Ukrajina Part II

Ameriško orožje so našli na letališču v Donecku, še zapakirane.

"prostovoljci"

http://khpg.org/index.php?id=1436617897

Several dozen Russian contract soldiers could face up to 10 year prison sentences for having left a military unit in the Rostov oblast, fearing that they would be sent to fight in Ukraine. Soldiers allege that were offered up to 8 thousand roubles a day for ‘volunteering’ to go to Ukraine, and effectively held there until they agreed.

Gazeta.ru has spoken with soldiers facing trial for going absent without leave or deserting, their mothers, as well as a lawyer representing 5 men. On a video which the newspaper was shown, a military official rubbishes all claims that men are being sent to Ukraine. The journalists’ attempts to speak directly to the man on the video or representatives of the Russian Defence Ministry were all unsuccessful.

...

62 soldiers have been convicted of going absent without leave since the beginning of 2015, against 35 for the entire period from 2010 through 2014.

...

Chernetskaya reports that the circumstances were the same for all of the several dozen soldiers facing charges of desertion or going AWOL. They all left the Rostov unit between the end of September, 2014 and the middle of November. They complained both of the inhuman conditions and of the pressure on them to serve as ‘volunteers’ in the so-called ‘Donetsk and Luhansk people’s republics’.

...

The men recount how they were pestered by recruiters in camouflage gear without insignia who tried to get them to fight in Donbas for money, with 8 thousand per day offered. All agree that these recruiters were not from their unit, so were clearly there with permission from the military command.

None of them was enticed by the 8 thousand per day offered, Chernetskaya explains, and they made their way back to their unit in Maikop. There they tried to hand in formal resignations but these were not even considered, and they are now facing serious charges.

8000 rubljev je 130 eur. Na dan. Bi rekel, da nekdo laže.

ah.. se bo kiev kar sam sebe potopil ..:) fašisti so tak daleč prišli, da se boto ostalimi fašisti kar sredi Kijeva začeli pobijat. to bo še veselje:) krivi pa bodo rusi iz vladivostoka.

Nima neposredne povezave s konfliktom, ampak dobro pokaže kako visoko cenjeni so ruski vojaki v materi Rusiji.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33...

23 mrtvih, 5 pogrešanih, 19 ranjenih, ker se je leto dni stara zgraba samoiniciativno zrušila na njih.

Kako, če jih pa vidim v Rusiji en kup?

'Act of terror': Far right fighters clash with police in western Ukraine (VIDEO)

Though it took quite a while, it seems that the alleged Ukrainian neo-Nazis in Pravy Sektor have finally turned on the Jew coup government which funded and nurtured them.

https://twitter.com/IvanRodionov_/statu...

Higgins vs. glavni urednik RT Deutsch. Obvezno branje. :)

http://mashable.com/2015/07/15/mh17-mis...

On the afternoon of July 17, 2014, Pyotr Fedotav and his mother, were working in their garden in the tiny hamlet of Chervonyi Zhovten, a few miles south of Snizhne, in eastern Ukraine.

Suddenly, they heard a powerful blast and the earth shook beneath their feet, making them both fall over.

"It was such a huge explosion," the 58-year-old said recently. "It felt like the end of the world!"

The blast was the sound of a missile launcher, firing its weapon into the sky, he said.

"It was a big missile and it wobbled as it flew right over our house in the direction of Torez," he added, pointing in a northwesterly direction.

He said he watched as the missile struck a plane and fiery debris fell to the ground.

...

Fedotav said he knows who did it.

"The militia were everywhere here, they controlled this area, and they were in that field," he said, with reference to the pro-Russian rebels.

Which field, I asked, for clarification.

"On the road between the village [Chervonyi Zhovten] and the main road," he said. "If you turn from the main road, it's 150 meters."

Fedotav gave a similar account to Reuters in March. The news agency also spoke with other local residents who corroborated Fedotav's story.

Later, a reporter from Russian state-sponsored channel RT returned to the village to interview Fedotav. At that point, though, he told RT that Reuters had lied about him saying off camera that he'd seen the missile launch.

A few months later, however, he repeated to me, and the French photographer and Ukrainian journalist who were with me, what he'd told Reuters initially — that he saw the missile fly overhead, moments after it was launched, and that the came from a position held by the Russian-backed rebels.

Why, I asked, did he tell RT that Reuters had lied?

Fear, he said. He was afraid that what he'd said could endanger him and his family, he explained. To be clear, I asked him again: How do you know the rocket was launched in this field, and that the militia shot down the plane?

"I was here and it was impossible to not see and hear it," Fedotav said.

Fedotav doesn't hide the fact that he supports the pro-Russian rebels but that only strengthens the believability of his account, which places the blame for the tragedy squarely on them.

...

Nearly a year before I meet Fedotav, I drove out to Pervomaiskyi with a journalist from The Telegraph on July 22, 2014. I had stumbled across a blog post that used geolocation to narrow down the area where the missile's vapor trail had been spotted. The area put the launch site south of Snizhne — a theory supported by U.S. intelligence.

...

We met a farmer named Vasily who pointed us to an unusual oval-shaped scorch mark in his field — the same field Fedotav described to me almost a year later.

"The field down the way burnt the other day. I don't know why. You might have a look there," Vasily said, gesturing to the area, which is tucked behind a tree line to the north and east, obscuring it from view from Snizhne and the adjacent roadway. He could not recall whether he noticed the burn mark on July 17 or July 18 of last year.

...

Near the burned area were varying track marks, discarded water and beer bottles, cigarette packs with labels in Russian as well as melted fragments of plastic with a particular logo.

Military experts I spoke with were unable to identify the tracks. But the open-source investigative team Bellingcat believe the logo is that of Stelko Plastik, a Ukrainian plastics manufacturer that produce weapon containers.

In late June, 2014, three weeks before MH17 was downed, the company reported that Russian-backed rebels had raided its offices, taking with them more than half a million hryvnia (about $25,000) worth of equipment. Some could have ended up in this field.

Sources say

Mhm. Počakajmo še malo, da vidimo, če se bo našel kak konkreten vir, ne?

Sicer pa mi je čudno, da navajajo letalsko družbo kot sokrivo, ker je izbrala to pot. Kolikor vem, letala usmerja letalska kontrola - in imamo dovolj dokazov, da so tistega usodnega dne usmerjali letalo nad rizično območje ter mu celo znižali višino leta.

No, bomo videli, kaj poreče končno poročilo, ki ga je pomagala napisati Ukrajina.

SimplyMiha je 15. jul 2015 ob 18:58 izjavil:

Počakajmo še malo, da vidimo, če se bo našel kak konkreten vir, ne?

Par sto strani dolgo poročilo, ki so ga viri videli, pride ven oktobra. Ampak vem, da ga ne boš prebral.

SimplyMiha je 15. jul 2015 ob 18:58 izjavil:

Sicer pa mi je čudno, da navajajo letalsko družbo kot sokrivo, ker je izbrala to pot.

Z linkanega članka:

Some airlines were avoiding the conflict zone. According to the report Malaysia Airlines was not reading other countries' notice to airmen or NOTAMs and it continued to fly over the zone. Notice to airmen or NOTAMs are written notifications issued to pilots before a flight, advising them of circumstances relating to the state of flying, and those notifications can include warnings of potential dangers like conflict zones.

U.S. Airline Carriers for example make decisions about where to fly and where not to fly based on notice to airmen (NOTAMs) that different countries issue to their pilots. If for example, based on intelligence, Britain warned its pilots to avoid flying over a certain country U.S. Carriers would read and consider those warnings and decide if they too will avoid the area.

The Dutch Safety Board is investigating the crash of flight MH17 but it is also investigating the decision-making process pertaining to safety when determining flight routes.

Dutch investigators say in their report that because Malaysia airlines didn't review other countries' warnings it was unaware of conflict zones other airlines were avoiding. Sources who have seen the report say the Dutch Safety Board suggests Malaysia Airlines didn't have a robust system like other carriers.

Da ne? Čudno. Tiste dni se je na veliko pisalo, kako je kontrola letalu naložila nižjo višino.

Rusija v protinapadu, izdali bodo svoje poročilo o MH17.

http://tass.ru/en/world/808930

The Russian Investigation Committee is inclined to believe that an air-to air missile, which was not made in Russia, shot down a Malaysian Boeing (MH17 flight) over Ukraine a year ago.

"As for the priority version, we have information, which among other things is based on expertise, that the plane was hit by an air-to-air missile. Moreover, the experts assume that the type of missile has been established. The missile is not Russian-made," Vladimir Markin, the Russian Investigation Committee spokesman, told TASS on Wednesday.

Po navedbah Komsomolske pravde gre za izraelsko raketo na ukrajinskem Su-25. Na vsak način so morali v zgodbo vtaknit Jude, vedo kdo bere RT in podobne alter vire in nato trobi po spletu. :) Komedija.

Navigacijsko vsak sam naredi načrt leta in ga predloži kontroli leta in ta načrt se, če ni posebnih zunanjih vplivov ali pogojev (vreme, gostota prometa, poseben status), načeloma ne spreminja.

Bi rekel, da je državljanska vojna dovolj resen pogoj, da zaprejo nebo. Sploh ko je v nekaj dneh sklatenih kar nekaj vojaških letal.

SimplyMiha je 16. jul 2015 ob 07:23 izjavil:

Navigacijsko vsak sam naredi načrt leta in ga predloži kontroli leta in ta načrt se, če ni posebnih zunanjih vplivov ali pogojev (vreme, gostota prometa, poseben status), načeloma ne spreminja.

Bi rekel, da je državljanska vojna dovolj resen pogoj, da zaprejo nebo. Sploh ko je v nekaj dneh sklatenih kar nekaj vojaških letal.

V Ukrajini ni državljanske vojne.

Je le ruska okupacija suverene države.

1) Zanikali so, da so ruski vojaki prisotni na Krimu. Izkazalo se je, da so lagali. Kasneje priznal celo Putler.
2) Priključili so si Krim, ki je del Ukrajine.
3) Sklatili potniško letalo. Buk sistem je prišel iz Rusije. Obstaja ogromno video posnetkov, slik in ostalih dokazov.
4) Okupirali vzhodni del Ukrajine. Plačanci, dopustniki(redna ruska vojska), ruski generali, rusko orožje, ki ga Ukrajina nikoli ni imela. Da ne govorim o vseh videjih, slikah, gps lokacij, drone posnetkov, zajetih ruskih vojakov itd. o prisotnosti ruske vojske.
5) Kljub mirovnemu sporazumu, ruska vojska("ki je seveda ni v Ukrajini") nenehno napada položaje ukrajinske vojske. Vsak dan je mrtvih nekaj U. vojakov in to ne od ptičjih iztrebkov, ki padajo iz neba. Rusi naj bi se umaknili iz Ukrajine glede na sporazum do konca leta a delajo prav nasprotno in kopičijo čedalje več ljudi, orožja na frontni liniji. V naslednjih dneh, tednih je pričakovati veliko rusko ofenzivo.

Vse zgornje točke so navadnemu osebku tega planeta, ki ni podvržen ruski propagandi jasne že od začetka te krize.

windigo je 16. jul 2015 ob 12:52 izjavil:

Če tele že dolgo napovedovane in že parkrat napovedane ofenzive do sredine jeseni ne bo, a te lahko jest prvi ustrelim v nogo? (da se ne boš rabil sam, jasno, ker je to menda precej zoprno)

Ofenziva se odvija že približno dva meseca, samo je manj intenzivna kot je bilo pričakovati. Verjetno zato, ker so njihovi agenti v Desnem Sektorju končno uspeli doseči krvav incident.

RedDrake je 16. jul 2015 ob 13:38 izjavil:

Ofenziva ni smiselna, z nobene strani, saj bi šlo za preveč očitno kršitev dogovorov. Sankcije bi hitro sledile, tako eni ali drugi strani, sem kar prepričan. Jasno, konflikt se nadaljuje, sile novorusije se počasi organizirajo v neko pravo vojsko, ki počasi ne bo več zaostajala za rusko redno armado, kar jasno onemogoča kakršnokoli ofenzivo s strani UA sil, ki so večinoma slabo opremljeni, a dobro motivirani prostovoljci.
Dodatno se obema stranema dogajajo interni konflikti - Pravi sektor (to je namreč bolj pravi prevod) se je jasno spuntal, ker gredo stvari počasi proti deeskalaciji in urejanju države. Prav tako se v LNR/DNR dogajajo čistke med seperatisti, kjer očitno počasi odstranjujejo vse tiste loose cannon modele, ker to za dolgoročno prihodnost kakršnekoli državne/nacionalne tvorbe ni ravno dobro.

Trenutno stanje odgovarja obema stranema. Medsebojno se obtožujejo o tem kdo je streljal prvi, hkrati pa držijo število padlih nizko, da se ljudje ne spuntajo, ampak raje podpirajo status quo. Zakaj bi torej spreminjali tisto kar deluje (govorim iz vidika "oblasti" novorusije in UA).

Ne vem ali bi lahko rekli, da gredo stvari proti deeskalaciji, streljajo se kar konkretno po celi fronti. Vsak dan je uradno vsaj nekaj mrtvih, neuradno brez težav še nekaj več. Ruska vojska postavlja baze v Donbasu, 'uporniki' pa imajo tudi vedno boljše orožje.

Ne, po mojem skromnem mnenju Putler čaka, da Ukrajina gospodarsko in družbe klecne in sprejme njegovo 'modro' nadoblast. Nastavil bi novega diktatorja, ki bo v zameno za oblast dal Donbasu veto pravico na vse zunanjepolitične odločitve in s tem Ukrajino prikrajšal za prihodnost.

windigo je 16. jul 2015 ob 14:43 izjavil:

Zgleda, da sem kar se tiče moderne vojaške teorije ostal precej zadaj, ofenziva je v mojem slovarju napad s strateškimi cilji (za razliko od taktičnega napada, ali pretveznega napada). Pa me zdaj zanima, kakšna je moderna definicija ofenzive, ki vključuje trenutno dogajanje v ukrajini od vzpostavitve premirja? Ali obstaja tudi ofenziva za ohranitev statusa quo?

Točno taka, kot si jo napisal. Samo da so strateški cilji lahko tudi kaj drugega kot to, da se zavzame xyz ozemlja - v tem primeru je cilj uničenje ukrajinske demokracije.

Če te prav razumem Smrekar1, se zdaj Putler pod pretvezo donbapških upornikov v Ukrajini bojuje proti lastnim agentom v Pravem Sektorju, ki sestavlja precejšen del bojnih enot na ukrajinski strani, skratka bilo kuda, Putler svuda, al kako?

Razumeš narobe. KGB, pardon, FSB, je infilitriral Desni Sektor in člane prepričal v to, da stopijo proti vladi. S tem potegnejo kakih 10 000 branilcev stran od svojih jurišnikov in Ukrajini odprejo novo fronto.

Masovna ofenziva na celi fronti je v taki situaciji seveda kapitalna neumnost, saj bi člani Densega Sektorja pogoltnili prave in navzidezne krivice in šli branit rodno grudo pred tujim osvajalcem. Stopnjevanje pritiska z rednim obstreljevanjem pa Ukrajini vseeno da krvavečo rano, ki je zaradi druge fronte ne morejo hitro zapreti. Če bo prišlo do velike ofenzive bo to šele po tem ko se situacija z Desnim Sektorjem razreši, tako ali drugače.

Se mi pa zdi zanimivo, da ruski propagandni mediji niso obrazložili kako da ukrajinski neofašisti nasprotujejo kao fašističnim oblastem v Ukrajini.

Verjetno ruski poizkus diverzije pozornosti, zaradi nizozemskega poročila danes.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/15/polit...

Ne vem zakaj se sploh trudijo - verjetno zaradi domače javnosti ali nekaj.

https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/statu...

DNR head Alexander Zakharchenko has canceled his press briefing for the third day in a row, and the rumors continue to swirl in #Donetsk.

Matako je 16. jul 2015 ob 16:55 izjavil:

Verjetno ruski poizkus diverzije pozornosti, zaradi nizozemskega poročila danes.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/15/polit...

Ne vem zakaj se sploh trudijo - verjetno zaradi domače javnosti ali nekaj.

Morda, čeprav so menda s širitvijo okupiranega območja tudi pridobili nekaj sto metrov ključne plinske cevi. Na ta način bi lahko sabotirali izvoz Azerbajdžanskega plina v Evropo, kar bo glede na dogovor z Iranom in pričakovanih gibanj cen nafte v naslednjih mesecih za Putlerja lahko življenjskega pomena.

Ruski pravljičarji so trdo na delu, da ustvarijo lažni videz nejanosti pri množičnem umoru, ki so ga zagrešile njihove enote v Ukrajini.

http://www.rt.com/news/310057-malaysian...

Trdijo, da je raketa prišla iz mesta Zaroshchensk?? in ne Snezhnoe, ker bi drugega njihovi radarji zanesljivo zaznali, prvega pa nikakor ne. Minuta iskanaj na Google maps pokaže, da je med lokacijama morda 10 km zračne črte in da je lokacija, ki naj bi bila takrat osvobojeno ozemlje od fašističnih radarjev v Rostovu na Donu oddaljena približno enako kot Snezhnoe, morda je celo bližje.

Ko bi si njihovi pravljičarji vsaj lahko izmislili kakšno verjetno zgodbo.

Smrekar1 je 16. jul 2015 ob 07:57 izjavil:

Ker rusi vztrajajo na Su-25 ostaneta samo dve možnosti.

Ne vsi. Nekaterim je jasno, da to ni možno. Recimo tistim, ki so sodelovali na projektu su-25. Ampak je pa res, da gre za "strato" različico ;)

Očitno je spet odvisno ali si putinist ali ne. Vpliva na percepcijo realnosti.

Glede na to kako je raketa zrak-zrak majhna proti BUK raketi verjetno ne more premagati niti polovico poti od najvišje možne višine letala SU-25 pa do FL330.

Ampak zakaj bi tako težko mogoče scenarije sploh vsiljevali?
Dobro, da bi vstrajali in iskali dokaze, da je sistem BUK bil ukrajinski in na ozemlji, ki ni pod separatisti bi bilo verjetno ne pa tele zgodbice o letalih, ki so počasnejša od B777, letijo za 1/3 nižje (ko niso polno oborožena)...

Kolekcija ruskih tvitov o sestrelitvah pred 17. julijem.

https://storify.com/ystriya/planes

Kakšen zna izginit, ko avtor ugotovi, da je postal znan.