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Konflikt v Siriji

Konflikt v Siriji

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Poldi112 ::

Če investiraš v rušenje države in sponzoriranje zmernih glavorezcev, dobiš državljansko vojno. S prstom tu kazati na Assada je neverjetno hinavsko.

Edino relevantno vprašanje na tem mestu je, ali je investicija v rušenje Sirije s strani zahoda pomagala sircem ali ne? In vsakemu racionalnemu človeku je jasno, da, enako kot v skoraj vseh dosedanjih posredovanjih zahoda v imenu "človekovih pravic", stanja niso izboljšali, ampak konktretno poslabšali.

Točno tako, kot je bilo planirano:


Edino iz nekega neznanega razloga eni še kar neprestano blejate zahodno propagando ter navijate za bombardiranje "suverenih" držav. Kljub temu, da imamo jebenih 100 let zgodovine brutaliziranja "suverenih držav" v imenu človekovih pravic.

Kapo dol pred zahodno propagando.
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.

Poldi112 ::

In related news, Daniel Hale, še en žvižgač, ki moralno ni zdržal, da ne bi spregovoril o klanju civilov z droni, je bil prisiljen v priznanje krivde (z grožnjo, da bo potencialno sedel 50 let kot špijun).

Zdaj bo odsedel "zgolj" 45 mesecev. Tako, v opomin ostalim, ki bi želeli z novinarji deliti detajle o širjenju demokracije ter človekovih pravic.

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/530515-price-c...
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.

Pac-Man ::

Poldi112 je izjavil:

Če investiraš v rušenje države in sponzoriranje zmernih glavorezcev, dobiš državljansko vojno. S prstom tu kazati na Assada je neverjetno hinavsko.


Arabska pomlad & protesti v Siriji so se zgodili organsko. Hinavsko je zagovarjanje rodbine, ki Siriji vlada že 50 let in odvzemanje lastne volje lokalcem. Hama, junij 2011, angleški podnapisi:



Response from the streets of Hama to Bashar's speech, with additional music & translation added by the Creative Syrian Revolution.
The singer "Ibrahim Qashoush" was reported to be killed in Hama on 3 July 2011 by regime mercenaries, they cut his throat to try to stop his chant spreading.
Please spread this to prove them wrong and show their violence will never defeat us. Additional Music & Translation added by the Creative Syrian Revolution
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Poldi112 ::

Ti resno verjameš, da CIA ni pomagala podpihovati vstaje proti Assadu?
Da ne omenjamo miljonov, ki so jih američani vlagali v širjenje propagande.

Nihče ne zagovarja Assada - to je grdo podtikanje. Nasprotujem zgolj rušenju suverenih držav. Ne pozabi - za isto stvar smo nacije obesili...

Hkrati pa priročno ignoriraš DEJSTVO, da je sircem danes neprimerno slabše, kot bi jim bilo brez zahodnih investicij v zmerne glavorezce ter propagano. Enako afganistancem, iračanom, ... ter stotinam drugih, ki so bili tekom stoletja deležni "pomoči" usa.

So mar besede bolj pomembne od dejanj, ki so že stoletje DIAMETRALNO nasprotna? 100 let ti že lažejo, pa jim še kar verjameš.
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenil: Poldi112 ()

Pac-Man ::

Poldi112 je izjavil:

Ti resno verjameš, da CIA ni pomagala podpihovati vstaje proti Assadu?
Da ne omenjamo miljonov, ki so jih američani vlagali v širjenje propagande.

Dokazano rusko vpletanje v tesne ameriške volitve (77k glasov v 5ih državah or sth) ni imelo nobenega vpliva, potencialni CIA psy-ops pa je povzročil 10-letno klavnico? Zanimivo.
Glej, lahko pritisneš na prave gumbe, ampak gumbi morajo najprej obstajat.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Poldi112 ::

Rusko investicijo par tisoč EUR v facebook oglase primerjaš z vojaško okupacijo Sirije, ter miljinom, namenjenim opoziciji ter oboroževanju ter treniranju islamskih skrajnežem z namenom zrušitve voditelj suverene države?

Da ne omenjamo US vmešavanja v Ruske volitve. O tem hollywood celo filme snema, ti pa resno problematiziraš onih par trolov, ki NISO V NIČEMER vplivali na izid volitev? Volitve so odločili mediji, ki jim je šov v finančmen interesu, Hillary, ki jih je usmerila v to smer, ker je želela finale s Trumpom, ter Cambridge analytica, proti kateri so rusi zgolj nepomembna statistična napaka.

A če ne moreš preživeti poraza potencialne 1. ženske predsednice, je pač treba verjeti njemim izgovorom.
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.

Mr.B ::

Poldi112 je izjavil:

Rusko investicijo par tisoč EUR v facebook oglase primerjaš z vojaško okupacijo Sirije, ter miljinom, namenjenim opoziciji ter oboroževanju ter treniranju islamskih skrajnežem z namenom zrušitve voditelj suverene države?

Da ne omenjamo US vmešavanja v Ruske volitve. O tem hollywood celo filme snema, ti pa resno problematiziraš onih par trolov, ki NISO V NIČEMER vplivali na izid volitev? Volitve so odločili mediji, ki jim je šov v finančmen interesu, Hillary, ki jih je usmerila v to smer, ker je želela finale s Trumpom, ter Cambridge analytica, proti kateri so rusi zgolj nepomembna statistična napaka.

A če ne moreš preživeti poraza potencialne 1. ženske predsednice, je pač treba verjeti njemim izgovorom.

Zakaj ee ukvarjas s paxijem. A je kdaj prilepil uradne vire. Twixi to je max.
Voljeno telo ogledalo volilnega telesa.

korenje3 ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:

Poldi112 je izjavil:

Ti resno verjameš, da CIA ni pomagala podpihovati vstaje proti Assadu?
Da ne omenjamo miljonov, ki so jih američani vlagali v širjenje propagande.

Dokazano rusko vpletanje v tesne ameriške volitve (77k glasov v 5ih državah or sth) ni imelo nobenega vpliva, potencialni CIA psy-ops pa je povzročil 10-letno klavnico? Zanimivo.
Glej, lahko pritisneš na prave gumbe, ampak gumbi morajo najprej obstajat.


Ti si mal usekan v glavo ne? al si velik usekan v glavo?
Pentium I7 3770k@4,5Ghz; 16GB RAM@2133MHz; ASUS Radeon 6850 1GB;
SSD Kingston hyperX 240GB; 30" HPZR30w monitor;
BeQuiet! E9 580W; http://www.the-nox.com

Pac-Man ::

Ne vem, čakam da mi razložiš, kako in zakaj sem usekan. Vem pa da se mi ne da it milijontega kroga "kdo je kaj plačal".

@Poldi
Brez ameriškega vpletanja bi sredi devedesetih na oblast prišli komunisti, Vladimir Vladimirovič bi pa kot skorumpirani leningradski uradniček/sovražnik ljudstva končal v gulagu. Metuljev efekt.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

arnecan1 ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:

Poldi112 je izjavil:

Če investiraš v rušenje države in sponzoriranje zmernih glavorezcev, dobiš državljansko vojno. S prstom tu kazati na Assada je neverjetno hinavsko.


Arabska pomlad & protesti v Siriji so se zgodili organsko. Hinavsko je zagovarjanje rodbine, ki Siriji vlada že 50 let in odvzemanje lastne volje lokalcem. Hama, junij 2011, angleški podnapisi:



Response from the streets of Hama to Bashar's speech, with additional music & translation added by the Creative Syrian Revolution.
The singer "Ibrahim Qashoush" was reported to be killed in Hama on 3 July 2011 by regime mercenaries, they cut his throat to try to stop his chant spreading.
Please spread this to prove them wrong and show their violence will never defeat us. Additional Music & Translation added by the Creative Syrian Revolution

Ni se začelo v Siriji. In ni bilo organsko.

Edino, kar je bilo organsko je bilo to, da je naivna zahodna novinarka šla med demokratično zmerno množico mladih mož muslimanskih mož in bila posiljena.

Pac-Man ::

arnecan1 je izjavil:



Grm jr. je napadel Sirijo? Kdaj, kako?
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

c3p0 ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:


Arabska pomlad & protesti v Siriji so se zgodili organsko. Hinavsko je zagovarjanje rodbine, ki Siriji vlada že 50 let in odvzemanje lastne volje lokalcem. Hama, junij 2011, angleški podnapisi:


Marsikaj si že izjavil, ampak tako ignorantske pa še ne. To je tipični CIA hit job. Poglej malo kaj "so" počeli v Srednji in J. Ameriki.

Pac-Man ::

Se mi ne da prepirat, torej "tipični CIA hit job" iz Idliba, januar 2012, angleški podnapisi:

The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Poldi112 ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:


@Poldi
Brez ameriškega vpletanja bi sredi devedesetih na oblast prišli komunisti


Kaj nas to briga? Kaj nam daje pravico, da rušimo oblasti v tujini.

Medtem, ko se deremo, kako so rusi sabotirali ameriško demokracijo...
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.

Poldi112 ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:

Se mi ne da prepirat, torej "tipični CIA hit job" iz Idliba, januar 2012, angleški podnapisi:


Relevantnost?

Lahko odgovoriš na trivialna vprašanja:
- je sircem bolje, odkar jim pomagamo z rušenjem oblasti?
- je iračanom bolje, odkar smo jim prinesli demokracijo?
- se tudi ti strinjaš z gospodarjem, da je bilo za to cvetočo demokracijo, ki je danes Irak, vredno izstradati pol miljona otrok ter na miljone odraslih?
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.

Poldi112 ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:


Grm jr. je napadel Sirijo? Kdaj, kako?


Ni. Edino kaj si želel povedati s tem vprašanjem? Je morda zgolj slučaj, da se je zgodovina odvila praktično točno tako, kot je napovedal? Skladno z doktrino neoconov, ki smo jo tudi že večkrat omenili?

Project for new american century
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.

Fritz ::

Pacota je treba samo vprašati, kje so človekove pravice v Izraelu in kdaj bomo tudi tja ponesli 'demokracijo'.

Kdaj bomo torej začeli uporabljati iste vatle proti apartheid režimu, ki brez posledic pobija in pohablja ljudi ter izvaja etnično čiščenje?
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: Fritz ()

Mr.B ::

Samo v izraelu, ze skoraj ni dnevne novice, da izraelski "voljka, policaj, apli poljubno", ni v samoobrambi ubil palestinca različnih starosti, vključujoč v zaporu ali bolnici. V bistvu, glede na nikakršne odzive, bi rekel, da imajo palestinci vlogo črncev v ameriki, pred 60+ leti.
Voljeno telo ogledalo volilnega telesa.

Poldi112 ::

Bolj indijancev pred 100+ leti, glede na to, da ni plan, da se jih zasužnji, ampak fizično odstrani.
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.

Mr.B ::

Poldi112 je izjavil:

Bolj indijancev pred 100+ leti, glede na to, da ni plan, da se jih zasužnji, ampak fizično odstrani.

Ne nesmes jih enacit z indijanci, ker pred 1500 pred kristusom, so se takratni judje sprehajali in morili po isti regiji. Tako da muslimani ki zivijo na ozemlju, ki so ga zasedli pozneje, te pravice nimajo.
Voljeno telo ogledalo volilnega telesa.

Fritz ::

Še enkrat o tem kako je šlo za vstajo 'demokratskih' sil:
The former French Foreign Minister Roland Dumas admits, the war on Syria was planned two years before "The Arab Spring". Dumas states in a TV interview, that "top British officials" confessed that they were preparing a war on Syria and asked "If I wanted to participate".

The former French Minister of Foreign Affairs appeared in aTV interview with the French TV Channel LPC, saying:

"I am going to tell you something. I was in England two years before the violence in Syria on other business. I met with top British officials, who confessed to me, that they were preparing something in Syria".

Dumas continued, indicating that the subversion and invasion of the Syrian Arab Republic with the help of "rebels" was primarily a British plan, while he carefully avoided implicating himself and France, saying:

"This was in Britain not in America. Britain was organizing an invasion of rebels into Syria. They even asked me, although I was no longer Minister of Foreign Affairs, if I would like to participate. Naturally, I refused, I said I am French, that does not interest me"
Dumas continued the interview, pointing to the role of Israel in the Middle East and Israel´s role with regard to western Middle East foreign policy and the war on Syria. The war has so far cost an estimated 93.000 lives and has displaced more than two million since the onset of the western subversion attempt in 2011. The majority of those who were killed were Syrian civilians, murdered by western-backed insurgents and terrorists.

"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein

Pac-Man ::

Malenkost off, na dolgo o Higginsu v GQ.


https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/politics/...

In August 2011, Libya’s revolution had become a civil war and insurgents were boasting about having seized the coastal town of Brega. Higgins posted a video selfie purportedly taken by a rebel fighter walking through the town, but another commenter snapped back – it could have been filmed anywhere; it proved nothing. This was the problem with the new world of citizen journalism. In the old days, you could generally be sure that what the BBC was showing was what it said it was. Social media, however, was not like that. It was flooded with propagandists, imposters and tricksters, all of who could be misleading you, perhaps for nefarious purposes, maybe for the money, possibly just for the lulz. Higgins had to concede the point: he had never been to Brega, he didn’t know the insurgent taking the video, he could not be sure that the video truly showed what its YouTube caption said it did.

This is when he had his idea.


He watched the video again, noticed how the insurgent walked down the street, around a corner, turned left, walked onwards, turned left again and he sketched out a map of the path the man took. He then opened Google Maps, found Brega and searched for roads that matched his sketch. It took a while, and he had to keep rotating his piece of paper, but eventually he found them: in the eastern residential district they fitted exactly. He played the video again, comparing details of the streetscape he could see behind the insurgent with the buildings he could see on the satellite picture. It was perfect. He had a match and could definitively prove that what the insurgents were saying was true: they had indeed entered Brega – or the eastern part of it anyway. It was the first time he had used OSINT to prove something and it was his first scoop. He uploaded his findings to the Guardian live blog and sent out his sketch maps to his handful of followers on Twitter. “I’m 100 per cent sure they are right. I compared the wall angles to the videos and it all matches,” he tweeted, to complete indifference. He received precisely no likes or retweets. That was his seventh tweet. He now has almost 140,000 followers and has tweeted more than 260,000 times.




In še bolj off - grafični oblikovalec je v članku uporabil B747 namesto B777.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Pac-Man ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:



Tudi:

Inevitably, considering their insistence on revealing secrets and their mastery of the internet, he has frequently been compared to Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks.
But they have almost nothing in common: Assange believes governments know the truth, are hiding it from us and that his job is to reveal it; Higgins believes the truth is discoverable through patient investigation and that his job is to coordinate that activity.

...

Higgins no more speaks Russian than he does Farsi, but his collaborators do and they took advantage of a peculiarity of Russia that makes it unusually suited to Bellingcat’s style of research.
Although the Kremlin is centralised and authoritarian, its decisions taken by a tiny clique around Vladimir Putin, the country’s epidemic corruption means almost any information is readily available if you’re willing to pay for it. Russia is simultaneously an extremely closed and an extremely open society.
When I lived in Moscow, this meant that touts would sell CD-ROMs of passport data or telephone numbers to drivers waiting at traffic lights. Now, those same databases can be found online and accessed from anywhere.

...

“Years ago, the internet was advertised as a cyberutopia around the corner. Lately, public opinion has swung in the opposite direction. The digital era is viewed as a wrecking ball, smashing journalism, civility and politics,” he writes in his thoughtful and concise memoir-cum-manifesto We Are Bellingcat: An Intelligence Agency For The People, which was published earlier this year.
“At Bellingcat, we do not accept this cyber-miserabilism. The marvels of the internet can still have an impact for the better.”

...

“The internet has become a great way to radicalise people and part of that is driven by the fact that, as people have lost trust in traditional sources of authority, they seek alternative answers online,” Higgins explained.
“So if you’re looking for an alternative source of authority, you’re going to seek it from other people. With Bellingcat, what we’re saying is you can be your own source of authority, by doing this fact-based investigation.”
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Truga ::

ja, res je, nic nimata skupnega

assange je zurnalist, higgins pa je propagandist ki jemlje denar od cie in nata lmao

Pac-Man ::

Truga je izjavil:

higgins pa je propagandist ki jemlje denar od cie in nata lmao

Če je na internetih mora biti že res. Dokazi so za ovce.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Truga ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:

Če je na internetih mora biti že res. Dokazi so za ovce.
https://twitter.com/eliothiggins/status...

iz lastnih ust klovna.
"NED is funded primarily by an annual allocation from the U.S. Congress"
vec lahko preberes tu:
https://thegrayzone.com/2021/02/20/reut...

Pac-Man ::

Kako prideš od delnega financiranja s strani NED, gre za OSINT tečaje za novinarje iz držav v razvoju, do CIA & NATO je še vedno jasno samo tebi.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Truga ::

US Congress *je* cia in nato, ce nisi v USA, dej no mal spremljaj kaj se dogaja okol tebe

Mr.B ::

Truga je izjavil:

US Congress *je* cia in nato, ce nisi v USA, dej no mal spremljaj kaj se dogaja okol tebe

Ne se ukvarjat s polditom... takoj ko mu daš vire , ki niso socialni mediji, izgubi bralno razmevanje. Naj se pogovarja sam sabo. Nejgovi copy past litany ne bere no...
Voljeno telo ogledalo volilnega telesa.

Pac-Man ::

Truga je izjavil:

US Congress *je* cia in nato, ce nisi v USA, dej no mal spremljaj kaj se dogaja okol tebe

Da ameriška oblast stori kaj pozitivnega je v tvojem vesolju popolnoma nemogoče?



@financiranje s strani NED, revidirano letno poročilo Bellingcata za l. 2020:

https://www.bellingcat.com/app/uploads/...

Od 2 235 000 € prihodkov (str. 6) so od NED prejeli 112 524 € (str. 16). Pet procentov, ni nič, ampak hkrati brez tega ne bi propadli.


2019:
https://www.bellingcat.com/app/uploads/...

1 841 000 € prihodkov (str. 6), 0€ od NED (str. 14). Se pa najde 10 632 € od Open Society Foundations. Soros pa to, spooky.



Lahko rečemo še kako o financiranju the Grayzone? Aha, ne moremo, ker vire skrivajo kot kača noge.


Je pa nekaj špekulacij:
https://twitter.com/FrogeFoibles/status...
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Truga ::

Pac-Man ::

https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/ecu/mayda...

Complaint

The programme, part of a series on aspects of the conflict in Syria, dealt with the chemical weapons attack at Douma, which it described as “one of the most contested events in the war”, and included an account of the role subsequently played by a former inspector with the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), known pseudonymously as Alex, who had expressed concerns about the OPCW’s conclusions on the matter. The journalist Peter Hitchens complained that the programme had been inaccurate in insinuating that Alex’s disclosures had been motivated by a reward of $100,000 offered by WikiLeaks, that he believed the attack had been staged, and that he had made his views known only through “a select few journalists who share the Russian and Syrian state views on the war”. The ECU considered the complaint in the light of the BBC’s editorial standards of due accuracy.

Outcome

The programme, having referred to Alex’s disclosures in the winter of 2019, said it was “interesting” that they “came at a time when WikiLeaks was offering a $100,000 reward for any leaked material relating to the Douma incident”. The ECU agreed that this amounted to an insinuation about Alex’s motives. It considered the evidence, some of it from confidential sources, which had led the programme-makers to believe the insinuation justified, but judged that, although it was such as to warrant reporting (on an attributed basis) that Alex’s motives had been questioned, it was not strong enough to warrant the programme itself calling them into question. Similarly, the programme’s statement that Alex “believed the attack was staged” seemed to the ECU to rest on evidence which, although strongly suggestive, was not so conclusive as to justify stating as a fact that he believed the attack to have been staged. As to Alex’s dealings with journalists, although he had collaborated with journalists who held broadly the same views on the war as the Russian and Syrian governments, he had also collaborated with journalists of whom that could not be said (Mr Hitchens among them).

The ECU found that, although they were limited to one aspect of a investigation into a complex and hotly contested subject, these points represented a failure to meet the standard of accuracy appropriate to a programme of this kind. The ECU noted that a posting about one point of the complaint had been made on the Corrections and Clarifications page of bbc.co.uk but, as it was not reflected in the extended version of the programme which continued to available on BBC Sounds and the website of the series, it did not suffice to resolve the issue in question.




Tl;Dr

Odločili so, da je insinuacija o Alexovi motivaciji z od Wikileaks obljubljenih 100k $ pretirana & da se ne ve, če Alex meni, da je bil napad zrežiran. Da Hitchens nima podobnih pogledov na konflikt kot sirska & ruska oblast je pa a bit reaching, IMO.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

fikus_ ::

Pa glih bbc si vzel za vir :))
Učite se iz preteklosti, živite v sedanjosti in razmišljajte o prihodnosti.

Pac-Man ::

Seveda, BBC-jevo Executive Complaints Unit, ki je odločala. Primarni viri pa to.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/recent-ecu
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

c3p0 ::

BBC z "WTC7 has just collapsed", ko ta še stoji v ozadju, kredibilnost?

Pac-Man ::

Prenos v živo, napake se dogajajo.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/...
If we reported the building had collapsed before it had done so, it would have been an error - no more than that. As one of the comments on You Tube says today "so the guy in the studio didn't quite know what was going on? Woah, that totally proves conspiracy... "
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

c3p0 ::

Mlačna voda. To bi držalo, če bi stavba bila ravno pred tem, da se podre. Pa niti slučajno ni bilo tako, v njej je bilo vidnih le nekaj požarov. Pa ravno ta stavba?

Nekemu viru je novica prehitro ušla, nič druga. Tam bi lahko iskali nek "prior knowledge". Novinarka tako nima pojma, le bere kar piše na teleprompterju.

Pac-Man ::

Le nekaj požarov, 20 minut pred sesutjem. Okidoki, statik.

Najverjetneje so se gasilci pravočasno potegnili nazaj, BBC pa je zadevo slišal na UKV & dal naprej. Jane Standley je bila afriška dopisnica, NY geografija ji verjetno ni ravno poznana. Pač še ena stolpnica v ozadju.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr...
Jane Standley was Africa correspondent for the BBC from 1994 to 2001
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Pac-Man ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:

Najverjetneje so se gasilci pravočasno potegnili nazaj, BBC pa je zadevo slišal na UKV & dal naprej.

Jup.

https://www.ft.com/content/7d174b42-31f...
When the Standley clip hit YouTube, truthers bombarded the BBC’s website with questions and accusations. Richard Porter, head of BBC world news, was forced to deny that the broadcaster was reading from the Bush conspirators’ script. He said the BBC had misreported warnings from fire crews of the building’s imminent collapse and instead stated that it had already happened. He blamed the confusion of the day for the mix-up. CNN had earlier reported rumours that a third building had either collapsed or was about to.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Fritz ::

BBC je že bil poden od medija, sedaj ko ga Torijevci popolnoma obvladujejo, pa prebija dna eno za drugim.

Na zahodu ni več kredibilnih mainstream medijev. Za vsemi večjimi stojijo neki interesi, najbolj pogosto interesi premožnežev oz. lastnikov medijev, v primeru BBC pa desni pol politike. To se najbolje vidi pri njihovem obravnavanju politične levice, Rusije, Kitajske ter vseh drugih držav, ki ogrožajo hegemonijo kapitalizma in zahodnega imperializma. Sirija je pri tem šolski primer.

Obstajajo dobri non-mainstream mediji kot je declassified.uk.
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein

Mr.B ::

Pac-Man, ne se trudit... BBC je postal poden....za namecek pa si dal se resni medij theguardian.com.
BBC-jev novinar je bil nazadnje na tisti ladji, kjer so potem cudezno nasli dokumente, kjer so planirali provociranje rusije okoli krima.....
BBC, je bil medij, ki se ga je dalo brati v prejsnjem stoletju,.....
Voljeno telo ogledalo volilnega telesa.

c3p0 ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:


When the Standley clip hit YouTube, truthers bombarded the BBC’s website with questions and accusations. Richard Porter, head of BBC world news, was forced to deny that the broadcaster was reading from the Bush conspirators’ script. He said the BBC had misreported warnings from fire crews of the building’s imminent collapse and instead stated that it had already happened. He blamed the confusion of the day for the mix-up. CNN had earlier reported rumours that a third building had either collapsed or was about to.


Saj te razlage vse poznamo, ne pijejo vode. Potem ti ne bo težko najt vsaj ene slikice teh hudih požarov. To je bilo namreč pozno popoldne in stavba je morala hudo goreti že dolge ure, kamer na kraju dogodka je bilo ogromno. A to je najboljše, kar so uspeli najti:



Pa še požar ene druge stolpnice:



No, ta je pa ostala pokonci. Ker stolpnice kot posledica požarov pač ne padajo. Razen ko 3 na isti dan.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenil: c3p0 ()

Poldi112 ::

Fritz je izjavil:

Na zahodu ni več kredibilnih mainstream medijev.


Jih nikoli ni bilo. Pulitzer, po katerem imamo nagrade za novinarske dosežke, je izumil rumeni tisk...
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.

Poldi112 ::

Sicer pa, kateri zahodni cantng je objektivno poročal o Vietnamu, teroriziranju Nikaragve, ... Afganistanu (kolikokrat so prvih nekaj let sploh omenili besedo okupacija?), Iraku (CNN "ne moreš objaviti izmišljotin predsednika, glede vzrokov napada, ker je to v vojnem stanju nepatriotsko"), ...

V vojni pa kot država tekom onih par stoletih obstoja niso koliko časa? Niti ne za moje življenje, pa sem še mlad. :)
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.

Pac-Man ::

Poldi112 je izjavil:

Sicer pa, kateri zahodni cantng je objektivno poročal o Vietnamu, teroriziranju Nikaragve, ... Afganistanu (kolikokrat so prvih nekaj let sploh omenili besedo okupacija?), Iraku (CNN "ne moreš objaviti izmišljotin predsednika, glede vzrokov napada, ker je to v vojnem stanju nepatriotsko")

Ohjej

Pentagon Papers @ Wikipedia

Nikaragva, 1984:
https://www.nytimes.com/1984/06/18/opin...

Za Afganistan so na začetku res na veliko navijali, je bilo pa vseeno nekaj protestov
Protests against the war in Afghanistan @ Wikipedia

Irak, 2002:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/...
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Poldi112 ::

Pentagon papers - 7 let po napadu USA na Vietnam.
NYT glede Nikaragve - 5 let po začetku
Irak - 11 let po napadu

Super ta free press, ko leta kasneje upa kritizirati oblast, medtem ko v sedanjosti orgazmira na uporabo orožja proti trenutnim sovražnikom.
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.

Pac-Man ::

Irak je bil pred napadom, lahko pa obstaja še kaj več. Zadevo sem našel v par minutah. Je pa vse v aktivni fazi konfliktov, medijsko šloganje je pač malo problem.

Rusi so že 6 let v Siriji, najdeš kako njihovo mainstream kritiko, kaj o povzročenih civilnih žrtvah?

https://airwars.org/conflict/russian-mi...
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • predlagal izbris: Poldi112 ()

Mr.B ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:

Irak je bil pred napadom, lahko pa obstaja še kaj več. Zadevo sem našel v par minutah. Je pa vse v aktivni fazi konfliktov, medijsko šloganje je pač malo problem.

Rusi so že 6 let v Siriji, najdeš kako njihovo mainstream kritiko, kaj o povzročenih civilnih žrtvah?

https://airwars.org/conflict/russian-mi...

Dogo je trajalo, da so sploh priznali... da pri metanju izredno natacnih bomb iz dronov, pride do civilnih zrtve.
Vemo tudi kaksen je bil zadnji uradni napad na civiliste, ups ISIS-like teroriste , dejansko sredi mesta....
Voljeno telo ogledalo volilnega telesa.

Poldi112 ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:

Irak je bil pred napadom, lahko pa obstaja še kaj več. Zadevo sem našel v par minutah. Je pa vse v aktivni fazi konfliktov, medijsko šloganje je pač malo problem.

Rusi so že 6 let v Siriji, najdeš kako njihovo mainstream kritiko, kaj o povzročenih civilnih žrtvah?

https://airwars.org/conflict/russian-mi...


Lahko da obstaja, ampak dokumentirano je tega zanemarljivo malo, medtem ko konstatno trobijo o širjenju demokracije in svobode (medtem ko se v realnosti zagovarja vojaško diktaturo ter klanje civilov).

Zato pa imamo te večne vojne - za svobodo!

Rusi tu pač niso relevanten igralec.
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.

Pac-Man ::

Preusmerjaš.

Po najboljših ocenah je zaradi ruskih zračnih napadov v Siriji umrlo 4000-6000 civilistov, od tega več kot 1000 otrok. Rusija ne prizna nobene civilne žrtve, čeprav 6 let mečejo nevodene bombe po civilistov polnih lokacijah. Nič osebnega, samo geopolitika.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.
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