defense Minister Ihor Tenyukh, resigned under pressure and was replaced with a nonpartisan career military man. It should be noted that Ukraine’s Jewish leaders are strongly supportive of the new government, in which several key posts are held by Jewish politicians.
Writing in Novaya Gazeta, one of Russia’s surviving dissident media outlets, journalist Alexander Lipsky has pointed out that smearing opponents as “fascist” was a standard Soviet propaganda ploy. Its revival is particularly ironic today, when some Russians using this slur may fit it far better than their targets do. Take Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, who recently lamented on Twitter that Ukrainians, his Soviet-era compatriots, had turned to “Nazis all around.” Rogozin first entered politics as a leader of the nationalist bloc Rodina (Motherland), which got booted from local Moscow elections in 2005 over an ad—featuring Rogozin himself—that used blatantly racist caricatures of Azerbaijani migrants. In 2011, he was the subject of a glowing tribute on the American “white identity” site Occidental Observer.
A far more sinister figure is Alexander Dugin, founder of the “Eurasian movement,” which defines its mission as opposing “liberal hegemony” and modernity. In the 1990s, Dugin, a college dropout active in marginal ultranationalist groups, wrote essays openly advocating fascism as a “third way” alternative to communism and capitalism. Dugin argued that real fascism had never been properly tried (an argument usually made on behalf of communism) and would eventually emerge in Russia; while disavowing the racist “excesses” of Nazism, he also praised the SS as an “intellectual oasis” in the Third Reich and fantasized about the rise of “a race of Nordic warrior priests.”
All this would make Dugin merely an odious crank if, by the mid-2000s, he had not emerged as a leading “intellectual” in Russia’s Putin-era political establishment, with ties to top politicians and members of the official media. Dropping the word “fascist,” he began to style himself a “traditionalist”; he also procured a Ph.D. and became the head of the Center for Conservative Studies at Moscow State University. In 2009, his International Eurasian Movement counted among its board members Alexander Torshin, Duma vice speaker and a leading figure in the ruling United Russia party, and Nikolai Yefimov, editor in chief of the army newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda (Red Star). Dugin was cited as an intellectual guru by Ivan Demidov, who headed United Russia’s ideology section in 2008, and currently serves as an adviser to the chairman of the State Duma, Sergei Naryshkin.
Dugin has long been a staunch foe of Ukraine’s independence and a champion of reclaiming Crimea for Russia. New evidence points to his direct involvement in fomenting unrest elsewhere in Ukraine. On March 31, a Eurasian Youth Movement leader, Oleg Bakhtiarov, was arrested in Kiev on charges of plotting attacks on the parliament; two days earlier, a video turned up online that showed Dugin giving tactical advice to Ekaterina Gubareva, a separatist activist in Donetsk, in an intercepted Skype conversation. (Gubareva’s husband, Pavel Gubarev, in detention after leading the takeover of a local government building, is an ex-member of Russian National Unity, a militant group with black uniforms and a swastika-like symbol.)
Amidst Russia’s current patriotic fervor, rhetoric with scarily fascistic overtones has gone increasingly mainstream. In his speech on the Crimea annexation, Putin called antiwar dissenters not only a “fifth column” but “national traitors,” a phrase that sounds as odd in Russian as it does in English and that some bloggers traced directly to Hitler’s “National-Verräter” in Mein Kampf. At times, this rhetoric has specifically singled out Jewish dissidents. In one eyebrow-raising moment, TV talk-show guest writer Alexander Prokhanov (a notorious peddler of anti-Semitic “journalism”) voiced bafflement at the Ukrainian revolution’s Jewish supporters who could be “bringing on a second Holocaust”—to which host Evelina Zakamskaya replied, “They brought on the first one, too.”
The Putin regime’s flirtation with fascism is not just domestic. A recent article by Northeastern University political scientist Mitchell Orenstein in Foreign Affairs documented extensive ties between the Kremlin and the nationalist extreme right in Europe, including Hungary’s Jobbik and Greece’s Golden Dawn. The “international observers” Moscow invited to the referendum in Crimea included Belgian neo-Nazi Luc Michel and former Polish MP Mateusz Piskorski, currently head of the European Center for Geopolitical Analysis, identified in a 2006 Anti-Defamation League report as a former “translator and publisher of hardcore Nazi material.” According to an exposé in a leading Polish newspaper, Gazeta Wyborcza, Piskorki’s magazine Odala, published in the late 1990s and early 2000s, openly praised Nazi Germany, featured Holocaust deniers, and called for a united Slavic empire as “the only hope for the White Race.”
In a particularly bizarre twist, Piskorski—a member of Dugin’s Eurasian movement—showed up as a speaker at a March 30 St. Petersburg international conference called “Neo-Fascism in Europe: 70 Years Later,” which, Novaya Gazeta reports, had a transparent agenda of promoting the myth of a neofascist takeover in Ukraine. Presumably with a straight face, he declared that “fascism is rearing its head worldwide.”
If Ukraine’s fledgling democracy survives the Russian threat, its extremist problem will likely be contained. Not so in Russia, where the rot of far-right nationalism currently starts at the top.
Ali pa morda kaj novejšega?
Saur-mohyla včeraj, najvišja točka v regiji in lokacija, ki jo je verjetno branila zračna obramba, ki je sklatila MH17.
Par neandertalcev s strelnim orožjem, nič novega. Pozornost prosim posvetite zastavi ki je vidna npr. pri :07. Rdeča zastava z belim krogom. Sumljivo že samo po sebi.
Logo v belem?
Ruska nacionalna enotnost
Že omenjeni fašisti, ki imajo sicer precej bolj jasen simbol
a so se za svoje delovanje v Donbasu maskirali.
Kaj Žižek poreče na vse skupaj?
Barbarism with a Human Face
The entire European neo-fascist right (in Hungary, France, Italy, Serbia) firmly supports Russia in the ongoing Ukrainian crisis, giving the lie to the official Russian presentation of the Crimean referendum as a choice between Russian democracy and Ukrainian fascism. The events in Ukraine – the massive protests that toppled Yanukovich and his gang – should be understood as a defence against the dark legacy resuscitated by Putin. The protests were triggered by the Ukrainian government’s decision to prioritise good relations with Russia over the integration of Ukraine into the European Union. Predictably, many anti-imperialist leftists reacted to the news by patronising the Ukrainians: how deluded they are still to idealise Europe, not to be able to see that joining the EU would just make Ukraine an economic colony of Western Europe, sooner or later to go the same way as Greece. In fact, Ukrainians are far from blind about the reality of the EU. They are fully aware of its troubles and disparities: their message is simply that their own situation is much worse. Europe may have problems, but they are a rich man’s problems.
...
The Maidan protesters were heroes, but the true fight – the fight for what the new Ukraine will be – begins now, and it will be much tougher than the fight against Putin’s intervention. A new and riskier heroism will be needed. It has been shown already by those Russians who oppose the nationalist passion of their own country and denounce it as a tool of power. It’s time for the basic solidarity of Ukrainians and Russians to be asserted, and the very terms of the conflict rejected. The next step is a public display of fraternity, with organisational networks established between Ukrainian political activists and the Russian opposition to Putin’s regime. This may sound utopian, but it is only such thinking that can confer on the protests a truly emancipatory dimension. Otherwise, we will be left with a conflict of nationalist passions manipulated by oligarchs. Such geopolitical games are of no interest whatever to authentic emancipatory politics.
Prispevek Duginovega privrženca:
Behind the Ukranian Crisis: Alexander Dugin, Eurasianism, and the Nouvelle Droite
The question of the hour is; what is Russia doing and why? The Russian strategy is grounded in the geopolitical agenda of Eurasianism. As the name implies, Eurasianism is a projected political alliance between the nations of Europe and Asia (including Russia and the Islamic world) designed to counteract what is termed the “Atlanticism” of American-European Union objectives/agendas. Eurasianism has a long history stretching back to the 1920’s Russian émigré community, where many of its ideas were formed. However the man most closely associated with the doctrine today as well as responsible for its modern form is Alexander Dugin.
Dugin was born on January 7th, 1962 in Moscow. In his youth, he worked as a journalist and became involved in Pamyat, an Orthodox-Christian nationalist group and later the National Bolshevik Party and then eventually with Vladimir Putin’s political machine. In 2001, Dugin formed the Eurasia Party and the Eurasia Movement. Supported by both the government and Orthodox-Christian establishment in Russia, Alexander Dugin’s Eurasia Movement stands on the threshold of a seismic shift in world power. He is truly one of the handful of people whom are actively contributing to and affecting the historical process unfolding before our eyes. His 1997 book, “Foundations of Geopolitics” has been very influential in elite circles within the Russian government and lays out his geopolitical strategy. The Eurasian Party is the political entity pursuing the goals enumerated in Foundations.
The Eurasia Movement can be described as a branch of the Nouvelle Droit or New Right, which is a collective of philosophers and political parties across Europe and America whom oppose the forces of modernity, given form in the doctrines of Cultural Marxism and stand for the restoration of European traditionalism. The Nouvelle Droit advocates a complete break from the left-right political dichotomy entrenched in liberal Western democracies. Instead it incorporates useful facets of both as well as novel approaches of its own, constituting a political third or in some cases, fourth position; a kind of syncretism. Key individuals in this movement include Alain deBenoist, Tomislav Sunic, Guillaume Faye, Michael O’Meara and of course Alexander Dugin. Key political parties include the German National Democratic Party, the British National Party, the Golden Dawn of Greece, Jobbik of Hungary and the National Front of France.
In addition, the Eurasian Movement incorporates the ideas of Jean-François Thiriart, whom advocated self-determination for the peoples of the world and a pan-European outlook, a kind of Europe-wide nationalism for the European peoples.The agenda of the Eurasian Movement can be summarized as intended to form axes of power throughout the world by which American world hegemony can be undermined and ultimately displaced by a Finlandized Europe where larger and more powerful nations have a sphere of influence over smaller nations. In the words of Dugin, Europe would be united in common cause “from Lisbon to Vladivostok”. Specifically Dugin’s book, Foundations of Geopolitics and the English language condensed version; The Fourth Political Theory, outline several prescriptions of this type, among them:
In Europe:
Germany should be offered the de facto political dominance over most Protestant and Catholic states located within Central and Eastern Europe. Kaliningrad oblast could be given back to Germany. The book uses the term a "Moscow-Berlin axis".
France should be encouraged to form a "Franco-German bloc" with Germany as both countries have a "firm anti-Atlanticist tradition".
The United Kingdom should be cut off from Europe.
Finland should be absorbed into Russia. Southern Finland will be combined with the Republic of Karelia and northern Finland will be "donated to Murmansk Oblast".
Estonia should be given to Germany's sphere of influence.
Latvia and Lithuania should be given a "special status" in the Eurasian-Russian sphere.
Poland should be granted a "special status" in the Eurasian sphere.
Romania, Macedonia, "Serbian Bosnia" and Greece - "orthodox collectivist East" - will unite with "Moscow the Third Rome" and reject the "rational-individualistic West".
Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "Ukraine as an independent state with certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia and, without resolving the Ukrainian problem, it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics". Ukraine should not be allowed to remain independent, unless it is cordon sanitaire, which would be inadmissible.
In the Middle East and Central Asia:
The book stresses the "continental Russian-Islamic alliance" which lies "at the foundation of anti-Atlanticist strategy". The alliance is based on the "traditional character of Russian and Islamic civilization".
Iran is a key ally. The book uses the term "Moscow-Tehran axis".
Armenia has a special role and will serve as a "strategic base" and it is necessary to create "the [subsidiary] axis Moscow-Erevan-Teheran". Armenians "are an Aryan people ... [like] the Iranians and the Kurds".
Azerbaijan could be "split up" or given to Iran.
Georgia should be dismembered. Abkhazia and "United Ossetia" (which includes Georgia's South Ossetia) will be incorporated into Russia. Georgia's independent policies are unacceptable.
Russia needs to create "geopolitical shocks" within Turkey. These can be achieved by employing Kurds, Armenians and other minorities.
The book regards the Caucasus as a Russian territory, including "the eastern and northern shores of the Caspian (the territories of Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan)" and Central Asia (mentioning Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kirghistan and Tajikistan).
In Asia:
China, which represents a danger to Russia, "must, to the maximum degree possible, be dismantled". Russia should offer China help "in a southern direction – Indochina (except Vietnam), the Philippines, Indonesia, Australia".
Russia should manipulate Japanese politics by offering the Kuril Islands to Japan and provoking anti-Americanism.
Mongolia should be absorbed into Eurasia-Russia.
The book emphasizes that Russia must spread Anti-Americanism everywhere: "the main ‘scapegoat’ will be precisely the U.S."
In the United States:
Russia should use its special forces within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism. For instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics."
The Eurasian Project could be expanded to South and Central America.
The Eurasian Movement seeks to achieve its ends not necessarily militarily but instead through non-violent means. Cooperation with and mutual respect between traditionalist societies around the world would be used in order to undermine the Americanism which currently dominates global politics and culture.
Še enkrat, za lene:
The agenda of the Eurasian Movement can be summarized as intended to form axes of power throughout the world by which American world hegemony can be undermined and ultimately displaced by a Finlandized Europe where larger and more powerful nations have a sphere of influence over smaller nations.
Rusija govori o kijevskih fašistih, o svojih pa noče nič vedet, čeprav ima mnogo večji problem s skrajno desnico kot Ukrajina.
Ni dvoma, da v Ukrajini obstaja (nasilna) skrajna desnica, tako kot v praktično vseh ostalih državah in tega tudi nihče ne zanika. To jim je recimo uspelo prejšnji teden:
Ukrainian intellectual was attacked by paramilitary right-wing thugs in Kyiv
Ampak samo ena država v Evropi ima skrajno desnega uradnega ideologa in ideologijo. Rusija. (Dugin, Evrazijaizem/Tradicionalizem)
Samo ena država v Evropi podpira (tudi finančno) skrajno desna gibanja v preostanku sveta. Rusija. (Praktično vso evropsko skrajno desnico, sploh če je parlamentarna, v ZDA par white-power gibanj, anti-abortion/anti-gay/defense of family aktiviste in funny enough krog libertarcev okrog Ron Paula)
Zdaj pa še malo dodajmo k zbirki. Recimo:
ali morda
Who Are You Calling Fascist?
Putin’s Russia is in no position to criticize Ukraine.
Far-right extremism in Ukraine is indeed a worrisome problem. But the alarmist narrative of “neofascists in Kiev” is vastly exaggerated, more often than not with the blatant goal of discrediting a pro-democracy, pro-Western government—a bias all the more glaring when the alarmists ignore the rise of de facto fascism in Vladimir Putin’s Russia and its startling connections to ultra-right nationalism in Europe.
Concerns about the political ascendancy of militant Ukrainian nationalism generally focus on two groups: Svoboda (Freedom), a far-right party which advocates some patently illiberal policies—including a ban on what it deems anti-Ukrainian hate speech—and whose leaders have a history of xenophobic comments; and Right Sector, an armed militia that gained prominence in the Maidan protesters’ defense against government riot squads. (Vyacheslav Likhachev, a Russian-Jewish journalist and monitor for the Euro-Asian Jewish Congress, has estimated that only about 1 percent of the demonstrators were “radical nationalists.”)
...
The encouraging news is that popular support for the far right is negligible; in a March 26 poll, 2.5 percent of likely voters in the May 25 presidential election said they would vote for Svoboda leader Oleg Tyahnibok and just 1.4 percent for Yarosh. Moreover, Ukraine’s current leadership is clearly determined to curb its influence. A Svoboda-driven bill that would have effectively made Ukrainian the country’s sole official language was promptly vetoed by interim president Oleksandr Turchynov (a fact ignored in several subsequent articles in the American press that cited the language law as a Svoboda success). In late March, one of the top Svoboda-affiliated cabinet members, Defense Minister Ihor Tenyukh, resigned under pressure and was replaced with a nonpartisan career military man. It should be noted that Ukraine’s Jewish leaders are strongly supportive of the new government, in which several key posts are held by Jewish politicians.
Writing in Novaya Gazeta, one of Russia’s surviving dissident media outlets, journalist Alexander Lipsky has pointed out that smearing opponents as “fascist” was a standard Soviet propaganda ploy. Its revival is particularly ironic today, when some Russians using this slur may fit it far better than their targets do. Take Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, who recently lamented on Twitter that Ukrainians, his Soviet-era compatriots, had turned to “Nazis all around.” Rogozin first entered politics as a leader of the nationalist bloc Rodina (Motherland), which got booted from local Moscow elections in 2005 over an ad—featuring Rogozin himself—that used blatantly racist caricatures of Azerbaijani migrants. In 2011, he was the subject of a glowing tribute on the American “white identity” site Occidental Observer.
A far more sinister figure is Alexander Dugin, founder of the “Eurasian movement,” which defines its mission as opposing “liberal hegemony” and modernity. In the 1990s, Dugin, a college dropout active in marginal ultranationalist groups, wrote essays openly advocating fascism as a “third way” alternative to communism and capitalism. Dugin argued that real fascism had never been properly tried (an argument usually made on behalf of communism) and would eventually emerge in Russia; while disavowing the racist “excesses” of Nazism, he also praised the SS as an “intellectual oasis” in the Third Reich and fantasized about the rise of “a race of Nordic warrior priests.”
All this would make Dugin merely an odious crank if, by the mid-2000s, he had not emerged as a leading “intellectual” in Russia’s Putin-era political establishment, with ties to top politicians and members of the official media. Dropping the word “fascist,” he began to style himself a “traditionalist”; he also procured a Ph.D. and became the head of the Center for Conservative Studies at Moscow State University. In 2009, his International Eurasian Movement counted among its board members Alexander Torshin, Duma vice speaker and a leading figure in the ruling United Russia party, and Nikolai Yefimov, editor in chief of the army newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda (Red Star). Dugin was cited as an intellectual guru by Ivan Demidov, who headed United Russia’s ideology section in 2008, and currently serves as an adviser to the chairman of the State Duma, Sergei Naryshkin.
Dugin has long been a staunch foe of Ukraine’s independence and a champion of reclaiming Crimea for Russia. New evidence points to his direct involvement in fomenting unrest elsewhere in Ukraine. On March 31, a Eurasian Youth Movement leader, Oleg Bakhtiarov, was arrested in Kiev on charges of plotting attacks on the parliament; two days earlier, a video turned up online that showed Dugin giving tactical advice to Ekaterina Gubareva, a separatist activist in Donetsk, in an intercepted Skype conversation. (Gubareva’s husband, Pavel Gubarev, in detention after leading the takeover of a local government building, is an ex-member of Russian National Unity, a militant group with black uniforms and a swastika-like symbol.)
Amidst Russia’s current patriotic fervor, rhetoric with scarily fascistic overtones has gone increasingly mainstream. In his speech on the Crimea annexation, Putin called antiwar dissenters not only a “fifth column” but “national traitors,” a phrase that sounds as odd in Russian as it does in English and that some bloggers traced directly to Hitler’s “National-Verräter” in Mein Kampf. At times, this rhetoric has specifically singled out Jewish dissidents. In one eyebrow-raising moment, TV talk-show guest writer Alexander Prokhanov (a notorious peddler of anti-Semitic “journalism”) voiced bafflement at the Ukrainian revolution’s Jewish supporters who could be “bringing on a second Holocaust”—to which host Evelina Zakamskaya replied, “They brought on the first one, too.”
The Putin regime’s flirtation with fascism is not just domestic. A recent article by Northeastern University political scientist Mitchell Orenstein in Foreign Affairs documented extensive ties between the Kremlin and the nationalist extreme right in Europe, including Hungary’s Jobbik and Greece’s Golden Dawn. The “international observers” Moscow invited to the referendum in Crimea included Belgian neo-Nazi Luc Michel and former Polish MP Mateusz Piskorski, currently head of the European Center for Geopolitical Analysis, identified in a 2006 Anti-Defamation League report as a former “translator and publisher of hardcore Nazi material.” According to an exposé in a leading Polish newspaper, Gazeta Wyborcza, Piskorki’s magazine Odala, published in the late 1990s and early 2000s, openly praised Nazi Germany, featured Holocaust deniers, and called for a united Slavic empire as “the only hope for the White Race.”
In a particularly bizarre twist, Piskorski—a member of Dugin’s Eurasian movement—showed up as a speaker at a March 30 St. Petersburg international conference called “Neo-Fascism in Europe: 70 Years Later,” which, Novaya Gazeta reports, had a transparent agenda of promoting the myth of a neofascist takeover in Ukraine. Presumably with a straight face, he declared that “fascism is rearing its head worldwide.”
If Ukraine’s fledgling democracy survives the Russian threat, its extremist problem will likely be contained. Not so in Russia, where the rot of far-right nationalism currently starts at the top.
Ali pa morda kaj novejšega?
Saur-mohyla včeraj, najvišja točka v regiji in lokacija, ki jo je verjetno branila zračna obramba, ki je sklatila MH17.
Par neandertalcev s strelnim orožjem, nič novega. Pozornost prosim posvetite zastavi ki je vidna npr. pri :07. Rdeča zastava z belim krogom. Sumljivo že samo po sebi.
Logo v belem?
Ruska nacionalna enotnost
Že omenjeni fašisti, ki imajo sicer precej bolj jasen simbol
a so se za svoje delovanje v Donbasu maskirali.
Kaj Žižek poreče na vse skupaj?
Barbarism with a Human Face
The entire European neo-fascist right (in Hungary, France, Italy, Serbia) firmly supports Russia in the ongoing Ukrainian crisis, giving the lie to the official Russian presentation of the Crimean referendum as a choice between Russian democracy and Ukrainian fascism. The events in Ukraine – the massive protests that toppled Yanukovich and his gang – should be understood as a defence against the dark legacy resuscitated by Putin. The protests were triggered by the Ukrainian government’s decision to prioritise good relations with Russia over the integration of Ukraine into the European Union. Predictably, many anti-imperialist leftists reacted to the news by patronising the Ukrainians: how deluded they are still to idealise Europe, not to be able to see that joining the EU would just make Ukraine an economic colony of Western Europe, sooner or later to go the same way as Greece. In fact, Ukrainians are far from blind about the reality of the EU. They are fully aware of its troubles and disparities: their message is simply that their own situation is much worse. Europe may have problems, but they are a rich man’s problems.
...
The Maidan protesters were heroes, but the true fight – the fight for what the new Ukraine will be – begins now, and it will be much tougher than the fight against Putin’s intervention. A new and riskier heroism will be needed. It has been shown already by those Russians who oppose the nationalist passion of their own country and denounce it as a tool of power. It’s time for the basic solidarity of Ukrainians and Russians to be asserted, and the very terms of the conflict rejected. The next step is a public display of fraternity, with organisational networks established between Ukrainian political activists and the Russian opposition to Putin’s regime. This may sound utopian, but it is only such thinking that can confer on the protests a truly emancipatory dimension. Otherwise, we will be left with a conflict of nationalist passions manipulated by oligarchs. Such geopolitical games are of no interest whatever to authentic emancipatory politics.
Prispevek Duginovega privrženca:
Behind the Ukranian Crisis: Alexander Dugin, Eurasianism, and the Nouvelle Droite
The question of the hour is; what is Russia doing and why? The Russian strategy is grounded in the geopolitical agenda of Eurasianism. As the name implies, Eurasianism is a projected political alliance between the nations of Europe and Asia (including Russia and the Islamic world) designed to counteract what is termed the “Atlanticism” of American-European Union objectives/agendas. Eurasianism has a long history stretching back to the 1920’s Russian émigré community, where many of its ideas were formed. However the man most closely associated with the doctrine today as well as responsible for its modern form is Alexander Dugin.
Dugin was born on January 7th, 1962 in Moscow. In his youth, he worked as a journalist and became involved in Pamyat, an Orthodox-Christian nationalist group and later the National Bolshevik Party and then eventually with Vladimir Putin’s political machine. In 2001, Dugin formed the Eurasia Party and the Eurasia Movement. Supported by both the government and Orthodox-Christian establishment in Russia, Alexander Dugin’s Eurasia Movement stands on the threshold of a seismic shift in world power. He is truly one of the handful of people whom are actively contributing to and affecting the historical process unfolding before our eyes. His 1997 book, “Foundations of Geopolitics” has been very influential in elite circles within the Russian government and lays out his geopolitical strategy. The Eurasian Party is the political entity pursuing the goals enumerated in Foundations.
The Eurasia Movement can be described as a branch of the Nouvelle Droit or New Right, which is a collective of philosophers and political parties across Europe and America whom oppose the forces of modernity, given form in the doctrines of Cultural Marxism and stand for the restoration of European traditionalism. The Nouvelle Droit advocates a complete break from the left-right political dichotomy entrenched in liberal Western democracies. Instead it incorporates useful facets of both as well as novel approaches of its own, constituting a political third or in some cases, fourth position; a kind of syncretism. Key individuals in this movement include Alain deBenoist, Tomislav Sunic, Guillaume Faye, Michael O’Meara and of course Alexander Dugin. Key political parties include the German National Democratic Party, the British National Party, the Golden Dawn of Greece, Jobbik of Hungary and the National Front of France.
In addition, the Eurasian Movement incorporates the ideas of Jean-François Thiriart, whom advocated self-determination for the peoples of the world and a pan-European outlook, a kind of Europe-wide nationalism for the European peoples.The agenda of the Eurasian Movement can be summarized as intended to form axes of power throughout the world by which American world hegemony can be undermined and ultimately displaced by a Finlandized Europe where larger and more powerful nations have a sphere of influence over smaller nations. In the words of Dugin, Europe would be united in common cause “from Lisbon to Vladivostok”. Specifically Dugin’s book, Foundations of Geopolitics and the English language condensed version; The Fourth Political Theory, outline several prescriptions of this type, among them:
In Europe:
Germany should be offered the de facto political dominance over most Protestant and Catholic states located within Central and Eastern Europe. Kaliningrad oblast could be given back to Germany. The book uses the term a "Moscow-Berlin axis".
France should be encouraged to form a "Franco-German bloc" with Germany as both countries have a "firm anti-Atlanticist tradition".
The United Kingdom should be cut off from Europe.
Finland should be absorbed into Russia. Southern Finland will be combined with the Republic of Karelia and northern Finland will be "donated to Murmansk Oblast".
Estonia should be given to Germany's sphere of influence.
Latvia and Lithuania should be given a "special status" in the Eurasian-Russian sphere.
Poland should be granted a "special status" in the Eurasian sphere.
Romania, Macedonia, "Serbian Bosnia" and Greece - "orthodox collectivist East" - will unite with "Moscow the Third Rome" and reject the "rational-individualistic West".
Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "Ukraine as an independent state with certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia and, without resolving the Ukrainian problem, it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics". Ukraine should not be allowed to remain independent, unless it is cordon sanitaire, which would be inadmissible.
In the Middle East and Central Asia:
The book stresses the "continental Russian-Islamic alliance" which lies "at the foundation of anti-Atlanticist strategy". The alliance is based on the "traditional character of Russian and Islamic civilization".
Iran is a key ally. The book uses the term "Moscow-Tehran axis".
Armenia has a special role and will serve as a "strategic base" and it is necessary to create "the [subsidiary] axis Moscow-Erevan-Teheran". Armenians "are an Aryan people ... [like] the Iranians and the Kurds".
Azerbaijan could be "split up" or given to Iran.
Georgia should be dismembered. Abkhazia and "United Ossetia" (which includes Georgia's South Ossetia) will be incorporated into Russia. Georgia's independent policies are unacceptable.
Russia needs to create "geopolitical shocks" within Turkey. These can be achieved by employing Kurds, Armenians and other minorities.
The book regards the Caucasus as a Russian territory, including "the eastern and northern shores of the Caspian (the territories of Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan)" and Central Asia (mentioning Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kirghistan and Tajikistan).
In Asia:
China, which represents a danger to Russia, "must, to the maximum degree possible, be dismantled". Russia should offer China help "in a southern direction – Indochina (except Vietnam), the Philippines, Indonesia, Australia".
Russia should manipulate Japanese politics by offering the Kuril Islands to Japan and provoking anti-Americanism.
Mongolia should be absorbed into Eurasia-Russia.
The book emphasizes that Russia must spread Anti-Americanism everywhere: "the main ‘scapegoat’ will be precisely the U.S."
In the United States:
Russia should use its special forces within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism. For instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics."
The Eurasian Project could be expanded to South and Central America.
The Eurasian Movement seeks to achieve its ends not necessarily militarily but instead through non-violent means. Cooperation with and mutual respect between traditionalist societies around the world would be used in order to undermine the Americanism which currently dominates global politics and culture.
Še enkrat, za lene:
The agenda of the Eurasian Movement can be summarized as intended to form axes of power throughout the world by which American world hegemony can be undermined and ultimately displaced by a Finlandized Europe where larger and more powerful nations have a sphere of influence over smaller nations.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- predlagal izbris: _commandos_ ()
Double_J ::
Writing in Novaya Gazeta, one of Russia’s surviving dissident media outlets, journalist Alexander Lipsky has pointed out that smearing opponents as “fascist” was a standard Soviet propaganda ploy.
S tem se strinjam. Moramo vedeti, da obstajata dve vrsti fašistov: fašisti in anti-fašisti. Oboji so v gradnji "boljše družbe" sposobni pobiti na milijone ljudi, preden njihov eksperiment žalostno propade.
Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "Ukraine as an independent state with certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia and, without resolving the Ukrainian problem, it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics". Ukraine should not be allowed to remain independent, unless it is cordon sanitaire, which would be inadmissible.
Putin za časa svojega življenja ne bo več videl Ukrajine. Lahko si brez skrbi.
Dve šivanki...
Double_J ::
Pepca, velja tudi zate. "Never go full retard."
V pravice posameznika ni dovoljeno posegati.
Dve šivanki...
Smrekar1 ::
Tako kot to velja za vse, ki jih preganja ruska oblast. Čisto slučajno jih bolj strogo preverja davčna v spremstvu FSBja. Čisto slučajno. Tako kot če se čisto slučajno znajdeš na no-fly listi, ki se potem razdeli vsem policijam in tajnim službam po svetu.
Pa se čisto slučajno zastrupiš s Polonijem 210, ki ga čisto slučajno uporabljajo samo Rusi v svojem vesoljskem programu ane.
In? Sej legalna Kosovska regionalna oblast se leta 2008 tudi ne bi odcepiti. Je sedela v Beogradu, med tem ko se je defakto vlada odcepila. In kaj je bilo pol? Kosovo se je odcepilo. Tako kot Abhazija in Južna Osetija.
Ampak (poleg ostalih razlik) Rusija Kosova nikoli ni priznala, torej se s tem načinom ne strinja. Ne moreš trditi, da je bilo Kosovo ilegalno in ga uporabljati kot precendens kaj se sme delati. Ko bo Rusija priznala Kosovo ga lahko vlečeš ven in bomo iskali ključne razlike, do takrat mi zadošča to.
Tako kot nobene volitve v vojnem času. Ali pa volitve kjer moraš zaradi varnosti imeti oborožene policaje na voliščih.
Kul. Torej referendumi so bili farsa fašističnih okupacijskih sil moskovskega režima, ki želijo zavzeti del Ukrajine.
Lej, se ti opravičujem, sem nasedel lažni propagandi in nisem mislil s svojo glavo. Debatirala sva o svobodnih medijih ki v Rusiji poročajo v prid Putinu, med tem ko v ZDA mediji nikoli ne poročajo v prid oblasti. Razen kadar zganjajo propagando v korist oblasti: Media coverage of the Iraq War @ Wikipedia
Mediji v ZDA poročajo predvsem o tistem, kar se bo prodajalo. To je včasih propagandistično za vlado, včasih propagandistično proti vladi, kar dostikrat pa se približajo resnici (ŠOK! ne ravno). Ruski 'mediji' so večinoma vladna trobila, če kdaj poročajo o čem po pravici je to zgolj zato, ker je slučajno nekaj, kar bi pomagalo njihovi vladi, tudi resnično. To je bolj poredko, ampak se zgodi. ISIS je primer take izjeme.
Nobeden ne bo vprašal za najbolj šokantno ime? No pa vam bom vseeno povedal...
1. Madelyn Lee Payne Dunham
Za bonus pa vam povem še drugo najbolj šokantno ime...
2. Lia Soetoro
3. Big lie @ Wikipedia
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Smrekar1 ()
s6c-gEL ::
Kievska hunta dekonzervirala kontaminirana vojna vozila in tanke iz Černobila in jih poslala na fronto.
Kaj vse to potegne za sabo, lahko doženete sami.
Pri nas so SŽ iz muzeja potegnile nazaj v obratovanje Kenedijko (iz 1960) - ostale so leto prej prodali na jug.
Kievska hunta dekonzervirala kontaminirana vojna vozila in tanke iz Černobila in jih poslala na fronto.
Kaj vse to potegne za sabo, lahko doženete sami.
Tisto je verjetno že davno vse razpadlo :)
Kaj od besede "dekonzervirano" ne razumeš? Letos so Novorusi v Ukrajini samo vlili bencin in olje v tank IS-2 - ki je bil spomenik, na prostem in na podstavku - verjetno še od 50-ih prejšnega stoletja. Stvar je takoj vžgala in se odpeljala. Samo municijo za top je bilo verjetno malo težje nabaviti.
Konzervirane tanke iz osemdesetih je verjetno še lažje spraviti h sebi.
Da so bili tisti tanki demilitarizirani (odstranjen oklep, inštrumenti, top in tako dalje) si pozabil povedati.Taka škatla je dobra kvečjemu namesto traktorja ali Carmageddon pešcev.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenilo: s6c-gEL ()
Smrekar1 ::
jukoz ::
> Pa se čisto slučajno zastrupiš s Polonijem 210, ki ga čisto slučajno uporabljajo samo Rusi v svojem vesoljskem programu ane.
Res, skrajno neprijetno. Tako kot če se znajdeš na ameriškem no-fly spisku aka seznamu teroristov. In greš na dopust v Egipt, Tajsko, UK, ... Ugani kaj se ti lahko zgodi. Nič, malo pridržanja, izginotje v neki luknji brez dna, imenovani pripor za nedoločen čas. Isto je.
In ker že omenjaš polonij. Do letos je bila za UK to samo neka nepojasnjena neprijetnost. Sedaj so pa začeli novo preiskavo. Res so zgodni, ni kaj. Mislim da se boš strinjal, da jim očitno 2005 ni ustrezalo preiskovati, letos so pa po čudežu našli čas za to.
> Ampak (poleg ostalih razlik) Rusija Kosova nikoli ni priznala, torej se s tem načinom ne strinja. Ne moreš trditi, da je bilo Kosovo ilegalno in ga uporabljati kot precendens kaj se sme delati. Ko bo Rusija priznala Kosovo ga lahko vlečeš ven in bomo iskali ključne razlike, do takrat mi zadošča to.
Kosovo je ilegalno, tako kot Krim, Južna Osetija, ... Ampak to realnosti ne spremeni, in to je, da je Kosovo neodvisna republika, ki se ne bo nikoli vrnila pod Srbijo, prav tako Južna Osetija in Abhazija pod Gruzijo in da je Krim del Ruske Federacije in se ne bo vrnil pod Ukrajino. Tako eni kot drugi imajo močne zaveznike (Kosovo - NATO + EU, ostali R.F.).
> Kul. Torej referendumi so bili farsa fašističnih okupacijskih sil moskovskega režima, ki želijo zavzeti del Ukrajine.
Ne. Referendumi so bili farsa imperialističnih okupacijskih sil moskovskega režima, ki želijo zavzeti del Ukrajine.
Referendumi so bili nepošteni in nesvobodni, tako kot _VSE_ volitve v vojnem času. Torej tudi volitve npr v Bosni, kjer jih preverja SFOR, na Kosovu KFOR in v Afganistanu NATO, v Čečeniji pod nadzorom FSB in lokalnih mesarjev. Kjerkoli imaš volitve preverjane s strani varnostnih sil in nato zmaga tista stran, od katerih so varnostne sile, tako volitve so vredne točno nič.
> Mediji v ZDA poročajo predvsem o tistem, kar se bo prodajalo...
Isto kot ruski, poročajo to kar se prodaja. In če je vlada največji kupec (npr. oglasov), potem poročajo to kar želi vlada. Zakaj pa misliš da so novinarji Francoskega RTV skočili do stropa ko je Sarkozy sanjal o ukinitvi oglasov v javnih medijih: ker bi bili potem popolna odvisni od vlade. Sej imamo tudi pri nas tak primer, ko so pod prvo vlado JJ državne firme prekinile z oglaševanjem v vladi neprijetnih medijih in besno oglaševali v brezplačnikih, pod zadnjo pa kar ustanovili svojo TV (Planet).
Sej midva nimava tako različnih pogledov, samo širina ti manjka. ;-)
Res, skrajno neprijetno. Tako kot če se znajdeš na ameriškem no-fly spisku aka seznamu teroristov. In greš na dopust v Egipt, Tajsko, UK, ... Ugani kaj se ti lahko zgodi. Nič, malo pridržanja, izginotje v neki luknji brez dna, imenovani pripor za nedoločen čas. Isto je.
In ker že omenjaš polonij. Do letos je bila za UK to samo neka nepojasnjena neprijetnost. Sedaj so pa začeli novo preiskavo. Res so zgodni, ni kaj. Mislim da se boš strinjal, da jim očitno 2005 ni ustrezalo preiskovati, letos so pa po čudežu našli čas za to.
> Ampak (poleg ostalih razlik) Rusija Kosova nikoli ni priznala, torej se s tem načinom ne strinja. Ne moreš trditi, da je bilo Kosovo ilegalno in ga uporabljati kot precendens kaj se sme delati. Ko bo Rusija priznala Kosovo ga lahko vlečeš ven in bomo iskali ključne razlike, do takrat mi zadošča to.
Kosovo je ilegalno, tako kot Krim, Južna Osetija, ... Ampak to realnosti ne spremeni, in to je, da je Kosovo neodvisna republika, ki se ne bo nikoli vrnila pod Srbijo, prav tako Južna Osetija in Abhazija pod Gruzijo in da je Krim del Ruske Federacije in se ne bo vrnil pod Ukrajino. Tako eni kot drugi imajo močne zaveznike (Kosovo - NATO + EU, ostali R.F.).
> Kul. Torej referendumi so bili farsa fašističnih okupacijskih sil moskovskega režima, ki želijo zavzeti del Ukrajine.
Ne. Referendumi so bili farsa imperialističnih okupacijskih sil moskovskega režima, ki želijo zavzeti del Ukrajine.
Referendumi so bili nepošteni in nesvobodni, tako kot _VSE_ volitve v vojnem času. Torej tudi volitve npr v Bosni, kjer jih preverja SFOR, na Kosovu KFOR in v Afganistanu NATO, v Čečeniji pod nadzorom FSB in lokalnih mesarjev. Kjerkoli imaš volitve preverjane s strani varnostnih sil in nato zmaga tista stran, od katerih so varnostne sile, tako volitve so vredne točno nič.
> Mediji v ZDA poročajo predvsem o tistem, kar se bo prodajalo...
Isto kot ruski, poročajo to kar se prodaja. In če je vlada največji kupec (npr. oglasov), potem poročajo to kar želi vlada. Zakaj pa misliš da so novinarji Francoskega RTV skočili do stropa ko je Sarkozy sanjal o ukinitvi oglasov v javnih medijih: ker bi bili potem popolna odvisni od vlade. Sej imamo tudi pri nas tak primer, ko so pod prvo vlado JJ državne firme prekinile z oglaševanjem v vladi neprijetnih medijih in besno oglaševali v brezplačnikih, pod zadnjo pa kar ustanovili svojo TV (Planet).
Sej midva nimava tako različnih pogledov, samo širina ti manjka. ;-)
s6c-gEL ::
Kosovo je ilegalno, tako kot Krim, Južna Osetija, ... Ampak to realnosti ne spremeni, in to je, da je Kosovo neodvisna republika, ki se ne bo nikoli vrnila pod Srbijo, prav tako Južna Osetija in Abhazija pod Gruzijo in da je Krim del Ruske Federacije in se ne bo vrnil pod Ukrajino. Tako eni kot drugi imajo močne zaveznike (Kosovo - NATO + EU, ostali R.F.).
Kosovo bo šlo prej pod Albanijo kot Srbijo.Never say never za ostale naštete.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenilo: s6c-gEL ()
Smrekar1 ::
Res, skrajno neprijetno. Tako kot če se znajdeš na ameriškem no-fly spisku aka seznamu teroristov. In greš na dopust v Egipt, Tajsko, UK, ... Ugani kaj se ti lahko zgodi. Nič, malo pridržanja, izginotje v neki luknji brez dna, imenovani pripor za nedoločen čas. Isto je.
In ker že omenjaš polonij. Do letos je bila za UK to samo neka nepojasnjena neprijetnost. Sedaj so pa začeli novo preiskavo. Res so zgodni, ni kaj. Mislim da se boš strinjal, da jim očitno 2005 ni ustrezalo preiskovati, letos so pa po čudežu našli čas za to.
Počasna in boleča smrt v primerjavi z malo daljšim zaslišanjem na letališču ali celo prepovedi, da nekam letiš z letalom? Ti to resno primerjaš?
Kosovo je ilegalno, tako kot Krim, Južna Osetija, ... Ampak to realnosti ne spremeni, in to je, da je Kosovo neodvisna republika, ki se ne bo nikoli vrnila pod Srbijo, prav tako Južna Osetija in Abhazija pod Gruzijo in da je Krim del Ruske Federacije in se ne bo vrnil pod Ukrajino. Tako eni kot drugi imajo močne zaveznike (Kosovo - NATO + EU, ostali R.F.).
Torej se strinjaš, da so ruska dejanja ilegalna? Kul.
Referendumi so bili nepošteni in nesvobodni, tako kot _VSE_ volitve v vojnem času. Torej tudi volitve npr v Bosni, kjer jih preverja SFOR, na Kosovu KFOR in v Afganistanu NATO, v Čečeniji pod nadzorom FSB in lokalnih mesarjev. Kjerkoli imaš volitve preverjane s strani varnostnih sil in nato zmaga tista stran, od katerih so varnostne sile, tako volitve so vredne točno nič.
Se ne strinjam, ampak dejstvo ostaja - referendumi v Donbasu niso vredni počenega groša, torej ruska dejanja nimajo nobene pravne ali moralne podlage.
Sej midva nimava tako različnih pogledov, samo širina ti manjka. ;-)
Ne, moja širina je čisto v redu, samo nekaj te moram vprašat: ali se torej zdaj strinjaš, da je Putin diktator, Obama pa ne?
Do zdaj si se namreč strinjal z vsem s čimer sem to utemeljeval.
jukoz ::
> Počasna in boleča smrt v primerjavi z malo daljšim zaslišanjem na letališču ali celo prepovedi, da nekam letiš z letalom? Ti to resno primerjaš?
Počasna in boleča smrt je zadela bivšega FSB vohuna. Bu-hu. Ki je pred tem delal kaj? Snemal kjut videe mačk in jih postal na internet? Bi rekel da ne.
Na, kle maš bolj znan primer kaj se zgodi ko se znajdeš na spisku: Khalid El-Masri @ Wikipedia
"Khalid El-Masri (also Khaled El-Masri[1] and Khaled Masri,[2] Levantine Arabic pronunciation: ['xa:l?d el'm?s?ri, -'m?s?re], Arabic: ???? ???????) (born June 29, 1963) is a German citizen who was mistakenly abducted by the Macedonian police, and handed over to the U.S. CIA. While in CIA custody, he was flown to Afghanistan, where he was held in a black site, interrogated, beaten, strip-searched, sodomized, and subjected to other inhuman and degrading treatment, which at times escalated to torture.[3][4][5][6][7] After El-Masri held hunger strikes, and was detained for four months in the "Salt Pit", the CIA finally admitted his arrest and torture were a mistake and released him.[8] He is believed to be among an estimated 3,000 detainees whom the CIA has abducted from 2001-2005.[2]"
In ja, je razlika. Ker če je ne vidiš se ne pritožuj ko te bodo na dopustu v [kerakolidržavažepač] (ali pa pri nas) pohopali in zaprli za nedoločen čas, ker so se slučajno zmotili.
> Torej se strinjaš, da so ruska dejanja ilegalna? Kul.
Ilegalna, legalna, nima veze.
Ruski parlament jih je naredil legalna. Na mednarodno pravo se pa vse velike države (hint: okupacija Iraka) poserjejo, tako kot se je Rusija pri priključitvi Krima. In kaj, bodo UK in ZDA bentili: joj grdi rusi, kaj ste naredili!. Še enkrat: bu-hu
Med hladno vojno so pazili da se ni dalo nič dokazati (spomni se Iran - kontra, ki je iz današnjega vidika eno samo kompliciranje), nekako od bombardiranja Jugoslavije se pa noben več ne trudi kaj dosti. OK, razen Izraela, oni imajo vedno pravico do "samoobrambe", med drugim tudi s pobijanjem fizikov po Iranu.
> Se ne strinjam, ampak dejstvo ostaja - referendumi v Donbasu niso vredni počenega groša, torej ruska dejanja nimajo nobene pravne ali moralne podlage.
Kako se ne strinjaš? Afganistan ima poštene in svobodne volitve? Kosovo ima poštene in svobodne volitve? V Čečeniji je in bo Kadirov vedno zmagal pošteno? Res, s tem se strinjaš? Bravo, res bravo.
Glede referendumov pa spet: bu-hu. Lokalna oblast jih je potrdila in to je to. Dokler bo Rusija skrbela da ne bo prišlo do vojaškega vmešavanja bodo oni čist OK.
> Ne, moja širina je čisto v redu, samo nekaj te moram vprašat: ali se torej zdaj strinjaš, da je Putin diktator, Obama pa ne?
Tebe matra to da vidiš svet črno-bel, in trenuto verjameš da so rusi črni in ameri beli. Resnica je pa bolj kompleksna. In ne, ne Putin ne Obama nista diktatorja ali pa sta oba. Izvoljena sta bila oba. V poštenost volitev Rusiji lahko dvomiš ene toliko kot v ZDA (neki bizarni elektroski glasovi itd - Bush vs Gore fiasko) ampak ne poznam volilnih sistemov. Oba sledita državljanom svojih in drugih držav (Snowden; razkriti pogovori med veleposlanikom ZDA in Lundlovo(?)), izginjujejo svoje nasprotnike, ...
> Do zdaj si se namreč strinjal z vsem s čimer sem to utemeljeval.
Ne, jaz ti pravi da sta oba govno. Ti pa si domišljaš da če nekdo ni za Obamo mora pa nujno biti za Putina.
Pa še to: ne ZDA ne Ruska Federacija ne moreta biti fašistični državi. Vojaški diktaturi že, fašistični pa ne, ker je prebivalstvo preveč razdrobljeno oz ena etnična skupina ne more nadvladati nad drugo. Tako ZDA kot Ruska Federacija bi razpadli. Priporočam v branje tvorjenje Ruske Federacije in razloge za prvo vojno v Čečeniji.
> Kosovo bo šlo prej pod Albanijo kot Srbijo.Never say never za ostale naštete.
Po mirni poti po vsej verjetnosti ne.
Počasna in boleča smrt je zadela bivšega FSB vohuna. Bu-hu. Ki je pred tem delal kaj? Snemal kjut videe mačk in jih postal na internet? Bi rekel da ne.
Na, kle maš bolj znan primer kaj se zgodi ko se znajdeš na spisku: Khalid El-Masri @ Wikipedia
"Khalid El-Masri (also Khaled El-Masri[1] and Khaled Masri,[2] Levantine Arabic pronunciation: ['xa:l?d el'm?s?ri, -'m?s?re], Arabic: ???? ???????) (born June 29, 1963) is a German citizen who was mistakenly abducted by the Macedonian police, and handed over to the U.S. CIA. While in CIA custody, he was flown to Afghanistan, where he was held in a black site, interrogated, beaten, strip-searched, sodomized, and subjected to other inhuman and degrading treatment, which at times escalated to torture.[3][4][5][6][7] After El-Masri held hunger strikes, and was detained for four months in the "Salt Pit", the CIA finally admitted his arrest and torture were a mistake and released him.[8] He is believed to be among an estimated 3,000 detainees whom the CIA has abducted from 2001-2005.[2]"
In ja, je razlika. Ker če je ne vidiš se ne pritožuj ko te bodo na dopustu v [kerakolidržavažepač] (ali pa pri nas) pohopali in zaprli za nedoločen čas, ker so se slučajno zmotili.
> Torej se strinjaš, da so ruska dejanja ilegalna? Kul.
Ilegalna, legalna, nima veze.
Ruski parlament jih je naredil legalna. Na mednarodno pravo se pa vse velike države (hint: okupacija Iraka) poserjejo, tako kot se je Rusija pri priključitvi Krima. In kaj, bodo UK in ZDA bentili: joj grdi rusi, kaj ste naredili!. Še enkrat: bu-hu
Med hladno vojno so pazili da se ni dalo nič dokazati (spomni se Iran - kontra, ki je iz današnjega vidika eno samo kompliciranje), nekako od bombardiranja Jugoslavije se pa noben več ne trudi kaj dosti. OK, razen Izraela, oni imajo vedno pravico do "samoobrambe", med drugim tudi s pobijanjem fizikov po Iranu.
> Se ne strinjam, ampak dejstvo ostaja - referendumi v Donbasu niso vredni počenega groša, torej ruska dejanja nimajo nobene pravne ali moralne podlage.
Kako se ne strinjaš? Afganistan ima poštene in svobodne volitve? Kosovo ima poštene in svobodne volitve? V Čečeniji je in bo Kadirov vedno zmagal pošteno? Res, s tem se strinjaš? Bravo, res bravo.
Glede referendumov pa spet: bu-hu. Lokalna oblast jih je potrdila in to je to. Dokler bo Rusija skrbela da ne bo prišlo do vojaškega vmešavanja bodo oni čist OK.
> Ne, moja širina je čisto v redu, samo nekaj te moram vprašat: ali se torej zdaj strinjaš, da je Putin diktator, Obama pa ne?
Tebe matra to da vidiš svet črno-bel, in trenuto verjameš da so rusi črni in ameri beli. Resnica je pa bolj kompleksna. In ne, ne Putin ne Obama nista diktatorja ali pa sta oba. Izvoljena sta bila oba. V poštenost volitev Rusiji lahko dvomiš ene toliko kot v ZDA (neki bizarni elektroski glasovi itd - Bush vs Gore fiasko) ampak ne poznam volilnih sistemov. Oba sledita državljanom svojih in drugih držav (Snowden; razkriti pogovori med veleposlanikom ZDA in Lundlovo(?)), izginjujejo svoje nasprotnike, ...
> Do zdaj si se namreč strinjal z vsem s čimer sem to utemeljeval.
Ne, jaz ti pravi da sta oba govno. Ti pa si domišljaš da če nekdo ni za Obamo mora pa nujno biti za Putina.
Pa še to: ne ZDA ne Ruska Federacija ne moreta biti fašistični državi. Vojaški diktaturi že, fašistični pa ne, ker je prebivalstvo preveč razdrobljeno oz ena etnična skupina ne more nadvladati nad drugo. Tako ZDA kot Ruska Federacija bi razpadli. Priporočam v branje tvorjenje Ruske Federacije in razloge za prvo vojno v Čečeniji.
> Kosovo bo šlo prej pod Albanijo kot Srbijo.Never say never za ostale naštete.
Po mirni poti po vsej verjetnosti ne.
Smrekar1 ::
Tebe matra to da vidiš svet črno-bel, in trenuto verjameš da so rusi črni in ameri beli. Resnica je pa bolj kompleksna. In ne, ne Putin ne Obama nista diktatorja ali pa sta oba. Izvoljena sta bila oba.
Izvoljen je bil tudi Kim Jong Un, ali to pomeni, da so vse države enako demokratične kot Severna Koreja?
Seveda ne. To je pač tvoja fantazija.
V poštenost volitev Rusiji lahko dvomiš ene toliko kot v ZDA (neki bizarni elektroski glasovi itd - Bush vs Gore fiasko) ampak ne poznam volilnih sistemov. Oba sledita državljanom svojih in drugih držav (Snowden; razkriti pogovori med veleposlanikom ZDA in Lundlovo(?)), izginjujejo svoje nasprotnike, ...
Mhm, ja, potem pa svizec zavije čokolado v folijo ...
Če so volitve v ZDA nepoštene in bile obrnjene v prid Bushu, zakaj je zmagal njegov politični nasprotnik Obama in ne McCain?
Ne, jaz ti pravi da sta oba govno. Ti pa si domišljaš da če nekdo ni za Obamo mora pa nujno biti za Putina.
Tvoja izmišljotina.
Pa še to: ne ZDA ne Ruska Federacija ne moreta biti fašistični državi. Vojaški diktaturi že, fašistični pa ne, ker je prebivalstvo preveč razdrobljeno oz ena etnična skupina ne more nadvladati nad drugo. Tako ZDA kot Ruska Federacija bi razpadli.
ZDA morda res, v Rusiji je kar precej, no, Rusov. Nekje 81%. Več kot dovolj za nacistično vladavino, kot jo vidimo v Putinu.
Kaj slišim da vse države niso enake? Vau. Česa se bodo še spomnili, da je Zemlja okrogla?
jukoz ::
> Smrekar1
Najprej bom začel s tem, da me neizmerno veseli da se očitno strinjava vsaj v nekaj točkah:
- mediji se prodajo vsakemu ki plača - če tako nanese pa oblasti
- ni prav zapirati, mučiti in/ali pobijati ljudi zato ker se ne strinjajo z oblastjo
- mednarodno pravo velja samo za majhne, velike države se požvižgajo nanj
- nekatere volitve so farsa, o njih poštenosti in svobodi pa odloča zmagovalec
> Izvoljen je bil tudi Kim Jong Un, ali to pomeni, da so vse države enako demokratične kot Severna Koreja? Seveda ne. To je pač tvoja fantazija.
Seveda ni. Kar pravim jaz je to, da je težko definirati kaj so poštene in svobodne volitve in da tega ne more razglasiti nekdo od zunaj, še manj pa nekdo ki stoji na volišču z orožjem.
> Če so volitve v ZDA nepoštene in bile obrnjene v prid Bushu, zakaj je zmagal njegov politični nasprotnik Obama in ne McCain?
Nimam pojma, verjamem pa da je bil pošteno izvoljen, tako kot v drugem mandatu Bush in v vseh mandatih Putin in v maju Porošenko. Verjetno je res večina glasovala za njih, tako kot je večina volila za odcepitev Krima in priključitev Ruski Federaciji. Referendumi v Donbasu so bolj riskantni, ker je veliko ljudi pobegnilo in ker so okoli hodile oborožene horde. Ampak sem prepričan da ljudje ki so oddali glasove so glasovali za odcepitev.
> Tvoja izmišljotina.
Ti si rekel da sem putinist.
> ZDA morda res, v Rusiji je kar precej, no, Rusov. Nekje 81%. Več kot dovolj za nacistično vladavino, kot jo vidimo v Putinu.
Ja, samo niso večina v vseh regijah. Če so se kaj naučili iz Čečenije je to, da je enotno državo z orožjem težko držati. Lažje je z denarjem. Še enkrat, preberi si formiranje Ruske Federacije.
> Kaj slišim da vse države niso enake? Vau. Česa se bodo še spomnili, da je Zemlja okrogla?
Ne boš verjel, so se že!
Najprej bom začel s tem, da me neizmerno veseli da se očitno strinjava vsaj v nekaj točkah:
- mediji se prodajo vsakemu ki plača - če tako nanese pa oblasti
- ni prav zapirati, mučiti in/ali pobijati ljudi zato ker se ne strinjajo z oblastjo
- mednarodno pravo velja samo za majhne, velike države se požvižgajo nanj
- nekatere volitve so farsa, o njih poštenosti in svobodi pa odloča zmagovalec
> Izvoljen je bil tudi Kim Jong Un, ali to pomeni, da so vse države enako demokratične kot Severna Koreja? Seveda ne. To je pač tvoja fantazija.
Seveda ni. Kar pravim jaz je to, da je težko definirati kaj so poštene in svobodne volitve in da tega ne more razglasiti nekdo od zunaj, še manj pa nekdo ki stoji na volišču z orožjem.
> Če so volitve v ZDA nepoštene in bile obrnjene v prid Bushu, zakaj je zmagal njegov politični nasprotnik Obama in ne McCain?
Nimam pojma, verjamem pa da je bil pošteno izvoljen, tako kot v drugem mandatu Bush in v vseh mandatih Putin in v maju Porošenko. Verjetno je res večina glasovala za njih, tako kot je večina volila za odcepitev Krima in priključitev Ruski Federaciji. Referendumi v Donbasu so bolj riskantni, ker je veliko ljudi pobegnilo in ker so okoli hodile oborožene horde. Ampak sem prepričan da ljudje ki so oddali glasove so glasovali za odcepitev.
> Tvoja izmišljotina.
Ti si rekel da sem putinist.
> ZDA morda res, v Rusiji je kar precej, no, Rusov. Nekje 81%. Več kot dovolj za nacistično vladavino, kot jo vidimo v Putinu.
Ja, samo niso večina v vseh regijah. Če so se kaj naučili iz Čečenije je to, da je enotno državo z orožjem težko držati. Lažje je z denarjem. Še enkrat, preberi si formiranje Ruske Federacije.
> Kaj slišim da vse države niso enake? Vau. Česa se bodo še spomnili, da je Zemlja okrogla?
Ne boš verjel, so se že!
Smrekar1 ::
Seveda ni. Kar pravim jaz je to, da je težko definirati kaj so poštene in svobodne volitve in da tega ne more razglasiti nekdo od zunaj, še manj pa nekdo ki stoji na volišču z orožjem.
Morda res, ampak kaj ima to veze z Obamo?
Nimam pojma, verjamem pa da je bil pošteno izvoljen, tako kot v drugem mandatu Bush in v vseh mandatih Putin in v maju Porošenko.
Zakaj si torej ven vlekel "sumljivo elektronsko glasovanje"?
Mimogrede, priznal si tudi, da Putin ima močan in nepošten vpliv na medije, ki ga Obama nima. Zdaj to ignoriraš. Zakaj?
Ja, samo niso večina v vseh regijah. Če so se kaj naučili iz Čečenije je to, da je enotno državo z orožjem težko držati.
Morda, ampak naučili so se tudi, da se to da. Zato pa lahko furajo nacizem.
Ne boš verjel, so se že!
NE!
Torej boš nehal z neumestnimi primerjavami?
jukoz ::
> Smrekar1
OK, napredujeva:
- mediji se prodajo vsakemu ki plača - če tako nanese pa oblasti
- ni prav zapirati, mučiti in/ali pobijati ljudi zato ker se ne strinjajo z oblastjo
- mednarodno pravo velja samo za majhne, velike države se požvižgajo nanj
- nekatere volitve so farsa, o njih poštenosti in svobodi pa odloča zmagovalec
- svet ni črno-bel
- vse države delajo bolj ali manj enako in iščejo koristi zase
> Morda res, ampak kaj ima to veze z Obamo?
Pojma nimam. Ti si omenil volitve v Severni Koreji, za katere se mi zdi da niso poštene, s čimer se strinjaš.
> Zakaj si torej ven vlekel "sumljivo elektronsko glasovanje"?
Elektorsko glasovanje - na volitvah volilci izvolijo neke elektroje al neki... Če prav razumem nimajo neposrednih volitev in glas volivca še ne pomeni glas za kandidata. Ampak spet, ne poznam njihovega volilnega sistema.
> Morda, ampak naučili so se tudi, da se to da. Zato pa lahko furajo nacizem.
Aha, zdej furajo že nacizem. Resno si se že izgubil.
> Torej boš nehal z neumestnimi primerjavami?
Tale dolga debata se je začela zato, ker si trdil da je Putin fašist in diktator in jaz sem ti rekel da mi pojasni razliko med njim in Obamo.
Skupno sva prišla do ugotovitve, da strašnih razlik med njima ni in da noben od njiju ni fašist. Bravo.
Ker sva totalno zablizila s teme predlagam da se oba cenzurirava: Če se strinjaš, predlagaj moje poste za izbris, jaz bom tvoje in je. Lahko pa to stori tudi admin.
OK, napredujeva:
- mediji se prodajo vsakemu ki plača - če tako nanese pa oblasti
- ni prav zapirati, mučiti in/ali pobijati ljudi zato ker se ne strinjajo z oblastjo
- mednarodno pravo velja samo za majhne, velike države se požvižgajo nanj
- nekatere volitve so farsa, o njih poštenosti in svobodi pa odloča zmagovalec
- svet ni črno-bel
- vse države delajo bolj ali manj enako in iščejo koristi zase
> Morda res, ampak kaj ima to veze z Obamo?
Pojma nimam. Ti si omenil volitve v Severni Koreji, za katere se mi zdi da niso poštene, s čimer se strinjaš.
> Zakaj si torej ven vlekel "sumljivo elektronsko glasovanje"?
Elektorsko glasovanje - na volitvah volilci izvolijo neke elektroje al neki... Če prav razumem nimajo neposrednih volitev in glas volivca še ne pomeni glas za kandidata. Ampak spet, ne poznam njihovega volilnega sistema.
> Morda, ampak naučili so se tudi, da se to da. Zato pa lahko furajo nacizem.
Aha, zdej furajo že nacizem. Resno si se že izgubil.
> Torej boš nehal z neumestnimi primerjavami?
Tale dolga debata se je začela zato, ker si trdil da je Putin fašist in diktator in jaz sem ti rekel da mi pojasni razliko med njim in Obamo.
Skupno sva prišla do ugotovitve, da strašnih razlik med njima ni in da noben od njiju ni fašist. Bravo.
Ker sva totalno zablizila s teme predlagam da se oba cenzurirava: Če se strinjaš, predlagaj moje poste za izbris, jaz bom tvoje in je. Lahko pa to stori tudi admin.
Double_J ::
Na, kle maš bolj znan primer kaj se zgodi ko se znajdeš na spisku: Khalid El-Masri @ Wikipedia
"Khalid El-Masri (also Khaled El-Masri[1] and Khaled Masri,[2] Levantine Arabic pronunciation: ['xa:l?d el'm?s?ri, -'m?s?re], Arabic: ???? ???????) (born June 29, 1963) is a German citizen who was mistakenly abducted by the Macedonian police, and handed over to the U.S. CIA. While in CIA custody, he was flown to Afghanistan, where he was held in a black site, interrogated, beaten, strip-searched, sodomized, and subjected to other inhuman and degrading treatment, which at times escalated to torture.[3][4][5][6][7] After El-Masri held hunger strikes, and was detained for four months in the "Salt Pit", the CIA finally admitted his arrest and torture were a mistake and released him.[8] He is believed to be among an estimated 3,000 detainees whom the CIA has abducted from 2001-2005.[2]"
Zanimivo je to, da Američani veliko lažje menjajo zavezništva od Rusov. Omar Suleiman je bil eden glavnih, ki je sodeloval v teh mučenjih teroristov. Ko Američanom ni več koristil, je bil umorjen na enak način kot Joan Rivers. Torej prevelik odmerek pomirjeval med operacijo v ZDA.
Omar Suleiman @ Wikipedia
Dve šivanki...
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Double_J ()
Double_J ::
Kar bi rad sporočil je, da ima ameriško vodstvo napačno percepcijo, da so takšne stvari v nacionalnem interesu ZDA. Nič kar je moralno narobe, ni v nacionalnem interesu ZDA.
Dve šivanki...
Vredno ogleda ...
| Tema | Ogledi | Zadnje sporočilo | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Tema | Ogledi | Zadnje sporočilo | |
| ⊘ | Izstop Rusije iz skupine G8Oddelek: Problemi človeštva | 4801 (3993) | bluefish |