Forum » Problemi človeštva » Rusija vs. Ukrajina aka. "Putin - še sladkih 16 let na oblasti?"
Rusija vs. Ukrajina aka. "Putin - še sladkih 16 let na oblasti?"
Temo vidijo: vsi
Lonsarg ::
To koliko ciljev je uničenih je na stotine miljonov vredna vojaška informacija, Rusi imajo namreč zelo boge posnetke tarč ki jih zadanejo in so laćni posnetkov in informacij iz Ukrajine. Skratka je čisto normalno da se take stvari blokira, ne samo iz propagandnih razlogov, čeprav tudi propaganda je del tega, vsekakor.
Je pa zahodna propaganda precej sneaky in ne delajo tako kot Rusi ko lažejo masovno da je očitno od daleč. Zhod zna lagati bolj po malen v manjši količini da je bolj belivelable. To sicer tudi pomeni da se "manj" zlažejo posredno, ker edino tako je belivable. Skratka recimo da javijo učinkovitost zračne 90% pa je v praksi 70%, za kaj več pa se ne bodo zlagali da ne izgubijo na belivability. Rusi nimajo take stila, oni se zlažejo 90% tudi če je 0%, ker njihova taktika je spam različnih informacij da noben več ne ve kaj je res, belivability pa ni cilj Ruske propagande.
Je pa zahodna propaganda precej sneaky in ne delajo tako kot Rusi ko lažejo masovno da je očitno od daleč. Zhod zna lagati bolj po malen v manjši količini da je bolj belivelable. To sicer tudi pomeni da se "manj" zlažejo posredno, ker edino tako je belivable. Skratka recimo da javijo učinkovitost zračne 90% pa je v praksi 70%, za kaj več pa se ne bodo zlagali da ne izgubijo na belivability. Rusi nimajo take stila, oni se zlažejo 90% tudi če je 0%, ker njihova taktika je spam različnih informacij da noben več ne ve kaj je res, belivability pa ni cilj Ruske propagande.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Lonsarg ()
gozdar1 ::
Noben normalen politik, ne bo pristal na to kar rusija zahteva razen če bi bil v to res primoran. Ukrajina ni v poziciji, da bi bila primorana.
Ozemlje in suverenost se ne prodaja kar tako.
Ozemlje in suverenost se ne prodaja kar tako.
Utk ::
Pa tudi Ukrajinci bi se verjetno malo zamislili in zahtevali končanje vojne, če bi se res zavedali vseh posledc te vojne. Bi rekel, da so v podobnem propagandnem mehurčku kot so bili Nemci med WW2.
WTF? Sej Ukrajinci zahtevajo končanje vojne. Zato pa tolčejo po Rusih. Mislim, kaka je to logika? Sej če komu ni do vojne, komot odmašira v Rusijo.
Pa še potrdijo, da je v Ukrajini prepovedano snemati in objavljati posledice ruskih napadov, SBU pa to aktivno nadzira.
Pravilno. Menda ne boš sovražniku nesel podatkov kaj je zadel in kaj ni, in je še zmeraj tam. Tako neumni so samo kadirovci.
Sheteentz ::
Jao bože mili, kako naivno in neumno razmišljanje, brez vsakršne vojaške logike. Vsaka pametna država bo prepovedala javno objavljanje raketiranj sovražne vojske. Pa ja ne boš dovoljeval, da sovražnik pride do takojšnjih posnetkov njihovega raketiranja?
Saj vsi Ukrajinci tudi dejansko zahtevajo končanje vojne. Zakaj pa misliš, da se upirajo Rusiji? Kako bo pa ti drugače nehal vojno, ko ti agresor zasede velik del države? A ti bi ga kar pustil kampirati na tvoji zzemlji?
Ljudje tukaj te obtožujejo, da lažeš. Jaz te javno obtožujem izrazitega mentalnega deficita!
Saj vsi Ukrajinci tudi dejansko zahtevajo končanje vojne. Zakaj pa misliš, da se upirajo Rusiji? Kako bo pa ti drugače nehal vojno, ko ti agresor zasede velik del države? A ti bi ga kar pustil kampirati na tvoji zzemlji?
Ljudje tukaj te obtožujejo, da lažeš. Jaz te javno obtožujem izrazitega mentalnega deficita!
AvtoR ::
Ukrajina nakon oštećenja Patriota u Kijevu: Blokirali smo web kamere u gradu - Index.hr https://www.index.hr/mobile/vijesti/cla...
V bistvu je to smiselno, ker je to "feedback" Rusom, material za analizo UA obrambe in zadetkov.
Če kdo živi v propagandnem mehurčku so to rusi!
Rambutan ::
To, da ne razkrivajo posledic ruskih napadov, je povsem normalno, isto verjetno tudi Rusi priznavajo svoje poraze kadar nimajo druge možnosti. Rusi pa za razliko od Ukijev ne cenzurirajo medijev, se je lepo videlo pri sestrelitvi letal in helikopterjev v Bryansku, ko je takoj prišlo v javnost in so še isti dan priznali. Ukrajinci pa vsako stvar najprej zanikajo in lažejo o 100% zračni obrambi, šele ko se ne da več zakrivat, pa priznajo. Primer je prizanje izgube Soledarja po 14 dneh, to, da je na Poljskem ubila traktoriste ukrajinska raketa, pa še zdaj niso priznali.
Večji problem je, ker Ukiji aktivno lažejo o svojih dosežkih in pretiravajo pri ruskih izgubah. Primer so lastne izgube, kjer gredo številke verjetno že proti 300.000 KIA. Če bi priznali te številke, ne bi skoraj nihče več podpiral nadaljnega boja, ampak bi zahtevali pogajanja. Še Borell je pa povedal, da bi se Ukrajina brez podpore Zahoda morala predati v parih dnevih. Tako da dejansko ukrajinska in zahodna propaganda samo podaljšujeta agonijo Ukrajine in povečujeta uničenje.
https://twitter.com/CheburekiMan/status...
Estimating Ukraine war casualties, based on citizen stats from the Khmelnitsky region:
? 11,000 fresh graves in the cemeteries of the region, belonging to soldiers of the AFU
? estimated population of region is 1,300,000
? dividing 1,300,000 by 11,000 yields a ratio of 1-in-118
? 2021 population of Ukraine was 41,000,000
? dividing 41,000,000 by 118 yields ~347,000
This of course assumes the Khmelnitsky region is a representative sample of Ukraine, but the 347,000 figure is in the ballpark of what other sources have claimed.
https://twitter.com/Spriter99880/status...
Borell: Without Western support, Ukraine would have to surrender in a few days
Večji problem je, ker Ukiji aktivno lažejo o svojih dosežkih in pretiravajo pri ruskih izgubah. Primer so lastne izgube, kjer gredo številke verjetno že proti 300.000 KIA. Če bi priznali te številke, ne bi skoraj nihče več podpiral nadaljnega boja, ampak bi zahtevali pogajanja. Še Borell je pa povedal, da bi se Ukrajina brez podpore Zahoda morala predati v parih dnevih. Tako da dejansko ukrajinska in zahodna propaganda samo podaljšujeta agonijo Ukrajine in povečujeta uničenje.
https://twitter.com/CheburekiMan/status...
Estimating Ukraine war casualties, based on citizen stats from the Khmelnitsky region:
? 11,000 fresh graves in the cemeteries of the region, belonging to soldiers of the AFU
? estimated population of region is 1,300,000
? dividing 1,300,000 by 11,000 yields a ratio of 1-in-118
? 2021 population of Ukraine was 41,000,000
? dividing 41,000,000 by 118 yields ~347,000
This of course assumes the Khmelnitsky region is a representative sample of Ukraine, but the 347,000 figure is in the ballpark of what other sources have claimed.
https://twitter.com/Spriter99880/status...
Borell: Without Western support, Ukraine would have to surrender in a few days
sparklyslo ::
Ukrajina nakon oštećenja Patriota u Kijevu: Blokirali smo web kamere u gradu - Index.hr https://www.index.hr/mobile/vijesti/cla...
SUSPILNE, javna ukrajinska televizija, prenosi da je sigurnosna služba Ukrajine (SBU) identificirala šest stanovnika Kijeva koji su tijekom ruskog raketnog napada na glavni grad "snimali rad ukrajinske protuzračne obrane i objavljivali fotografije i snimke na društvenim mrežama".
Pa še potrdijo, da je v Ukrajini prepovedano snemati in objavljati posledice ruskih napadov, SBU pa to aktivno nadzira.
BTW, ukinili so tudi vse TV poročanje, vse TV oddajajo isti informacijski program, ki ga ustvarja ukrajinska RTV.
Namen je pa ta, da se lahko potem lažejo o 100% učinkovitosti zračne obrambe. Pa tudi Ukrajinci bi se verjetno malo zamislili in zahtevali končanje vojne, če bi se res zavedali vseh posledc te vojne. Bi rekel, da so v podobnem propagandnem mehurčku kot so bili Nemci med WW2.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ci...
LVIV, Ukraine, March 20 (Reuters) - Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy has signed a decree that combines all national TV channels into one platform, citing the importance of a "unified information policy" under martial law, his office said in a statement on Sunday.
Ja to je pa rusofilski IQ...Seveda naj kamere kar v živo snemajo kje in kaksno orozje je parkirano po kijevskih ulicah, da ga bodo rusi lahko cim lažje zadeli. Naj jim posnamejo še podzemne hangarje s strelivom in lokacije vojakov ki se pripravljajo na ofenzivo?
TESKAn ::
? dividing 41,000,000 by 118 yields ~347,000
A poiščemo podatke za kako rusko vukojebino, kjer so mobilizirali vse moške in 'ekstrapoliramo', da ima rusija 1 milijon+ mrtvih?
Uf! Uf! Je rekel Vinetou in se skril za skalo,
ki jo je prav v ta namen nosil s seboj.
ki jo je prav v ta namen nosil s seboj.
sparklyslo ::
aja, včeraj sem prvič na cesti v Sloveniji videl nekega zelenga golfa, ki je imel na zadnjem steklu nalepljen velik bel Z. Rambutan?
Rambutan ::
sparklyslo je izjavil:
Ja to je pa rusofilski IQ...Seveda naj kamere kar v živo snemajo kje in kaksno orozje je parkirano po kijevskih ulicah, da ga bodo rusi lahko cim lažje zadeli. Naj jim posnamejo še podzemne hangarje s strelivom in lokacije vojakov ki se pripravljajo na ofenzivo?
Da jih ni mogoče sram priznati, da imajo nameščen Patriot sredi Kijeva pa streljajo rakete kot ognjemet sredi glavnega? Nihče se pa ne vpraša, kam padajo ostanki Patriotov. Seveda pa vse posledice tega divjega streljanja s protizračno pripišejo Rusom.
A missile from the Ukrainian air defense system MIM-104F Patriot PAC-3 of American production on the street of Kiev.
Lesoto ::
Estimating Ukraine war casualties, based on citizen stats from the Khmelnitsky region:
? 11,000 fresh graves in the cemeteries of the region, belonging to soldiers of the AFU
Sem prepričan, da boš dal kakšen dokaz za tole.
? 2021 population of Ukraine was 41,000,000
To si bomo zapomnili, da je Krim zopet v Ukrajini, pa miljonski Donetsk in vse ostalo pod okupacijo.
Borell: Without Western support, Ukraine would have to surrender in a few days
Še dobr da ima eastern support, saj veš Poljska in tako dalje...
sparklyslo ::
sparklyslo je izjavil:
Ja to je pa rusofilski IQ...Seveda naj kamere kar v živo snemajo kje in kaksno orozje je parkirano po kijevskih ulicah, da ga bodo rusi lahko cim lažje zadeli. Naj jim posnamejo še podzemne hangarje s strelivom in lokacije vojakov ki se pripravljajo na ofenzivo?
Da jih ni mogoče sram priznati, da imajo nameščen Patriot sredi Kijeva pa streljajo rakete kot ognjemet sredi glavnega? Nihče se pa ne vpraša, kam padajo ostanki Patriotov. Seveda pa vse posledice tega divjega streljanja s protizračno pripišejo Rusom.
A missile from the Ukrainian air defense system MIM-104F Patriot PAC-3 of American production on the street of Kiev.
Patriota postavijo tja, kamor mislijo, da je za obrambo najbolje. Če rusi ne bi pošiljali raket v središče Kijeva, potem tudi protiraketnih zmogljivosti ne bi bilo tam.
Sicer pa, kaj dela ruska AA zaščita na vrhu stavb v Moskviji.
Lesoto ::
"I'll do the same for Arlington in DC. 700 buried from afghan and Iraq of 700k population gives me 343k KIA in Iraq and Afghanistan in the US based on your math. Real number is around 7k."
Rambutan ::
? dividing 41,000,000 by 118 yields ~347,000
A poiščemo podatke za kako rusko vukojebino, kjer so mobilizirali vse moške in 'ekstrapoliramo', da ima rusija 1 milijon+ mrtvih?
Lahko poskušiš, če dobiš kako regijo z 2.5% prebivalstva, da bo vzorec tako reprezentativen, kot jo ima regija Khmelnitsky v Ukrajini.
Sicer pa že britanski BBC spremlja podatke o ruskih vojaških pogrebih, pa jim nikakor ne rata našteti dosti več od ruskih uradnih podatkov, pa verjemi da se trudijo.
https://meduza.io/en/news/2022/12/09/bb...
Estimating Ukraine war casualties, based on citizen stats from the Khmelnitsky region:
▪️ 11,000 fresh graves in the cemeteries of the region, belonging to soldiers of the AFU
▪️ estimated population of region is 1,300,000
▪️ dividing 1,300,000 by 11,000 yields a ratio of 1-in-118
▪️ 2021 population of Ukraine was 41,000,000
▪️ dividing 41,000,000 by 118 yields ~347,000
This of course assumes the Khmelnitsky region is a representative sample of Ukraine, but the 347,000 figure is in the ballpark of what other sources have claimed.
Lesoto ::
Še enkrat, podaj neodvisen dokaz o tem, ne neki proruski twitt acount.
+ zakaj imajo potem tuje obveščevalne agencije popolnoma drugačne številke
+ zakaj imajo potem tuje obveščevalne agencije popolnoma drugačne številke
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenilo: Lesoto ()
Rambutan ::
Še enkrat, podaj neodvisen dokaz o tem, ne neki proruski twitt acount.
+ zakaj imajo potem tuje obveščevalne agencije popolnoma drugačne številke
Seveda uradnih podatkov ni moč dobiti ker jih skrivajo. Ne vem, kakšne podatke imajo tuje obveščevalne, vem pa da če imajo resnične podatke, jih v javnost ne bodo dali. Lahko si pa na twitterju pogledaš posnetke ukrajinskih vojaških pokopališč.
https://twitter.com/search?q=ukraine%20...
Potem se spomni, kako so se lani hvalili, da bodo imeli lani poleti miljonsko vojsko. Zdaj si pa poglej na twitterju, kako po mestih lovijo moške za mobilizacijo.
https://twitter.com/search?q=ukraine%20...
Smrekar1 ::
https://twitter.com/CheburekiMan/status...
Estimating Ukraine war casualties, based on citizen stats from the Khmelnitsky region:
? 11,000 fresh graves in the cemeteries of the region, belonging to soldiers of the AFU
Na videu je pokazal ~200 grobov. Če naredimo isti izračun s popravkom za napačo pri štetju dobimo 6300 mrtvih za celo Ukrajino.
Moja ocena je boljša od njegove, ker ni osnovana na izmišljenih številkah.
Lesoto ::
Seveda uradnih podatkov ni moč dobiti ker jih skrivajo.
Človek, HOW THE FUCK, je ta twitt account potem prišel do teh podatkov??
Pa, spelji se že nekam s temi lažmi.
Ne vem, kakšne podatke imajo tuje obveščevalne, vem pa da če imajo resnične podatke, jih v javnost ne bodo dali.
Govorim predvsem o leaku iz Pentagona, ki ni bil mišljen da bi prišel v javnost.
Lahko si pa na twitterju pogledaš posnetke ukrajinskih vojaških pokopališč.
A ti misliš, da sem jaz 5 let star. Posnetki pokopališč ne povejo čisto nič. Lahko so notr ateti stari 80 let, ki so umrli naravne smrti.
Smrekar1 ::
Človek, HOW THE FUCK, je ta twitt account potem prišel do teh podatkov??
Gre za tretjerazrednega trola. Ima precej dolgov in Rusi so še edini, ki so take dripce še pripravljeni plačati. Še to slišim, da jim bolj kot ne samo obljubljajo plačila in ga bo ceneje razokniti kot plačati.
Rambutan ::
Zelenski je po izvolitvi za predsednika najbolj korumpirane evropske države prelomil vse predvolilne obljube. Zahodna propaganda nas je enako kot v Ukrajini prepričevala v WMD v Iraku, v demokratizacijo Afganista, Libije, Sirije. Vse se je izkazalo za laž. Če želite še naprej verjeti zahodni propagandi, je to vaša stvar, dvomim da bom koga prepričal v nasprotno.
Resnične številke o žrtvah v Ukrajini bomo zvedeli komaj po koncu vojne.
Spodaj je zanimiva zgodba o tem, kako je Kolomoyski sponzoriral predvolilno kampanjo Zelenskega preko TV serije Služabnik ljudstva in njegovih povezavah z Bidnom in naci bataljoni.
https://kanekoa.substack.com/p/how-one-...
Kolomoysky Owns Burisma Holdings
The real person who was the benefactor to, and the boss of, Vice President Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden, at the Ukrainian gas company Burisma Holdings, was not the CEO of Burisma Holdings, Mykola Zlochevsky.
Instead, it was Ihor Kolomoysky, who was part of the newly installed Ukrainian government, which the Obama Administration itself had just installed in Ukraine, in what the head of the "private CIA" firm Stratfor correctly called "the most blatant coup in history."
Shortly after the Obama Administration's Ukrainian coup, on March 2, 2014, Kolomoysky, who supported Yanukovych's overthrow, was appointed the governor of Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine. Hunter Biden, with no experience in the industry or region, would join Kolomoysky's Burisma Holdings two months later, on May 12, 2014.
A 2012 study of Burisma Holdings done in Ukraine by the AntiCorruption Action Centre (ANTAC), an investigative nonprofit co-funded by American billionaire George Soros and the U.S. State Department, found the valid owner of Burisma Holdings was none other than Ukrainian billionaire-oligarch Ihor Kolomoysky.
Resnične številke o žrtvah v Ukrajini bomo zvedeli komaj po koncu vojne.
Spodaj je zanimiva zgodba o tem, kako je Kolomoyski sponzoriral predvolilno kampanjo Zelenskega preko TV serije Služabnik ljudstva in njegovih povezavah z Bidnom in naci bataljoni.
https://kanekoa.substack.com/p/how-one-...
Kolomoysky Owns Burisma Holdings
The real person who was the benefactor to, and the boss of, Vice President Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden, at the Ukrainian gas company Burisma Holdings, was not the CEO of Burisma Holdings, Mykola Zlochevsky.
Instead, it was Ihor Kolomoysky, who was part of the newly installed Ukrainian government, which the Obama Administration itself had just installed in Ukraine, in what the head of the "private CIA" firm Stratfor correctly called "the most blatant coup in history."
Shortly after the Obama Administration's Ukrainian coup, on March 2, 2014, Kolomoysky, who supported Yanukovych's overthrow, was appointed the governor of Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine. Hunter Biden, with no experience in the industry or region, would join Kolomoysky's Burisma Holdings two months later, on May 12, 2014.
A 2012 study of Burisma Holdings done in Ukraine by the AntiCorruption Action Centre (ANTAC), an investigative nonprofit co-funded by American billionaire George Soros and the U.S. State Department, found the valid owner of Burisma Holdings was none other than Ukrainian billionaire-oligarch Ihor Kolomoysky.
yayo ::
Je pa zahodna propaganda precej sneaky in ne delajo tako kot Rusi ko lažejo masovno da je očitno od daleč. Zhod zna lagati bolj po malen v manjši količini da je bolj belivelable. To sicer tudi pomeni da se "manj" zlažejo posredno, ker edino tako je belivable. Skratka recimo da javijo učinkovitost zračne 90% pa je v praksi 70%, za kaj več pa se ne bodo zlagali da ne izgubijo na belivability. Rusi nimajo take stila, oni se zlažejo 90% tudi če je 0%, ker njihova taktika je spam različnih informacij da noben več ne ve kaj je res, belivability pa ni cilj Ruske propagande.
mislim, da rusi lažejo predvsem lastni javnosti, ker njihov sistem na temu bazira. Vedno bolj se pogrezajo v stanje kjer bo raja zmrzovala, sinovi in očetje se ne bodo vračali s fronte, tajkunske družine in družine politikov pa se bodo naprej v ogrevanih mercedsih vozile po velemestih na večerje s kaviarjem in šampanjcem. Tako stanje si prizadevajo zadržati.
shmandi ::
mackilla ::
Zelenski je po izvolitvi za predsednika najbolj korumpirane evropske države prelomil vse predvolilne obljube. Zahodna propaganda nas je enako kot v Ukrajini prepričevala v WMD v Iraku, v demokratizacijo Afganista, Libije, Sirije. Vse se je izkazalo za laž. Če želite še naprej verjeti zahodni propagandi, je to vaša stvar, dvomim da bom koga prepričal v nasprotno.
Resnične številke o žrtvah v Ukrajini bomo zvedeli komaj po koncu vojne.
Spodaj je zanimiva zgodba o tem, kako je Kolomoyski sponzoriral predvolilno kampanjo Zelenskega preko TV serije Služabnik ljudstva in njegovih povezavah z Bidnom in naci bataljoni.
https://kanekoa.substack.com/p/how-one-...
Kolomoysky Owns Burisma Holdings
The real person who was the benefactor to, and the boss of, Vice President Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden, at the Ukrainian gas company Burisma Holdings, was not the CEO of Burisma Holdings, Mykola Zlochevsky.
Instead, it was Ihor Kolomoysky, who was part of the newly installed Ukrainian government, which the Obama Administration itself had just installed in Ukraine, in what the head of the "private CIA" firm Stratfor correctly called "the most blatant coup in history."
Shortly after the Obama Administration's Ukrainian coup, on March 2, 2014, Kolomoysky, who supported Yanukovych's overthrow, was appointed the governor of Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine. Hunter Biden, with no experience in the industry or region, would join Kolomoysky's Burisma Holdings two months later, on May 12, 2014.
A 2012 study of Burisma Holdings done in Ukraine by the AntiCorruption Action Centre (ANTAC), an investigative nonprofit co-funded by American billionaire George Soros and the U.S. State Department, found the valid owner of Burisma Holdings was none other than Ukrainian billionaire-oligarch Ihor Kolomoysky.
Moskovija je najbolj skorumpirana država v Evropi. Seveda,če šteješ moskovitsko hordo za evropsko državo
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/202...
yayo ::
aja, Solovljev sedaj na tv propagira, da "sixty is the new thirtyfive". Današnji šestdesetletnik je fizično v enaki formi kot je bil leta 1944 petintridesetletnik. Kdo ve zakaj?
Lancet_brrr ::
Zelenski je po izvolitvi za predsednika najbolj korumpirane evropske države prelomil vse predvolilne obljube. Zahodna propaganda nas je enako kot v Ukrajini prepričevala v WMD v Iraku, v demokratizacijo Afganista, Libije, Sirije. Vse se je izkazalo za laž. Če želite še naprej verjeti zahodni propagandi, je to vaša stvar, dvomim da bom koga prepričal v nasprotno.
Pa si kdaj pomislil, da so Rusi tisti ki so napadli Ukrajino in ne obratno ?
Pa veš da so jo napadli že 2014, ko Zelenski sploh še ni bil predsednik ?
Mene in verjetno tudi večino ostalih boli kurac za Zelenskega. Veš zakaj ? Ker nam je normalno da se oblast menja. Včeraj Janez, danes Golb, jutri nekdo tretji. Ljubitelji Rusije pa imate velik problem, da ste čustveno navezani na enega velikega vodjo "Putina", ki bo očitno diktator for life.
Tako da se čisto preveč obremenjujete kaj je pa kaj ni Zelenski. Če Ukrajincem ne bo kul ga pač naslednjič ne bodo izvolili.
Mu pa štejem v plus to, da ni strahopetno pobegnil, ko so Rusi začeli invazijo.
Nismo marali za ameriško invazijo v Irak in še manj maramo za Rusko v Ukrajino. Zakaj še manj ? Ker nam je Ukrajina geografsko bližje, Putin pa ne skriva hrepenenja po nekdanji SZ.
In brezveze lepit onih tvoj X zahtev od Rusije do ukrajine, ker niso vredne pasjega kakca.
Rusija je vse dogovore prelomila že 2014, ko je zavzela Krim. Od takrat so pač ne vredni zaupanja.
1994 Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances
The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances refers to three identical political agreements signed at the OSCE conference in Budapest, Hungary on 5 December 1994. Among other things, the Memorandum promised that its signatories (the Russian Federation, the United States of America, and the United Kingdom) would respect Ukraine's existing borders.
Mikhail Gorbachev himself, in an interview with Rossiyskaya Gazeta and its foreign appendices, claiming that "the question of "NATO expansion" was not discussed at all in those years and did not arise".
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Lancet_brrr ()
gozdar1 ::
Ko se je vojna začela je bil od voditeljev na oblasti samo putin, ampak nekako je sedaj kriv zelenski.
Saj ne da je bila ruska taktika povsod enaka, najprej "mirni" protestniki, potem pa "kmetje in rudarji" na tankih in ko so ukrajinci odgovorili je na pomoč prišla še ruska vojska.
Ko je v odesi spodletelo so se rusi prelevili v velike žrtve.
Seveda so prvi prekršili minsk, ki so ga med drugim sami vsilil ukrajini ravno rusi.
Podobno je bil očino plan lani na hitro opraviti z ukrajino in njenim vodstvo, ter potem narain iz ukrajine novo belorusijo. Rusi zopet žrtve.
Saj ne da je bila ruska taktika povsod enaka, najprej "mirni" protestniki, potem pa "kmetje in rudarji" na tankih in ko so ukrajinci odgovorili je na pomoč prišla še ruska vojska.
Ko je v odesi spodletelo so se rusi prelevili v velike žrtve.
Seveda so prvi prekršili minsk, ki so ga med drugim sami vsilil ukrajini ravno rusi.
Podobno je bil očino plan lani na hitro opraviti z ukrajino in njenim vodstvo, ter potem narain iz ukrajine novo belorusijo. Rusi zopet žrtve.
fur80 ::
To, da ne razkrivajo posledic ruskih napadov, je povsem normalno, isto verjetno tudi Rusi priznavajo svoje poraze kadar nimajo druge možnosti. Rusi pa za razliko od Ukijev ne cenzurirajo medijev, se je lepo videlo pri sestrelitvi letal in helikopterjev v Bryansku, ko je takoj prišlo v javnost in so še isti dan priznali. Ukrajinci pa vsako stvar najprej zanikajo in lažejo o 100% zračni obrambi, šele ko se ne da več zakrivat, pa priznajo. Primer je prizanje izgube Soledarja po 14 dneh, to, da je na Poljskem ubila traktoriste ukrajinska raketa, pa še zdaj niso priznali.
Borell: Without Western support, Ukraine would have to surrender in a few days
Sedaj pa priznaj, a se ti delaš norca iz nas, ali se delaš iz sebe?
gozdar1 ::
Rusi setsrelitve MH-17 še danes niso priznali. Vseskozi so tudi zanikali vpletenost v dogajanja na vzhodu ukrajine.
Lancet_brrr ::
TL;DR
Rusi se izgovarjajo, da je Khrushchev šenkal "njihov" Krim Ukrajincem in so samo vzeli nazaj kar je njihovo.
Potem pa jokajo, da jih zahod ne mara, ker so napadli sosednjo državo in pri tem prelomili vse sporazume s to državo in mednarodno skupnostjo.
Rusi se izgovarjajo, da je Khrushchev šenkal "njihov" Krim Ukrajincem in so samo vzeli nazaj kar je njihovo.
Potem pa jokajo, da jih zahod ne mara, ker so napadli sosednjo državo in pri tem prelomili vse sporazume s to državo in mednarodno skupnostjo.
Pac-Man ::
BTW, ukinili so tudi vse TV poročanje, vse TV oddajajo isti informacijski program, ki ga ustvarja ukrajinska RTV.
Namen je pa ta, da se lahko potem lažejo o 100% učinkovitosti zračne obrambe.
Pa tudi Ukrajinci bi se verjetno malo zamislili in zahtevali končanje vojne, če bi se res zavedali vseh posledc te vojne. Bi rekel, da so v podobnem propagandnem mehurčku kot so bili Nemci med WW2.
Ti pa ne gledaš kaj preveč ruske televizije? Priporočam, da si kdaj vzameš malo časa za
https://www.youtube.com/@russianmediamo...
In da, Ukrajince definitivno skrbi, kaj se po internetih piše o učinkovitosti njihove zračne obrambe.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
Smrekar1 ::
Lancet_brrr je izjavil:
Rusi se izgovarjajo, da je Khrushchev šenkal "njihov" Krim Ukrajincem in so samo vzeli nazaj kar je njihovo.
No, Stalin je Ukrajini vzel Rostov na Donu in Krasnodar ter ju šenkal Rusiji. Verjetno jih ne bo motilo, če vzamejo nazaj kar je njihovo, kajne?
Rambutan ::
Nit o ruskem zavzetju ukrajinskih položajev pri kompresorski postaji v Spornem.
Zelo zanimiva je tudi video reportaža bojev, eden boljših vojnih video posnetkov v tej vojni.
https://twitter.com/ArmchairW/status/16...
Let's talk about Russian small-unit tactics on the offensive. With Russian troops stepping up attacks across the front in Ukraine, I suspect this will be very relevant in the near future.
A video came out recently which I will use to illustrate: t.me/DDGeopolitics/…🔗
This video was produced by journalists embedded with Russian troops near Spornoe, which I understand are a former LPR unit filled out by Russian reservists. These are ordinary motorized riflemen, not elite troops, equipped with BMP-1s and T-80BVs. 🔗
The producers do little to sugarcoat things, although they avoid showing anyone being killed on camera. They freely admit multiple vehicles were hit and at least one Russian tanker was killed during the attack. 🔗
They also have no problem showing moments that might be unflattering for the Russians, including two occasions where reversing vehicles collide with following vehicles.
What's one more dent on a tank? 🔗
The mission here was to seize a series of Ukrainian positions west of the Russian-held (but very much front-line) gas compressor station at Spornoye. I've marked them on the map as Strongpoints 1, 2 and 3. 🔗
The Russians attacked with a rather small company, apparently some 50 men in three platoons with one tank and two personnel carriers with infantry each. There seems to have been roughly the same number of Ukrainian defenders with at least one tank in support. 🔗
Russian troops in the area had made a habit of operating late in the day and at night rather than in the morning, and surprised the defenders by attacking at dawn. 🔗
The Russians attacked Strongpoint 1 first. It appears they moved infantry into the compressor station under darkness and launched the initial attack on foot, securing a foothold on the north side after suppressing the defenders.
Armor moved up in support after the first attack. 🔗
The infantry broke into two groups, one clearing the trenches while the other covered them against counterattacks coming from outside the trench system.
This was all done after the Ukrainians called down indirect fire on their own positions. 🔗
After the initial wave secured the north side of Strongpoint 1 a second platoon attacked to clear the south half.
This platoon moved up mounted on BMPs and led by a tank, avoiding Ukrainian mortar fire. 🔗
The tank pushed into position to fire directly into the Ukrainian-held ravine while the infantry dismounted, initially using a nearby ditch for cover. 🔗
The infantry directed the tank onto remaining pockets of resistance as they assaulted through the position.
With the strongpoint secure and the infantry established in place, the armored vehicles - which attract enemy fire - withdrew. 🔗
Another platoon was engaged as they moved up to attack Strongpoint 3, with at least one tank hit and disabled with the gunner killed.
A second tank was also hit, with the crew concussed, but pressed on to continue the attack. 🔗
To get to Strongpoint 3 they had to deal with Strongpoint 2, a bunker built into a collapsed building on the edge of the compressor station. The damaged tank approached and demolished it at point-blank range.
Russian infantry occupied the ruin shortly after. 🔗
That platoon then pushed on Strongpoint 3, suppressing the trenches with fire from tanks and BMPs and reducing the defenders to holding their rifles overhead to fire back. 🔗
Two Russian BMPs approached the south side of Strongpoint 3 and dismounted infantry practically on top of the trench, who immediately assaulted. The BMPs withdrew quickly after delivering their troops.
An abandoned Ukrainian tank is visible just past the BMPs. 🔗
Ukrainian troops fled the strongpoint across open ground as the assault began. The Russians called in artillery to harass them and consolidated on the newly-seized position. 🔗
This was hardly some grand, sweeping offensive - it was a limited attack by a single company to take three strongpoints and move the front line 200m forwards. You can, however, see the intricacy of even this small fight.🔗
The company made one dismounted attack with infantry moving up on foot and two mounted attacks with infantry dismounting close to enemy positions.
Throughout, the infantry cooperated closely with their armored support to suppress the enemy so they could move into close combat.🔗
On the other hand, the tanks led the way across open terrain and blasted their way past exposed positions like Strongpoint 2.
BMP crews seemed quite aware of their vehicles' thin skin and withdrew quickly after dropping off infantry.🔗
The attack was made under persistent Ukrainian artillery fire and against a well-equipped enemy who abandoned at least one tank on the battlefield. The Russians obviously suffered several casualties and at least one tanker KIA.🔗
This is very standard combined arms stuff and hews closely to Soviet doctrine, with combined-arms platoons, tanks leading the way, and infantry dismounting almost on top of enemy positions to immediately assault. The main innovation here is the observing drone.🔗
It's also a very far cry from the nonsensical propaganda we commonly see about Russian operations in Ukraine. There were no "meat waves" here, nor any crushing barrage of artillery fire. Just a dawn attack with Soviet-style combined arms from a modest motor rifle unit.🔗
Addendum: According to @tretter50001 , the Russians also lost three infantrymen KIA.
Zelo zanimiva je tudi video reportaža bojev, eden boljših vojnih video posnetkov v tej vojni.
https://twitter.com/ArmchairW/status/16...
Let's talk about Russian small-unit tactics on the offensive. With Russian troops stepping up attacks across the front in Ukraine, I suspect this will be very relevant in the near future.
A video came out recently which I will use to illustrate: t.me/DDGeopolitics/…🔗
This video was produced by journalists embedded with Russian troops near Spornoe, which I understand are a former LPR unit filled out by Russian reservists. These are ordinary motorized riflemen, not elite troops, equipped with BMP-1s and T-80BVs. 🔗
The producers do little to sugarcoat things, although they avoid showing anyone being killed on camera. They freely admit multiple vehicles were hit and at least one Russian tanker was killed during the attack. 🔗
They also have no problem showing moments that might be unflattering for the Russians, including two occasions where reversing vehicles collide with following vehicles.
What's one more dent on a tank? 🔗
The mission here was to seize a series of Ukrainian positions west of the Russian-held (but very much front-line) gas compressor station at Spornoye. I've marked them on the map as Strongpoints 1, 2 and 3. 🔗
The Russians attacked with a rather small company, apparently some 50 men in three platoons with one tank and two personnel carriers with infantry each. There seems to have been roughly the same number of Ukrainian defenders with at least one tank in support. 🔗
Russian troops in the area had made a habit of operating late in the day and at night rather than in the morning, and surprised the defenders by attacking at dawn. 🔗
The Russians attacked Strongpoint 1 first. It appears they moved infantry into the compressor station under darkness and launched the initial attack on foot, securing a foothold on the north side after suppressing the defenders.
Armor moved up in support after the first attack. 🔗
The infantry broke into two groups, one clearing the trenches while the other covered them against counterattacks coming from outside the trench system.
This was all done after the Ukrainians called down indirect fire on their own positions. 🔗
After the initial wave secured the north side of Strongpoint 1 a second platoon attacked to clear the south half.
This platoon moved up mounted on BMPs and led by a tank, avoiding Ukrainian mortar fire. 🔗
The tank pushed into position to fire directly into the Ukrainian-held ravine while the infantry dismounted, initially using a nearby ditch for cover. 🔗
The infantry directed the tank onto remaining pockets of resistance as they assaulted through the position.
With the strongpoint secure and the infantry established in place, the armored vehicles - which attract enemy fire - withdrew. 🔗
Another platoon was engaged as they moved up to attack Strongpoint 3, with at least one tank hit and disabled with the gunner killed.
A second tank was also hit, with the crew concussed, but pressed on to continue the attack. 🔗
To get to Strongpoint 3 they had to deal with Strongpoint 2, a bunker built into a collapsed building on the edge of the compressor station. The damaged tank approached and demolished it at point-blank range.
Russian infantry occupied the ruin shortly after. 🔗
That platoon then pushed on Strongpoint 3, suppressing the trenches with fire from tanks and BMPs and reducing the defenders to holding their rifles overhead to fire back. 🔗
Two Russian BMPs approached the south side of Strongpoint 3 and dismounted infantry practically on top of the trench, who immediately assaulted. The BMPs withdrew quickly after delivering their troops.
An abandoned Ukrainian tank is visible just past the BMPs. 🔗
Ukrainian troops fled the strongpoint across open ground as the assault began. The Russians called in artillery to harass them and consolidated on the newly-seized position. 🔗
This was hardly some grand, sweeping offensive - it was a limited attack by a single company to take three strongpoints and move the front line 200m forwards. You can, however, see the intricacy of even this small fight.🔗
The company made one dismounted attack with infantry moving up on foot and two mounted attacks with infantry dismounting close to enemy positions.
Throughout, the infantry cooperated closely with their armored support to suppress the enemy so they could move into close combat.🔗
On the other hand, the tanks led the way across open terrain and blasted their way past exposed positions like Strongpoint 2.
BMP crews seemed quite aware of their vehicles' thin skin and withdrew quickly after dropping off infantry.🔗
The attack was made under persistent Ukrainian artillery fire and against a well-equipped enemy who abandoned at least one tank on the battlefield. The Russians obviously suffered several casualties and at least one tanker KIA.🔗
This is very standard combined arms stuff and hews closely to Soviet doctrine, with combined-arms platoons, tanks leading the way, and infantry dismounting almost on top of enemy positions to immediately assault. The main innovation here is the observing drone.🔗
It's also a very far cry from the nonsensical propaganda we commonly see about Russian operations in Ukraine. There were no "meat waves" here, nor any crushing barrage of artillery fire. Just a dawn attack with Soviet-style combined arms from a modest motor rifle unit.🔗
Addendum: According to @tretter50001 , the Russians also lost three infantrymen KIA.
Aston_11 ::
Pa še potrdijo, da je v Ukrajini prepovedano snemati in objavljati posledice ruskih napadov, SBU pa to aktivno nadzira.Baš bi bili budala, da bi zbirali info za ruse na način, da bi jim jih direktno dostavljali. To trobiš že nekaj časa, vendar očitno nimaš ustreznega razumevanja, da bi razumel, zakaj ni dobro fašistom dostavljati intela.
Ali pa se ti da trollat.
Nihče se pa ne vpraša, kam padajo ostanki Patriotov. Seveda pa vse posledice tega divjega streljanja s protizračno pripišejo Rusom.Pravilno pripišejo.
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenil: Aston_11 ()
Rambutan ::
Nihče se pa ne vpraša, kam padajo ostanki Patriotov. Seveda pa vse posledice tega divjega streljanja s protizračno pripišejo Rusom.Pravilno pripišejo.
Skrivanje vojakov in vojaške opremev za civilisti je zločin po mednarodnih zakonodaji, saj ogroža življenje in premoženje civilistov. Ukrajina to počenja že celo vojno. Že AI je to pogruntala, pa so se takoj vsule obtožbe na AI.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/...
Ukrainian forces have put civilians in harm’s way by establishing bases and operating weapons systems in populated residential areas, including in schools and hospitals, as they repelled the Russian invasion that began in February, Amnesty International said today.
Such tactics violate international humanitarian law and endanger civilians, as they turn civilian objects into military targets. The ensuing Russian strikes in populated areas have killed civilians and destroyed civilian infrastructure.
“We have documented a pattern of Ukrainian forces putting civilians at risk and violating the laws of war when they operate in populated areas,” said Agnès Callamard, Amnesty International’s Secretary General.
“Being in a defensive position does not exempt the Ukrainian military from respecting international humanitarian law.”
mackilla ::
Nihče se pa ne vpraša, kam padajo ostanki Patriotov. Seveda pa vse posledice tega divjega streljanja s protizračno pripišejo Rusom.Pravilno pripišejo.
Skrivanje vojakov in vojaške opremev za civilisti je zločin po mednarodnih zakonodaji, saj ogroža življenje in premoženje civilistov. Ukrajina to počenja že celo vojno. Že AI je to pogruntala, pa so se takoj vsule obtožbe na AI.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/...
Ukrainian forces have put civilians in harm’s way by establishing bases and operating weapons systems in populated residential areas, including in schools and hospitals, as they repelled the Russian invasion that began in February, Amnesty International said today.
Such tactics violate international humanitarian law and endanger civilians, as they turn civilian objects into military targets. The ensuing Russian strikes in populated areas have killed civilians and destroyed civilian infrastructure.
“We have documented a pattern of Ukrainian forces putting civilians at risk and violating the laws of war when they operate in populated areas,” said Agnès Callamard, Amnesty International’s Secretary General.
“Being in a defensive position does not exempt the Ukrainian military from respecting international humanitarian law.”
Daj še prilepi ruske zločine. Preveč jih je,da bi lepil.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/search/?qloc...
gozdar1 ::
Med tem rusi skrivajo vojsko in uporabljajo za topniške položaje jedrsko centralo.
Sicer pa so rusi po kijevu streljali na čisto civilne , cilje spomnimo se posnetka tistega mostu, ali pa streljanja na termo centrale, industrijske obrate,...
Trenuno sta da se to prepreči samo dve opciji, rusi nehajo streljat ali pa mora biti v bližini obramba.
Sicer pa glede tistega patriota, baje zadnje informacije od "us officials".
https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1...
Sicer pa so rusi po kijevu streljali na čisto civilne , cilje spomnimo se posnetka tistega mostu, ali pa streljanja na termo centrale, industrijske obrate,...
Trenuno sta da se to prepreči samo dve opciji, rusi nehajo streljat ali pa mora biti v bližini obramba.
Sicer pa glede tistega patriota, baje zadnje informacije od "us officials".
https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1...
Aston_11 ::
Skrivanje vojakov in vojaške opremev za civilisti je zločin po mednarodnih zakonodaji, saj ogroža življenje in premoženje civilistov. Ukrajina to počenja že celo vojno. Že AI je to pogruntala, pa so se takoj vsule obtožbe na AI.Ruski fašisti so znani po številnih zločinih, jih pa strašno moti, ko ruska lažnjiva propaganda prikazuje, kot da Ukrajinci počno isto. Če sodim po tebi, so motnje močne.
Fašist naj gre domov, pa ne bo problema.
Lesoto ::
https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1658...
The damage to a Patriot air defense system in Kyiv following a Russian missile attack is minimal. US sent inspectors to examine the system on Tuesday and it remains functional, three US officials tell CNN.
The damage to a Patriot air defense system in Kyiv following a Russian missile attack is minimal. US sent inspectors to examine the system on Tuesday and it remains functional, three US officials tell CNN.
Pac-Man ::
UAZ štrajka, video
https://twitter.com/Q0MT6pFmbVqynsM/sta...
"The plant is on strike, there is no salary."
Workers of the UAZ plant gathered a rally right in the shop. People complained about the salary.
Judging by the video, several dozen workers at a plant in Ulyanovsk went on strike. Over the past month, they received an average of 20 thousand rubles. (230€)
https://twitter.com/Q0MT6pFmbVqynsM/sta...
"The plant is on strike, there is no salary."
Workers of the UAZ plant gathered a rally right in the shop. People complained about the salary.
Judging by the video, several dozen workers at a plant in Ulyanovsk went on strike. Over the past month, they received an average of 20 thousand rubles. (230€)
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
Lesoto ::
še eno čudovište iz Rusije
https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/sta...
As stated, a 57 mm S-60 cannon of the 1950 model on the chassis of the T-55 tank in Russian service somewhere in Ukraine.
https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/sta...
As stated, a 57 mm S-60 cannon of the 1950 model on the chassis of the T-55 tank in Russian service somewhere in Ukraine.
Pac-Man ::
Skrivanje vojakov in vojaške opremev za civilisti je zločin po mednarodnih zakonodaji, saj ogroža življenje in premoženje civilistov.
Prosim, pojdi v Moskvo protestirat, da morajo takoj umaknit vse vojaške ladje iz Sevastopola. Z vojaškim pristaniščem sredi mesta namreč ogrožajo življenje in premoženje civilistov.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
mojsterleo ::
https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1658...
The damage to a Patriot air defense system in Kyiv following a Russian missile attack is minimal. US sent inspectors to examine the system on Tuesday and it remains functional, three US officials tell CNN.
Verjetno so katerega od modulov Patriota zadele razbitine rakete. Ko imaš na ozkem območju naenkrat 30+ raket se to prav lahko zgodi.
Če so Rusi zadeli lanser pa sistem itak normalno dela dalje.
redtech ::
UAZ štrajka, video
https://twitter.com/Q0MT6pFmbVqynsM/sta...
"The plant is on strike, there is no salary."
Workers of the UAZ plant gathered a rally right in the shop. People complained about the salary.
Judging by the video, several dozen workers at a plant in Ulyanovsk went on strike. Over the past month, they received an average of 20 thousand rubles. (230€)
Lahko gredo v vojsko za 10x cca 2000 EUR
Pac-Man ::
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
tomlin ::
Najnovejša ukrajinska vojna: ruski znanstveniki, ki so delali na 'nepremagljivih' raketah, se soočajo z obtožbami izdaje nekaj dni po tem, ko je Ukrajina izjavila, da jih je sestrelila šest
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-...
Sestrelitev zračnih balističnih raket KILLJOY, ki jih je Vladimir Putin označil za "nepremagljive", bo za ruskega predsednika "presenečenje in zadrega"
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-...
Sestrelitev zračnih balističnih raket KILLJOY, ki jih je Vladimir Putin označil za "nepremagljive", bo za ruskega predsednika "presenečenje in zadrega"
Svoboda in enakost ni isto kot svoboda.
M. Friedman
M. Friedman
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenilo: tomlin ()
tomlin ::
o Nova prednostna naloga Rusije je ciljanje na izboljšane ukrajinske sisteme zračne obrambe, je sporočilo ministrstvo za obrambo Združenega kraljestva.
o To se je zgodilo potem, ko je Ukrajina sestrelila rakete Kinžal, za katere se je Rusija hvalila, da jih ni mogoče ustaviti.
https://news.yahoo.com/embarrassed-ukra...
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-...
o To se je zgodilo potem, ko je Ukrajina sestrelila rakete Kinžal, za katere se je Rusija hvalila, da jih ni mogoče ustaviti.
https://news.yahoo.com/embarrassed-ukra...
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-...
Svoboda in enakost ni isto kot svoboda.
M. Friedman
M. Friedman
Zgodovina sprememb…
- spremenilo: tomlin ()
tomlin ::
Kinžal, Domet naj bi bil 2000 km (1200 milj) in hitrost 10 Machov!
Kh-47M2 Kinzhal @ Wikipedia
Kh-47M2 Kinzhal @ Wikipedia
Svoboda in enakost ni isto kot svoboda.
M. Friedman
M. Friedman
LightBit ::
Najnovejša ukrajinska vojna: ruski znanstveniki, ki so delali na 'nepremagljivih' raketah, se soočajo z obtožbami izdaje nekaj dni po tem, ko je Ukrajina izjavila, da jih je sestrelila šest
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-...
Sestrelitev zračnih balističnih raket KILLJOY, ki jih je Vladimir Putin označil za "nepremagljive", bo za ruskega predsednika "presenečenje in zadrega"
Tako kot je bilo v sovjetski zvezi. Sistem spodbuja laži, ko gre kaj narobe se kaže s prstom na soseda. Nikoli se noben ne vpraša kaj je narobe s sistemom. Najde se eno žrtev.