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Ukrajina Part II

Ukrajina Part II

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Truga ::

https://twitter.com/stephenwertheim/sta...

nirburu ::

Ukrajina je dobila kar nekaj zanimive tenhike.
Ta vojna bo precej hardcore. Saj gre za dve državi, ena velesila druga podprta od velesile.
Gre sicer za brezvezno vojno, kjer bodo ljudje žrtvovani molochu, ampak bo kar pokalo.

feryz ::

Pripravlja se nov masaker nedolžnih ljudi, cel svet pa filozofira. Nihče pa noče narediti konca temu. Lepo se razvija, priznam.
Blagor Ukrajincem. Na eni strani kopičijo rakete Rusi, na drugi zahod. Kam bodo padale, se ve. Kakor se obrneš, imaš rit zadaj.
Če do česarkoli pride, bosta obe strani zmagali. Edino Ukrajina ne.

Chalky ::

feryz je izjavil:

Pripravlja se nov masaker nedolžnih ljudi, cel svet pa filozofira. Nihče pa noče narediti konca temu. Lepo se razvija, priznam.
Blagor Ukrajincem. Na eni strani kopičijo rakete Rusi, na drugi zahod. Kam bodo padale, se ve. Kakor se obrneš, imaš rit zadaj.
Če do česarkoli pride, bosta obe strani zmagali. Edino Ukrajina ne.


Odvisno do kam se bo konflikt razširil. Rusi tule ne morejo biti zmagovalci. Lahko zravnajo Ukrajino zagotovo vendar kaj potem? Cilj Rusije je da vzpostavi neko cono v Ukrajini preko katere bi držali NATO sile stran od svojih meja kar pa pomeni več letni quagmire sredi Ukrajine. Kako bodo Rusi financirali več 100 tisoč vojakov sredi Ukrajine je glavno vprašanje. Kako bodo dovažali hrano, gorivo, orožje, zdravstvene pripomočke za več 100 tisoč vojakov bi bilo zanimivo videti. Zato sem mnenja da se Putin ne bo spustil v ta konflikt saj bi to lahko Rusijo pahnilo v ekonomski kolaps.

Torej kdo lahko v tem primeru zares profitira? Evropa, ZDA? Odvisno do kam so se Rusi pripravljeni spustiti, če so pripravljeni še korak naprej od Ukrajine potem to pomeni neka večja vojna na Evropskem kontinentu, kar pomeni da bi lahko Američani prodali za nekaj 100 milijard dolarjev orožja, vendar kaj potem? Na dolgi rok bo to škodilo ZDA saj potrebujejo močni NATO in Evropo da se bodo ploh lahko kosali s Kitajsko. Torej kdo tule v tem konfliktu zares na koncu profitira? Odgovor leži na drugi strani sveta, nekdo mirno čaka iz ozadja. Potrebno bo premisliti v kaj se spuščamo. Notranji konflikt ki bi ga bilo potrebno rešiti že nekaj desetletij nazaj.

nirburu ::

Kaj točno pomeni držati NATO sile stran od meja v letu 2021?
Pa saj nismo v času legionarjev, kjer vojska pešači po tedne, da pride nekam.
A bo iz donbasa Biden kaj bolj videl Putino v spalnico?
Ta koncept, držati sovražnika na fizični distanci je dandanes bolj ali manj passe. Še posebej pri velesilah.
Ampak ja štekam point.
Vojna bo krvava vsekakor. Škoda Ukrajincev.

Fritz ::

Maš nore ljudi, potem imaš zelo pritegnjene ljudi, na koncu pa imaš ameriške politike:
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1468...
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein

Pac-Man ::

Fritz je izjavil:

Maš nore ljudi, potem imaš zelo pritegnjene ljudi, na koncu pa imaš ameriške politike:
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1468...


Republikanski senator iz Misisipija na Fox News.

Liberalno demokratski član dume iz Moskve ter predstavnik putinove stranke na 1. kanalu ruske nacionalke:

Russian politicians mock Boris Johnson and threaten nuclear attack on London
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Truga ::

https://twitter.com/leonidragozin/statu...
rusi: vojne ne bo
ukrainci: vojne ne bo
slo-tech

feryz je izjavil:

Pripravlja se nov masaker nedolžnih ljudi, cel svet pa filozofira.

Pac-Man ::

Truga je izjavil:

https://twitter.com/leonidragozin/statu...
rusi: vojne ne bo
ukrainci: vojne ne bo
slo-tech

feryz je izjavil:

Pripravlja se nov masaker nedolžnih ljudi, cel svet pa filozofira.


O ukrajinski poziciji:

https://twitter.com/Mortis_Banned/statu...
Oleksiy Danylov is the reassurer-in-chief in the administration, his job is to ensure there is no panic until shit actually does hit the fan, he has basically been repeating the theses of Ze's "Don't Look Up speech" for the past few months, none of you are his target audience.
Also, he is right, the thing is still weeks away by all accounts.
No airborne forces, personnel transfer has just started, some guys in the Far East still loading their trains, no sign of airborne or occupation (national guard/military police) component.
(Yes I put airborne there twice, which may serve as a glimpse in my current state of mind where I see an airborne fighting vehicle in every blurry tiktok of a regular infantry fighting vehicle)
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Truga ::

sounds unhinged

fikus_ ::

Če usa&Co ne bi pumpali UKR s svojo propagando in le tej propagandi ne bi nasedla UKR politika, bi še sedaj bil Krim v sklopu UKR.

S strani Rusov je bila edina logična poteza pripojitev Krima, ali pa bi Črnomorsko ladjevje morali prestavit drugam. Poleg tega je na Kriimu pretežno Rusko govoreče prebivalstvo z ruskimi koreninami, kar je pokazal tudi referendum, ki se ga opazovalci EU kljub povabilu Rusije niso hoteli udeležit. Tako da govorjenje, da je bil referendum ponarajan sprenevedanje.
Učite se iz preteklosti, živite v sedanjosti in razmišljajte o prihodnosti.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: fikus_ ()

Motion ::

Oče je poznal bivšega KGB jeva funkcijonarja ki je delal v kremlinu v osemdesetin in devedesetih preden je Putin prisel na oblast. Ko ga je pred nekaj leti vprašal (mal preden se je začela kriza v ukrajini) kaj si misli o Putinu mu je lepo povadal. Dokler bo Putin živ ne bo mira.

fikus_ ::

Kaj ste pro *** fani navalili?! Kaže da ste prekratki, da bi razumeli world real politiko! Najprej je potrebno bodočega spovražnika deskreditirat, stopnjevat (dez)informacije, da je splošno sprejemljiva "demokratizacija" z bombami in raketami.
To kar se npr. dogaja v Jemnu, je maslo SA, ki jih v tem podpira usa, na drugi strani Iran. Podobno se kuha v UKR (začetek jemenskega scenarija), koliko se pa piše o eni vojni in o drugih pripravah nanjo pa itak vidite, ali pa ne.
To pisanje ni za/proti eni ali drugi strani, ampak prikaz zaslepljenosti nekaterih, ki pišejo tukaj.
Učite se iz preteklosti, živite v sedanjosti in razmišljajte o prihodnosti.

Fritz ::

Motion je izjavil:

Oče je poznal bivšega KGB jeva funkcijonarja ki je delal v kremlinu v osemdesetin in devedesetih preden je Putin prisel na oblast. Ko ga je pred nekaj leti vprašal (mal preden se je začela kriza v ukrajini) kaj si misli o Putinu mu je lepo povadal. Dokler bo Putin živ ne bo mira.

V Kremlinu je delal, kje pa je to?
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein

sbawe64 ::

Ima to kaj povezave s sedanjo situacijo ?

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status...

Biden gave Ukraine a $1B loan after they fired the prosecutor general he didn't like

Biden's son was making $50,000 a month from a Ukrainian oligarch-owned energy group

And now Biden is pushing war in Ukraine

Video Bidena, ko govori o zgornjem
https://twitter.com/America1Scotty/stat...

https://twitter.com/mlissa1/status/1485...
2020 is new 1984
Corona World order

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: sbawe64 ()

windigo ::

Mi o vojni, Ukrajinci pa o davčnih blagajnah in davkih: 8-O
https://twitter.com/ignis_fatum/status/...

Fritz ::

windigo je izjavil:

Mi o vojni, Ukrajinci pa o davčnih blagajnah in davkih: 8-O
https://twitter.com/ignis_fatum/status/...

Ma ja, če bereš US in UK medije, samo Ukrajina in vojna bo, če pa pogledaš Ruske in medije drugih držav pa se največ ukvarjajo z epidemijo in dejanskimi problemi.

A kdo ve a ZDA in VB donirajo vojaško opremo Ukrajini ali jo prodajajo?
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein

Malidelničar ::

Ukrajina se mora vojaško oborožiti da invazijo odvrne, na dolgi rok pa mora razviti gospodarstvo, spodbuditi trgovinske tokove z EU-jem, tudi če se odpove NATU lahko preko članstva v EU-ju dobi dovolj dobro zaslombo. Rusija ekonomsko ne Krima ne Donbasa ne bo morala podpirati in na dolgi rok bo Ukrajina verjetno zelo popustila da ohrani ozemeljsko celovitost (za to sta se zavedali ZDA in Rusija leta 1994). Torej OZN peacekeeperji in opazovalci na Krim in v Donbas, avtonomija in manjšinjske pravice + pravice ruskega jezika na teh območjih, 100-letni lease mornariški bazi Rusiji na Krimu, Ukrajina pa ostane ozemeljsko nespremenjena. Rusija ve da mej ne more premikati, v nasprotnem primeru tudi sama lahko izgubi Čečenijo in Kavkaz.
Don't invest like a Joe. Invest like a Simon.

Zgodovina sprememb…

Zimonem ::

Očitno ti ni jasno kje Ukrajina je in kaj lahko ponudi.

sbawe64 ::

Fritz je izjavil:

windigo je izjavil:

Mi o vojni, Ukrajinci pa o davčnih blagajnah in davkih: 8-O
https://twitter.com/ignis_fatum/status/...

Ma ja, če bereš US in UK medije, samo Ukrajina in vojna bo, če pa pogledaš Ruske in medije drugih držav pa se največ ukvarjajo z epidemijo in dejanskimi problemi.

A kdo ve a ZDA in VB donirajo vojaško opremo Ukrajini ali jo prodajajo?

Koliko ljudi iz splošne populacije v ZDA/UK bere ruske medije ? Kot prvo so problem grabljice in znanje jezika (ok problem je delno rešljiv preko online prevajalnikov), potem je tu še faktor lenobe, kjer večina pogrne.
Ljudem se preprosto ne da pogledati čez planke, četudi samo online.
2020 is new 1984
Corona World order

Pac-Man ::

To, horrible take, odzivi so zanimivi

https://twitter.com/HeerJeet/status/148...


in to

https://twitter.com/VagrantJourno/statu...
All I'm asking is for a single Western left org* to go 'Oh shit you guys, 44 million people are at risk of becoming corpses to fuel a neo-tsarists imperial ambitions, solidarity with Ukraine, fuck Putin!"
That's not hard! Just be a goddamn socialist for five minutes!

* Democratic Socialists of America @ Wikipedia so blazno tiho

https://twitter.com/SpaghettiKozak/stat...
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

redtech ::

Tucker jim jih je natresel, politiki... podn od pameti :D



Bidnen ima 3 stvari pred sabo.

Inflacija = ni ponovne izvoljen
Crash trgov = ni ponovne izvoljen
Nova vojna = mogoče bo kot Bush ponovno izvoljen, podn.

Fritz ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:


https://twitter.com/VagrantJourno/statu...
All I'm asking is for a single Western left org* to go 'Oh shit you guys, 44 million people are at risk of becoming corpses to fuel a neo-tsarists imperial ambitions, solidarity with Ukraine, fuck Putin!"
That's not hard! Just be a goddamn socialist for five minutes!

* Democratic Socialists of America @ Wikipedia so blazno tiho

https://twitter.com/SpaghettiKozak/stat...

Morda zato, ker ne gre za caristični imperializem 8-)

Od 15:30 naprej (40 let star posnetek):
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: Fritz ()

redtech ::

Ali obstaja kakšen intervju s Putim na temo Ukrajine? Na YT so samo US lepljenke :)

Pac-Man ::

Darth Putin je spisal "how to tankie". Par točk:

https://twitter.com/DarthPutinKGB/statu...

  1. Countries in Russia's "near abroad" were created to exist as buffer states and have fewer sovereign rights than rich western countries.
    Their citizens are unable to protest for better government. This is always
    -NATO expansion
    -CIA plot
    -US imperialism
    -George Soros
...

  1. All Russia wants is "respect". It does not matter if this means treating our buffer states with disrespect. They have fewer rights.
    See point 2 for details
  2. It is a genuine mystery why so many of our former colonies want to join NATO. Russia is peaceful country surrounded by ceasefires.
  3. The Warsaw Pact was a mutual defense alliance that kept attacking itself. Who can explain why as soon as they could our colonies all left and told us to go home
  4. Because the US invaded Iraq, which was wrong, it means that anything Russia miliary does is by definition not also wrong. Western military intervention causes misery & terrorists. Russian military intervention causes joy & unicorns
  5. A secure international border has Russian troops one both sides of it.
...

  1. Our victory over imperialist West is inevitable. That is why my soldiers will soon fight and die for it
  2. The USA, Germany, Poland & Soros all want to overthrow Kremlin by having assassin squads try to kill high profile opponents with synthetic copies of secret Russian nerve agents so that when their plan succeeds anyone they want to replace me with will be dead
  3. We are too fucking dumb to catch them doing point 12 in Russia to dissidents we admit we keep under close surveillance.

...

  1. Threatening to defend yourself against Russia is aggressive so we must threaten to attack you in response.
  2. The West is weak, decadent, genderless and about to collapse. That's why we keep our money and children there.
    It is also an existential threat to Russia. See point 11.

...

  1. "What about USA (insert false equivalence)/Just like USA (false equivalence)"
    Cos USA did something wrong it means Russia can do the same wrong and not be wrong. It does not mean we are only as bad as USA
  2. In west you are free to shout "USA did evil". In Russia you are also free to shout "USA/west did evil". You are also free to shout Russia did evil but you will not be free afterwards.
  3. The West humiliated Russia in post cold war years by treating our former colonies as actual countries, not as buffer states with limited sovereignty (see point 2) who have to ask Russia for permission in their foreign affairs.
    This is not imperialist.
  4. "We just don't want a war between US & Russia, you neo con war shill!!" West should appease Russia & let it have Ukraine, this is realpolitik (we don't sound like Kissinger). There's no parallel we can learn from about appeasing a dictator, it always turns out just fine.
  5. Russia is only acting to Ukraine as USA did with Cuba. The fact that US behavior towards Cuba is imperialist was wrong but it means it’s ok for Russia to do the same and not be wrong or imperialist.
  6. What would USA do if Mexico or Canada joined a Russian/China led anti US alliance? The fact we can’t explain why this hasn’t happened or won’t happen is irrelevant and it’s russophobic to ask for one.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Pac-Man ::

redtech je izjavil:

Ali obstaja kakšen intervju s Putim na temo Ukrajine? Na YT so samo US lepljenke :)


Nima smisla, ker laže/zavaja.

Putin admits lies about Russian troops in Crimea: comparison of statements now and then.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Poldi112 ::

Za razliko od zahodnih politikov, katere puslušamo, ker govorijo resnico?

Če ne poslušaš obojih, si namenoma natikaš plašnice na oči. Če slepo verjameš katerikoli strani, si patriot (ovca).
Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
Walter Lippmann, leta 1922, o predpogoju za demokracijo.

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenil: Poldi112 ()

Fritz ::

Kaže, da Putin trola zahod in ti so sedaj hudo nezadovoljni z Zelenskim. Očitno noče dati ameriškim in britanskim oligarhom njihove vojne.

Biden says Latin America is US 'front yard', Trump says 'backyard' - Pick your flavor of neocolonialism
https://english.almayadeen.net/articles...

Še vedno sprašujem, če so dostave orožja Ukrajini donacija ali gre za prodajo/biznis. Ker pri Freedom Gas očitno tudi ni šlo za 'pomoč'.



Povrhu pa še tole:
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: Fritz ()

Truga ::

Fritz je izjavil:

A kdo ve a ZDA in VB donirajo vojaško opremo Ukrajini ali jo prodajajo?

"Donirajo"
to pomeni da ZDA vlada kupi rakete od raytheona, in jih poslje v ukrajino. cisto slucajno pa potem kup senatorjev/kongrescev pristane v visokih polozajih v MIC firmah. nic cudnega ni tu :D

gozdar1 ::

Fritz je izjavil:

Kaže, da Putin trola zahod in ti so sedaj hudo nezadovoljni z Zelenskim. Očitno noče dati ameriškim in britanskim oligarhom njihove vojne.

Biden says Latin America is US 'front yard', Trump says 'backyard' - Pick your flavor of neocolonialism
https://english.almayadeen.net/articles...

Še vedno sprašujem, če so dostave orožja Ukrajini donacija ali gre za prodajo/biznis. Ker pri Freedom Gas očitno tudi ni šlo za 'pomoč'.



Povrhu pa še tole:


V bistvu poizkuša putin samo profitirat iz ameriškega fokusa na kitajsko, torej tega kar si nadvse želite tj. zmanjševanja ameriške prisotnosti v evropi. Evropa pa sama od sebe ni bila sposobna rešit niti vojne v bih.

Invictus ::

V bistvu probavajo Američanio s sesutjem miru v Evropi povečati izvoz svojega LNG v Evropo. Prve ladje so že pripravljene, če Putin zapre plinsko pipico.

In to je Putin že zagrozil Evropi, če jo mislijo blokirati z ekonomskimi sankcijami in jo vreči ven iz SWIFTa...

Ukrajincev tako nihče ne mara, ne sosedje, ne drugi. Edini dober produkt Ukrajine so Ukrajinke...
"Life is hard; it's even harder when you're stupid."

http://goo.gl/2YuS2x

gozdar1 ::

To so ti verjetno povedali dobro obveščeni ruski viri.
Tam okrog imajo vsi težave predvsem z rusi.

Fritz ::

Invictus je izjavil:

V bistvu probavajo Američanio s sesutjem miru v Evropi povečati izvoz svojega LNG v Evropo. Prve ladje so že pripravljene, če Putin zapre plinsko pipico.

In to je Putin že zagrozil Evropi, če jo mislijo blokirati z ekonomskimi sankcijami in jo vreči ven iz SWIFTa...

Ukrajincev tako nihče ne mara, ne sosedje, ne drugi. Edini dober produkt Ukrajine so Ukrajinke...

Putin dejansko ni grozil ampak povedal resnico. Če Rusijo vržejo iz Swifta ji ne bodo mogli plačevati za plin, kako ga naj potem Rusi prodajajo?

Sicer pa bi izključitev Rusije iz Swifta bila le še en žebelj v krsti dolarja kot svetovne valute. Za EU pa neznanski strel v lastno koleno.
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein

Truga ::

Invictus je izjavil:

V bistvu probavajo Američanio s sesutjem miru v Evropi povečati izvoz svojega LNG v Evropo. Prve ladje so že pripravljene, če Putin zapre plinsko pipico.

lol, *celotna* ameriska in katarska LNG proizvodnja skupaj je 15% manjsa od tega kar evropa uvaza iz rusije, tko da ce putin zapre pipo zacnejo evropejci zmrzovat se pred koncem zime

Vetrolov ::

Invictus je izjavil:

Ukrajincev tako nihče ne mara, ne sosedje, ne drugi. Edini dober produkt Ukrajine so Ukrajinke...


Ja na splošno tak izkoriščevalski narod. Vse jim pripada. Dokler jih zahod financira bodo to izkoriščal na veliko, ko se zapre pipica bodo pa šli nazaj k rusom jokat. Upam da je putin tolk pameten, da jih nogira pa naj majo svojo burkino faso sredi evrope. Ukrajinke pa... hja, dokler ne dobi državljanstva si dober za financerja :D

Invictus ::

Vetrolov je izjavil:

Ukrajinke pa... hja, dokler ne dobi državljanstva si dober za financerja :D

Saj nobene ženske niso zastonj, Slovenke še manj. Če ne trpiš denarno, pa duševno :)).
"Life is hard; it's even harder when you're stupid."

http://goo.gl/2YuS2x

APPluk ::

https://www.flightradar24.com/FORTE12/2...
https://www.flightradar24.com/JAKE11/2a...
Pa kolikor spremljam je tudi v Italiji skoraj vedno kakšen ameriški F-16 v zraku.
Kaj v Aviano so bili tudi drugače vsakodnevni poleti ali smo zadnji dni malo bolj "treniranjo"?

Fritz ::

Sprašujem se, če je Bidnov namestnik svetovalca za nacionalno varnost kdaj slišal za Irak, Sirijo in Libijo, če naštejem tri najbolj sveže in očitne?

https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/...
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein

sbawe64 ::

Zda predsednik in njegov sin, ki sedi v Ukr odboru energetskega podjetja Burisma za 50k usd/mesečno
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news...
Le kaj ima podjetje od tega ?


https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics...
Joe Biden didn't do anything to help Hunter in Ukraine
Back in 2014 after a change of regime in Ukraine, Hunter Biden joined the board of a scandal-plagued Ukrainian natural gas company named Burisma. Hunter had no apparent qualifications for the job except that his father was the vice president and involved in the Obama administration's Ukraine policy.

He got paid up to $50,000 per month for the job and the situation constituted the kind of conflict of interest that was normally considered inappropriate in Washington until the Trump era.
...
2020 is new 1984
Corona World order

Zgodovina sprememb…

  • spremenilo: sbawe64 ()

Invictus ::

No tole iz ruske strani...

https://www.snafu-solomon.com/2022/01/r...

Ne najdem članka, ki ga je napisal novinar Guardiana, zakaj naj zahod pusti Ukrajino pri miru...
"Life is hard; it's even harder when you're stupid."

http://goo.gl/2YuS2x

Truga ::

https://twitter.com/cremnob/status/1486...
https://twitter.com/cremnob/status/1486...

tisina medijev glede kulturnega genocida v ukrajini je oglusujoca. predlagam da sankcioniramo in bojkotiramo vse izdelke iz kijeva

Pac-Man ::

Še ena nitka s terena.

https://twitter.com/NikaMelkozerova/sta...

Here are some basic facts that might help in Ukraine coverage. Thread:

  1. Russia's war against Ukraine. Not Ukraine conflict, or Ukraine crisis. Why? Because Russia occupied Crimea in 2014 and has been supporting its proxies in the Donbas-Russian passports holders.
  2. Russia claims it is not part of the conflict. Russia lies. Even the Russian court in Rostov recently accidentally revealed Russia's military presence in Donbas. Before that Russian soldiers were "guarding" illegal referendum in Crimea.
  3. Russian-controlled areas of Donbas, not Rebel-held or separatist-held areas. Because those people do not fight for independence, they want to become a part of Russia.
  4. Ukraine's Russian-speaking minority has pro-Russian views and wants to be with Russia. Also false. The Russian language doesn't make you Russian property. Russian-speaking Ukrainians fight against Russia as well as Ukrainian speakers. Diving us by language you play for Kremlin
  5. "Russia might invade any minute. Run for your life". Hello, guys! Russia invaded 8 years ago and has been leading hybrid warfare against Ukraine, which has already killed 14,000 people. So "Russia might renew active phase of war" would be more accurate.
  6. Ukraine suppresses the Russian language, culture, and Russians. Also false. For that just go to Kyiv or any other city or town and you will hear mostly Russian there. The only thing Ukraine did is it made Ukrainian a priority language for documents, media, and service. This was one of the toughest decisions made. But it was necessary due to the fact that our own language was suppressed in our own country for ages, dabbed as "silly, peasant" and so on.
  7. Ukraine suppresses freedom of speech. Here I would partially agree. However, in the times of war blocking some openly pro-Russian and disinformation TV channels is also unpopular, but I guess somehow necessary. It doesn't make us look beautiful, It is very hard to stay 100 percent democratic when Russia fuels millions into aggressive propaganda, that messes up the minds of a nation, already weakened emotionally by the ongoing war.
  8. Don't use Ukrainian journalists or experts for coverage as they are biased, they have agenda. It is better to ask Western English-speaking analysts, who would give you a balanced picture. Won't agree. Ideally, use your Western experts, but use Ukrainian ones too. By not using Ukrainian voices while telling stories about Ukraine you leave us out of our own narrative, and by that, you confirm our status of a less important country that has no voice and that is ok. That also plays for the Kremlin. Ukrainians deserve to tell their own story!

Last but not least. Ukraine also has propaganda, as every other country in the world. However, here it is not so well-funded as the Kremlin propaganda. So please ask local reporters, which outlets should be used as sources of info. I would not use 112TVUa, RT.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

NMH ::

Truga je izjavil:

https://twitter.com/cremnob/status/1486...
https://twitter.com/cremnob/status/1486...

tisina medijev glede kulturnega genocida v ukrajini je oglusujoca. predlagam da sankcioniramo in bojkotiramo vse izdelke iz kijeva


Ko bi ti vedel, kaj smo vse prebrali od "ubogih" Srbov v takratnih srbskih krajinah na Hrvaškem...

Fritz ::

NMH je izjavil:

Truga je izjavil:

https://twitter.com/cremnob/status/1486...
https://twitter.com/cremnob/status/1486...

tisina medijev glede kulturnega genocida v ukrajini je oglusujoca. predlagam da sankcioniramo in bojkotiramo vse izdelke iz kijeva


Ko bi ti vedel, kaj smo vse prebrali od "ubogih" Srbov v takratnih srbskih krajinah na Hrvaškem...

Neprimerljivo. Poleg tega Rusi v Ukrajini niso izvajali etničnega čiščenja in ostalih svinjarij, ki so bile modus operandi srbskih vojaških in paravojaških formacij in ki so v primeru BiH celo dokumentirane v obliki političnih odločitev vodstva t.i. Republike Srbske.
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein

Invictus ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:

Še ena nitka s terena.

https://twitter.com/NikaMelkozerova/sta...

Pač kontra propaganda. Isto sranje, drugo pakovanje.

Zdaj so državne meje postale svete. Glej Katalonce. Njim bi pustili odcepitev (razen Španci in del zahodne Evrope), Rusom pač ne... Če bi državne meje bile tako svete, bi bili še vedno v Jugoslaviji. Pač dvojni standardi...

Ukrajinci so rusko naklonjenega predsednika odstavili, nič narobe s tem, sam pol so pa se povezali z Zahodom in Američani, ki pa hočejo srati Rusom na meji. Nova vlada si je dobila nove sponzorje... Dajte si že vbiti v glavo, da Rusija ne bo hotela imeti NATO partnerja na svoji mejo, ampak hoče imeti vmes tampon cono. Če si NATO partner, to avtomatsko pomeni vojaško prisotnost v državi...
"Life is hard; it's even harder when you're stupid."

http://goo.gl/2YuS2x

fikus_ ::

"Rusija ima NATO že na svoji meji."

Res je. Ampak kot kaže več NATO-a pa nočejo na svoji meji.
Učite se iz preteklosti, živite v sedanjosti in razmišljajte o prihodnosti.

Motion ::

Invictus je izjavil:

Pac-Man je izjavil:

Še ena nitka s terena.

https://twitter.com/NikaMelkozerova/sta...

Pač kontra propaganda. Isto sranje, drugo pakovanje.

Zdaj so državne meje postale svete. Glej Katalonce. Njim bi pustili odcepitev (razen Španci in del zahodne Evrope), Rusom pač ne... Če bi državne meje bile tako svete, bi bili še vedno v Jugoslaviji. Pač dvojni standardi...

Ukrajinci so rusko naklonjenega predsednika odstavili, nič narobe s tem, sam pol so pa se povezali z Zahodom in Američani, ki pa hočejo srati Rusom na meji. Nova vlada si je dobila nove sponzorje... Dajte si že vbiti v glavo, da Rusija ne bo hotela imeti NATO partnerja na svoji mejo, ampak hoče imeti vmes tampon cono. Če si NATO partner, to avtomatsko pomeni vojaško prisotnost v državi...


Ja sam ni to odločitev Rusije.
In še NATOve sile na ruski meji so že obrambno ubožane, kaj šele da bi lahko imele kak ofenzivni potencial. Rusija ima jederski arzenal, več operativne težke mehanizacije in letalstva kot ga ma NATO v evropi. Tako da kao NATO ogroža rusijo s prisotnostnjo na meji me nebo nobeden prepričal. Edini problem ki ga vidim ni problem vojske na ruski meji, ampak širjenje vpliva zahodnega načina življenja, ker pač ni glih kompatibilno z njihivim načinom vladanje. (Isti problem kot v belorusiji) Isti vpliv kot ga je imela avstrija in italija na slovenjijo. Počasi folku dopizdi da tisti čez mejo živijo bolje in imajo več svobode (kakršna koli že ta je).

Zimonem ::

Glede na Natov odgovor Rusiji in čvekanju o odprtosti in dobrodošlosti. Bi bilo najbolje da se Rusija pridruži Natu.

https://www.rtvslo.si/svet/s-in-j-ameri...

Pac-Man ::

Truga je izjavil:

tisina medijev glede kulturnega genocida v ukrajini je oglusujoca. predlagam da sankcioniramo in bojkotiramo vse izdelke iz kijeva

Koliko so se ti mediji razpisali, ko je rusko vrhovno sodišče l. 2010 prepovedalo delovanje največje ukrajinske manjšinske organizacije v Rusiji? In takrat niso bili v nobeni vojni.



Januar 2011:

https://web.archive.org/web/20110914153...
...

The Russian Federation is the largest neighboring country of Ukraine. According to the national population census in Russia of 2002, more than 3 million ethnic Ukrainians live within the country. Ukrainians in Russia are one of 90 officially registered communities in 16 regions of the country.

...

Opportunities for educating children in Ukrainian language are very limited. There are approximately ten Ukrainian Sunday schools and a dozen of schools with Ukrainian as an optional study language in all regions of Russia. All petitions to the official authorities for establishing Ukrainian-language schools in the regions of compact residence of the Ukrainian community remain unsatisfied.
Ukrainian communities do not receive state support for their functioning – there are no Ukrainian-language newspapers and radio or TV broadcasting in the Russian Federation.

...

  • In November 2010, the High Court of Russia cancelled registration of one of the biggest civic communities of the Ukrainian minority, the “Federal nation-cultural autonomy of the Ukrainians in Russia” (FNCAUR). The reason for such court ruling was the conclusion of the Justice of Ministry of Russia to the effect: “…the activity of the FNCAUR is aimed at discrediting the political course of the Russian government on interracial unity, and such activity threatens the constitutional regime…”.
  • On January 3, 2011, Russian Foreign Minister Segey Lavrov officially stated that “FNCAUR’s activity was targeted at damaging bilateral Russian-Ukrainian relations”.
  • In December 2010, we witnessed a new round of repressions against the Ukrainian library in Moscow (the only official Ukrainian literature library in Russia). The Russian Prosecutor’s Office launched a criminal investigation based on charges of distribution of the printed materials with xenophobia content at the library. During the past three months, the Extremism Department of the Interior Ministry of Russia conducted three searches at the library, seized books and computer hardware, as well as inflicted wounds to the Director of the library Nataliya Shariniy. At present the library is closed for the undetermined time-frame.
  • Russian media continues to report that the Russian Ministry of Justice petitioned the High Court of Russia for liquidating the other Russian-wide civic Ukrainian community organization: “Unity of the Ukrainians in Russia”, which comprised 41 regional associations such as “Batkivshina”, “Blakytna Desna”, “Prolisok”, “Mriya”, Ukrainian regional center “Dnipro”, “Yasen – Ural Ukrainian national culture center”, “Ukraina-Seim” partnership, Association of Ukrainians from Povolzhie, “Kyiv Rus”, Ukrainian culture centers “Promin”, “Svitanok”, and “Krynytsia”.

The abovementioned cases followed the previous year’s actions by the Russian authorities, such as:

  • In April 2008, the Moscow city authorities shut down the Ukrainian educational center that allegedly did not have the necessary licensing documentation. The Ukrainian educational center in Moscow had worked for more than 10 years under School #124 license, and its members were employed in accordance to the law of the Russian Federation. After the shut-down of the center its employees were questioned by the Federal Security Service (FSB).
  • On May 10, 2009, Russian authorities [declared] Yuriy Kononenko persona non grata*, who was the first deputy director of the Unity of the Ukrainians in Russia, an activist of the Ukrainian cultural-educational movement in Russia, founder of the Ukrainian literature library in Moscow.
  • In 2008-2010, a series of administrative measures were imposed on the Ukrainian cultural movements in Saint-Petersburg, Surgut, Voronezh, and Ufa.


*gtranslate:
https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0...
Kononenko Yuri Grigorovich ( July 14, 1958 , Kharkiv ) - activist of the Ukrainian diaspora in Russia in 1988-2008, first deputy chairman of the Association of Ukrainians of Russia (2005-2008). By profession - teacher of history, social sciences and law; ethnologist , ethnosociologist .

...

From 1989 to 2008 - Chairman of the Library Council of the Library of Ukrainian Literature in Moscow, in 1992-1993 - Secretary, in 2002-2008 - Deputy, First Deputy Chairman of the Association of Ukrainians of Russia, from 2002 to 2008 - Chairman of the Society of Fans of Ukrainian Books . He was the head of the Joint Press Service of the Federal National-Cultural Autonomy of Ukrainians of Russia, the Association of Ukrainians of Russia and the Library of Ukrainian Literature in Moscow (1998-2008).

In 2008, after the actual destruction of the Library of Ukrainian Literature in Moscow, he returned to Ukraine. Lives in Kiev. In 2008-2013 he held various positions in the Ministry of Education and Science of Ukraine (he dealt with language policy and education of national minorities), in 2013-2014 - Assistant Consultant to the People's Deputy of Ukraine Lilia Hrynevych . Since March 2014 - Director of the Department of General Secondary and Preschool Education of the Ministry of Education and Science of Ukraine [1] .

Member of the Intergovernmental Bilateral Ukrainian-Slovak Commission for National Minorities, Education and Culture (since 2009), the Joint Ukrainian-Hungarian Commission for Ensuring the Rights of National Minorities (since 2011), the Joint Ukrainian-Romanian Commission for Ensuring the Rights of Persons belong to national minorities (since 2016), the Subcommittee on Cooperation in the Field of Cultural and Linguistic Needs of National Minorities of the Subcommittee on Humanitarian Cooperation of the Russian-Ukrainian Interstate Cooperation (2009-2013).




To ni kulturni genocid, kje so (bile) naslovnice?
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or
the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and
fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Fritz ::

Pac-Man je izjavil:


Koliko so se ti mediji razpisali, ko je rusko vrhovno sodišče l. 2010 prepovedalo delovanje največje ukrajinske manjšinske organizacije v Rusiji? In takrat niso bili v nobeni vojni.

In November 2010, the High Court of Russia cancelled registration of one of the biggest civic communities of the Ukrainian minority;

To ni kulturni genocid, kje so (bile) naslovnice?

Po tvojem lastnem zapisu ne gre za največjo ali edino takšno organizacijo ukrajinske manjšine. Torej?
"Težav ne moremo reševati z isto miselnostjo,
kot smo jo imeli, ko smo jih ustvarili."
A. Einstein
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